Sega Dreamcast + Toro Box + Sony PVM-20L5

[aallgod]

Hi everyone,

First time poster -- Thanks in advance for reading. I am a bit of a newbie when it comes to some of the technical aspects of video output, so I apologize ahead of time for repetitive questions. I recently acquired a Sony PVM-20L5 and am looking to hook up many of my old video game consoles to it. My modded SNES mini looks great on this monitor, and I am now undergoing a process to get my Sega Dreamcast on it as well. As of right now, my chained set up to getting my DC to the PVM is as such:

DC --> Toro Box --> Scart to Scart RGB cable (purchased on ebay from retro_consoles_accessories) --> "Female RGBS SCART / JP21 to BNC adapter breakout cable for Sony PVM and BVM monitors" (from retrogamers.co.uk -- the one without the sync stripper built in) --> PVM

Thus far when I boot up nearly any game that I own, it will default sync up to the monitor by way of RGB in 480i. Looks great, much better than any other display I have ever seen the games on. Now as I said, I am a newbie with this stuff and now I try play testing Skies of Arcadia on DC. When I put the disc in and turn it on, the opening sega splash screens show up and look just fine in 480i (as indicated on my screen's display readout)... but then the tv starts clicking and switches to 480p. The output then appears very wavy and distorted -- the black edges of the screen scramble and bunches of waves and swirls happen on the screen. The game is still there, and the colors are fine... but yeah, very wavy. Thus, it is unplayable and hard to look at. This is the only game that ever automatically goes into 480p mode that I currently own. All other games I have tried thus far have defaulted to 480i and play just fine. Now if I switch the box over to force 480p in those games ("VGA" on the switch), the picture distorts just like Skies of Arcadia did.

This leads me to believe that I either am missing a cable connection somewhere or I have something hooked up wrong. (I know the 20L5 is multiformat and can accept virtually any signal). What cables/connectors/settings on the Toro Box are missing for me to get a jumbled and incorrect video signal when in VGA mode? Do I need some sort of extra converter to get a VGA/RGB sync combination or something? If getting those 480i games to play in 480p is not possible, that's fine... I just want to definitely be able to play Skies of Arcadia on my 20L5 in its 480p default. Like if I need a VGA connection, does this monitor even have a way to hook that up? I know there is a serial port, but that is d9 not d15.

Sorry again, as I am sure many of these questions have been asked before. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[tacoguy64]

With some games, you might need to force 480p.
Not sure about Skies but I know the midway arcade ports you have to turn the system on with the VGA on 240p mode and then switch it over to 480p when you hear the beep. Theres only a very few games where that trick wont work. Check out the TORO product page.

[Fudoh]

you're not supposed to switch games into 480p after booting. If you select 480p BEFORE switching on the DC the splashscreen along with the boot menu should already show up in 480p.

The forcing of 480i-only titles into 480p requires very precise timing. The NTSC version of Skies of Arcade are certainly VGA-compatible, so there's no need for any trickery.

[Unseen]

The description in the first post sounds as if you are trying to run the game in 480i RGB mode? As far as I know the NTSC version of Skies of Arcadia is one of the (few?) games which do not support this mode, so that is probably the reason why it switches to 480p. In the PAL version that was fixed, but they removed 480p support. =(

Your description of the 480p image on your PVM sounds like some kind of sync problem, it's probably a good idea to sort that out to you can use 480p whenever a game supports it.

[RGB0b]

Do you have the Toro's sync combiner button set to RGBs output? http://www.retrorgb.com/images/ToroPage03.jpg

[aallgod]

Thanks for the replies thus far -- I can try out new suggestions and do some more research later tonight after classes...

Do you have the Toro's sync combiner button set to RGBs output? http://www.retrorgb.com/images/ToroPage03.jpg

I do have it set for RGBs, yes. (Button is pressed inward and latched)

you're not supposed to switch games into 480p after booting. If you select 480p BEFORE switching on the DC the splashscreen along with the boot menu should already show up in 480p.

The forcing of 480i-only titles into 480p requires very precise timing. The NTSC version of Skies of Arcade are certainly VGA-compatible, so there's no need for any trickery.

I didn't even know you could do that, haha. I was just trying different settings out and such. Most of my games are fine in 480I settings and run well... Skies was the only one that would automatically switch to 480o (as if the tv is overriding the Toro). I get the same wavy stuff when I tried briefly forcing some games into 480o.

The description in the first post sounds as if you are trying to run the game in 480i RGB mode? As far as I know the NTSC version of Skies of Arcadia is one of the (few?) games which do not support this mode, so that is probably the reason why it switches to 480p. In the PAL version that was fixed, but they removed 480p support. =(

Your description of the 480p image on your PVM sounds like some kind of sync problem, it's probably a good idea to sort that out to you can use 480p whenever a game supports it.

I do believe this is definitely part of the problem... My PVM accepts 31 khz signals, but not through VGA (as there is no 15-pin port... Just 9-pin serial). So to use the Toro's sync combiner Would you need a display that can hook up both the VGA and RGB cables? So odd that Skies tried to bounce to 480p... Shame, because from the screen that I do see that isn't swirly it looks fantastic. Do you think this sync issue could be corrected through something like an Extron box maybe? That way I could feed VGA signal into it and go BNC out to BNC in that way?

[Ed Oscuro]

Not directly related (I've never tried hooking up a DC to my 20L5) but did you consider getting a VGA monitor? That will work just as well, at the expense of more space.

[aallgod]

Not directly related (I've never tried hooking up a DC to my 20L5) but did you consider getting a VGA monitor? That will work just as well, at the expense of more space.

While it isn't completely out of question, I would rather not. Space is getting tight as it is, haha. I really would like to get that VGA signal to the 20L5 somehow, if it is even possible.

[Fudoh]

I think we got a little mix up here.

Some of the VGA boxes allow you to switch between RGBs and RGBHV output, which is actually a switch between 31khz VGA and 15khz RGB. It was meant to play 15khz RGB titles without the need to swap your cable. Your problem here: Skies (NTSC) won't work with 15khz RGB, so you're running into problems.

Newer VGA boxes from beharbros allow you leave the DC in VGA mode (= 31khz output), but still get RGBs instead of RGBHV. This function was meant for the Framemeister.

So, in order to play 480p titles on your DC (and even boot the DC in VGA), you need to leave your VGA box in RGBHV/31khz position, but add an external RGBHV to RGBs (or RGsB) conversion box. Are you in the US ? Just check ebay for "Extron RGB" and get the cheapest one with standard HD15 input.

[moltomolto]

this is somewhat related to OP's question and I've been wondering about it for a while.

I also have a DC that I hook up into my PVM20L5 through the Toro box (Hi five!), but I run it direct through my Extron Super Emotia, which I then use BNC to output into my PVM. Is this an ideal setup, or should I be running it into an RGBHV to RGBS box first? With all the switches on the Toro plus the Emotia, I just wonder if I'm getting the optimal IQ out of the DC or if there's a better way to hook into the PVM than this.

[Fudoh]

You should ONLY use BNC from the Emotia if you want true 240p (with scanlines). In all other instances a direct connection from the DC would be better, both for 480p material (since you got a L5) and for games that don't support 480p (480i then).

[aallgod]

I think we got a little mix up here.

Some of the VGA boxes allow you to switch between RGBs and RGBHV output, which is actually a switch between 31khz VGA and 15khz RGB. It was meant to play 15khz RGB titles without the need to swap your cable. Your problem here: Skies (NTSC) won't work with 15khz RGB, so you're running into problems.

Newer VGA boxes from beharbros allow you leave the DC in VGA mode (= 31khz output), but still get RGBs instead of RGBHV. This function was meant for the Framemeister.

So, in order to play 480p titles on your DC (and even boot the DC in VGA), you need to leave your VGA box in RGBHV/31khz position, but add an external RGBHV to RGBs (or RGsB) conversion box. Are you in the US ? Just check ebay for "Extron RGB" and get the cheapest one with standard HD15 input.

Thanks for the insight, Fudoh. I do plan on also using a Framemeister someday on a flat-screen tv, so it's good to know that the Toro has that capability.

Indeed I live in the U.S. -- So I gave it a look on eBay, and there are definitely a ton of cheap boxes. Specifically for my PVM, which of these would be the best choice?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extron-RGB-580x ... SwLN5Wl7l8
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTRON-RGB-130x ... Sw~OVW0HNH
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTRON-RGB-109X ... 1917613018
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extron-RGB-190F ... SwzgRWuTCE
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extron-model-RG ... Sw37tV~NsV

One or two of those units don't handle audio input (just picture) -- would I even need an audio input/output processor, or can I just take the audio from the Red and White channels straight from the Toro and into some PC speakers without additional processing? Figure that could cut down on price a bit. Regardless, I just need to remember that we are going from RGBHV/31khz to RGBs.

So if I am correct then about being able to get away with no extra audio processing through the Extron, the video set up would go like this:

[DC]---> [Toro] ---- VGA cable----> [Extron RGBHV to RGBs] --- RGBs cables ---> [PVM]

Does that all sound correct? And this would allow me to get that 480p going on the PVM and get rid of the waves and distortion? If so, this should be a fairly inexpensive and quick thing to get set up.

[Fudoh]

Thanks for the insight, Fudoh. I do plan on also using a Framemeister someday on a flat-screen tv, so it's good to know that the Toro has that capability.

The FM basically has the same requirements as your monitor. RGBs instead of RGBHV, so once you got it running on your L5 you can easily switch over to XRGB-Mini anytime.

The 190F or 192 are a popular choices. Don't bother with audio, just route it around the interface.

[Extron RGBHV to RGBs] --- RGBs cables ---> [PVM]

you have to check your PVM's manual. If the monitor accepts RGB with sync on green (RGsB) - and I think it does - then choose SoG on the interface and just use three BNC cables from the interface to the monitor instead of four. Makes it easier.

[aallgod]

Thanks for the insight, Fudoh. I do plan on also using a Framemeister someday on a flat-screen tv, so it's good to know that the Toro has that capability.

The FM basically has the same requirements as your monitor. RGBs instead of RGBHV, so once you got it running on your L5 you can easily switch over to XRGB-Mini anytime.

The 190F or 192 are a popular choices. Don't bother with audio, just route it around the interface.

[Extron RGBHV to RGBs] --- RGBs cables ---> [PVM]

you have to check your PVM's manual. If the monitor accepts RGB with sync on green (RGsB) - and I think it does - then choose SoG on the interface and just use three BNC cables from the interface to the monitor instead of four. Makes it easier.

So RGsB, if capable, is an equivalent but simpler sync method to the PVM-20L5? Interesting, did not know that. I will look to the manual to see if I can do it.

Here's another question: Now if I purchase a matrix SCART switcher, like the Shinybow 6x2 (two different SCART outputs) or the gscartsw 8:1 switcher (scart out and vga out), would I be able to use the aforementioned setup for the DC to be able to eventually be able to output it to both a PVM and flat-screen tv as I wish? It would be cool to switch between the two at my leisure. Like to handle the DC signal conversions necessary for each output device (pvm and flat screen), would I then need a Extron RGB converter box that has two separate outputs and cables to connect stuff? Or am I going down a rabbit hole that I should probably just keep simple and rig up for one or the other? Haha.

Again, I thank you for all the help.

[Ed Oscuro]

RGsB (Sync on Green) is a Sony thing mainly, so it's supported by the PVM.

[aallgod]

RGsB (Sync on Green) is a Sony thing mainly, so it's supported by the PVM.

Yeah I looked into it, and it does indeed support RGsB. Thanks!

[aallgod]

So I got my Extron Box and BNC cables in the mail today. Hooked it all up, and I currently do not get any picture.

This is what I tried first BEFORE playing around with settings: The Dreamcast is plugged into a Toro Box (with the box set to RGBHV mode and the 4th switch on the side of the Toro set to RGB, no scanlines on). The Toro Box has one cable coming out of it (VGA cord), which is running to the Extron RGB 192. The VGA cord goes into the correct VGA port on the Extron, and the dip switches are all currently set to OFF. My output BNC are RGBs (3 color lines and sync line). I have the BNC output then connected right into the back of the PVM. I get the same exact results when trying to run games into 480p through the Extron as I did without the Extron in my setup -- some uneven colors and waves all over the place.

Pictures below of what I have tried since my initial 480p test... First, a set of pics with the setup for RGsB (Sync on Green):


(Settings for Toro (RGBHV switch set in middle of box, scanlines off, VGA switch enabled)


(Dip switches on Extron set for Level [brightens the screen a bit], SOG [for sync on green], and DDSP [without it, the image is crazy discolored and distorted])


(RGsB output through back of Extron)


(RGB plugs going into back of PVM -- sync on green, with no ext sync connected)


(What my output looks like... 480p. Colors are fine, but the waves on the top of the screen swirl throughout the top half of the display, looking fine near the bottom)

Setup #2: RGBs (RGB w/ ext sync)


(Back of PVM... now with ext sync plugged in)


(RGBs output from Extron... not pictured: the SOG dip switch was turned to OFF, while Level and DDSP remain ON)


(You can really see those wavy lines along the edges -- and display is in 480p, as indicated in corner)


(The colors look great, but there are those wavy lines again... swirls everything up)

I also tried a few other games in 480p mode as well (NFL2K2 and Soul Calibur), and the display does the same thing as with Skies. I am sort of at a loss of what to do from here -- any thoughts? I hope my PVM isn't the thing causing issues here.

[aallgod]

To supplement my above post, here are also pictures of the current settings on my television (In case these need to be changed -- again, I am in dark territory about my knowledge of this sort of stuff):















Again, thanks for your help!

[Ed Oscuro]

You did hit the EXT SYNC button on the front of the unit? Beyond that I've no idea, I've used 480p on a 20L5 with no problems (Xbox via Component, though).

[aallgod]

You did hit the EXT SYNC button on the front of the unit? Beyond that I've no idea, I've used 480p on a 20L5 with no problems (Xbox via Component, though).

Yes, I did. Without it on my screen is an entirely garbled mess, haha.

[Ed Oscuro]

As expected, hmm, I wonder if this is something settings would fix. Have you any luck using 480p component or 240p RGBs from other systems?

[aallgod]

As expected, hmm, I wonder if this is something settings would fix. Have you any luck using 480p component or 240p RGBs from other systems?

SNES Jr. by way of RGB's looks perfect -- hooked it up through a SCART To BNC adaptor right to the tv with no issues. The Dreamcast is my only current system I have tried to do VGA style through the Toro and Extron, so I have no idea if any other VGA connection works as of right now.

[Blair]

interesting, I have a Dreamcast hooked up to a pvm-20L5 and it works great.

Its like this.

dreamcast = VGA Box = extron rgb 203 rxi = 20L5.

my vga connector is naki a vga box. i've never tried a toro (but I want to get one because of the scan-line switch)

have you tried composite sync from the rgb interface?

I'm also using high-grade RCA Cables with bnc adapters. (works better for me).

those pictures are definitely showing a sync issue, it looks like a weak sync signal. (I think something might be wrong with the RGB interface or your cables).

[aallgod]

interesting, I have a Dreamcast hooked up to a pvm-20L5 and it works great.

Its like this.

dreamcast = VGA Box = extron rgb 203 rxi = 20L5.

my vga connector is naki a vga box. i've never tried a toro (but I want to get one because of the scan-line switch)

have you tried composite sync from the rgb interface?

I'm also using high-grade RCA Cables with bnc adapters. (works better for me).

those pictures are definitely showing a sync issue, it looks like a weak sync signal. (I think something might be wrong with the RGB interface or your cables).

Hi Blair,

Thanks for your input! I was pretty sure this is a sync issue, since the picture is entirely fine (and looks great) in 480i. I was thinking it was either a cable issue or something potentially internally messed up in the PVM that I would need professionally looked at.

I have two different BNC hook-ups available to me -- when I don't use the extron (like in my initial setup), I just hooked up a male to male SCART cable (which I got specifically for the Toro from retro_gaming_accessories on ebay) to a SCART to BNC adaptor that goes into the PVM (I was using RGBs, by the way.) My other setup had the same results... Toro outputting through a VGA cable to an Extron RGB 192 converter (as recommended by Fudoh), and I tried settings for both RGBs and RGsB going then to the PVM by a cable with male BNCs on both ends. The pictures shown are from the second setup. Either way, I know the Toro combines sync and can push 480p through SCART, and did so in the same way as set up #2 did through vga.

As mentioned I have hooked up my SNES Jr to the PVM with no issues in 240p/480i... looks great! So I have determined, then, that my PVM is not happy with me trying to give it a 480p signal. Do you think that a BNC-T adaptor could assist me perhaps? Or could the use of 75 ohm terminators help out? I am thinking that maybe the wavy lines can be coming from interference of some sort... would I be correct in assuming that maybe terminators might alleviate the issue?

How do I set my RGB interface to do composite sync? I don't know how to do that.

[Blair]

Hi Blair,

Thanks for your input! I was pretty sure this is a sync issue, since the picture is entirely fine (and looks great) in 480i. I was thinking it was either a cable issue or something potentially internally messed up in the PVM that I would need professionally looked at.

Hi "aallgod,

if 480i and 240p work fine then 480p, 720p and even 1080i should all be displayed fine on the 20L5. (720p and 1080i only work in 16:9 mode)

I have two different BNC hook-ups available to me -- when I don't use the extron (like in my initial setup), I just hooked up a male to male SCART cable (which I got specifically for the Toro from retro_gaming_accessories on ebay) to a SCART to BNC adaptor that goes into the PVM (I was using RGBs, by the way.) My other setup had the same results... Toro outputting through a VGA cable to an Extron RGB 192 converter (as recommended by Fudoh), and I tried settings for both RGBs and RGsB going then to the PVM by a cable with male BNCs on both ends. The pictures shown are from the second setup.

well, all of my equipment is from the USA (NTSC/60hz) so I'm not sure how a pal dreamcast might change things. Are you mostly trying to play NTSC/60hz tittles or PAL/50hz? (US or Euro)

Do you have accesses to something that can output 480p 60hz via component? Like a dvd player or more recent game system?

Either way, I know the Toro combines sync

But the point of the Extron RGB is to combine the H/V sync into a composite sync, if the Toro is already combining the signal you wouldn't need the RGB interface. For the RGB interface to do its job the VGA box should be outputting RGBHV.

As mentioned I have hooked up my SNES Jr to the PVM with no issues in 240p/480i... looks great! So I have determined, then, that my PVM is not happy with me trying to give it a 480p signal.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion until you have tested component video 480p out, (do you have any add on cards for input on your unit?)

Do you think that a BNC-T adaptor could assist me perhaps?

No, that only works on some BVMs and not always very well.

Or could the use of 75 ohm terminators help out? I am thinking that maybe the wavy lines can be coming from interference of some sort... would I be correct in assuming that maybe terminators might alleviate the issue?

That's also a more of a BVM thing. Most PVM's don't need that (can't hurt to try though).

How do I set my RGB interface to do composite sync? I don't know how to do that.

according to the specs on your RGB 192 it should be outputting composite and separate horizontal and vertical sync simultaneously. (composite sync from the “S” output) unless something is malfunctioning with it.

So, the fist thing to do is test your Monitor with another 480p source (game systems, dvd players, etc)

then the TORO, do you have any VGA ports on your LCD screens? To test it with?

Then the RGB 192, and the cables. Do you have a pc/video card that can output in VGA?

[aallgod]

well, all of my equipment is from the USA (NTSC/60hz) so I'm not sure how a pal dreamcast might change things. Are you mostly trying to play NTSC/60hz tittles or PAL/50hz? (US or Euro)

My equipment is all NTSC/60Hz as well.

Do you have accesses to something that can output 480p 60hz via component? Like a dvd player or more recent game system?

I have a PS3 that I can test on it, and may have my Nintendo Wii still... I will have to look around. That's a good point about testing other equipment in component on the device.

Glad I asked about the BNC-T and terminators now, before dropping unnecessary money on stuff. I was just taking a shot in the dark with that stuff -- I am a bit of a newbie with this stuff still.

There should not be any malfunctioning going on with the composite sync-in BNC on the PVM -- It took the sync cable from the SNES Jr. connection no problem.

then the TORO, do you have any VGA ports on your LCD screens? To test it with?

I did test my LCD computer monitor in VGA mode with the DC hooked up through the TORO... It worked fine with no wavy lines or anything like that.

Then the RGB 192, and the cables. Do you have a pc/video card that can output in VGA?

I don't believe that I have a pc/vid card that can output VGA at the moment, unless a previous computer in my closet has the capability. I can look into it. I think the VGA cable is fine, as it worked going out to my LCD computer monitor during testing. Would shorter cables add any added strength to a signal?

And a quick question about the Extron 203 Rxi of yours... do you use the LEVEL BOOST knob on your unit? Does this have anything to do with strengthening the sync signal?

Thanks again for all of your help thus far.

[Blair]

My equipment is all NTSC/60Hz as well.

good!

I have a PS3 that I can test on it, and may have my Nintendo Wii still... I will have to look around. That's a good point about testing other equipment in component on the device.

Yes, testing another 480p video signal will help you immensely with diagnosing the problem.

I did test my LCD computer monitor in VGA mode with the DC hooked up through the TORO... It worked fine with no wavy lines or anything like that.

that's a good sign, but most LCD monitors are a little less finicky with sync then pro a/v equipment, so it could still be an issue.

There should not be any malfunctioning going on with the composite sync-in BNC on the PVM -- It took the sync cable from the SNES Jr. connection no problem.

I don't think anything is wrong with your sync-in BNC port on the PVM, I think something is Incorrect with the signal coming from either the TORO or the RGB interface. either the TORO is pumping out a weak or preconditioned sync signal (if its already taking the the H and V and turning them into CSYNC aka Composite Snyc, then the RGB 192 won't be able to do its job as a sync combiner) or the RGB interface is malfunctioning.

on my setup it works like this.

Dreamcast = VGA BOX = RGBHV signal from the VGA cable = 203 rxi (the 203 takes the RGBHV and converts it into RGBS) = R-G-B-S cables = into the PVM.

I'm not sure if that's how its working for you.

I don't believe that I have a pc/vid card that can output VGA at the moment,

what is the make and model of your PC's Video-card? I have a 750ti and an gtx560 and they both output a great 480p signal (most DVI ports can be converted to VGA output with a small passive adapter)

Would shorter cables add any added strength to a signal?

shorter cables can be a good thing, but you usually you want thicker cables from a good manufacturer. (I've been using the “amazon basic” brand and they have been great for VGA cables with resolutions all the way up to 1080p with no ghosting even at 15ft in length).

And a quick question about the Extron 203 Rxi of yours... do you use the LEVEL BOOST knob on your unit? Does this have anything to do with strengthening the sync signal?

Yes I use both the BOOST and PEEK knobs on my 203's. but its only for brightness (boost) and sharpness (peek) nothing really to do with the sync signal. have you also tried the 192 with DDSP off? as well as on? what does that do to the picture?

Thanks again for all of your help thus far.

No prob, I know this stuff can be confusing.

[aallgod]

Hey Blair,

I guess first before I can test other stuff I will need to get some BNC adapters for the end of my component cable cords so they can plug into the PVM (all of my PVM-compatible cables are currently integrated BNC) -- so it may be a few days before I can report back on results regarding testing other units in component.

I don't think anything is wrong with your sync-in BNC port on the PVM, I think something is Incorrect with the signal coming from either the TORO or the RGB interface. either the TORO is pumping out a weak or preconditioned sync signal (if its already taking the the H and V and turning them into CSYNC aka Composite Snyc, then the RGB 192 won't be able to do its job as a sync combiner) or the RGB interface is malfunctioning.

It is likely that the Toro puts out the weakened or preconditioned sync signal -- plus, I believe it already acts as a sync combiner. If I were to just not use the Extron and just go DC=Toro=SCART to SCART Cable=SCART to BNC=PVM, I currently get the same video results as I do with the VGA cable through the Extron setup. So the Toro does what it says it will do by pushing the 480p signal through SCART, at the very least...

So as I said before, the Toro does 15khz RGB (480i) perfectly on my PVM, but the 31khz signal is wonky. I am beginning to think that I should test a better quality VGA cable first-- I am truthfully just using an old standard VGA cable that came with my old CRT from way back in the day... so that may have something to do with it. And if not, at least I upgraded my cable.

have you also tried the 192 with DDSP off? as well as on? what does that do to the picture?

I just tried playing with the dip switches, doing so first with a RGsB setup, then a RGBs setup. The results of each were identical, and were as such: If I have DDSP "OFF", it certainly reduces the amount of wavy lines on the screen a little bit, but also throws the picture off-center and darkens it big-time... I then have to use the horizontal knob on the Extron to center it. Either way, it doesn't look right. When I turn DDSP to "ON", the waves get more severe in amplitude around the edges, but the screen brightens up and looks more like it should display (and looks fantastic with colors) and the screen auto-centers itself. [this second setup was what I used for my previously posted photos]

Dreamcast = VGA BOX = RGBHV signal from the VGA cable = 203 rxi (the 203 takes the RGBHV and converts it into RGBS) = R-G-B-S cables = into the PVM.

That is essentially my VGA setup when I use my Extron RGB 192, yes.

I could always message the Beharbros regarding the Toro to see if they have any input about troubleshooting the box regarding its VGA output. It may be the culprit, since the 31khz signal turns out the same whether I push it through SCART (not needing Extron OR a quality VGA cable) or I do VGA... I will try a better VGA cable in my setup first just in case (I should get a good quality one for my future permanent setup anyway), and if that doesn't work that most likely leaves the Toro pumping out too weak of a signal. And of course, I will simultaneously get those BNC adapters so I can try other component signals to double check things on that front.

Whew, that was a lot to type -- thanks for reading.

[Raen]

Hi all,

Don't mean to hijack this thread but it seems kinda related and my problem might contribute to it.

I recently acquired a Sony Trinitron Multiscan CPD-G500 21'' CRT Monitor, which has VGA + RGBS BNC inputs. I use it with an old desktop PC and with my Dreamcast + Toro VGA box combo. I eventually bought a SCART to BNC cable from retrogamingcables.co.uk (arcadeforge.net sells a VGA to RGBS BNC cable btw) to avoid having to swap VGA cables every time I wanted to switch between PC and DC, leaving the VGA input for the PC and the RGBS BNC inputs for the Dreamcast (not a big deal, since the Toro VGA Box can also output 480p through SCART).

Everything was going great, until I tried to play a game that apparently is not VGA compatible, and cannot be trickied into playing in the 31 khz VGA mode. That, allied to the fact that the monitor doesn't support 15,6 kHz RGB mode (says "out of scan range"), poses my problem.


I searched a little bit and the solution is to get a scandoubler (aka line doubler, upscan converter, etc) to convert the 15,6 kHz signal into a 31 kHz one that the monitor supports, and by doing so, even the games that can't be trickied into VGA mode should be playable in this monitor in RGB mode, which was initially my plan.

Initial search attempts led me to a scandoubler called CV3D Scandoubler, but that is for the Amiga and nothing that works with the Dreamcast came up. Then I saw the OSSC review on Fudoh's website and thought that I'd found the solution, until I saw that it has only digital outputs, not analog ones.

Someone said to me that I could buy a cheap GBS-8220 CGA to VGA board, that it would do the trick. I just wanted to hear a second opinion, since these boards don't seem to be of the highest quality and don't have SCART IN and SCART OUT (maybe a mod lies ahead, just like fagin's?).
Is this GBS-8220 CGA to VGA board really the best option for the job (scan doubling 15 khz to 31 khz), or is there a better alternative?

@aallgod: Skies of Arcadia is not VGA compatible, and cannot be even trickied afaik (the PAL version at least).

[aallgod]

I went ahead and emailed the Beharbros website about my problem -- Yossi mentioned that my best bet is to try a VGA to RGBs BNC cable for my setup... that will avoid having to feed my signal through an Extron and any extra cables, which should theoretically preserve the Toro's original signal strength. Since I already ordered a new, more quality VGA cable to use in my current setup, I will try that first before investing in one of these cables.

(arcadeforge.net sells a VGA to RGBS BNC cable btw

Glad I read that part of your post, thanks Raen! I will look into that cable.

@aallgod: Skies of Arcadia is not VGA compatible, and cannot be even trickied afaik (the PAL version at least).

When I did a bit of research on other forums, I read that "the PAL version supports RGB, but loses VGA support and doesn't have a 60hz mode." Skies for the U.S./Japan is non-RGB, and defaults to VGA instead. For me: When I put my Toro into 15khz/480i mode and feed the PVM a SCART signal with Skies of Arcadia in my DC, the TV makes noise upon the system powering up, the screen will flicker, and it then puts the tv into 480p mode. So it actually sounds like the complete reverse of the PAL version.

As for the remainder of your post regarding scandoublers, I'm sorry, I am unfamiliar with the technology... but I am sure others here can chime in a bit about it.