shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:58 pm View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 134 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:21 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 947
Location: US, MI
xga wrote:
superg wrote:
PAL MD1 also works the same as MD2, I don't see the issue on my PVM. It could be that those A series and D series have different problems.
I will check Dreamcast tomorrow. I hope at least all Sega's in question share the same problem, I'm not gonna be able to fix all kind of sync issues with the switch.


You'll probably only get the skew issue on your BVM-D9 with the Sega Master System and AES consoles. It's the A series of BVM's with the RGB input board that have these issues as well as some PAL consoles not able to sync at all.

Yeah, the skew issue was my primary objective. So it's really different issues then.
_________________
Україна


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:54 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 190
superg wrote:
Yeah, the skew issue was my primary objective. So it's really different issues then.


Correct. Two separate issues with "A" series BVM monitors using the BKM-68X RGB input board.

i) Skew issue on certain consoles regardless of PAL / NTSC (e.g. SMS, AES) - (I believe this issue exists on BVM-D9's and BVM-D14's as well, which I think you were able to replicate and fix with firmware on the new gscart)

ii) No sync at all with certain PAL consoles (e.g. Mega Drive, N64) - (Only with "A" series BVM's and BKM-68X RGB board)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:04 am 


User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2017
Posts: 7
just wanted to confirm I have a bvm-a20f1m with 68x card and it won't sync with my jp neo geo AES, nor will it sync with my jp genesis when playing master system games. in these cases the picture looks almost correct except for the top part of the image which is warped.

https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8288/2902 ... c02324.jpg

all of my other consoles (snes, nes, gamecube, dreamcast, etc, all japanese) work just fine.

very appreciative of superg's work, it's a great monitor and I'd love to be able to play all my consoles on it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:38 am 



Joined: 31 Dec 2018
Posts: 1
You can handle the sync bending with consoles like Dreamcast/AES with any Extron that has SERR (serration). It's an issue with many of the modern pro monitors.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:43 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 430
superg wrote:
I can't reproduce the issue on my BVM-D9H5U using PAL Mega Drive 2, behaves the same as Genesis 2, native mode is fine, SMS mode isn't.
Will try my PAL MD1 next.

Same here, I was never able to reproduce the issue with a French PAL, or UK PAL Genesis. SMS, PCE, Neo Geo and 480p Dreamcast all had problems for me. Some weird stuff too, like Midway (Mortal Kombat) arcade boards.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:02 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 947
Location: US, MI
retrorgb wrote:
superg wrote:
I can't reproduce the issue on my BVM-D9H5U using PAL Mega Drive 2, behaves the same as Genesis 2, native mode is fine, SMS mode isn't.
Will try my PAL MD1 next.

Same here, I was never able to reproduce the issue with a French PAL, or UK PAL Genesis. SMS, PCE, Neo Geo and 480p Dreamcast all had problems for me. Some weird stuff too, like Midway (Mortal Kombat) arcade boards.

PAL MD1 is also fine in native mode.
When you say Dreamcast 480p it's HVSYNC so an external sync combiner have to be used, right? I mean it could be that sync combiner doesn't do it up to spec, but there are several solutions so it would be hard to localize the issue and also I doubt it's the same problem as on SMS.
Yeah, Mortal Kombat arcade output sync is so bad that it's a pure coincidence that it works on some devices (at least the specific thing I've seen on your RGB-PI device when launching Mortal Kombat).
_________________
Україна


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:27 am 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 190
retrorgb wrote:
I was never able to reproduce the issue with a French PAL, or UK PAL Genesis.


retrorgb, this is very interesting. Can you recall if the French PAL and UK PAL Mega Drives you tested were Model 1's or something else? I wonder what is different with these PAL Mega Drives that you were able to get to sync with the A20F1 monitor? I've tried both Model 1 and Model 2 PAL Mega Drives with my A20F1 monitor and both are unable to sync at all, so perhaps there is a difference with one (or some) of the PAL VA revisions that allows them to sync correctly?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:39 am 



Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 20
So I just want to confirm that new GScartSW will also fix this (https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... =undefined) Dreamcast issue with Sony BVM D24E1WU and there's no need for Extron device in chain anymore?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 947
Location: US, MI
Decoryah wrote:
So I just want to confirm that new GScartSW will also fix this (https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... =undefined) Dreamcast issue with Sony BVM D24E1WU and there's no need for Extron device in chain anymore?

Right now what I fixed is SMS sync problem. I'm not sure whether it's related to the Dreamcast issue.
_________________
Україна


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:06 pm 



Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 20
What I understand and what is my experience with Sony BVM-D24 monitor is that with SMS, PCE, Neo Geo MVS/AES and Dreamcast in 240p/480i you get the curved image on top of the screen. With D-series monitor you can solve this by VCR mode option in service menu but A-series apparently doesn't have that. VCR mode option in the other hand isn't available in 480p so you need an Extron RGB interface and SERR switch enabled in your chain to fix that curved image there. I just wondered if this new development with GScartSW switch would also solve the case where Dreamcast is in 480p mode? I'm sure all the other 240p/480i cases with different consoles will get fixed at the same time if SuperG has solved image curving with SMS console.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:23 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 947
Location: US, MI
Decoryah wrote:
What I understand and what is my experience with Sony BVM-D24 monitor is that with SMS, PCE, Neo Geo MVS/AES and Dreamcast in 240p/480i you get the curved image on top of the screen. With D-series monitor you can solve this by VCR mode option in service menu but A-series apparently doesn't have that. VCR mode option in the other hand isn't available in 480p so you need an Extron RGB interface and SERR switch enabled in your chain to fix that curved image there. I just wondered if this new development with GScartSW switch would also solve the case where Dreamcast is in 480p mode? I'm sure all the other 240p/480i cases with different consoles will get fixed at the same time if SuperG has solved image curving with SMS console.

I just meant not to get your hopes high :)
Visually SMS issue, at least on my BVM-D9, is flickering in the top portion of the screen where top is bent, it takes 1/4 of the screen and it's really terrible. I am 90% sure that static Dreamcast image curving is a consequence of incorrect HV sync combining which is done by external device, not the Dreamcast. Am I missing something here?
_________________
Україна


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:37 pm 



Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 20
Yes I think you might be right. With Dreamcast in 480p through Toro curving looks like this: https://i.redd.it/zexhsxwh1zdz.jpg. With other consoles in 240p curving looks like this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SkslzaHJXzE/maxresdefault.jpg. So it doesn't look exactly same. So is Toro doing something wrong which Extron RGB interface can then fix somehow?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:16 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 759
I've been loosely following this topic because of the similar (to the A-series) sync issues I've had on my D9's and D14's with 129X card, and wanted to chime in. Has anybody else experienced these sync problems on one monitor, then used the same exact console with the same game, same exact cable, same exact input card on another identical-model monitor and had it work just fine? (I've tried different input cards as well FYI).

My sample size isn't huge, I think 2x D9's and maybe 3x D14's, along with probably 4ish different 129X cards. Sadly I don't think I owned a pair of matching monitors at the same time (honestly, I usually sold these pretty quick because of sync issues and other oddities I couldn't stand) so I could be screwing up this test, but I'm 99% positive I've had the same exact 1CHIP-03 SNES (CSYNC) for example work on one D9/D14 (or on two D9's, or two D14's), then not work on another - sometimes with the same exact 129X card (I always keep one of those around to test any of these monitors I might find). PCE is the other console which worked on one but not the other, and for the longest time I only have one of those consoles and only one cable so it was definitely the same exact everything tested on two monitors of the same series. One guy I sold a D14 to and warned him it wouldn't sync to PCE/TG16 wrote me back saying it works fine on his... (want to say we both had the SSDS3 too...) - which is likewise weird.

These were all extremely low hour monitors too - think D9's had under 3-4K (which is pretty normal), one D14 had something insanely low like 1,400 (1.4K), others maybe 10K-ish...so we're talking about fairly low use equipment too.

...just wanted to add the above to the oddity of these monitors, and if I had to guess I would say these sync issues are even dependent on the exact monitor you're testing - so saying a blanket statement that XYZ console works (or doesn't work) on ABC monitor isn't always foolproof since a bit of this might actually be monitor-dependent. This is turning the tables a bit I think. We're all used to certain consoles having like fifty different hardware revisions, so one revision might work on a monitor, while another console revision might NOT work on that same exact monitor, but it's kinda rare from what I can tell for monitors themselves to be likewise fickle.



Anyway, wish I took more pictures and kept better records, but these are the only two pics I could find of my issues. I think this one below is the more common problem people have on the A-series:

Image




This is the second most common problem I've had on D9, D14, and ironically even a couple Sony consumer HD CRT sets (when running 240p content). I want to say with PCE too.

Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BVM-A20F1M Sega consoles Sync problems
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:00 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 947
Location: US, MI
Dochartaigh wrote:
My sample size isn't huge, I think 2x D9's and maybe 3x D14's, along with probably 4ish different 129X cards. Sadly I don't think I owned a pair of matching monitors at the same time (honestly, I usually sold these pretty quick because of sync issues and other oddities I couldn't stand) so I could be screwing up this test, but I'm 99% positive I've had the same exact 1CHIP-03 SNES (CSYNC) for example work on one D9/D14 (or on two D9's, or two D14's), then not work on another - sometimes with the same exact 129X card (I always keep one of those around to test any of these monitors I might find). PCE is the other console which worked on one but not the other, and for the longest time I only have one of those consoles and only one cable so it was definitely the same exact everything tested on two monitors of the same series. One guy I sold a D14 to and warned him it wouldn't sync to PCE/TG16 wrote me back saying it works fine on his... (want to say we both had the SSDS3 too...) - which is likewise weird.

These were all extremely low hour monitors too - think D9's had under 3-4K (which is pretty normal), one D14 had something insanely low like 1,400 (1.4K), others maybe 10K-ish...so we're talking about fairly low use equipment too.

...just wanted to add the above to the oddity of these monitors, and if I had to guess I would say these sync issues are even dependent on the exact monitor you're testing - so saying a blanket statement that XYZ console works (or doesn't work) on ABC monitor isn't always foolproof since a bit of this might actually be monitor-dependent. This is turning the tables a bit I think. We're all used to certain consoles having like fifty different hardware revisions, so one revision might work on a monitor, while another console revision might NOT work on that same exact monitor, but it's kinda rare from what I can tell for monitors themselves to be likewise fickle.

As far as I know, all kind of SNES (given that RGB mod required on some models was done right) are proven to work on PVM/BVM's. There can be numerous explanations to why it didn't work on some of your PVM's starting from firmware differences and ending with dry capacitors. Also what I want to mention is that for capacitors low hours don't matter. Capacitor dries out because of age. True that higher temperature will accelerate this but thing is that most of the professional equipment we use are from 1990-200x and is already failing.
_________________
Україна


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 134 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AndehX, Namesbond and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group