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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:56 pm 


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Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 207
nakedarthur wrote:
Great news, just heard back from Tim and the NESRGB firmware is ready! It contains Wavebeam, Sony CXA2025AS, and Hardware Direct (FBX). You can grab it now over on the site.

FBX - sorry, I hope you don't mind your palette on there, I meant to ask for your permission first if it was going to be used. I put forth a few suggestions for what could be used for the third option and didn't know what I'd end up with. If it's a problem just let me know and I'll try to get it swapped out for Nestopia YUV or something similar.

Nice work, although there seems to be some mixup? Your post mentions "Hardware Direct (FBX)" which doesn't exist? Also the comparison pictures show the Composite Direct palette, but the NESRGB file appears to use the NTSC Hardware palette which isn't shown?

Also I hope FBX doesnt take offence, because he spent a lot of time creating some really accurate palettes and I think they're great :D
I guess were just at the stage where because we now have accurate palettes people are also looking for more "interpretative" palette options as well.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:58 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 457
@nakedarthur - Cool palette. One question though, on your blog post, you talk about the Sony CXA2025AS palette. Do you have that .pal file available as well? Since you can change palettes on the fly with the NT Mini, I'm always curious to see how different games look in person with all the different palette choices.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:09 pm 


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Google is your friend https://github.com/rdanbrook/nestopia/f ... 2025AS.zip


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:26 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
Nice work, although there seems to be some mixup? Your post mentions "Hardware Direct (FBX)" which doesn't exist? Also the comparison pictures show the Composite Direct palette, but the NESRGB file appears to use the NTSC Hardware palette which isn't shown?


My bad, I meant NTSC Hardware. It's labeled correctly on the site but I'm always getting them mixed up :)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:47 pm 


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nakedarthur wrote:
Link83 wrote:
Nice work, although there seems to be some mixup? Your post mentions "Hardware Direct (FBX)" which doesn't exist? Also the comparison pictures show the Composite Direct palette, but the NESRGB file appears to use the NTSC Hardware palette which isn't shown?


My bad, I meant NTSC Hardware. It's labeled correctly on the site but I'm always getting them mixed up :)

Ok, its just since the NESRGB firmware contains the NTSC Hardware palette it would be nice if it was shown in the comparison pictures - so we could easily see the difference between all three palettes (Wavebeam, Sony CXA2025AS, NTSC Hardware)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:31 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
Ok, its just since the NESRGB firmware contains the NTSC Hardware palette it would be nice if it was shown in the comparison pictures - so we could easily see the difference between all three palettes (Wavebeam, Sony CXA2025AS, NTSC Hardware)


Sorry I don't have time right now to retake all those (dumbly didn't keep savestates). If you go back to page 23 on this thread though you can see some comparisons between NTSC Hardware and Composite Direct.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:43 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
Ok, its just since the NESRGB firmware contains the NTSC Hardware palette it would be nice if it was shown in the comparison pictures - so we could easily see the difference between all three palettes (Wavebeam, Sony CXA2025AS, NTSC Hardware)


It's updated now and everything should be consistent. Photoshop to the rescue haha.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:03 pm 


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Thanks for all your hard work! I'm excited to try this out. BTW, out of all these palettes, which one looks the closest to an unmodded composite NES on your particular tv?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:33 pm 


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tjstogy wrote:
Thanks for all your hard work! I'm excited to try this out. BTW, out of all these palettes, which one looks the closest to an unmodded composite NES on your particular tv?


The Sony CXA2025AS looks pretty much identical to the NES coming in through the Composite on my KV-25XBR. I think Wavebeam is a little more balanced though and also took some cues from my Toshiba set, as well as some of the TVs I grew up with (all non-Sony).


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:35 pm 



Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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Just installed the nakedarthur's palette file. Looks great on my plasma LG, thanks.
It's nice to have more options.

One small detail: the palettes are in a different order in the .pof file.
It seems to me the order is: Wavebeam > NTSC Hardware > Sony CXA2025AS


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:51 pm 


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Ripthorn wrote:
Just installed the nakedarthur's palette file. Looks great on my plasma LG, thanks.
It's nice to have more options.

One small detail: the palettes are in a different order in the .pof file.
It seems to me the order is: Wavebeam > NTSC Hardware > Sony CXA2025AS


No problem, glad others are finding it useful! I think you're right about the order. I noticed it was different on my system than what Tim listed, but I was thinking my switch just wasn't wired correctly. I will re-label it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:17 pm 


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Location: New York
arthur - which palette do you like the most?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:45 am 


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tjstogy wrote:
arthur - which palette do you like the most?


I'm biased towards Wavebeam obviously haha, but I don't really have a favorite. It's awesome to have FBX's palettes now as an accurate baseline, and there are a lot of other cool ones out there to choose from like the Sony, BMF Final 3, Nestopia, RGBSource Hybrid, NES Classic, etc. I'm working on some tweaks and fine tuning for Wavebeam, but it will probably be a while until it's ready. Now that I can play on my NES it's a lot more convenient to test, and I plan on double checking things with other CRT monitors.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:25 am 


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Should probably start a new thread with your work. I want this one to die off as I've since given up on the palette work.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:37 am 


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No problem, thanks again for your hard work on the palettes.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:59 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1042
Location: Toronto, Canada
FBX wrote:
Good news!

Tim has made the new package of firmwares, which I have uploaded here:


http://www.firebrandx.com/graphics/nespalettes/nesrgbfirmware-03-2017.zip


Included is a text file detailing the switch assignments and which firmware contains your favorite sets.

Finally I can retire I believe this time! :mrgreen:

.


Finally got around to try this. For my own personal NESRGB, I use option 5 and the switch works great.

BUT, Option 10 is corrupt on 2 different NESRGB's I tried! The middle position of the switch shows black screen (but audio is heard) and one position seems like PC10 and another seems like a normal palette.

Has anyone tried Option 10??


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:59 pm 


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I sent Tim notification about this issue and included a package with the palette files just in case. Ultimately it's up to him to issue a fix. Sorry I can't help with this myself!
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:36 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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Location: Toronto, Canada
FBX wrote:
I sent Tim notification about this issue and included a package with the palette files just in case. Ultimately it's up to him to issue a fix. Sorry I can't help with this myself!


So this is a known issue? are you able to update your web site to warn people or remove from zip file?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:37 pm 


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leonk wrote:
FBX wrote:
I sent Tim notification about this issue and included a package with the palette files just in case. Ultimately it's up to him to issue a fix. Sorry I can't help with this myself!


So this is a known issue? are you able to update your web site to warn people or remove from zip file?


No this is not a known issue. I reported it because of what you said happened when you tried it.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:58 am 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 484
Location: Sydney, Australia
FBX wrote:
I sent Tim notification about this issue and included a package with the palette files just in case. Ultimately it's up to him to issue a fix. Sorry I can't help with this myself!


I'll take a look at this on Monday.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:15 pm 



Joined: 22 Jul 2016
Posts: 5
Quote:
Finally got around to try this. For my own personal NESRGB, I use option 5 and the switch works great.

BUT, Option 10 is corrupt on 2 different NESRGB's I tried! The middle position of the switch shows black screen (but audio is heard) and one position seems like PC10 and another seems like a normal palette.

Has anyone tried Option 10??


I commented a while back that firmware 10 didn't appear as expected on my front loading NES. However, rather than not displaying, on my machine it just looks like there is no difference between the non-PC10 palettes.

If the cause is the same, I wonder if the different behavior could be a result of having different NESRGB hardware revisions.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:19 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1042
Location: Toronto, Canada
No. The firmware file is just corrupt. 1 and 3 work, 2 is black screen. But 1 and 3 are not the correct palettes.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:14 am 


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I will say though that after flashing mine with option #5 and trying it out on the Framemeister, the "NSTC Hardware" palette looked fantastic on my digital display. Much better than I hoped actually.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:56 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1042
Location: Toronto, Canada
FBX wrote:
I will say though that after flashing mine with option #5 and trying it out on the Framemeister, the "NSTC Hardware" palette looked fantastic on my digital display. Much better than I hoped actually.


No doubt FBX. Your effort is very much appreciated!!!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:10 am 


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Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 3271
Location: Phoenix
FinalBaton wrote:
(tinfoil hat time)

I'm pretty sure that RGBSource is an alt of RGB32E : not only do they both constantly ridicule FBX's efforts, but they also have the same style of humour and same way of writing (with references contained in URL link over text that is in relation to the reference).

(I still love your NESCAP palette RGBSource, please don't be mad at me for unveiling your true identity, I'm sorry bud)

No hat required. IP address matches. Forum rules are clear:

"We operate a strict policy of one account per user."

RGBSource perma-banned, as that account should never have been created. RGB32E has been temp-banned for 2-weeks.

As you were, people.
-ud
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:20 am 


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Now that I have the far superior Datapath Vision E1s card compared to my previous Avermedia capture device, I decided to re-rip the NES Classic palette and compare the results. They were pretty much identical to the human eye, but nevertheless there were subtle changes of the RGB values in most of the entries. So in the interest of posterity, I'm offering the new rip as a last NES Classic offering. If anyone else wants to compare results, here is the technique used:

1. NES Classic fooled into outputting 720p (normally it defaults to 480p without EDID identification) with HDMI audio breakout box.
2. HDMI cable into DVI adapter and into the Datapath Vision E1s.
3. Input color range set to 709 FULL (the NES Classic uses full range, while the SNES Classic uses limited range).
4. Output window set to capture at 8-8-8 RGB.
5. Homebrew Test ROM that fills the screen with each color hacked into the NES Classic.
6. Fullscreen bitmaps taken of each color entry and saved to hard drive.
7. Bitmaps loaded into Adobe Photoshop, cropped, and the "Blur" >> "Average" tool used to remove the epilepsy protection.
8. RGB value sampled from bitmaps and converted into .pal format palette for emulators.

9. Repeated steps 1 through 8 to see if there were variances in RGB values (there were none)
10. Repeated steps 1 through 8 with the NES Classic hooked directly into the Datapath Vision E1s (meaning no EDID faking), and again, there were no color variations.

Here's the end resulting .pal file:
http://www.firebrandx.com/graphics/nesp ... ic-fbx.zip

So there you have it. Full transparent disclosure of the technique used to rip the NES Classic palette.

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:26 pm 


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Image Image

Seems pretty accurate. Composite Direct (left) is still my favorite, though. The yellow on the speed gauge looks a little too green to me on NES Classic (right).


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:42 pm 


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Udderdude wrote:
Image Image

Seems pretty accurate. Composite Direct (left) is still my favorite, though. The yellow on the speed gauge looks a little too green to me on NES Classic (right).


Yeah I'm not really a fan of the NES Classic palette, but it is what it is, and I wanted the best possible rip I could get of it. The Datapath Vision card allowed me to get full lossless samples of the colors, so it really tisn't going to get any better than that, unless a hacker finds the original hex values.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:28 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 507
I am guessing the answer is "Smooth," but are any of these palettes designed to be the "best fit" for PVMs? Not that it's super hard to flash them or anything, but I never set up a switch on my NESRGB, so I'd rather just do it once and be done with it. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:56 am 


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thebigcheese wrote:
I am guessing the answer is "Smooth," but are any of these palettes designed to be the "best fit" for PVMs? Not that it's super hard to flash them or anything, but I never set up a switch on my NESRGB, so I'd rather just do it once and be done with it. Thanks!


Full disclosure is of course I promote 'Smooth', however, I've got a PVM and a NES modded with an easy access JTAG port. What I can do is check some of the other palettes like 'Wavebeam' to see how they behave on my PVM. I'll try to list the quirks of the ones I test to give an idea of what to expect, and of course I will compare them to raw composite feed.

This will take me a day or so to look into, so I'll post back the findings then.
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