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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:56 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 465
Kez wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
is there a chance we may see 1080i output in the future? That's the resolution that IMO looks best on multisync monitors.


720p mode is still using line multiplication, so an exact 1080 output is unlikely. Maybe 960i is possible, I am not sure if the the monitor would display it though.


That would be interesting. If the monitor can do 1080i it should be able to do 960i too, I imagine. Maybe I can test this with an OSSC.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:13 pm 


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Compatibility of analogue inputs of a TV / Monitor maybe differs from the digital ones. So keep that in mind!
by the way, that's the reason why I haven't enabled LineX3 for PAL inputs - it's too far away from specifications of 720p50. Also, please do not count on 960i even though it might be possible to implement in some kind of far from any specs. Also 1080i is not possible - the FPGA has not enough resources.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:59 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 627
I'm a bit lazy right now to read through all 30+ pages (I will over time :D) , but just to get a quick idea of how well this performs, has anyone noticed a difference on consumer crt's with the blur fixing?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:44 pm 


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Taiyaki wrote:
I'm a bit lazy right now to read through all 30+ pages (I will over time :D) , but just to get a quick idea of how well this performs, has anyone noticed a difference on consumer crt's with the blur fixing?


It's obvious to me on my KV-32FV310


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:33 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 627
bobrocks95 wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
I'm a bit lazy right now to read through all 30+ pages (I will over time :D) , but just to get a quick idea of how well this performs, has anyone noticed a difference on consumer crt's with the blur fixing?


It's obvious to me on my KV-32FV310

Ok, thank you, then it's time to have that installed I guess. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:58 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 465
borti4938 wrote:
Compatibility of analogue inputs of a TV / Monitor maybe differs from the digital ones. So keep that in mind!
by the way, that's the reason why I haven't enabled LineX3 for PAL inputs - it's too far away from specifications of 720p50. Also, please do not count on 960i even though it might be possible to implement in some kind of far from any specs. Also 1080i is not possible - the FPGA has not enough resources.


Thanks for this info! An off-spec 960i would be pretty interesting if it ever happens. 720p should be good enough for most people, hope I can update the fw soon and check it out.

BTW can anyone recommend a good place to get a USB blaster?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:55 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1295
960i would useful for people with HD CRTs.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:05 am 


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Posts: 440
fernan1234 wrote:
BTW can anyone recommend a good place to get a USB blaster?


I got mine off eBay and have updated N64A with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:22 pm 



Joined: 20 Mar 2017
Posts: 29
I'm sorry I know this has been asked a few times but I just want to make sure I am getting this right.

I recently installed Tim's board and was curious about the de-blur feature. His site says this:

Quote:
Boards sold after 27/12/2016 now come with software v1.1 which includes an optional 'de-blur' feature. This gives the video a pleasing sharp pixel look. The feature is disabled by default but can be enabled by connecting the the pad labelled A to the pad labelled G (for ground). If you use it I recommend a connecting a switch as few games don't look good while de-blur is enabled. This feature comes courtesy of Borti4938, who has written alternate software for the N64RGB.


It sounds like the firmware is updated on boards purchased after 2016 but I've read on here that the board actually does need to be flashed with a newer firmware. Can anyone confirm which is true?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:37 pm 



Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 14
mheyman wrote:
Can anyone confirm which is true?


I purchased a board from Tim in May 2018 and it came with the deblur firmware, no flashing necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:52 am 


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mheyman wrote:
I'm sorry I know this has been asked a few times but I just want to make sure I am getting this right.

I recently installed Tim's board and was curious about the de-blur feature. His site says this:

Quote:
Boards sold after 27/12/2016 now come with software v1.1 which includes an optional 'de-blur' feature. This gives the video a pleasing sharp pixel look. The feature is disabled by default but can be enabled by connecting the the pad labelled A to the pad labelled G (for ground). If you use it I recommend a connecting a switch as few games don't look good while de-blur is enabled. This feature comes courtesy of Borti4938, who has written alternate software for the N64RGB.


It sounds like the firmware is updated on boards purchased after 2016 but I've read on here that the board actually does need to be flashed with a newer firmware. Can anyone confirm which is true?


I don't know what fw comes flashed with Tim's board and if it comes with other features such as 15bit color mode, slow slew rate, etc. Borti has updated his fw ~4 months ago and you can see all the features here:

https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/tre ... eralRGBmod

and here to grab the fw:

https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/tre ... es/viletim

"sw" if you're using a physical switch and "igr" if you're using in-game routines with your controller.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:15 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 108
Why are the integer scaling options disabled when running in 480p with ultrahdmi?

If anyone is interested I'm experimenting with old plasma TVs at the moment with retro consoles and am picking up a Hitachi 42PD960DTA on the weekend for testing at 576i/p. This Hitachi panel uses something called 'ALIS' (interlaced scan) technology which apparently uses the same fluorescent phosphors as conventional Cathode Ray Tube (CRT). It has a resolution of 1024x1080 and I figured it would be interesting to test it with ultrahdmi and gcvideo because I doubt anyone has done it before. I figured the 1024 horizontal resolution would be good for anamorphic PAL GCN (720x576) interlaced games since it squares up nicely with 1024 as would the 1080 vertical resolution because of the interlaced ALIS panel. I will report back with results. I'm very curious to know how it handles interlaced content in particular since I'm assuming no deinterlacing is required?

The last plasma set I bought has a setting called "Vertical filter" (which I'm assuming is just a monitor side V-blur toggle) which when enabled seems to clean up the unsightly interlacing artifacts in the Goldeneye menus for example. Win!

Edit: copping a lot of flack for all the TVs piling up around the house naturally.


Last edited by strayan on Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:22 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:37 pm 


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strayan wrote:
Why are the integer scaling options disabled when running in 480p with ultrahdmi?


I think 480p is just line doubled with no scaling anyway, so it is integer scaled by definition. At higher res you can choose between integer scaling (i.e. line multiplication) or proper upscaling (line 2x to 480p and scaled from there).


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:57 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 108
Kez wrote:
strayan wrote:
Why are the integer scaling options disabled when running in 480p with ultrahdmi?


I think 480p is just line doubled with no scaling anyway.


Cheers. It certainly looks like it's line doubled.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:14 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 108
I’m really confused about the way ultrahdmi handles interlaced content when set to output 480p and would like to know if it’s possible to replicate the way ultrahdmi handles interlaced signals for all retro consoles so I can take advantage of the higher resolution interlaced modes sometimes available. Whatever it does looks stunning on my 480p plasma which no combing artefacts which other people seem to complain about.

Can anyone break it down for me?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:23 am 


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Posts: 2250
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strayan wrote:
I’m really confused about the way ultrahdmi handles interlaced content when set to output 480p and would like to know if it’s possible to replicate the way ultrahdmi handles interlaced signals for all retro consoles so I can take advantage of the higher resolution interlaced modes sometimes available. Whatever it does looks stunning on my 480p plasma which no combing artefacts which other people seem to complain about.

Can anyone break it down for me?


To quote Videogameperfection's review:
Quote:
As our friends over at My Life in Gaming pointed out in their excellent N64 video, the unit only appears to use a very basic frame-double deinterlace, which results in lots of combing artefacts on moving images.


Not sure if something's changed or you're just not noticing the combing artifacts on your plasma.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:33 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1298
strayan wrote:
I’m really confused about the way ultrahdmi handles interlaced content when set to output 480p and would like to know if it’s possible to replicate the way ultrahdmi handles interlaced signals for all retro consoles so I can take advantage of the higher resolution interlaced modes sometimes available. Whatever it does looks stunning on my 480p plasma which no combing artefacts which other people seem to complain about.

Can anyone break it down for me?

I'm not sure what you're looking at, but I've definitely experienced combing artifacts with mine. According to VGP's review of the UltraHDMI, it uses a double-frame method of deinterlacing, which I believe is a combination of the current interlaced frame and the previous one.

If you want to deinterlace 480i output from your consoles, you'll either need to send that 480i directly to your display for deinterlacing and upscaling or use some other video processor to perform deinterlacing, like a cheap whatever-to-HDMI scaler/converter from Amazon/eBay, or an Extron DSC 301 HD, or a Framemeister, or a DVDO.

I'm also not aware of any community-driven projects for a scaler that either purposefully or coincidentally mimic the output and scaling options of the UltraHDMI, though I will say it would be neat to have something along those lines; a simple, standalone scaler that can take any resolution or framerate input and framerate convert to 50/60/72Hz and scale to a preset resolution (At least 480p/576p/720p/1080p, like the UltraHDMI, plus an EDID autodetect to automatically use the native resolution of the panel, just like the Xbox 360), with a constant output so it will survive upstream resolution switches (pretty much the one thing the Framemeister should be able to do but doesn't).


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:48 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 108
So do you mean those non community driven products like the extron or framemesiter do double frame deinterlacing (are there other names for double frame deinterlacing so I can do some more searching about it)?

Is there any way to get a GameCube to do double frame deinterlacing without a dedicated deinterlacer? I have a EON GCHD Mk-II which does line doubling but that just makes interlaced content look even worse on my TV.


Last edited by strayan on Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:15 am 


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Posts: 1200
Location: Australia
Swiss and Nintendont force 480i ti 480p.
Swiss is perfect imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:20 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 108
Syntax wrote:
Swiss and Nintendont force 480i ti 480p.
Swiss is perfect imo.


Will Swiss force 576i (or anything higher) to 480p as well?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:34 am 


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No idea. Dont use GC much till an ODE that can stream audio is released.

For now a Wii with wiidual mod will bypass the 480p code oversight/glitch in wiis homebrew SDK and nintendont does a nice job of forcing modes but has no option for anti dither like swiss does.
Running swiss on a wii is a pain too.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:55 pm 


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strayan wrote:
Will Swiss force 576i (or anything higher) to 480p as well?

It usually work. There's 576p for when it doesn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:57 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1298
strayan wrote:
So do you mean those non community driven products like the extron or framemesiter do double frame deinterlacing (are there other names for double frame deinterlacing so I can do some more searching about it)?

No, I only know that the UltraHDMI does double-frame deinterlacing; I have no idea what deinterlacing methods other video processors will use, and they may offer a choice of methods.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:26 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 108
nmalinoski wrote:
No, I only know that the UltraHDMI does double-frame deinterlacing; I have no idea what deinterlacing methods other video processors will use, and they may offer a choice of methods.


Is there another name for this type of deinterlacing?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:39 am 


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I took some time today to compare borti's N64RGBv2 and N64RGBv1 using the same console. The N64RGBv1 uses a resistor ladder and the N64RGBv2 uses a DAC IC. The N64RGBv1 is essentially the same as viletim's N64RGB as far as I know but with input resistors. I started by installing the N64RGBv1:

Image

When playing through my PVM the picture looked crystal clear. When going through my OSSC to HDTV I could see some noise, mostly on bright backgrounds. The noise is a kind of flickering which I've seen others experience on these forums. I was certain it was from the console's 3.3v rail. I captured some footage from a couple of games to demonstrate the noise:

Super Mario 64(most noticeable at the select file screen): https://streamable.com/5njnc
Paper Mario: https://streamable.com/t3cha
Snowboard Kids 2: https://streamable.com/20zi9

I then swapped out the N64RGBv1 for the N64RGBv2 and took some footage of the same games:

Image

Super Mario 64: https://streamable.com/idfx4
Paper Mario: https://streamable.com/zs1fl
Snowboard Kids 2: https://streamable.com/ilsqm

No noise at all, output is crystal clear! I wanted to be certain that the video noise with the N64RGBv1 was due to the N64's 3.3v rail, so I put the N64RGBv1 back in but this time included borti's 3.3v Power Regulator board:

Image
Image

Super Mario 64: https://streamable.com/rbrvq
Paper Mario: https://streamable.com/90as9
Snowboard Kids 2: https://streamable.com/v042q

The noise is gone! I don't know what percentage of N64's are affected by this 3.3v power issue but it seems to me that borti's PR board should always be installed alongside the N64RGBv1 or viletim's N64RGB, if it's even just as a preventative measure.

I also took some screenshots:

N64RGBv1: https://imgur.com/a/MhptnZj
N64RGBv2: https://imgur.com/a/UHj2JUe
N64RGBv1 + PR: https://imgur.com/a/Y6cNtir

When comparing screenshots between the N64RGBv2 and N64RGBv1 with PR board, I can't say that one looks better than the other. Maybe others have better eyes than me.

tl;dr:
-N64RGBv2 output is crystal clear unlike the N64RGBv1 and viletim's N64RGB which are vulnerable to video noise
-installing a N64RGBv1 or viletim's N64RGB without borti's 3.3v Power Regulator board can lead to video noise
-with the Power Regulator board installed alongside the N64RGBv1/viletim's N64RGB, I don't notice any significant difference in picture quality when compared to the N64RGBv2
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:13 pm 


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Awesome work with the captures! Finally some nice videos showing the issue.

I'll chime in and say every single N64RGB board I have fit I have modified with a 3.3v LDO and 2 capacitors to eliminate the on screen noise.

Only some do I have to install resistors on the data lines to fix jumping pixels.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:17 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1298
Would there be any benefit to installing that power regulator board for use solely with an UltraHDMI?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:24 am 


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Syntax wrote:
Awesome work with the captures! Finally some nice videos showing the issue.

I'll chime in and say every single N64RGB board I have fit I have modified with a 3.3v LDO and 2 capacitors to eliminate the on screen noise.

Only some do I have to install resistors on the data lines to fix jumping pixels.


Thank you! Did you check for noise on each install prior to doing the 3.3v fix? I'm wondering if all N64's are affected by this.

nmalinoski wrote:
Would there be any benefit to installing that power regulator board for use solely with an UltraHDMI?


I don't think there'll be any benefit at all. UltraHDMI output is crystal clear. The 3.3v fix should only be applied if installing Tim Worthington's N64RGB or borti's N64RGBv1, which is also mentioned on his oshpark page for the power regulator
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:35 am 


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Posts: 1200
Location: Australia
unmaker wrote:
Thank you! Did you check for noise on each install prior to doing the 3.3v fix? I'm wondering if all N64's are affected by this.


Yup, I always check hoping one day I'll get one without noise, I even made my own PSU out of a laptop PSU and it changed nothing.

Music and controller inputs can be seen on the 3.3v line via scope. Both can be seen by eye on light backgrounds, controller inputs being barely noticeable.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 12:54 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1298
unmaker wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
Would there be any benefit to installing that power regulator board for use solely with an UltraHDMI?


I don't think there'll be any benefit at all. UltraHDMI output is crystal clear. The 3.3v fix should only be applied if installing Tim Worthington's N64RGB or borti's N64RGBv1, which is also mentioned on his oshpark page for the power regulator

I read the oshpark page, which says it's designed for use with those RGB boards; it doesn't say it is only applicable to them, thus my question.


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