Questions about Playstation 2

[Joelepain]

Hi everyone,

I have some questions about the playstation 2 but information are scattered across the forum.
I never have a playstation 2 nor a playstation 1 and I'm interessed to buy one to play some classics that come to my mind.
I wants to know if there is some hardware revisions of the playtation 2 that are better than the other, or some that I should avoid.
Here are my criteria in the order of importance :

- playstation 1 retro-compatibility
I heard that the slim version of the ps2 is not good for retrocompatibility. Is it the thruth ? The ps1 games I'm planning to buy are Castlevania SotN, Metal Gear Solid, The Crash Bandicoot serie and Crash Team Racing

- reliability (more specifically, the laser lifetime)
- ouput video quality
- noise level (i'm talking about the fan, not the noise in the video)

I'm not planning to do any hardware mod because I understood it's quite hard to do on ps2 and I don't have solder skill level to do it. So it's not something to consider in the criteria.

For ps1 games on ps2, I understood that you need a ps1 memory card. But you can play ps1 with a dualshock 2 controller, right ?

About the video output options, I have an OSSC and I'm not planning to use another video converter/scaler for a while (unless Micomsoft annouces a magical firmware for the xrgb-mini, or a very promising xrgb-4). What is the best option to use for ps2 and ps1 games ? YUV or Scart RGB ? (in terms of quality and practicality)

[austin532]

Hi everyone,

I have some questions about the playstation 2 but information are scattered across the forum.
I never have a playstation 2 nor a playstation 1 and I'm interessed to buy one to play some classics that come to my mind.
I wants to know if there is some hardware revisions of the playtation 2 that are better than the other, or some that I should avoid.
Here are my criteria in the order of importance :

- playstation 1 retro-compatibility
I heard that the slim version of the ps2 is not good for retrocompatibility. Is it the thruth ? The ps1 games I'm planning to buy are Castlevania SotN, Metal Gear Solid, The Crash Bandicoot serie and Crash Team Racing

- reliability (more specifically, the laser lifetime)
- ouput video quality
- noise level (i'm talking about the fan, not the noise in the video)

I'm not planning to do any hardware mod because I understood it's quite hard to do on ps2 and I don't have solder skill level to do it. So it's not something to consider in the criteria.

For ps1 games on ps2, I understood that you need a ps1 memory card. But you can play ps1 with a dualshock 2 controller, right ?

About the video output options, I have an OSSC and I'm not planning to use another video converter/scaler for a while (unless Micomsoft annouces a magical firmware for the xrgb-mini, or a very promising xrgb-4). What is the best option to use for ps2 and ps1 games ? YUV or Scart RGB ? (in terms of quality and practicality)

Alright that's a lot of info but here goes nothing.


As far as hardware revisions, the later is usually the best as they tend to fix any bugs or issues with previous ones.

I also hear that the slim models have more problems with PS1 games but I don't have a slim PS2 to test out that theory. I know that SOTN and CTR have some minor dithering issues that are not present on a PS1.

As far as reliability, it all depends on how much use the system has gotten and not necessarily how old it is. I've come across PS2's from 2000 that still work and others from 2004 that were in bad shape. Generally speaking though people tend to all agree that the 390XX model have the best lasers and durability. At least when it comes to the original fat model.

When it comes to slim versions, the 700XX version is regarded as the worst and supposedly has several problems with PS1 and some PS2 games. Again I don't have any slim versions to test that out. (Not a fan of the slim versions if you haven't noticed)

I am also curious as to which model has the best output quality. Generally with most systems it's either the first or last models on the market. From what I've seen, the PAL 300XX versions have less noise then that later ones.

As far as noise level from the fan, the slims are the quietest. The 500XX is the quietest of the fat models and the 390XX tends to be the loudest. So I would rank them Slim > 500XX > 300XX > 390XX. Haven't spent enough time with the 350XX model to rank it but my guess is it's still quieter than the 390XX.

Yes, you can play PS1 games with a Dualshock 2. You can even play PS2 games with a Dualshock 1 to some extent but it won't work correctly for pressure sensitive games like racing.

I can't really answer this question because it all depends on your setup and what is best for you. I don't have an OSSC yet but would like to get one soon. If you play a lot of PS2 games then use Component, if you play alot of PS1 games, use RGB.

[BuckoA51]

Since PS2 games are usually 480i, OSSC won't help much here and in fact could hinder in many instances (pq will be better using your TVs deinterlacer, but lag would be lower using the OSSC).

You can soft-mod PS2 consoles and run games from hard drive, significantly saving wear and tear on the laser.

[Joelepain]

Since PS2 games are usually 480i, OSSC won't help much here and in fact could hinder in many instances (pq will be better using your TVs deinterlacer, but lag would be lower using the OSSC)

I don't have a TV. I'm playing on my PC Monitor.
Right now I'm chaining OSSC with a VP50pro. So once the OSSC will output 480i passthough in future firmware, I'll use the VP50pro deinterlacing feature.
I could use the component directly into the VP50pro, but from my tests with the 240p test suite on gamecube, the VP50pro and XRGB-mini are buggy and inconsistent regarding the black levels on their component input. So I prefer the OSSC as the primary digitizer.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm in something of the reverse situation from Austin; I have a number of fat PS2s but haven't used them much at all. Instead I've been exclusively using slims. I have a 75XXX for US games and a 90000 for JP titles. Performance is similar for both and I believe they both start out quiet. However, if they run for long enough for the internals to get warm, a somewhat noisy fan will start. I can't compare it directly to a fat PS2 but it is something to think about.

I've had no problems with noisy component or RGB output on my slims - at least nothing was visible to me.

I take the attitude that if it works and is somewhat quiet that it's fine. I don't think it matters much to get into the weeds about which of the slims is the most reliable - there's really not enough information out there to decide if one is notably more reliable, anyway. If you decide to go with a slim, I think it's fine. They are flip-top design but I don't think that they are noisier (supposedly the late slim PS3s are noisier) and the simple lid design also should be very reliable.

[Joelepain]

I take the attitude that if it works and is somewhat quiet that it's fine. I don't think it matters much to get into the weeds about which of the slims is the most reliable - there's really not enough information out there to decide if one is notably more reliable, anyway. If you decide to go with a slim, I think it's fine. They are flip-top design but I don't think that they are noisier (supposedly the late slim PS3s are noisier) and the simple lid design also should be very reliable.

I admit that the ps2 slim form factor is pleasing me the most. The problem is I'm worried about this ps1-game compatibility problem, and it's the most important of my criteria.

The second most important is the reliability because at the time, two of my cousins have a ps1 and they both had the optical block problem (the one where you need to put the console upside down to make it work) and one of them have a ps2 afterward and have a laser problem too. And I know they take care of their stuff so I'm the kind of biaised person who will shout everywhere that sony are doing sh*tty consoles, even if I've never own one myself

For the other criteria (video quality, noise, etc), it's just some "good to know" information, because their so much used ps2 out there, it can be useful for making a choice.

[Ed Oscuro]

If you're a careful person, you can still get problems with any console. They're mass market merchandise and Sony certainly had some issues with at least the early batch, but people also complained about some of the slims too. Even so, there's always the chance of buying a lemon. I would just consider that it's probably worth buying a spare cheap. I'm not sure how repairable the slim models are, but the originals should be fairly easily repairable if it's something simple like the laser assembly or motor.

As for PS2 compatibility with original PS games, I'd say...original PS systems are very cheap too. But in any case, here's the lists of incompatible games (per model, even!):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... yStation_2

[telemetry]

Stupid question Joelepain: can you use the Progressive ReProcessing feature on your VP50Pro with your OSSC?

The OSSC will send 480i field-scaled to 480p, and it seems like this is exactly the reason PRP exists on the VP50* -- to take a 480p signal that looks interlaced and then correctly re- and de-interlace it.

If that works (with acceptable lag), you might be able to get good deinterlacing quality without having to wait for the OSSC passthrough feature.

[Joelepain]

As for PS2 compatibility with original PS games, I'd say...original PS systems are very cheap too. But in any case, here's the lists of incompatible games (per model, even!):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... yStation_2

Hum interesting list. One never think of wikipedia in the most obvious situations xD
If the list is accurate, that means it's more interesting for me to buy a ps2 slim (ps2 games that i'm interested to buy are the MGS serie, the GoW serie, Jak and Daxter serie, maybe SotC, and obviously Gradius V)

Stupid question Joelepain: can you use the Progressive ReProcessing feature on your VP50Pro with your OSSC?

Interesting comment too. Haven't though of this option. I'll test it with my gamecube as soon as I can.
But basicaly I'm not in a hurry. I've got a backlog list of unplayed games on n64, gc, wii, wii u, ds, 3ds and pc that I think the OSSC 3 will be out before i'll play these ps2 games.

[ApolloBoy]

You can soft-mod PS2 consoles and run games from hard drive, significantly saving wear and tear on the laser.

I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this as it's a huge advantage of the fat PS2, albeit you need a modded memory card with HDLoader in order to do it.

[Star1]

[/quote]
I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this as it's a huge advantage of the fat PS2, albeit you need a modded memory card with HDLoader in order to do it.[/quote]

Actually you don't need a FMCB memory card anymore, you can "soft mod" the hard drive itself.

[Limbrooke]

Actually you don't need a FMCB memory card anymore, you can "soft mod" the hard drive itself.

Go on.

[Star1]

http://psx-scene.com/forums/f153/softmo ... 5D-116178/

[ZellSF]

Soft modding is pretty important on a PS2/flat panel combination anyway, since you want GSM to force 480p on many titles that don't support it.

PReP does not work on OSSC+VP50 btw.

[Xer Xian]

There's also a Wikipedia page on PS2 models: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2_models
But if you want to fine-tune your research between all the minor revisions (or even accessories), the best reference is probably here: http://maru-chang.com/hard/scph/index.p ... n/english/

Anyway, as others have already pointed out, there's no ultimate 'best' version for the PS2 - one can only select winners among each major iteration (fat, slim, superslim).

The fat one is nice to have because of soft-mod hd loading. You may want to avoid the first, Japanese only, versions (up to SCPH-18000) since they don't have the expansion bay (and come with a PC card slot instead), which makes ISOs loading harder/worse. For durability purposes the consensus is for the SCPH-39000, but I can vouch for my SCPH-35000 (never had hiccups in 15+ years). If you go for the fat one, it's probably good to remember to go to standby mode before switching off the power button on the back (just keep the reset button pressed for a few secs) - at least, that's what Sony suggested to do.

The slim version is sexy but loses easy hd loading (can be done by hard-modding). It is generally regarded as mode durable than the fat version (minus the first SCPH-70000 model), because of better lens / DVD lid instead of mechanical tray. Some compatibility issues as already noted. (Edit: forgot to say that the consensus is for the SCPH-77000 for this iteration).

The superslim has built-in power supply (it accepts 100-240v - as previous revisions do - so no need for a stepdown converter if you import to Europe). As far as I know there is no way to play from hd (apart maybe the first units, don't remember).

In general, PS1 accessories works with the PS2, with maybe some limitations as already noted (no analog buttons on PS1 pads, PS1 memory works only with -and is required for - PS1 games, etc). Also, you need a PS1 multi-tap for PS1 games (and PS2 multi-taps are version-specific).

It's up to you to choose which region you want your PS2 to be, but keep in mind that back then half-assed PAL conversions were still a thing (but if you go for the fat PS2, you can probably get around that by patching the ISOs - or directly load NTSC ISOs for your PAL console).

Some heads-up for a couple of games you are interested into:
- the Japanese MGS Integral is probably the definitive MGS1 version. It has a bunch if special missions (not story-related, just pure gameplay - released separately for the west), a first-person view, and a few more tidbits. It is english-dubbed too! Well, menus are still in japanese though...
- as for CTR, which is still the awesomest kart game ever, you may want to avoid the NTSC-US version. CTR has a nice adventure mode, but it particularly shines when played aggressively in the time trial mode, and the NTSC-US has a nerfed Penta Penguin (which is the best pilot for most tracks). Both the PAL and the NTSC-J versions are fine, with the last one generally better (but the PAL one is still the go-to version for a minority of tracks in time trial).

[ZellSF]

Fat PS2s before SCPH-5000x literally gives me headaches because of the noise. If you're going for a fat, make it a SCPH-5000x.

Sadly, their weakness is unreliable lasers. Really, these systems are cheap. Pick up more than one (maybe a dedicated PSX for PSX games, a PS2 slim + a separate SCPH-5000x PS2 OPL system, etc).

[Xer Xian]

Fat PS2s before SCPH-5000x literally gives me headaches because of the noise. If you're going for a fat, make it a SCPH-5000x.

Yeah, it can be quite noisy. Yet it is almost silent when compared with a Dreamcast..

Sadly, their weakness is unreliable lasers. Really, these systems are cheap. Pick up more than one (maybe a dedicated PSX for PSX games, a PS2 slim + a separate SCPH-5000x PS2 OPL system, etc).

This is a good advice, and what I also settled for.

[Einzelherz]

Granted I don't play many PSX games these days, but I've never had any issues with my pair of slims - a 70000 and a 75000.

They're slightly more friendly for soft modding as well since disabling the door sensors are a piece of cake.

[accaris]

The fat model 39001 has the most reliable laser, but it's not the quietest.

[austin532]

The fat model 39001 has the most reliable laser, but it's not the quietest.

Looks like we can all agree that it's the loudest. I wonder if swapping out the fan would help?

[RocketBelt]

The fat model 39001 has the most reliable laser, but it's not the quietest.

Looks like we can all agree that it's the loudest. I wonder if swapping out the fan would help?

I have a v7 which was noisy and swapped out the fan for one from a v9 - a very easy mod, the whole fan and power socket assembly is interchangeable. It's been that way for perhaps 10 years and I've never had a problem with it.

[Joelepain]

So if I try to sum up, It gives that :

- Fat are better than Slim in term of compatibility, but the games affected are not necessarily relevent (at least for me)
- Fat are better than Slim for softmodding
- Slim are better than Fat for everyday-userfriendlyness (smaller, quieter)
- SCPH-5000x are quieter than SCPH-3x00x
- SCPH-3900x are supposelly the most reliable, SCPH-5000x are supposelly the least reliable
- the ultimate combo could be a SCPH-3900x modded with the fan of a SCPH-5000x (and ultimately with a hdd/network adapter and a softmodded hdd )
- video quality doesn't differ much between all revisions (or nobody tried to do a serious comparison)

PReP does not work on OSSC+VP50 btw.

I tried gamecube with Artemio test suit in 480i and it seems to work with a vp50pro. When PReP is disabled, you can see the shackyness of the OSSC line doubling. When PReP is enabled and deinterlacing on gamemode 2 the picture looks really good and steady but you get the deinterlacing artifact on drop shadow tests. When PReP is enabled and deinterlacing on gamemode 1 you get back the shackyness (but it's even worse than the one from OSSC with PRep disabled).

[Einzelherz]

I would argue that slim is easier to soft mod since disabling the door sensors is a piece of cake v.s. the sliding tray. I've never modded a fat one, though.

[ZellSF]

I should also add that the latest versions of the slim can't be softmodded with FreeMcBoot. Should probably stay away from 9xxxx series. Maybe someone can elaborate.

On slims it's only useful for playing imports (and you have to burn new DVDs for that, you can't use legal copies) and forcing 480p anyway. Plus some other minor stuff (backuping save games, cheats).

[telemetry]

I tried gamecube with Artemio test suit in 480i and it seems to work with a vp50pro. When PReP is disabled, you can see the shackyness of the OSSC line doubling. When PReP is enabled and deinterlacing on gamemode 2 the picture looks really good and steady but you get the deinterlacing artifact on drop shadow tests.

Sounds promising! I know it's janky, but any differences with the manual lag test between VP50+PReP versus direct OSSC?

[Joelepain]

Sounds promising! I know it's janky, but any differences with the manual lag test between VP50+PReP versus direct OSSC?

I tried to do several tests for both.
Direct OSSC into the display, my best was 6ms, my worst was 20ms, and on average I was around 10ms.
With VP50pro+PReP+gamemode1, my best was 13ms,my worst was 28ms, and on average I was around 20ms.
With VP50pro+PReP+gamemode2, my best was 20ms,my worst was 45ms, and on average I was around 30ms.
I play on an ASUS PA238q PC monitor, which has around half a frame of input lag.

[ApolloBoy]

I would argue that slim is easier to soft mod since disabling the door sensors is a piece of cake v.s. the sliding tray. I've never modded a fat one, though.

That's not what soft modding is...

[Einzelherz]

I would argue that slim is easier to soft mod since disabling the door sensors is a piece of cake v.s. the sliding tray. I've never modded a fat one, though.

That's not what soft modding is...

Soft modding is usually referring to a memory card mod, like free mcboot, yes? Well one of the things it may require, specifically to run PS1 games, is to disable the door sensors.

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

[NormalFish]

I would argue that slim is easier to soft mod since disabling the door sensors is a piece of cake v.s. the sliding tray. I've never modded a fat one, though.

That's not what soft modding is...

Soft modding is usually referring to a memory card mod, like free mcboot, yes? Well one of the things it may require, specifically to run PS1 games, is to disable the door sensors.

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Alternatively, just get someone to send you a memory card with FMCB already installed.

[ApolloBoy]

You can also put FMCB on a memory card using the PS3 memory card adapter and your PC.