Cartridge slot widening/cutting - Best method?

[IronGiant]

if someone made a new plastic trim and flaps it would solve this problem.

the superfami underneath has the same cart slot width as the us snes, minus the tabs.

you could just take the dark grey trim off.

Exactly.

But somebody would probably need to 3D scan the flap and trim, make some suitable models for printing (modifying the slot and flap to accommodate the US cartridge) then print them in a suitable plastic. I've no idea how much just the 3D scanning and model creation would cost, presumably the actual 3D printing wouldn't be terribly expensive.

[Guspaz]

No need to scan anything (well, the flap anyhow), just measure and design it to scale in a modelling program.

Printing the flap isn't too expensive, but not all that cheap either. I suspect more of the cost from Helder/BuffaloWings stuff has to do with paying for their time, and the PCB. My bet is that they're using ShapeWays (SLS) white polished. Maybe they're not, but photos of that look just like what their stuff looks like. That's not that expensive, but it's not that cheap:

$2.00/part
$0.28/material cm3
$0.21/machine cm3

A better material might be the polished metallic plastic (it's gray), but it's even more expensive:

$2.00/part
$0.56/material cm3
$0.32/machine cm3

You can dye the white stuff, but you lose the advantage of anybody being able to order directly from shapeways without any handling yourself, since it goes from "printed part arrives in mail, install on SFC" to "some assembly required".

How big is the trim on the SFC? Does it fit within the max dimensions from Shapeways? All the polished stuff has a max dimensions of 200mm x 150mm x 150mm. Unpolished can go much larger but has a very rough finish.

EDIT: BuffaloWing actually has a bunch of stuff for sale on ShapeWays, so they definitely do use them. He's only got an RCA rear panel, though, not the multi AV ones:

http://www.shapeways.com/product/5C7JVD ... d=40441163

He also has some parts that are not that far off what we're talking about. For example, here is a replacement tray for the SNES, intended to let you avoid cutting the tabs on a US SNES Mini:

http://www.shapeways.com/product/MARFTP ... 413521c3cf

EDIT2: Here is an existing 3D model of the the SFC/EU SNES that could be modified, assuming it's accurate, although it's not a free model, and would still need to be scaled appropriately for printing:

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/sup ... max/502886

EDIT3: Here's a free model, but I'm not sure how accurate it is, and printing parts like the flap or trim would require extra modeling for the pegs and hinges that are hidden, unless he also modelled that:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:982108

[BuckoA51]

All very interesting finds, thanks! BuffaloWing care to comment on this? I've never done any 3D printing etc but this is certainly an exciting idea. I suppose the only disadvantage is you'd lose the Super Famicom logo in the top right of the panel.

[IronGiant]

That's extremely useful, thanks Guspaz.

[Guspaz]

Maybe print in metallic plastic and leave the super famicom logo embossed?

The whole trim is pretty big, though, I bet it wouldn't be cheap to print. You'd want to prototype this with the cheaper material to get the fitment right and then print it in the nicer polished material for a final prototype.

The required prototyping to get the fitment just right could get real expensive.

[IronGiant]

All very interesting finds, thanks! BuffaloWing care to comment on this? I've never done any 3D printing etc but this is certainly an exciting idea. I suppose the only disadvantage is you'd lose the Super Famicom logo in the top right of the panel.

The round Super Famicom logo resides inside a round shallow indent in the dark grey plastic part that would need to be reproduced and modified. The replacement part would need to have a similar round indentation and a self adhesive (plastic) label printed separately. I am of course assuming that would be possible.

[BuckoA51]

The required prototyping to get the fitment just right could get real expensive.

Yeah the expense does worry me, I can see it sky-rocketing quickly, especially as a lot of people are quite happy with a trim of the cartridge slot, but it never hurts to explore all possibilities.

[Guspaz]

I'm not sure it's worth going to that much trouble, just emboss the logo and call it an aesthetic choice. The thing isn't going to look like the original anyhow, since the material is a different colour and a different surface finish/texture. Maybe it's my lack of nostalgia for a logo that never existed in North America, but it seems like superfluous effort just to get the colours in the logo.

Another option, if you really want to preserve the four colours, is to leave slots in the trim the shape of each coloured element, and then print those separately in the red/green/yellow/blue polished plastic. Then just slot in the four coloured bits and superglue them in place. That would probably provide a pretty decent looking logo. Or leave a disc-shaped indent and try using the full-colour sandstone process to print the logo as a disc. Or go to a proper print shop and have it printed on an actual plastic disc.

Personally, I'd just go for the metallic plastic with the logo embossed, but again, I've got no nostalgia for the European/Japanese version of the console, and the goal should be a nice professional look rather than a super-accurate-but-modified-shape look.

EDIT: Wiggy from Rose Coloured Gaming did discuss the possibility of making plastic moulded EU SNES trims:

http://www.thecoverproject.net/forums/i ... 8#msg75218

He/they already make a ton of custom plastic products for things like replacement GBA shells, so if somebody pestered them, maybe they'd do it. He seemed to think it would be quite easy for him.

[BuffaloWing]

Sounds good but I know nothing of these things! Tell me more?

When I have some free time, I'll mock up something to illustrate the two.

No need to scan anything (well, the flap anyhow), just measure and design it to scale in a modelling program.

That's correct. All it takes is a vernier caliper, some some basic metrology know-how and a CAD program.

My bet is that they're using ShapeWays (SLS)

Yes, the parts that Helder sells come from Shapeways. SLS is preferred by myself because the process yields very good surface finish and the printed part can be polished to give a smoother look.
For my own personal projects I've migrated to using Sculpteo since they offer gray and black colored plastic in polished form. To me, having the option to choose between those two colors is invaluable for things I create. Sculpteo is typically twice as more expensive than Shapeways but they tend to print curved surface much better, offer option to print at higher resolution (at additional cost), and they also provide the option to choose print orientation (useful for controlling surface texture and dimensions) when ordering large quantity of parts.

A better material might be the polished metallic plastic (it's gray), but it's even more expensive:

Mechanically speaking, Aluminite (metallic plastic) is more suitable for parts that under goes compressive pressure/load. For more flexibility/resiliency, the regular variety is still a better choice.

How big is the trim on the SFC? Does it fit within the max dimensions from Shapeways?

Roughly about 160mm x 157mm, just outside the maximum limit of Shapeway's polishing constraint.

BuffaloWing actually has a bunch of stuff for sale on ShapeWays, so they definitely do use them. He's only got an RCA rear panel, though, not the multi AV ones:

Thank you for plugging my links. While I have since learned how to design PCBs on my own, it's not my area of expertise so Helder is continuing selling those multiout as a joint-venture.

All very interesting finds, thanks! BuffaloWing care to comment on this? I've never done any 3D printing etc but this is certainly an exciting idea.

This widening project is something I always wanted to do with 3D printing. I have both JPN Super Famicom and the American SNES. Despite the fact that I grew up with the American version, I always preferred the industrial design of the Japanese housing. As everyone have discussed, it all comes down to the cost. At the end of the day most people just want to play the games, only a small niche group of people will ever care how their system look. I understand this and I don't fault people having this sentiment.

[Guspaz]

Mechanically speaking, Aluminite (metallic plastic) is more suitable for parts that under goes compressive pressure/load. For more flexibility/resiliency, the regular variety is still a better choice.

I was thinking it was better suited purely from an appearance standpoint: the metallic plastic looked like it might fit the SFC, while the white would look out of place without dye, which means people can't buy the parts direct from the printer. But if Sculpteo prints directly to grey, then problem solved. Of course, the SFC trim is kind of big, so if Sculpteo really is quite expensive, maybe it wouldn't be such a great alternative...

Roughly about 160mm x 157mm, just outside the maximum limit of Shapeway's polishing constraint.

If it's 160 x 157, and the max volume is 200mm x 150mm x 150mm, then the trim should fit with a slight rotation, since the diagonal measurement with a completely flat part would allow a maximum dimension of 200mm x 212mm or 150mm x 250 mm. So it would have no problem fitting on an angle... although maybe that would ruin the surface texture with the layering?

[BuffaloWing]

[I was thinking it was better suited purely from an appearance standpoint: the metallic plastic looked like it might fit the SFC, while the white would look out of place without dye, which means people can't buy the parts direct from the printer. But if Sculpteo prints directly to grey, then problem solved. Of course, the SFC trim is kind of big, so if Sculpteo really is quite expensive, maybe it wouldn't be such a great alternative...

The gray color offer by Sculpteo is similar in shade to the metallic plastic you mentioned minus the metallic sparkles that the aluminum powder give off, so unfortunately it's not an exact match. I personally would still elect to print the part in stock white and spray automotive dye as it's possible to purchase gray color dye that can match very closely to the SFC's shade. I brought up about the metallic plastic's property of Aluminide material because the top panel has a series of clips/tabs that need to be flexible. Aluminide in this use case may not survive the stress of attaching for the first time.

If it's 160 x 157, and the max volume is 200mm x 150mm x 150mm, then the trim should fit with a slight rotation, since the diagonal measurement with a completely flat part would allow a maximum dimension of 200mm x 212mm or 150mm x 250 mm. So it would have no problem fitting on an angle... although maybe that would ruin the surface texture with the layering?

Actually their machine is capable of printing 650 × 350 × 550 mm volume. The 200mm x 150mm x 150mm envelope is for their polishing machine. As for printing at an angle, yes that would definitely ruin the texture. Although that's theoretically viable, when Shapeways give you robot quote they don't take that into account and would reject the part without considering the possibility.

[BuckoA51]

This widening project is something I always wanted to do with 3D printing. I have both JPN Super Famicom and the American SNES. Despite the fact that I grew up with the American version, I always preferred the industrial design of the Japanese housing. As everyone have discussed, it all comes down to the cost. At the end of the day most people just want to play the games, only a small niche group of people will ever care how their system look. I understand this and I don't fault people having this sentiment.

Very true, my aim with my store has always been to give people as much choice as possible though and with the basic slot cutting in particular to find the way to do the neatest job cutting without the tedious dremelling.

[IronGiant]

EDIT: Wiggy from Rose Coloured Gaming did discuss the possibility of making plastic moulded EU SNES trims:

http://www.thecoverproject.net/forums/i ... 8#msg75218

He/they already make a ton of custom plastic products for things like replacement GBA shells, so if somebody pestered them, maybe they'd do it. He seemed to think it would be quite easy for him.

That's extremely useful, many thanks. I'm on the case ............ (pun not intended )

[BuckoA51]

Don't shell out too much for that part though

(sorry... )

[IronGiant]

Ho Ho Ho .............

[Strider77]

Leave these poor Super Famicoms alone. Honestly if its that important to use US carts what are you doing with a Super Famicom?

[Guspaz]

They prefer the look of the Euro/Japanese models, but want to play games from all regions. It's not easier than just using the Canadian/US SNES, but even though all my nostalgia is for that one, I have to admit the Euro/Japanese models do look better.

[Taiyaki]

Yeah I also use a Super Famicom because that's what I had as a kid, however now a days 90% of my games are NTSC US and require one of those silly looking adapters.

[BuffaloWing]

I spent the last few nights creating a reference 3D model of the original SFC top panel so I can use it to plan out my version of the top panel with widen slot. I already have a good idea how much it would cost. It won't be cheap, but it's still a bit cheaper than what I first estimated.

[Pasky]

I spent the last few nights creating a reference 3D model of the original SFC top panel so I can use it to plan out my version of the top panel with widen slot. I already have a good idea how much it would cost. It won't be cheap, but it's still a bit cheaper than what I first estimated.

Now this looks like a cool idea. Keep us updated, thanks.

[IronGiant]

@BuffaloWing - very nice work.

How much do you think it will cost per top panel? (once you have modified the cart slot for US carts).

Also, do you aim to make a replacement dust flap too?

[Taiyaki]

That looks great. Progressing phenomenally fast.

[BuffaloWing]

Now this looks like a cool idea. Keep us updated, thanks.

That looks great. Progressing phenomenally fast.

@BuffaloWing - very nice work.

Thanks for the kind words. I have always wanted to do this but like most people who love these old consoles I too have amassed a collection of adapters, game genies, and different region consoles over the years that I never carry it out. This forum thread has really re-sparked my interest.

Also, do you aim to make a replacement dust flap too?

Yes I will design a matching dust flap after I verify my dimensions. Whenever I'm designing a part that needs to fit against another, my workflow is to first create reference model(s) to build on top of or modify. Since there is no published engineering drawing of these parts, I have to go through this laborious process.

How much do you think it will cost per top panel?

An original replica of the panel is in the range of the cost of one Xbox360 controller to two depending where I send it out for printing. One thing to note is that the original panel has a 2.5mm wall thickness throughout. I think some areas can be carve out to save a few dollars. Another approach is to reuse the original panel and design a frame/trim to cover imperfect cuts.

[Taiyaki]

I sort of like the second idea of having just the cover and reusing the existing panel, but either way this is going to be a great expedition for Super Fami owners.

[IronGiant]

Another approach is to reuse the original panel and design a frame/trim to cover imperfect cuts.

I had been pondering this too but wouldn't it mean that even more plastic would need to be carved out of the original panel in order for the SNES cart to fit inside the new frame/trim (the frame/trim taking up extra space)? It would be a great (and cheaper) alternative to replacing the whole panel but I still think replacing the whole panel (and flap) is the ultimate solution.

As for the price - so maybe 30 bucks or so for new panel plus new flap?

[BuckoA51]

An original replica of the panel is in the range of the cost of one Xbox360 controller to two depending where I send it out for printing.

I think it's customary to quote prices in currency, we don't usually operate on a barter system Sounds like it might be prohibitively expensive for most folks, but still a very cool product/alternative for the hardcore.

[BuffaloWing]

I had been pondering this too but wouldn't it mean that even more plastic would need to be carved out of the original panel in order for the SNES cart to fit inside the new frame/trim (the frame/trim taking up extra space)? It would be a great (and cheaper) alternative to replacing the whole panel but I still think replacing the whole panel (and flap) is the ultimate solution.
As for the price - so maybe 30 bucks or so for new panel plus new flap?

How much to remove will depend on how the trim will be attached and the shape/style I choose. It could look like something like NEO GEO AVS to SNES2/SFC Jr or anything in between. Personally I'm shooting for the goal of printing the full panel replacement because I've already budgeted how much I'm willing to spend and so far it's well below what I first anticipated. It's not that I got money to burn, but when you work on a passion project it's usually not so much about cost (doing nothing is actually cheaper, right?) but enjoying the journey to accomplish what you seek out to achieve. This is not to say I won't be exploring the option of going with the trim route. It's always nice to have options.

Price: might want to 1.5x that at least... I'm based in U.S. and the cheapest xbox360 I've seen are going for at least $40-$45.

edit:

I think it's customary to quote prices in currency, we don't usually operate on a barter system

I didn't disclose the exact cost because the price varies depending on the option chosen and the original question was really about the final product which is yet to be developed. It may actually cost less or more but it shouldn't deviate too much. Also that does not include the flap. I didn't want to ignore the question so the best I could to do to give an approximation in a way that most game players will understand.

[IronGiant]

How much to remove will depend on how the trim will be attached and the shape/style I choose. It could look like something like NEO GEO AVS to SNES2/SFC Jr or anything in between. Personally I'm shooting for the goal of printing the full panel replacement because I've already budgeted how much I'm willing to spend and so far it's well below what I first anticipated. It's not that I got money to burn, but when you work on a passion project it's usually not so much about cost (doing nothing is actually cheaper, right?) but enjoying the journey to accomplish what you seek out to achieve. This is not to say I won't be exploring the option of going with the trim route. It's always nice to have options.

I couldn't agree more, that way it's possible to cater to various preferences.

How about the slightly recessed four colour Super Famicom logo that's on the original panel - would you be looking to produce a sticker for the replacement panels or maybe not bother? It would be a nice extra touch.

Price: might want to 1.5x that at least... I'm based in U.S. and the cheapest xbox360 I've seen are going for at least $40-$45.

Wired or wireless? Just looking at Amazon.com and wired Xbox 360 controllers are $12.99 and wireless are $34.99. Whatever, maybe just use a ball park figure of 40 bucks for now.

[Taiyaki]

Printing the whole panel has one huge advantage and that is that one can keep the original panel intact as well.

[BuffaloWing]

How much to remove will depend on how the trim will be attached and the shape/style I choose. It could look like something like NEO GEO AVS to SNES2/SFC Jr or anything in between. Personally I'm shooting for the goal of printing the full panel replacement because I've already budgeted how much I'm willing to spend and so far it's well below what I first anticipated. It's not that I got money to burn, but when you work on a passion project it's usually not so much about cost (doing nothing is actually cheaper, right?) but enjoying the journey to accomplish what you seek out to achieve. This is not to say I won't be exploring the option of going with the trim route. It's always nice to have options.

I couldn't agree more, that way it's possible to cater to various preferences.

How about the slightly recessed four colour Super Famicom logo that's on the original panel - would you be looking to produce a sticker for the replacement panels or maybe not bother? It would be a nice extra touch.

Price: might want to 1.5x that at least... I'm based in U.S. and the cheapest xbox360 I've seen are going for at least $40-$45.

Wired or wireless? Just looking at Amazon.com and wired Xbox 360 controllers are $12.99 and wireless are $34.99. Whatever, maybe just use a ball park figure of 40 bucks for now.

Personally, I won't doing the logo. Typically, print services frown upon people using trademark/logo from corporations unless it's your own.

Controller: I was using wireless as reference. I guess my roundabout way of giving the estimate is creating more confusion than help.

edit:

Printing the whole panel has one huge advantage and that is that one can keep the original panel intact as well.

But there is no way to avoid cutting the top housing (sides of the cartridge bay). Full panel just mean it's a less invasive mod.