PS2 @ 240p

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Elbaid
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PS2 @ 240p

Post by Elbaid »

As much as I enjoy running PS2 games at insane resolutions on my LCD via emulation, I'd like to try some on my Sony PVM at 240p, but the only game I know that runs at this res is ICO. Can anyone think of other PS2 games which run at a similar res?
I'm avoiding 480p as the flicker is torturous. I understand some games may run at 640x480 with line doubling, so I could force these to 240p without losing detail, but not sure which games support this.

Thanks
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Fudoh
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by Fudoh »

Can anyone think of other PS2 games which run at a similar res?
Disgaea
DoDonPachi DaiOujou (in tate only)
ESPGaluda (in tate only)
Gunbird 2 (in tate only)
many of the Sega Ages titles, e.g. Galaxy Force, Gunstar Heroes, Wonderboy Collection, Fantasy Zone 2DX etc...
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Thomago
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by Thomago »

Shadow of Destiny
La Pucelle Tactics
Phantom Brave

Actually there was a thread about this a while ago: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55420
NightSprinter
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by NightSprinter »

Something not mentioned with MMX Collection and Gradius III from the Gradius III and IV pack is some of the menus still run at 480i (as well as the anime cutscenes in the PS1 games of the X collection). So if using a FrameMeister or an HDTV that's slow to switch resolutions, that could wreak potential havoc. In fact, for Tekken 1 and 2 on the Tekken 5 disc, I wouldn't be surprised if it did something similar to Virtua Fighter 1 and on the Saturn (where stuff like the character select and Vs. screens are one resolution, and the fighting is another).
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Guspaz
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by Guspaz »

He's on a PVM, though, not a Framemeister, so that's not a problem.
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antron
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by antron »

Many games can be patched to force 240p. Unfortunately the good ones (like mushi) still have a blur filter over them.
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BazookaBen
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by BazookaBen »

You can also force games to 240p with GS Mode Selector. That's what I do for Mushi.

Other games crash with GSM (like Street Fighter 3rd Strike). In those cases, I use an Extron RGB.
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austin532
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by austin532 »

NightSprinter wrote:Something not mentioned with MMX Collection and Gradius III from the Gradius III and IV pack is some of the menus still run at 480i (as well as the anime cutscenes in the PS1 games of the X collection). So if using a FrameMeister or an HDTV that's slow to switch resolutions, that could wreak potential havoc. In fact, for Tekken 1 and 2 on the Tekken 5 disc, I wouldn't be surprised if it did something similar to Virtua Fighter 1 and on the Saturn (where stuff like the character select and Vs. screens are one resolution, and the fighting is another).
Gradius III runs at 240p except for the Stage Select, Extra Mode, and Options screens. Tekken 1 & 2 both run at 240p the entire game which is odd as they are supposed to run at 480p.
Framemeister 240p scanline settings: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=9600
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Fudoh
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by Fudoh »

You can also force games to 240p with GS Mode Selector. That's what I do for Mushi.
when was this introduced ? I have GSM installed on my memory card, but I've never seen an option to boot into 240p.
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BazookaBen
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by BazookaBen »

Fudoh wrote:
You can also force games to 240p with GS Mode Selector. That's what I do for Mushi.
when was this introduced ? I have GSM installed on my memory card, but I've never seen an option to boot into 240p.
I think it's not in the latest version. It's in the older builds, back when the UI was more complicated and had a lot more options. The option is NTSC NI (non-interlaced)
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FinalBaton
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by FinalBaton »

You can play all ps2 games in 240p on a CRT using the Extron RGB interface trick :

Run any ps2 game in 480i and send the signal through an Extron RGB interface. When hitting the right switches this will transform 480i into 240p(exposing the even scanlines during all 60 frames and never exposing the odd lines). It's not perfect (picture will sometime trembles a bit in cerain spots) but it's still extremely solid. Works very very well, the result is damn sharp.

This is how I play Street Fighter Alpha 3 in 240p on my CRT now; via the ps2 SFA Anthology, using the trick above.
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
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azmun
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by azmun »

FinalBaton wrote:You can play all ps2 games in 240p on a CRT using the Extron RGB interface trick :

Run any ps2 game in 480i and send the signal through an Extron RGB interface. When hitting the right switches this will transform 480i into 240p(exposing the even scanlines during all 60 frames and never exposing the odd lines). It's not perfect (picture will sometime trembles a bit in cerain spots) but it's still extremely solid. Works very very well, the result is damn sharp.

This is how I play Street Fighter Alpha 3 in 240p on my CRT now; via the ps2 SFA Anthology, using the trick above.
Can you please expound on this some more? I find the filtered/upscaled graphics ugly in some cases and would finally love to see a solution and improvement to playing SFA Anthology, Namco Museum and Taito Legends on my PS2. The best my CRT will accommodate is composite and s-video (inputs on my SONY Trinitron XBR set).
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Fudoh
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by Fudoh »

You take any of the Extron interfaces ($10+ shipping) and you need two adapter cables to get your s-video signal in and out of them. The Extrons will accept 480i luma on the green/Y channel. They'll turn your 480i input into 240p by applying a line offset. Only works on CRTs.
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azmun
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by azmun »

Wow, $10 plus shipping is very reasonable! Sounds really simple but it's still quite daunting. There seems to be a huge variety and selection to choose from. Wonder if there are significant differences in quality. Most if not all models have inputs and outputs that are foreign to me. Would very much appreciate if you could please recommend or specify which adapter cables and/or particular Extron Interface models would be suitable. As an alternative, I can also have my PS2 feed the Extron device component or RGB via SCART if that would be better than s-video.
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Fudoh
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by Fudoh »

Getting the same to work for RGB (Scart or otherwise) is much more complicated and expensive.

S-Video and component is easy in comparion. Inputs on these is HD15 (as in VGA), output is through BNC.

Here's one that would be fine: http://www.ebay.com/itm/131736127461
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BazookaBen
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by BazookaBen »

I think it's important to get an Extron with vertical adjustment as well as horizontal. I find that I usually have to adjust the vertical position to get least-flickery picture.
Elbaid
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by Elbaid »

Thanks for the info, far more games than I expected, especially in the other similar thread
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austin532
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by austin532 »

The sad part is that's probably not all of them.
Framemeister 240p scanline settings: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=9600
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werk91
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by werk91 »

Fudoh wrote:You take any of the Extron interfaces ($10+ shipping) and you need two adapter cables to get your s-video signal in and out of them. The Extrons will accept 480i luma on the green/Y channel. They'll turn your 480i input into 240p by applying a line offset. Only works on CRTs.
Does this only apply for BVM/PVM CRTs ? I happen to have the output wired cable from RGC that works from my Extron to an LCD TV after I added a USB cable for 5V line but I remember that CRTs don't need the Pin 16 of the Scart powered. I'm thinking I could try it on the Trinitron to finally see the difference for SF 3rd Strike and the others.
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Fudoh
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by Fudoh »

Does this only apply for BVM/PVM CRTs ?
this applies to all TVs without digital processing (no linedoubling, no 100Hz, no Hi-Scan TVs etc).
I happen to have the output wired cable from RGC that works from my Extron to an LCD TV after I added a USB cable for 5V line but I remember that CRTs don't need the Pin 16 of the Scart powered. I'm thinking I could try it on the Trinitron to finally see the difference for SF 3rd Strike and the others.
same cable will work on the interface, BUT if you want to feed RGB you need clean sync (which the PS1/PS2 doesn't offer out of the box).
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werk91
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by werk91 »

I will give it a try with the Trinitron then. As for the clean sync it should be fine since I was planing of doing SyncStrike -> Extron RGB -> Sony TV
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noonan2678
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by noonan2678 »

BazookaBen wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
You can also force games to 240p with GS Mode Selector. That's what I do for Mushi.
when was this introduced ? I have GSM installed on my memory card, but I've never seen an option to boot into 240p.
I think it's not in the latest version. It's in the older builds, back when the UI was more complicated and had a lot more options. The option is NTSC NI (non-interlaced)
Would this work over a SCART cable? Any idea which version this was available in?

Thanks!
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BazookaBen
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by BazookaBen »

noonan2678 wrote:Would this work over a SCART cable? Any idea which version this was available in?

Thanks!
It should. It's version 0.2-something I think.

The main thread for it is here:

http://psx-scene.com/forums/f291/gs-mod ... ack-61808/

I think it is still in semi-active development
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bobrocks95
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by bobrocks95 »

If the option really is called NTSC (Non-Interlaced) then it's also available in the latest version, or at least the latest version included in OPL which should be 0.38 (I don't know if the stand-alone 0.38 and the OPL 0.38 are exactly the same or not).

This also inspired me to spend a couple more hours fiddling with GSM and I think I've officially given up on it. I should hook the PS2 up to the CRT and finally just concede that it's a 480i console and always will be.
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BazookaBen
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by BazookaBen »

Whoops, I thought "non-interlaced" mode was removed, thanks for the correction.
bobrocks95 wrote:This also inspired me to spend a couple more hours fiddling with GSM and I think I've officially given up on it. I should hook the PS2 up to the CRT and finally just concede that it's a 480i console and always will be.
Yeah, more games run into issues than not, whether it's the games with reduced horizontal size or halved vertical resolution, or ones that simply won't launch. Gradius V works perfectly at 480p though, it would be crime not to play it that way.
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noonan2678
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by noonan2678 »

I had started a spreadsheet with test results using GSM and HDLoader at different resolutions and with different scalers. I'll post it at some point and maybe will continue to add to it as well.

It is frustrating as there were lots of issues, but for the ones that it worked well for, it is well worth it. I recall Metal Slug Anthology (Collection) looking amazing using GSM @ 480p and through my Crystalio scaler.
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bobrocks95
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by bobrocks95 »

For every game that worked well I had 2 or 3 that didn't work at all whatsoever. I've spent days at a time over several years messing with it, and I just don't think it's worth any more headache. On the Gamecube, when you force 480p with Swiss, it just works 90% of the time, and gives you an image exactly like the game would look if it was native 480p.

PS2 games had too many behind-the-scenes tricks to squeeze performance out of an underpowered machine, with half-height back buffers, low horizontal res back-buffers, half-pixel offsets on the back buffer, some special page flipping function for cheaper 480i output, etc... The SDK recommended using most of them too, so most every developer chose at least one thing to do.
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azmun
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by azmun »

Fudoh wrote:Getting the same to work for RGB (Scart or otherwise) is much more complicated and expensive.

S-Video and component is easy in comparion. Inputs on these is HD15 (as in VGA), output is through BNC.

Here's one that would be fine: http://www.ebay.com/itm/131736127461
Thanks for the tip! I just need to find a listing with more reasonable international shipping rates. I hope it's safe to assume and preferable to get a component to VGA adapter than a s-video to VGA converter. Any suggestions where i can find a cable/adapter/converter from BNC (rgbhvs) to s-video? Lastly, I just want to confirm this will all result in a lag free experience.
BazookaBen wrote:I think it's important to get an Extron with vertical adjustment as well as horizontal. I find that I usually have to adjust the vertical position to get least-flickery picture.
Can you recommend any specific model with such feature? This may solve the "trembling picture" that FinalBaton alluded to in his earlier post.
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Fudoh
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by Fudoh »

I hope it's safe to assume and preferable to get a component to VGA adapter than a s-video to VGA converter.
If you input component your output will be component as well. Didn't you initally state your TV only offers composite and s-video ?
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azmun
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Re: PS2 @ 240p

Post by azmun »

Fudoh wrote:
I hope it's safe to assume and preferable to get a component to VGA adapter than a s-video to VGA converter.
If you input component your output will be component as well. Didn't you initally state your TV only offers composite and s-video ?
Yeah, the situation still holds. But I kinda got the impression Extron RGB would convert whatever signal coming in as VGA (be it s-video or component) and output as BNC. Problem of which i'm still clueless how to connect this output back to s-video.
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