HD retrovision - Did anyone join the kickstarter?

[neorichieb1971]

http://www.hdretrovision.com/

I did a search but did not find anything on this new company developing component cables for Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo. They are also developing a component cable for Dreamcast which switches automatically between 480p and 480i. If the company is a success they also plan to build a HDMizer to use with the cables, which essentially is a US made Framemeister of sorts.

I'm posting this because if anyone is buying the cables I would like to know if they work well with your LCD TV.. Or perhaps people know which models of LCD do actually support 240p in the UK (and for the USA if people are interested in this type of cable).

The site states its passing RGB into the component cable, which then converts the signal on the fly. It doesn't do anything fancy, its more for TV compatibility with US TV's. However the HDMizer will fix all incompatibilities.

Please discuss (if not discussed already)

[telemetry]

Seems like an OSSC but with S-Video...

Interesting how they've basically reinvented GameCube component cables (with a microprocessor in the cable to do signal conversion), but for analog > analog instead of D/A...

[leonk]

They had a kickstarter a while back that never materialized.. when the originator posted on the "8 and 16 bit forum" I questioned him about it.

The bottom line is that it's nothing more than an RGB to component converter box. Worst yet (the secret that the person is NOT sharing) is that in order to take full advantage of this box on most consoles, you will need to RGB mod the console!!! They're starting with Genesis and SNES-1 because these 2 consoles already support native RGB out (the SNES quality is not as good as Mini .. but again, mini will need to be modded). Want this on NES? It will work.. after you install NESRGB (but if you install NESRGB, why not just get the cheap component daughterboard!?)

[Guspaz]

So much misinformation and falsehoods here...

- They're component cables for the SNES and Genesis, with plans for genesis-to-other adapters for the PS1, Saturn, and maybe more. Genesis for the adapters because it's less "special" than the SNES RGB, and because the mini-din socket is easier to source (already sourced for the model-1-to-model-2 adapter).

- They use a custom internal RGB-to-YPbPr converter, in-line in the cable. Pre-tuned, and ought to be cheaper than standalone converters (backer price was $35). No external power required (powered by the console), no extra space required.

- They don't upscale, so the display must still support 240p. This will be great for anybody with a consumer CRT with component video inputs, since none of them do RGB in North America (and this is an American product). It may also be convenient with PVMs, since component switches are way cheaper and easier to find than SCART switches, and it's also convenient to loop the output from the PVM to some "normal" display without conversion. Also, if you have an HDTV that does good 240p handling, that works for you too. They're not really intended for hardcore enthusiasts, though, mostly for average consumers who want something better than composite video.

- The Dreamcast converter and the HDMIzer are theoretical future products currently on the planning board.

- Nothing to do with S-Video. They don't use the luma or chroma outputs. Nothing like OSSC, this doesn't upscale or convert to digital.

- The kickstarter did just fine, and was funded. They've been posting regular updates about their progress, showing off the designs, the prototypes, the production samples, the test rigs... They've given the OK to start the final production run (these are being custom manufactured in a factory, not by hand). They've also been very active in the retro gaming community, participating in lots of RGB discussions, and even RGB panels at a variety of conventions.

- This is way more convenient than an RGB-to-component box. For one thing, it's not a box, they're *cables*, and are specifically tuned to the consoles targeted by the cables. That's more applicable to the SNES than the Genesis.

- Despite leonk's false claims of conspiracy, these cables don't require any sort of RGB modding for typical users. They're cables for the SNES and Genesis, both of which support RGB output natively, excepting the SNES Mini, which requires only a pretty simple RGB-restore mod. The SNES Mini is relatively rare compared to the full-sized console, however, so that's a pretty small market segment.

- This is not intended for the NES, although if you already have an NESRGB, you can use it. They never advertised it for the NES, they never said it works on the NES. The closest thing they came to that is their FAQ, where they say they have no plans to support the NES, but they recommend Tim Worthington's NESRGB.

It sounds like Leonk is either thinking of completely different products, or is just intentionally spreading bullshit FUD. WTF, man?

I, for one, have chatted with them a few times, and they're standup guys. While I missed their kickstarter, I'm eagerly awaiting a chance to buy some after the kickstarter rewards are sent out.

More information can be found on their site (http://www.hdretrovision.com/) or their Kickstarter updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hd ... es/updates).

[leonk]

Guspaz: SNES Mini is a lot more common than you think. I've done a boat load of RGB + CSYNC enablement mods on them for customers. Yes, the SNES model 1 will support this device, but the mini (which puts out the best RGB signal) will not. So I did not say anything false about that. More info here: http://retrorgb.com/snesversioncompare.html

Frankly, I don't see the purpose of these cables. Sticking to CSYNC RGB will give customers a more flexible solution. People can connect to PVM/BVM using RGB. If they decide to upgrade from CRT technology to HDTV technology (using XRGB Mini or the up and coming community scalar http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ossc.html) then they can continue to use the same RGB cables.

Component video does not provide the same video quality as RGB. It is not as flexible as RGB. A lot of 2015+ HDTV's have lost the component connector (and those that have it, most don't support 240p or do poor job of scaling 240p to 1080p or 4k) I guess I just don't understand the fascination of investing in dead technology.

I love component. From 2006 to 2014 my entire entertainment system was component. But moving forward, I believe component is as dead as S-Video.

I think the energy would have better been served on future focused projects (like OSSC, N64 HDMI, HiDef NES, etc).

[FinalBaton]

I think this is aimed more towards casual gamers who have, or will hunt down, a consumer CRT with component inputs. Not a professional CRT monitor.

For someone who only plans to connect 2, or 3 consoles max, this can be a nice solution I think (providing that the RGB to YPbPr converter in this is of good quality, of course). And I'm sure that a good number of people is interested in doing this. Not everyone is gaming-obsessed like us on this forum, and have 8 and more retro consoles hooked up to a CRT. Some folk will just want to dust off the old Super Nintendo and call it a day.

But anyone who plan on connecting lots of consoles should look into a standalone RGB to YPbPr converter box plus SCART cables, IMO. This will actually be cheaper in the long run.

But overall this is an interesting product for a certain demographic, I think. The price is fine too (if they keep it at $35).
Will depend wether the RGB to YPbPr conversion is of very good quality, as I said before.

[Guspaz]

Guspaz: SNES Mini is a lot more common than you think. I've done a boat load of RGB + CSYNC enablement mods on them for customers. Yes, the SNES model 1 will support this device, but the mini (which puts out the best RGB signal) will not. So I did not say anything false about that. More info here: http://retrorgb.com/snesversioncompare.html

You've done a boat load of RGB mods for the SNES Mini because the regular SNES doesn't *need* an RGB mod... The SNES Mini was released more than a *year* after the N64 was released, and was only sold for 2 years (of the 8 year NA SNES lifespan). They sold a fair number of them, but quite a small amount compared to the SNES as a whole. It only hit the market long past the SNES' prime. One need only look at the relative number of SNES Mini to regular SNES sold on eBay to see.

Frankly, I don't see the purpose of these cables. Sticking to CSYNC RGB will give customers a more flexible solution. People can connect to PVM/BVM using RGB. If they decide to upgrade from CRT technology to HDTV technology (using XRGB Mini or the up and coming community scalar http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ossc.html) then they can continue to use the same RGB cables.

Enthusiasts like us have PVMs. We probably represent a fraction of a percent. The vast majority of people out there who have a SNES have a modern HDTV, maybe an old consumer CRT, and certainly don't want to pay $400+ for a confusing upscaler box. But a $35 plug-and-play cable? Sure. They'll go for that.

Component video does not provide the same video quality as RGB.

Not really true (for these specific consoles/cables). My Life in Gaming's testing with prototypes of the HD Retrovision cables show that the difference in quality is indistinguishable, even when fed to a framemeister and blown up. There is probably a technical reduction in quality, but if nobody can see it, it's not really important.

It is not as flexible as RGB. A lot of 2015+ HDTV's have lost the component connector (and those that have it, most don't support 240p or do poor job of scaling 240p to 1080p or 4k) I guess I just don't understand the fascination of investing in dead technology.

I love component. From 2006 to 2014 my entire entertainment system was component. But moving forward, I believe component is as dead as S-Video.

RGB isn't flexible, it's completely useless and unsupported for the normal person. They don't have any TV that supports RGB. Only enthusiasts have PVMs or super expensive scalers.

Furthermore, component is still present on essentially every HDTV sold today. Sometimes they use a small included adapter to what looks like a 3.5mm jack. I recently checked, and every single Samsung HDTV that I could find that was currently sold still had component cables, and they're one of the most popular brands. A spot check right now of TVs from a few brands sold at BestBuy/Amazon (Toshiba, Vizio, Sony, LG, Sylvania) all have component inputs. I can't actually find any televisions that *DON'T* support component. Even the small 24" Vizio for $200 CAD has component. Can you provide some examples of an HDTV that does not support component? A feature present on every single television does not seem dead to me. And if it's present on every single television sold today, then that means it's present on the televisions people already own.

Now, S-Video, I agree with you. And that's why these cables are so useful. When S-Video was on televisions, then it was easy to say "Your SNES supports s-video, just buy such a cable and you'll get pretty good quality." But now, their televisions don't have s-video, but they do have component.

240p support is also a good point, but that's a problem no matter what input you're using. Everybody is using composite video on their HDTV today, because that's the best quality input that the SNES or Genesis has that their HDTV supports. Not every HDTV will support 240p over component, and not every one of those that do support it will do a good job upscaling it, but some do. Samsung televisions apparently do a good job. HD Retrovision has been building a compatibility list although they've not updated it terribly recently:

http://www.hdretrovision.com/240p/

The important note is, the first column is the important one if you're comparing to composite, because the problems will be there regardless with their current composite connection. The proper support for 240p processing is less common, but it seems like most (all?) Samsung TVs support it, and they're a very popular brand.

I think the energy would have better been served on future focused projects (like OSSC, N64 HDMI, HiDef NES, etc).

And they are planning to work on such a thing, their HDMIzer is intended to be similar to the OSSC, but more flexible. They're planning to support more inputs, and they're planning some interesting signal processing algorithms, with the intention of building a profile of the signal differences between the 1CHIP and older SNES such that they can produce an upscaled SNES image that looks like it's from a 1CHIP even when it's an older unit. Heck, perhaps they'll build upon the OSSC instead of starting from scratch, who knows.

The thing is, that sort of product is a heck of a lot more work than a SNES component video cable. Just look at how much work Marqs has put into the OSSC, and then imagine the extra work that would have been required if he had added support for a bunch more inputs, and VGA output, and support for low-latency image processing, and so on. That's a big project, and so SNES/Genesis component cables was a much more reasonable first project.

EDIT: The eBay search numbers:

"Super nintendo console" = 876 listings
"console" in Video Game Console "Nintendo SNES" platform section = 439 listings
"super nintendo mini console" = 86 listings, but most of them are cellphone covers, there are actually only 40 consoles listed.

In other words, the SNES Mini appears to represent roughly between 5% and 10% of the SNES sold on eBay.

[leonk]

All the power to them with this cable. I personally don't think many will sell. Nowhere the volume of cheap SNES rgb scart cables sell on eBay and other online stores. You and I both live in Canada, where we were robbed of rgb support. But most forum members here can go to the local dump and find a ton of CRTs that support RGB SCART input.

So focusing on the North American market, taking top notch video quality out of the equation (as people that spend $$$ on console mods like the NESRGB tend to also own an XRGB mini or PVM) and only looking at the casual gamer, the ones I speak to that want to connect only NES, SNES or Genesis to their HDTV, have decent video quality, play their carts and use original controllers .. Most tend to just purchase a retron 5 (it's cheaper than 2 of these cables, and has a much better spousal approval factor) or just stick to using composite.

So the market this is targeting is what? People that want better quality, but ok with a stack of consoles and component switcher? Are ok with 27"+ regular CRT in their home? Or decided to not just settle with using composite video? (A lot choose this option and are just ok with it). I'd be shocked if this market segment represents >5% of all active SNES/Genesis retro gamers.

Just personal observation from speaking to local gamers on FB groups as well as local retro trade shows the past few years.

As for component, I've seen the demise of this standard these past few years.. TV's changing support from multiple connectors down to 1, adapter, and many of them in CES had none. AV receivers that will upscale component to 480 only on their single input (Onkyo all do this now - eg launch Xbox 360 that does 720p/1080i over components gets scaled to 480p) to hdmi. It's not a good time to invest into component when it comes to HDTV.

[accaris]

All the power to them with this cable. I personally don't think many will sell. Nowhere the volume of cheap SNES rgb scart cables sell on eBay and other online stores. You and I both live in Canada, where we were robbed of rgb support. But most forum members here can go to the local dump and find a ton of CRTs that support RGB SCART input.

This cable is going to sell like hotcakes when people start to find out what it does. It's already in the factory and rolling off the assembly line.

Someone wanting good video out of SNES or Genesis is looking at spending hundreds of dollars at minimum. I'm sure there are tons of retro gamers who know all about the Framemeister but can't afford to buy one. This cable is for them.

CRTs are on their way out. I used to see ten a day on craigslist and now it's like one a week. Goodwills in my area are drying up; I haven't seen a Trinitron in a long time. Eventually gamers will be stuck with LED and when that happens, solutions like the HD Retrovision will be the best option.

[leonk]

Let's not fool people here. Using this cable on an SNES 1, hooked to your HDTV will NOT give you the same video quality as an XRGB mini (or low lag performance) It will give you better than composite (if your TV has support).

I always strive to educate potential customers, give them options at every price point and let them decide. Time will tell how well this will sell.

[Guspaz]

These cables would possibly provide lower latency than a Framemeister, as the framemeister's upscaling process would add ~1.5 frames of lag on top of the TV's built-in lag. This would of course depend on if the TV has the same amount of lag regardless of input resolution. That's true on some televisions, but not others. This is all particular to HDTVs, of course. Things are different on a consumer CRT, which are admittedly probably uncommon these days.

Personally, considering the quality ought to be the same as RGB for displays with good 240p handling (IIRC MLiG showed side-by-side comparisons), I believe this will simplify my PVM setup with respect to switches (SCART switches are rare and super expensive), and simpler in terms of looping through the output of the PVM to my projector (33ms) for couch gaming. I may grab the OSSC at some point, but the projector probably doesn't support 15KHz RGBs. I do know that it supports 15 KHz over component, since I took the sync-on-luma signal from my PS1's RGB cable and fed it to the projector's component luma input, which displayed it just fine.

Right now, the framemeister is absurdly expensive (Solaris Japan is estimating $525.77 CAD), and in many cases costs more than the television people want to play their consoles on. A $35 USD cable is a pretty decent way to get a big improvement in image quality without spending more than five hundred bucks on a Framemeister.

That said, $35 was the minimum kickstarter price: I expect the "retail" price to be higher. At the very least, their kickstarter shows that they have already sold slightly more than one thousand (1,005 specifically) cables. That's not a bad start for a niche retro gaming product.

[Fudoh]

These cables would possibly provide lower latency than a Framemeister, as the framemeister's upscaling process would add ~1.5 frames of lag on top of the TV's built-in lag.

only very few TVs will actualy see 240p as a progressive resolution. 99% of the TVs will treat this like any other 15khz signal run it through the full deinterlacing processing chain and that usually takes more time than the FM uses to process the signal.

[leonk]

I've watched a majority of the MLiG YouTube videos. The production quality is good but some of the information they provide is not accurate.

I've had the opportunity to not only test but also install all the HDMI solutions (The last Hidef NES to sell on eBay was my prototype board that Jason sent me for evaluation) as well as multiple XRGB mini setups. Personally, I test everything on my 20" Sony PVM but have done an RGB input mod to a Sony 27" CRT (that already had component input)

In all these cases, I can clearly see the difference between component and RGB. Gauging component vs RGB on a YouTube video is not accurate.

As I said before. It will be better than composite but not as good as the multiple RGB solutions that already exist.

[bobrocks95]

On another note component switches are infinitely easier to get here in the US than SCART switches, and it's much easier to get very high quality ones. If I hadn't already fully fallen down the RGB rabbit hole I would have definitely sprung for these cables earlier on my journey.

The stage where I bought S-Video cables would have been replaced with these component cables, and I'm not sure I'd have felt the need to buy anything else.

[FinalBaton]

Here's a practical exemple that I feel represent the potential customer pool for the HD Retrovision.

2 friends of mine are nostalgic towards the SNES but they haven't played it since their childhood. So RIGHT NOW they have NO retrogaming setup. I plan on recommanding the HD Retrovison to them, and picking up a smallish CRT with component inputs. Absolutely. This makes a ton of sense for them. It's gonna be cheaper than picking up an RGB to YPbPr transcoder and a SCART cable and it will give them a good picture quality.

So yeah, I believe that they're targeting people in NA who have YET to get into retrogaming on a CRT, and who want to spend minimal bucks. Remains to be seen how big this market will be. My hunch is that it will do fairly well.

[FinalBaton]

Eventually gamers will be stuck with LED and when that happens, solutions like the HD Retrovision will be the best option.

I disagree with that part of your post. As much as I think the HD Retrovision makes sense on a CRT, I think that buying it with the intent of connecting it direct into a flat panel HDTV is a bad choice. Few HDTVs recognize 240p signals as such, for the others this will give you lag and a picture that's hardly anything exciting.

[Edward_Tz]

I have no intention of buying these cables.

Their videos are misleading. They show these cables on modern TVs and talk them up as something like a $35 Framemeister.

They’re just a cable with a RGB to component transcoder inside. Why not just make the transcoder so it can be a universal thing? That’s something I could be interested in since the prices of those things are quite high outside of the ones from china.

[FinalBaton]

They’re just a cable with a RGB to component transcoder inside.

wich is great if you plan on playing on a crt in NA

I didn't get the "misleading" vibe you talk about when I watched their vid, maybe I didn't pay attention. To me they were clearly marketing this for use on a CRT. I'll go check it again


EDIT : checked the MLIG vid again and I have to agree with your point : they do market it for use with HDTVs, even going as far as saying that "old CRTs are cumbersome and nobody can fix them anymore". This is a bad move on their part, I think they should clearly state that their product is optimised for CRT use.

[Edward_Tz]

But why buy multiple transcoders when you can just have multiple rgb cables that go to a transcoder?

Beharbros has talked about making one after the Garo gets released. That seems like it will be the best option if it happens.

[FinalBaton]

But why buy multiple transcoders when you can just have multiple rgb cables that go to a transcoder?

I mentionned just this in my first post (#6).

But for someone who plan to only hook up 1 or 2 consoles however, they will save money.

[Guspaz]

But why buy multiple transcoders when you can just have multiple rgb cables that go to a transcoder?

Beharbros has talked about making one after the Garo gets released. That seems like it will be the best option if it happens.

Because good RGB cables aren't free, and then that requires a SCART switch, and SCART switches are crazy expensive, up to 5x the price of component video switches.

As an example, the gscartsw is a fantastic product that from all accounts works great. It also costs around $410 CAD shipped. A monoprice component video switch costs $21 USD, probably twice that shipped in CAD.

This is not to disparage the gscartsw at all. It's simply to show how expensive scart switches are compared to component video switches. Except for the small used market, all scart switches must be imported from overseas, leading to expensive shipping and currency conversions, and then scart switches themselves are a lot more expensive to implement than component because there are a lot more pins that need to get handled.

If you have, say, four consoles that you want to get into a component input, the HDR solution looks like:

HDR cables: $35 x 4 = $140 USD
4:1 component switch: $21 USD
Component video cable: $5 USD
Total: $166 USD

SCART solution looks like this:

Console SCART cables: $77 USD
SCART-to-SCART cable for colour converter: $15 USD (estimate)
gscartsw: $270 USD (US doesn't do tax, right?)
CSY2100 RGB to YPbPr converter: $100 USD
Component video cable: $5 USD
Total: $467 USD

It's also confusing and complex. People are familiar with component video. They've used it, they know what it is. SCART is some weird connector that they've never seen before, and to use it they need to import a special switch from overseas, and then they need to research what a good SCART-to-Component converter is, and they need to take mind of SCART input vs output cables, and then they need to pay several times as much...

Or they can just grab some component cables for their consoles, and grab a cheap component switch from the store, and it's just much easier.

If you're an enthusiast, you'll go the extra mile, perhaps. But we here represent a tiny portion of people who want to play retro games.

[Edward_Tz]

Because good RGB cables aren't free, and then that requires a SCART switch, and SCART switches are crazy expensive, up to 5x the price of component video switches.

Going to snip the quote there.

You don't need scart connectors for RGB. They could just make the cables with BNC, RCA, or a de15 connector(s). I don't think cheap switchboxes are their goal here. Not like cheap switchboxes for any of those connectors are universally good or better. They're just more accessible.

Your price comparison is assuming the final product is actually of good quality. These cables could be cheap for a reason. And they are cheap. $35 for a component cable that has a transcoder in it is dirt cheap.

[Guspaz]

Using something other than SCART cables for RGB would make things even harder, because as problematic as RGB SCART is, it's even harder to find converters/adapters/switches for a 6-wire RGBsLR BNC cable...

You're right that the goal of HDR isn't cheap switches. It's to provide a simple drop-in replacement for the current composite video connections that people are using. Connected your console to your TV by composite? If your TV supports 240p over component, just swap it out for a component cable and get an immediate boost in image quality.

$35 for a component cable with a transcoder in it is cheap, yes. They're being manufactured in bulk in China using a custom built circuit. The CSY 2100 clones are much cheaper than the real thing, with the same quality of conversion, with the only problem being that they tend to arrive without having been calibrated, requiring the user to crack it open and play with the pots, which is something that HDR is taking care of in advance.

This is a shot of what I believe is the final PCB (for the Genesis version anyhow), which goes inline in the cable inside an overwrap:



Stuff is cheap in China. AFAIK the low level chips doing the work aren't expensive either. They're also doing this in reasonable bulk since they already have over a thousand pre-orders.

[Edward_Tz]

Hey I'm not the target audience for this thing. I want a rgb to component transcoder box that isn't super expensive. Something like my Audio Authority 9A60A but can handle RGBHV and RGB S.


We'll have to wait to see what the real quality of the cables are. I'll be very surprised if they're not using no name caps and there's not issues with the shielding for the audio lines.

[leonk]

EDIT : checked the MLIG vid again and I have to agree with your point : they do market it for use with HDTVs, even going as far as saying that "old CRTs are cumbersome and nobody can fix them anymore". This is a bad move on their part, I think they should clearly state that their product is optimised for CRT use.

There's a lot of common mistakes that I've noticed in those videos. I wonder if it's bias, or not enough experience. But I guess they're better than nothing.. I just hope they don't end up steering people down the wrong path using misinformation.

I can list a handful off the top of my head, but lets try and stick to the topic here.

[Guspaz]

Well, there certainly aren't any electrolytic caps in the thing, so any ceramic caps they have on there are too small to identify.

Here is a snippet (partial) from a recent update that specifically addressed shielding on the audio lines:

Back in a previous post, we had mentioned that we received separate unassembled pieces for us to evaluate. While most of those checked out, we initially found an issue with there being too much noise crossing over from the video into the audio lines creating a noticeable 15kHz buzz and other static during periods of silence. Our manufacturer was very responsive to our request and quickly remedied it by adding foil to the copper spiral around each individual wire to maximize the shielding coverage. The final cable assembly we received last week used this improved shielding method and our tests performed even better than we expected. In fact, this was the best performing cable we have tested to date. Below, you can readily see these improvements, most notably how the brightness in the horizontal line around 15kHz was reduced between samples. This also matched our subjective listening tests as well.

[Guspaz]

There's a lot of common mistakes that I've noticed in those videos. I wonder if it's bias, or not enough experience. But I guess they're better than nothing.. I just hope they don't end up steering people down the wrong path using misinformation.

I can list a handful off the top of my head, but lets try and stick to the topic here.

They're not experts on the subject, and rely on a panel of experts to inform and fact-check their information and research. If you notice problems with their videos, I'm sure they'd be grateful for feedback. Their preferred contact mechanism for unsolicited messages appears to be private youtube messages, or twitter for short stuff. They're quite responsive.

[leonk]

4:1 component switch: $21 USD
Component video cable: $5 USD

I disagree with above. You're not comparing apples to apples.

Good component switcher (like the Pelican digital switchers) cost as much as good SCART switchers. You need to not only switch video, but also audio. If switching audio, you need to be able to switch RF digital as well as TOSLINK (in case you want to add PS2, XBOX, XBOX360 support). You also need to cleanly amplify component video, just the same way good SCART switchers do. Good, unamplified SCART switchers, can be had for $50CDN from amazon.co.uk (I just purchased one in November for a friend)

Good component cables cost as much as good SCART cables (I know I paid >$60 for my 6' Belkin component cable that is as thick as a garden hose) Again, component is audio only. You need to add support for video.

Let me ask you something different. I don't have an axe to grind here. I wish the inventor all the best is bringing this product to market. I'm just approaching this from the perspective of an AV enthusiast and console modder. Why the hostility? Are you one of the backers?

[Gered]

SCART solution looks like this:

Console SCART cables: $77 USD
SCART-to-SCART cable for colour converter: $15 USD (estimate)
gscartsw: $270 USD (US doesn't do tax, right?)
CSY2100 RGB to YPbPr converter: $100 USD
Component video cable: $5 USD
Total: $467 USD

If you're going to do pricing comparisons you should at least do a little bit more research to find accurate pricing and even some alternatives rather then focusing on the most expensive options.

Console SCART cables: $77 USD

I have no idea where you found this. retro_console_accessories charges $28.02 CAD + $14.03 CAD for SNES RGB SCART (CSYNC) cables for example. Very similar pricing for Genesis, PS1, and Sega Saturn cables. Even Micomsoft's new cable offerings are cheaper then your pricing.

gscartsw: $270 USD

I have no idea why you'd limit yourself to this option if you're complaining about price. There are others, you just gotta do some searching on ebay or other places. As an example at the super cheap end, I picked up this cheap looking 5-way switch for about $15 CAD (+ shipping) early last year and have noticed absolutely no signal degradation with it and works great.

CSY2100 RGB to YPbPr converter: $100 USD

I picked up the CSY2100 clone for $65 CAD last summer. Still can see it on ebay for this much. It works great, though I don't use it in my retro gaming setup nowadays.

[Guspaz]

4:1 component switch: $21 USD
Component video cable: $5 USD

I disagree with above. You're not comparing apples to apples.

Good component switcher (like the Pelican digital switchers) cost as much as good SCART switchers. You need to not only switch video, but also audio. If switching audio, you need to be able to switch RF digital as well as TOSLINK (in case you want to add PS2, XBOX, XBOX360 support). You also need to cleanly amplify component video, just the same way good SCART switchers do. Good, unamplified SCART switchers, can be had for $50CDN from amazon.co.uk (I just purchased one in November for a friend)

The $21 component switch that I used for the price is a powered/amplified unit with support for both audio and video and digital coax audio from Monoprice. But fair enough, it's not a high-end switch. I bought a new Audio Authority 4:1 component video switcher. Amplified/powered, auto switching, with support for component video, analog audio, TOSLINK, or digital coax. It cost me $100 CAD shipped. That's still less than half the price-per-input as the gscartsw, or a quarter the price if you don't need 8 inputs.

Good component cables cost as much as good SCART cables (I know I paid >$60 for my 6' Belkin component cable that is as thick as a garden hose) Again, component is audio only. You need to add support for video.

Belkin is known for making budget (and in my experience barely working) network products... Are you sure you don't mean Belden cables? They're known for producing high quality albeit expensive stuff.

Monoprice's component cables (which are 5-wire, they include audio) use shielded RG-59 coax, which is already crazy overkill (it annoys me how stiff shielded solid-core coax is, coax should be for longer runs, not short cables like this), and they charge three dollars and something cents for a 3 foot cable. I rounded it up to $5 to account for shipping and different lengths or whatnot.

Let me ask you something different. I don't have an axe to grind here. I wish the inventor all the best is bringing this product to market. I'm just approaching this from the perspective of an AV enthusiast and console modder. Why the hostility? Are you one of the backers?

Your original post basically said they'd failed and were frauds, so... that did indeed get my back up a bit. I'm not a backer, although I would have been if I hadn't missed the kickstarter. I've just been following their progress closely, so I've seen how much work they've been putting into getting this right, and it's frustrating to see people disparaging them with the sort of things you put in your original post.

It's one thing to say you don't think it's the right solution to the problem. That is something that is open to debate, but at least it's a respectable opinion. But the kind of stuff you were saying? That their kickstarter failed and they had some sort of conspiracy to keep secrets to scam their customers? That's totally different.