Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

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bonzo.bits
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bonzo.bits »

I have a video noise problem with two N64 NTSC-J consoles.

One has Borti’s N64Advanced installed and the other has eTim N64RGB v1.1 (including Borti’s 3.3v regulator board).

I get the same type of video noise from both consoles. On CRT you can’t really notice it, but on OSSC to to plasma, OLED and LCD it’s a different story. In line 2x there is severe video noise, as seen here: https://youtu.be/cxFQx07OXgk

In line 3x-5x there is still noise but it’s more the typical soft fuzzy type of noise. It’s not as obvious nor distracting as the 2x noise, it doesn’t even look like the same type of noise.

I’m using a luma SCART cable from Retro Access.

So far have tried the following:

- remove resistor and capacitor from composite and luma paths near multi-out
- remove 220uf caps from display end of SCART cable
- install Borti’s power regulator in console with eTim’d board (had a 10-15% improvement)
- first party and third party PSU
- uninstall/reinstall
- inspect for shorts on boards (board shorts? haha)

None of these improved the noise, some may have made it slightly worse.

Anyone have any tips for what to try next? I’m thinking maybe a new cable, but also can’t shake the thought that it could just be a component or circuit common to both these consoles. They use the fine pitch chip MAV-NUS so maybe that is involved...

Edit: it looks like the OSSC is a strong candidate for being the source of the problem. With OSSC to any flatscreen the noise exists. With console direct to CRT there is no noise, maybe just some light fuzz (have to double check that). With OSSC 240p passthrough > HDMI to VGA adapter > VGA to SCART cable to CRT there is the same noise again. It's not just the N64s either - my Saturn has the same noise and my Genesis has more subtle noise and also a bar of pinkish hue running horizontally near top of screen and taking up about 15% of vertical span. With direct to CRT connection the Saturn noise and Genesis pink hue do not occur. I used to have a second OSSC from the factory that I sold and from memory I didn't have this noise - just the N64RGB noise that was somewhat resolved by Borti's voltage regulator board, it appears my DIY OSSC is in need of some attention.
Last edited by bonzo.bits on Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Syntax
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

My only thought is try removing the multiout and isolating the ground pins, then run ground straight from the mod board to those pins.

Strange that both consoles have the same issue, make sure its not the current TV setup, something new in the room/house causing it.
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bonzo.bits
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bonzo.bits »

Syntax wrote:My only thought is try removing the multiout and isolating the ground pins, then run ground straight from the mod board to those pins.

Strange that both consoles have the same issue, make sure its not the current TV setup, something new in the room/house causing it.
Saw that on Borti’s install guide, will try it out. Edit: just checked and it’s not in the guide, must have been posted in this thread, maybe by you...

Noise issues started in my old house, can’t recall if it was same type though. I only really remember it being the softer type of noise. I didn’t check 2x back then though it was only 3x and 4x so that explains that. New house is only 7 years old and the only device I could think of would be the ethernet over powerline adapters maybe having some impact. But since the noise existed prior to moving in this is currently lowest probability (if any at all). Hopefully shielding the ground pins on multi-out does the job.

Edit: previous post update with new findings. Looks like my DIY OSSC is the culprit - my other OSSC did not have this type of noise but I sold it so can't test it out. Will have to reflow the OSSC chips and check for more board shorts.
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Syntax
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

Try put a large capacitor across the OSSC power input, something over 1500-2000uf, see if it changes the noise. Could be a crappy PSU.
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bonzo.bits
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bonzo.bits »

Syntax wrote:Try put a large capacitor across the OSSC power input, something over 1500-2000uf, see if it changes the noise. Could be a crappy PSU.
It was the OSSC after all. I think one of the tiny pads for the audio board got lifted - should have taped the audio board to main PCB when I installed it. Whoops. Only found it by fluke when I decided to redo the clock, 3.3v and 5v cables cos the original soldering job was a bit poxy. Soldering the tiny audio board connectors to pin on the IC will be a job for another day.

Thanks for the tips mate.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bobrocks95 »

Ugh, I know it was talked about in this thread, but- video noise with Tim's kit. Didn't it come down to either the 3.3V or 5V power rails on the N64 being really dirty? I've got horizontal flickering bars, especially on white screens and other solid colors.

Was the fix simple or basically "use borti's board"? Using good cable with csync, N64 is the only console with the problem, and I believe the board has the little makeshift fix of wrapping the ground wire around one of the screws. Not noticeable on a CRT, only after switching over to OSSC+OLED.
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Gunstar
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Gunstar »

bobrocks95 wrote:Ugh, I know it was talked about in this thread, but- video noise with Tim's kit. Didn't it come down to either the 3.3V or 5V power rails on the N64 being really dirty? I've got horizontal flickering bars, especially on white screens and other solid colors.

Was the fix simple or basically "use borti's board"? Using good cable with csync, N64 is the only console with the problem, and I believe the board has the little makeshift fix of wrapping the ground wire around one of the screws. Not noticeable on a CRT, only after switching over to OSSC+OLED.
Yeah, it was the 3.3v. There's a Borti designed board for the noisy rail, here's one example: https://arthrimus.com/product/borti4938 ... regulator/

It's open-source so you can make your own too.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bobrocks95 »

Gunstar wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:Ugh, I know it was talked about in this thread, but- video noise with Tim's kit. Didn't it come down to either the 3.3V or 5V power rails on the N64 being really dirty? I've got horizontal flickering bars, especially on white screens and other solid colors.

Was the fix simple or basically "use borti's board"? Using good cable with csync, N64 is the only console with the problem, and I believe the board has the little makeshift fix of wrapping the ground wire around one of the screws. Not noticeable on a CRT, only after switching over to OSSC+OLED.
Yeah, it was the 3.3v. There's a Borti designed board for the noisy rail, here's one example: https://arthrimus.com/product/borti4938 ... regulator/

It's open-source so you can make your own too.
Straightforward and drop-in, I'll give it a try thanks. Looks like some people on here said it didn't fix their problems but I'll give it a shot.
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Gunstar
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Gunstar »

bobrocks95 wrote:
Straightforward and drop-in, I'll give it a try thanks. Looks like some people on here said it didn't fix their problems but I'll give it a shot.
That's interesting, I have the same noise as you on my Tim RGB board and although I have the borti regulator here I've yet to install it, I might try and do it this weekend to see how well it works. The makeshift ground wrap fix didn't do anything for me, unfortunately, I could still see the flickering bars/noise on a CRT.
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Syntax
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

When you do install the new 3.3v regulator be sure to disconnect the 3.3v feed from the AVP.

Another option is cutting some traces and running the THS7374@5v.
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Gunstar »

Syntax wrote:When you do install the new 3.3v regulator be sure to disconnect the 3.3v feed from the AVP.

Another option is cutting some traces and running the THS7374@5v.
I had someone do the RGB mod for me so not familiar with what AVP is, I'm assuming I should disconnect the 3.3v wire from the board to the MAV/DENC/VDC-NUS chip and then solder from the borti regulator to the larger '3V3' pad on the RGB board, something like this?

Image
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bobrocks95
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bobrocks95 »

Gunstar wrote:
Syntax wrote:When you do install the new 3.3v regulator be sure to disconnect the 3.3v feed from the AVP.

Another option is cutting some traces and running the THS7374@5v.
I had someone do the RGB mod for me so not familiar with what AVP is, I'm assuming I should disconnect the 3.3v wire from the board to the MAV/DENC/VDC-NUS chip and then solder from the borti regulator to the larger '3V3' pad on the RGB board, something like this?

Image
Just eyeballing the traces, but I believe all those 3.3.v inputs are tied together there, so looks like the right idea to me. I'll be installing one in probably 3 weeks once I get it in the mail, only one I could find available right away was from the UK so it'll be a bit for me. Unless of course international shipping is still as awful as it was a few months ago...
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Syntax
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

For some reason I was thinking the Wiis encoder, which is AVE anyway, but yes you are correct with your pictures, you want to remove any trace of the original 3.3v power going into the modboard.

The logic side must be driven by 3.3v, the amp side can run off 5v but seems fine with 3.3. I never noticed a difference.
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Gunstar »

Thank you both for confirming the steps
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vol.2
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by vol.2 »

What's making the 3.3V rail so poor? Is it just a shitty VR, or does the voltage get noisy as a result of the circuit?
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bobrocks95 »

vol.2 wrote:What's making the 3.3V rail so poor? Is it just a shitty VR, or does the voltage get noisy as a result of the circuit?
If I remember right people said it's picking up VDP activity as well as controller inputs apparently.
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by vol.2 »

bobrocks95 wrote:
vol.2 wrote:What's making the 3.3V rail so poor? Is it just a shitty VR, or does the voltage get noisy as a result of the circuit?
If I remember right people said it's picking up VDP activity as well as controller inputs apparently.
Aha. Thanks.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bobrocks95 »

I mean someone else was also saying they had to lift multiout ground pins and tie them together to fix noise, so sounds like something is off about the N64 board design.
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

Yeah I never really trusted pulling the multiout grounds.

The 3.3v was found to have audio and controller inputs corrupting it.

I first noticed it on the Superman title screen and that the patterns followed the music.
Borti later confirmed the same on a system the other side of the globe with a scope and could also see button inputs.

The external regulator fixes it instantly.

I just remembered Tim added a regulator to n64rgb 2019, but it looks like it only supplies the amp.

If you have a v2 and this fixes your noise update us.
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Thamiel »

I have Tim's latest board flashed with Bortis firmware and havnt noticed anything. Got any games and OSSC settings you'd like me to test??

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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

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Syntax wrote: I first noticed it on the Superman title screen and that the patterns followed the music.
:shock: The one with the rings?
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

vol.2 wrote:
Syntax wrote: I first noticed it on the Superman title screen and that the patterns followed the music.
:shock: The one with the rings?
It was made way back for us to notice flaws with the N64 and RGB mod boards, they never intended for anyone to actually get past the title screen or attempt to play the thing.
Id rather fly a kite. Way better control.
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vol.2
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

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Syntax wrote: Id rather fly a kite. Way better control.
It'd be easier to fly the kite through rings than to get superman to do it!

I remember being kind of excited about it because I was into the BTAS and the later DC cartoons from the 90s. What a let-down that piece of garbage was!
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

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Thamiel wrote:I have Tim's latest board flashed with Bortis firmware and havnt noticed anything. Got any games and OSSC settings you'd like me to test??

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
I'm just using generic 5x scaling, but anything with a solid color shows it- Super Mario 64 file select is a good example on a common title. Don't know if Tim revised the board to fix the problems, I thought I had the newest.

EDIT: I might have 1.2, maybe 2019's 2.0 cleaned up some power stuff.
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Thamiel »

bobrocks95 wrote:
Thamiel wrote:I have Tim's latest board flashed with Bortis firmware and havnt noticed anything. Got any games and OSSC settings you'd like me to test??

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
I'm just using generic 5x scaling, but anything with a solid color shows it- Super Mario 64 file select is a good example on a common title. Don't know if Tim revised the board to fix the problems, I thought I had the newest.

EDIT: I might have 1.2, maybe 2019's 2.0 cleaned up some power stuff.
Just checked SM64 and Superman, not noticing any noise at all.

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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Gunstar »

Just installed the regulator board and it's cleaned up the noise, the white screen transitions in Mario 64 look immaculate now.

C162 is a good place to check if pin 7 has been soldered to okay (might be different on other revisions?).
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

Another win! Great to hear your picture is all clear now.
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Gunstar »

Syntax wrote:Another win! Great to hear your picture is all clear now.
Appreciate the help! Interestingly enough the modder hadn't done the 'ground wrap fix' on the shield/heatsink (despite me linking him to a post about the solution) so I was incorrect to say that it didn't work as it was never performed in the first place.
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bobrocks95 »

Uhh, well, I got the regulator board and popped it in and when I turned it on the power LED on the N64 was flickering so I have it unplugged right now...

Thanks for the continuity test points Gunstar, all looked good with the board itself. I snipped the original 3.3V line on the ribbon connector, checked that I didn't manage to bridge a pin where the ribbon cable connected originally, and hooked the 3.3V from the new regulator board up to the larger pad on the N64RGB...

No clue what else to look at.
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

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bobrocks95 wrote:Uhh, well, I got the regulator board and popped it in and when I turned it on the power LED on the N64 was flickering so I have it unplugged right now...

Thanks for the continuity test points Gunstar, all looked good with the board itself. I snipped the original 3.3V line on the ribbon connector, checked that I didn't manage to bridge a pin where the ribbon cable connected originally, and hooked the 3.3V from the new regulator board up to the larger pad on the N64RGB...

No clue what else to look at.
With my first attempt, the N64 didn't power on so I uninstalled the regulator board and decided to remove a fair bit of the old solder from the three target pins. I then added a bit of fresh solder before connecting the regulator board again and it worked. I'm not sure how well it was mixing with the old existing solder plus it's hard to see as it gets obscured but try giving that shot, hopefully, it works for you too.
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