Sony BKM-68X impossible to find, thinking of a workaround

[Plazmunky]

So the idea is to send a high quality RGB 240p/480i signal directly from a SCART cable to a BVM-A series monitor without requiring a Sony BKM-68X. Using SDI converters introduces 4:2:2 compression so those are out of the question. Dual-link HD/SDI however can process and output uncompressed video via an HDMI converter, so this is the only exception. I have a sync strike on hand so if I could directly convert RGBHV to HDMI with no scaling involved, shouldn't I be able to convert the HDMI to Dual-link HD/SDI and pass-through the native signal directly to the BVM? I'm not even sure if the Dual-link HD/SDI standard would even allow the signal to be displayed in that card module nor even be converted properly along the way either. Is what I'm suggesting possible? I'm aware that some latency will be introduced by converting signals in a chain.

Or is there just a much smarter way to do what I'm trying to do? My goal is to not scale the image whatsoever.

[kamiboy]

SDI does not support 240p.

[D]

Sometimes you want to achieve something, but you just need to take a step back andd think about what you want to achieve.
Quite Obvious, really just get another monitor. They're cheaper than you might think.

[kamiboy]

The BVM A series are too sharp for good auld fashioned 8/16bit games in my opinion anyway. I have a BVM-A myself, but I do not really use it. Like a trophy wife it just sits in the corner of my room, looking pretty, all while being useless. I wish I could have my old mint 2530 back. But tis better to have loved and lost as the saying goes. In the future I would love to get a PVM 2950 though. Those older PVM models had the perfect image clarity to make old pixel art shine.

BVM's are overhyped "gotta get the besets that ever was, yo!!" traps that a lot of newcomers to the CRT world fall for. Consumer, and lower end pro monitors are a much better choice over all.

[beatsgo]

If you're looking for an cheaper alternative/not worried about s-video/composite, get a bkm-61d.

[alfshusen]

Have you tried here?: http://www.overstockpro.com/product.php?pid=55
here: http://www.broadcaststore.com/store/mod ... ?id=807234
or here: http://www.fhvideo.com/item.php?id=55/BKM68X

You might get lucky.

[RGB0b]

Was anyone ever able to find a BKM-68x? I have an A-series monitor without any input cards and could really use one of these.

[Ikaruga11]

The BVM A series are too sharp for good auld fashioned 8/16bit games in my opinion anyway.

There is no such thing as too sharp.

BVM's are overhyped "gotta get the besets that ever was, yo!!" traps that a lot of newcomers to the CRT world fall for. Consumer, and lower end pro monitors are a much better choice over all.

What makes you say that?

[orange808]

I'm confused. First, you tell me you want to connect SCART directly to the display and then you're suggesting trancoding HDMI.

What inputs do you have available on the monitor?

[kamiboy]

What makes you say that?

Actually owning and using CRT's rather than just reading about them.

[Ikaruga11]

What makes you say that?

Actually owning and using CRT's rather than just reading about them.

Not an argument.

[kamiboy]

Not worth my time.

[Ikaruga11]

Not worth my time.

So you're unable to articulate on why BVMs are overrated and not as good as consumer/PVMs aside from saying you own one and would rather admit defeat than provide evidence and reasoning to back up your claims. Got it.

[RGB0b]

With all due respect, the argument of BVM vs Consumer CRT has no place in this thread; There are two others on this forum for that:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58028
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58169

This topic is about finding a BKM-68X, or finding an alternative to use RGB on the BVM-A monitors. Can anyone help with that?

[Lawfer]

Not worth my time.

So you're unable to articulate on why BVMs are overrated and not as good as consumer/PVMs aside from saying you own one and would rather admit defeat than provide evidence and reasoning to back up your claims. Got it.

To answer real quick, I can vouch for what you are saying. BVM-D/A are awesome, kamiboy doesn't like them due to personal preferences, nothing more, there is nothing as "too sharp" as you mention, if anything the sharper the better because the thing known as "aliasing" that video games developers have wrestled with ever since the PS1/PS2 days generations is all but eliminated on the BVM-D/A monitors thanks to their high TVL (well, unless the signal is really bad, like on the Wii), to give an example of the difference in TVL between consumer grade TVs and BVM-D/A Monitors:

Consumer Grade TVs: Between 250 TVL to 350 TVL

BVM-D/A Monitors: Between 900 TVL to 1000 TVL

[Guspaz]

There isn't really much alternative. Without a BNK-68X, the 61D will let you use composite video or s-video, but that's it for analog.

There are two possibilities that I can see involving digital video. First off, 480p is out, that's just not an SDI standard has any sort of real support from anybody. You've got 480i, and you've got 720p+.

For 480i, you may actually be able to get 240p to work via SDI if the double-strike timing trick translates through SDI. You'd want to start with an RGB-to-HDMI transcoder that supports 240p and/or 480i, and then run that into an HDMI-to-SD-SDI converter, and run that into the BVM. I think it's a crapshoot if it works, as far as I know nobody in the retro community has tried anything like this, because there generally hasn't been any need to try. It's also possible that some RGB-to-HDMI converters or some HDMI-to-SDI converters might work for this, and others might not. Or maybe the double-strike timing trick can't be represented by the BVM's SDI input card, and it's a moot point.

The other option is to get 720p or higher into the BVM. For this, you'll want an HDMI-to-HD-SDI converter unit, and you'll need some device to go from 240p RGB to 720p HDMI. Maybe the OSSC alone could work for this in line-triple mode, but more likely the OSSC+VP50 combo would be required. Not quite zero-lag at that point, but what're you gonna do?

In terms of converters, they can start cheap, but there are a lot of them out there, and it's hard to say which one might work best for any given scenario that I've listed above. Monoprice has an HDMI-to-(SD|HD|3G)-SDI converter for $40, but they also have a variety of other HDMI-to-SDI converters for other prices, even one that includes a built-in scaler and accepts composite, VGA, DVI, and HDMI input.

This is all new ground, I don't think anybody has ever even measured the latency impact of using SDI on PVM/BVMs.

[RGB0b]

I already use an HDMI to HD-SDi converter for my 16:9 BVM and there is zero latency, so that's definitely a 720p solution. I was really hoping for 240p though. I'll see if I can try any SDI tricks.

[Ikaruga11]

I already use an HDMI to HD-SDi converter for my 16:9 BVM and there is zero latency, so that's definitely a 720p solution. I was really hoping for 240p though. I'll see if I can try any SDI tricks.

It seems like the PlayStation 3 is the perfect system for using the SDI connection on a BVM. The PS3 doesn't support 240p anyway, so it doesn't matter that 240p is unsupported by SDI. You can play content natively from 480i PS1/2 games, 480p PS2 games and DVDs, 720p PS3 games, 1080i PS3 games and even 1080p Blurays at 24FPS! Taking advantage of 16:9 and the lossless digital signal with no latency either.

[nissling]

So you're unable to articulate on why BVMs are overrated and not as good as consumer/PVMs aside from saying you own one and would rather admit defeat than provide evidence and reasoning to back up your claims. Got it.

I honestly doubt that anyone thinks a grade-1 monitor would be lesser than anything else of the same display technology. As an owner of the 20F1 as well as having experience with other professional monitors and consumer sets I see no reason whatsoever why any lesser CRT would be preferable when it comes to actual picture quality (unless you count size). Although I can see why some find it overkill. I.e. I talked to a colorist at the Swedish Film institute once and when I said that the remaining pro CRTs are used by retro gamers he laughed and replied that the companies who invested those sets to begin with probably wouldn't be very impressed to hear where they all ended.

I've also seen the Dolby PRM-4200 in real life once and it completely crushes any CRT you'll ever find as well as a consumer LCD, which it should considering it's such a high class monitor.

[Ikaruga11]

So you're unable to articulate on why BVMs are overrated and not as good as consumer/PVMs aside from saying you own one and would rather admit defeat than provide evidence and reasoning to back up your claims. Got it.

I honestly doubt that anyone thinks a grade-1 monitor would be lesser than anything else of the same display technology. As an owner of the 20F1 as well as having experience with other professional monitors and consumer sets I see no reason whatsoever why any lesser CRT would be preferable when it comes to actual picture quality (unless you count size).

I've also seen the Dolby PRM-4200 in real life once and it completely crushes any CRT you'll ever find as well as a consumer LCD, which it should considering it's such a high class monitor.

Yeah, one disadvantage of CRTs is not having the pixel-perfect sharpness of an LCD. Consumer CRTs are too blurry to me imo. BVMs solve this issue.

[nissling]

I can come to think of many disadvantages with CRTs, and very few pros considering the current OLEDs available (I left both PDP and LCD last summer). The only thing I can miss sometimes is the rather nice flow in motions with exception of dark scenes. Although my OLED shows motions in 24p just like a 35mm projection would I find myself liking the motion from a CRT somewhat more in certain cases. Note that this is all my subjective opinion. With 3:2 cadence in mind films doesn't really look all that stellar on 99% of all CRTs available...

[wwse]

Hello everybody. Some weeks ago, searching for some multiformat PVM or BVM i came across one ad for the sale of Sony BVM A20F1U.
Please follow the link: https://esbroadcast.com/product/used-so ... rt-monitor
As you can see, instead of the BKM-68x, the BKM-21D is installed.
What do you think about it? Maybe someone has a BVM A-series and BKM-21d, or someone can work together to experiment.
I cannot guarantee that this idea is workable, maybe BKM-21D was inserted as a stub - i just thinking out loud...
BKM-21D starting price 200-300$ on ebay, BKM-68x not to get anywhere.

[Fudoh]

The 21D doesn't work in the A series BVM monitors. If it did, we wouldn't have the input problems on these monitors (plus the insane asking prices on the 68X board).

[wwse]

Found interesting photo searching internet:
Sony BVM A20F1 with 3xBKM-68x.