PS2 @ 240p

[Fudoh]

These are just interfaces - there's conversion happening. If you need s-video output, you have input s-video as well.

Just enter "s-video bnc" on google. I see dozens of matching output cables.

[FinalBaton]

I didn't notice any lag. I see no difference in that regard between the 480i feed and the 240p one *shrugs*

[azmun]

These are just interfaces - there's conversion happening. If you need s-video output, you have input s-video as well.

Just enter "s-video bnc" on google. I see dozens of matching output cables.

There are six BNC female plugs labeled RGBHVS that output Extron RGB 192. I'm guessing the appropriate ones to get are the s-video male to 2 BNC male breakeout cables http://www.svideo.com/svideo2bnc.html ? But where do I plug those 2 BNC male plugs out of the six female ones?

[Fudoh]

But where do I plug those 2 BNC male plugs out of the six female ones?

usually luma to G and chroma to R. But eventually that's up to your input adapter. Just luma on G is mandatory.

[Guspaz]

Clarification on why that's the case: S-Video is sync-on-luma, so you need to use RGsB (sync-on-green) so that the sync is on an input the device will expect it.

[BazookaBen]

I had an issue when I was testing s-video on my Extron where the picture would lose sync randomly every minute or so. Wonder if I could fix it by terminating the unused plug (which would be B or R)

[azmun]

usually luma to G and chroma to R. But eventually that's up to your input adapter. Just luma on G is mandatory.

Thanks again for the heads up. The next (and hopefully final) thing I need to figure out are the DIP switches. I see a total of six:

Level
SOG (sync on green)
Serration pulses
DDSP
No Mon
M. audio

These all sound greek to me. Might be quite a trial and error task to figure out the proper combination, except for the last item (choosing between stereo and mono won't be relevant here).

Clarification on why that's the case: S-Video is sync-on-luma, so you need to use RGsB (sync-on-green) so that the sync is on an input the device will expect it.

OK, thanks. So I guess I'll need to switch this on. Sync-on-green will proxy for sync-on-luma. But what about chroma, is this really optional?

[Guspaz]

Not optional, I think Fudoh meant it didn't matter what input you used for it, and that which input depended on the adapters being used.

[Fudoh]

You enable SoG. The DDSP switch is used to switch between 480i and 240p. All others are usually left off.

[BazookaBen]

Yeah, if you buy an s-video to VGA input adapter, you'll have find out whether chroma is going to B or R. I've never purchased such an adapter, I just made my own really quick out of some spare wires.

For all I know, some of the s-video to VGA adapters might not be wired the way you'd want them to for an Extron (luma on G, chroma on B or R).

[azmun]

Very much appreciated guys. Think I'm all set now. I've ordered all the components with a total damage of around $95 with shipping. Can't wait to see some of my favorite and classic games running the way it should have in the first place.

[BazookaBen]

Cool, let us know how it goes.

[azmun]

All three packages arrived yesterday in my local post office and I just ran the system today. Unfortunately, the best I can get is a black and white screen that switches between blank and garbled images. Don't know if there's a problem with my:

1)BNC to s-video plug
I've tried all combinations of connecting to R, G and B outputs

2)Extron RGB 192 interface
I've set my dip switch all off except for SoG and DDSP

3)s-video to VGA converter
I've not done much testing here apart from pressing a button that switches between AV, SV and PC (video, separate video and PC) but there seems to be few other options such as resolution and refresh rate of pictures.

Edit: OK, I did a bit more testing and it seems my s-video to VGA converter does not work. I tried using my PS2 on two computer LCD screens/monitors and all I get is a blank blue screen. Don't understand why or how this device claims to convert s-video signal from game consoles to VGA output since I'm not getting any results. Would very much appreciate help or advice on getting one that functions properly.

Hope I didn't purchase anything that is defective and can resolve whatever issue it is that is preventing me from getting these components to work.

[FinalBaton]

Is your S-video/VGA one of those little box such as these :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TV-BNC-Composit ... SweW5VD7-z

If so, those do VGA to S-video, but not the other way around. That might be the problem right there.


And their variant that do S-video to VGA don't go down to 15kHz. The lower resolution they output is 800x600. They will upscale your signal.

[azmun]

That's exactly the unit I got. The lowest resolution and frequency allowed is 800x600 60 hz. It's has 3 inputs (s-video among em) and 1 output (VGA) so I don't understand why it'd go the other way around. I know there are other very similar converters that goes VGA to s-video and thought I was careful with my purchase. The instructions / manual even explains the "input interface can be connected to PS2/game console etc."

Now if indeed I bought the wrong converter and require another one, can you recomend one that explicitly allows 15 kHz? Also what resolution is needed please?

[FinalBaton]

I'm guessing that was the problem. The lowest your converter go is 800x600p 60, but in your case you need lower than that : namely 480i 60 (aka 15kHz).

I don't know of a converter that will do that off the top of my head, but I'll do some research and get back to you

[Fudoh]

@azmun: you don't need any converter. All you need is an adapter plug. Maybe something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/301917197759 along with a BNC to HD15 breakout adapter http://www.ebay.com/itm/221047412421

[BazookaBen]

Yep, buy the two things Fudoh linked and you'll be set.

That s-video/VGA box thing has all sorts of IC's that do all sorts of crap (like upscaling) that you don't need. All you need are adapters that simply re-route the Y/C signals to new types of plugs.

[azmun]

Thank you very much for that info. I was initially confused with the term VGA as it can be ambiguous. Now I realize it's just a connector we want to pass thru the s-video signal, and not a resolution to convert or upscale to. In any case, I've just ordered something similar to Fudoh's suggestion and I hope this will do the trick: http://www.svideo.com/fsvto2mbnc.html and Edited: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251752038582

[BazookaBen]

Those should work. The websites look a little sketchy, though. Keep us updated.

[azmun]

Was able to test my package today. I'm glad to finally get the system working--thanks to you guys! For awhile, I almost thought this would be a failed and expensive experiment. Not so confident to say it's worth the trouble or money spent but there is a subtle improvement. It's not as dramatic as what I was hoping for or expecting but still can't complain. Basically, I ran my PS2 using three discs: Street Fighter Alpha Anthology, Taito Legends 2 and Namco Museum 50th Anniversary.

I base how 240p should look like using the following as benchmark:
1-Saturn Street Fighter Alpha 2
2-Dreamcast Street Fighter 3: Third Strike in non-interlaced mode
3-Fantasy Zone Complete Collection in special 240p mode

In these three games, the scanlines are very prominent and the graphics sharp and crisp. Perhaps it's a bit unrealistic and unfair to expect de-interlacing to match the result of games running low-res natively? In any case, I'm overall satisfied with the outcome just not sure if I can recommend to others the marginal improvement in graphics.

[FinalBaton]

In my setup it works great

Here's with the line offset on :



And with it off :



It does exactly what it's supposed to do : it introduces scanlines and gets rid almost entirely of the flicker and the combing artifacts.

Does it not perform that well in your setup?

If so then I'm sorry for drumming your interest in a product that didn't meet your expectations

[azmun]

Oh wow, I might need to do more tests. Those scanlines become very obvious. Are you passing through an s-video signal? In any case, either my display isn't responding the same way or my Extron RGB 192V is faulty. In fact, I find difficulty spotting differences in image/video quality when switching DDSP as well as SOG between on and off.

[BazookaBen]

Oh wow, I might need to do more tests. Those scanlines become very obvious. Are you passing through an s-video signal? In any case, either my display isn't responding the same way or my Extron RGB 192V is faulty. In fact, I find difficulty spotting differences in image/video quality when switching DDSP as well as SOG between on and off.

"Faulty" is the wrong word, because Extron RGB's weren't designed for what we're doing. The were more for office and classroom use and hooking up projectors and what not. This whole 240p thing is a happy accident.

My guess is that you just need a more versatile Extron RGB, one with Vertical-shift control. The results from my 201rxi are usually pretty bad until I shift the picture vertically about 4 or 5 lines.

[FinalBaton]

Oh wow, I might need to do more tests. Those scanlines become very obvious. Are you passing through an s-video signal? In any case, either my display isn't responding the same way or my Extron RGB 192V is faulty. In fact, I find difficulty spotting differences in image/video quality when switching DDSP as well as SOG between on and off.

I'm using RGB. But I don't think it matters in obtaining 240p out of 480i (but I might be wrong).

On my Extron (580 xi), I need to flip 2 switches on : Comp Sync and DDSP
Flipping only DDSP won't give me scanlines

But maybe other interfaces need only DDSP flipped on to achieve this, I don't know.

[azmun]

I've tested my system in three CRT sets and still not getting the scanlines. Both of you seem to have more advanced models. If there isn't anything wrong with my Extron RGB 192V, then perhaps what I've got is a very basic and entry level device that can't produce em beloved scanlines. Otherwise can't think of any other reason why they aren't being generated.

[FinalBaton]

I've tested my system in three CRT sets and still not getting the scanlines. Both of you seem to have more advanced models. If there isn't anything wrong with my Extron RGB 192V, then perhaps what I've got is a very basic and entry level device that can't produce em beloved scanlines. Otherwise can't think of any other reason why they aren't being generated.

Well, if we want to look at the positives :

If you got it at decent price, than you can certainly get that money back (or even a bit more) by reselling it on Ebay

I guess what I can suggest is to order a 580 xi, since I have confirmed that this particular model works

But before that, make sure you try all combinations of switches on your 192V. just to be safe

[BazookaBen]

I've tested my system in three CRT sets and still not getting the scanlines. Both of you seem to have more advanced models. If there isn't anything wrong with my Extron RGB 192V, then perhaps what I've got is a very basic and entry level device that can't produce em beloved scanlines. Otherwise can't think of any other reason why they aren't being generated.

Let me 100% clear: you need a an Extron RGB with vertical shift control. That's the only way I've been able to get clear scanlines with my Extron, by shifting a few lines up or down (usually up). Thankfully, there are plenty models with this feature.

[FinalBaton]

Let me 100% clear: you need a an Extron RGB with vertical shift control. That's the only way I've been able to get clear scanlines with my Extron, by shifting a few lines up or down (usually up). Thankfully, there are plenty models with this feature.

Is that feature actually called "vertical shift" on your model?

[BazookaBen]

Is that feature actually called "vertical shift" on your model?

.
Whoops, no, just looked it up online (201rxi) they call it vertical centering. It might say v-shift on the little display when you're turning it, haven't used it in a few months though.