NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:

[austin532]

Alright FBX, this is really nit picking but maybe you should put the Natural on the left and Unstaturated on the right. Most comparison shots have the Before on the left and After on the right. I think it would be easier to compare the two that way as we naturally read from left to right.

Also, have you thought about making a video about how to change the palette? Sometimes people find it easier to watch a video then to read a wall of text including myself.

[FBX]

One good comparison would probably be that neon green color in the Link sprite from LoZ. Seems like it was quite loud on NESRGB natural, but it has been awhile since I had it in the system. I think some of the green in SMB2 had the same issue.

It's toned down on the Unsaturated palette obviously, but it's easier to see the difference when you click between the two palettes in Nestopia. Side-by-side it might not jump out as to how different they are.

[Blair]

Hey FBX, is there any way to use your palettes with emulators like NESutopia? (it has a palette switch function)

[FBX]

Hey FBX, is there any way to use your palettes with emulators like NESutopia? (it has a palette switch function)

At the bottom of my palette web page is a link to the .pal file, which is what emulators like Nestopia support.

[Blair]

thanks FBX!

oh, on a slightly related note have you ever tried any of Gabriel Pyron's color hacks and palate restoration patches?

[FBX]

oh, on a slightly related note have you ever tried any of Gabriel Pyron's color hacks and palate restoration patches?

I've watched several video demonstrations, but obviously his goal is quite a bit different than what I've been doing with this palette. His work is based on subjectively improving the artwork choices the original designers made. I stress it's subjective because quite honestly I found it to be hit-and-miss. Some samples I agree he made the artwork better, other samples I found I preferred the original. With that being the case, I'd rather just stick with the original intent 100% of the time because it's so subjective and getting away from the original experience.

With my own work, I try to go in the opposite direction, where I try to get as close to the original color output as I can. With the final v6 version, there's nothing left I can improve in that concept.

[Blair]

I definitely agree with you on that sentiment.

although, on his Final Fight CD color hack it actually did make a rather big difference. the original development/porting team made quite a few mistakes that actually hid graphical details with bad color choices. (brick wall in the first stage is a good example)

I would definitely be interested in more restorative color hacks like that, otherwise I found some of his others to be a bit "garish" (I prefer neutral tones)

[Guspaz]

Installed this on my NESRGB tonight, and it looks... right. Not sure what else to say, it just seems right

Thanks for the work, even if I was skeptical back when you started, it does look good.

[copy]

I wonder if the Hi-Def NES guys would consider adding this palette.

[FBX]

I wonder if the Hi-Def NES guys would consider adding this palette.

Would be nice. It's about the only reason I haven't invested in one (I don't want to give up my palette).

[Blair]

I bet if somebody contacted Kev and game Tech USA they would probably look into integrating FBX's pallet with a future firmware update.

[thebigcheese]

I just want to make absolutely certain of something before I close up my NES - this palette replaces the original natural palette, right? I didn't ever bother installing a switch for the palettes because I only ever wanted to use natural, so I need to know if I need to move that jumper or if I can just leave it as is. It would be somewhat of a pain to remove at this point, so hopefully I don't have to.

[FBX]

I just want to make absolutely certain of something before I close up my NES - this palette replaces the original natural palette, right? I didn't ever bother installing a switch for the palettes because I only ever wanted to use natural, so I need to know if I need to move that jumper or if I can just leave it as is. It would be somewhat of a pain to remove at this point, so hopefully I don't have to.

Well this is difficult for me to tell which actual position it is in because I have a toggle switch on mine. This is what Tim said he programmed it to:

Code: Select all

Numbers match with silkscreen.
3) Unsaturated-V6,
2) FCEUX,
1) Playchoice 10 

But on my toggle switch, Unsaturated-V6 is the middle position. Must be in how it's wired up.

[thebigcheese]

I just want to make absolutely certain of something before I close up my NES - this palette replaces the original natural palette, right? I didn't ever bother installing a switch for the palettes because I only ever wanted to use natural, so I need to know if I need to move that jumper or if I can just leave it as is. It would be somewhat of a pain to remove at this point, so hopefully I don't have to.

Well this is difficult for me to tell which actual position it is in because I have a toggle switch on mine. This is what Tim said he programmed it to:

Code: Select all

Numbers match with silkscreen.
3) Unsaturated-V6,
2) FCEUX,
1) Playchoice 10 

But on my toggle switch, Unsaturated-V6 is the middle position. Must be in how it's wired up.

Oh, perfect. On the original configuration, 3 is natural, so it did indeed just replace the natural palette. Wonderful, nothing else has to change Wired up the cable and just kinda left it in there after the update, just in case. Now I need to buy another cable to wire into my N64 for future updates...

[RGB32E]

I wonder if the Hi-Def NES guys would consider adding this palette.

Would be nice. It's about the only reason I haven't invested in one (I don't want to give up my palette).

You sure FBX didn't plagiarize the default palette on the Hi-Def NES?

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

I wonder if the Hi-Def NES guys would consider adding this palette.

Would be nice. It's about the only reason I haven't invested in one (I don't want to give up my palette).

You sure FBX didn't plagiarize the default palette on the Hi-Def NES?

You sure you're not just a smug piece of shit detractor who thinks putting a winky emoji at the conclusion of a discourteous statement makes it witty, and therefore acceptable?
Post in FBX's thread only if you have something positive to contribute, instead of outlandish and unfounded nonsense.

[thebigcheese]

Calm down, sheesh.

Y'all see that MLiG includes some info on the new firmware in their latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGSidnlOhd4. I'm thinking of putting together a quick little video comparing the original natural palette to the new unsaturated palette.

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

Calm down, sheesh.

Y'all see that MLiG includes some info on the new firmware in their latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGSidnlOhd4. I'm thinking of putting together a quick little video comparing the original natural palette to the new unsaturated palette.

With respect thebigcheese, you may not be aware of how RGB32E has dogged FBX with negativity throughout this whole endeavor; my response wasn't out of the blue or a knee-jerk reaction.

Back on topic, if you're still uncertain as to whether you have the Unsaturated V6 correctly wired up, I'd recommend booting up the title screen of SMB3, it's really obvious as to whether it's set properly or not. If it's PC10, the background will be piss yellow, and if it's FCEUX, the sky and Mario will be much more vibrant than normal. Unsaturated should look exactly that: subdued colors, balanced tones. Hope it's set up right for ya, and enjoy!

[ceramiclion]

A couple months back, my friend Ste from HD Retrovision made me these nifty adapters that make updating the firmware a breeze:



No longer do I have to strip wires and jerry-rig the interface. With these adapters, I just plug the ribbon cable directly into the adapter and insert the adapter into the jtag holes. This may seem like an afterthought, but I am considering revisiting those pesky cyan colors on the Unsaturated palette. The first area in Metroid is a great testing ground for getting a look at how the cyan color is interacting in the palette. I may do some emulator test screenshots and post them for a vote on what looks typically best.

Will these become available for purchase?

[Guspaz]

You may want to ask HD Retrovision themselves, perhaps they can put them up on their shop. If you have some pin wires (like the kind my rPi kit came with for connecting to the breadboard), then you can use those pin wires to make the connection very easily.

[FBX]

I wonder if the Hi-Def NES guys would consider adding this palette.

Would be nice. It's about the only reason I haven't invested in one (I don't want to give up my palette).

You sure FBX didn't plagiarize the default palette on the Hi-Def NES?

Just when I thought you'd given up on trolling me, you come pull a stunt like this out of the blue. The sad part is you don't even realize just how badly you expose the kind of person you are to EVERYONE when you post crap like that.

[thebigcheese]

I put together some comparison screenshots. I was going to make a video, but it ended up seeming kinda pointless. So here are screenshots comparing the original natural palette to the new unsaturated V6 palette: http://imgur.com/a/HQJL5

[Guspaz]

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but the MLiG video on the AVS did a whole bunch of comparisons between different options, and a bunch of them included composite (clearly captured directly via Framemeister) and Unsaturated v5. It may not be the latest version, but in all the comparisons it basically looks just like composite, while none of the others (like AVS, FCEUX, or HDN) do.

[FBX]

I put together some comparison screenshots. I was going to make a video, but it ended up seeming kinda pointless. So here are screenshots comparing the original natural palette to the new unsaturated V6 palette: http://imgur.com/a/HQJL5

My web page on the project provides screenshots of the most important differences:

http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html



.

[austin532]

All of the colors are improved for the most part except for red which has more of a brownish color. I know that's how it looks with composite but it's always something that bothered me. That's just me being nit picky though.

[sofakng]

Is it possible to use the USB Blaster (programmer) to backup the original NESRGB firmware before overwriting it?

[yxkalle]

Is it possible to use the USB Blaster (programmer) to backup the original NESRGB firmware before overwriting it?

No, but there is no need of doing so. Tim has all the different firmwares on his homepage.

[Link83]

From reading this thread I understand the latest update has three included palette options:-
-Unsatured v6
-PlayChoice-10
-FCEUX

The first two options have very good reasons for being included-
-Unsatured v6 is a very close match to the original NTSC PPU Composite palette values
-The PlayChoice-10 palette matches the original RGB PPU used in the PlayChoice-10 and VS. System arcade machines

However, although I know the FCEUX palette comes from the PC emulator, I dont understand what the palette values were originally based on? Or is it completely made up?

Also some other palette questions I have:-
-Has anyone performed a direct capture of the PAL PPU Composite palette values, to see if it differs in any way from the NTSC PPU values? (Especially since NTSC = Never Twice the Same Color)

-Are the PlayChoice-10 palette values based on a direct capture from the original RGB PPU? If not how can we be sure they are 100% accurate?

-Has anyone checked the 'official' palette values Nintendo uses in NES emulators for the Wii, Wii U, 3DS, and soon NES Mini Classic? It would be interesting to know if they all use the same palette (Ignoring the filters applied to the Wii U versions) I realise that the emulator developers could have just taken an already existing palette from a PC emulator, but I just thought it would be interesting to know what Nintendo considers the correct NES palette values to be.

[FBX]

However, although I know the FCEUX palette comes from the PC emulator, I dont understand what the palette values were originally based on? Or is it completely made up?

Probably arbitrary, but I only retained it as an option because it's significantly different from the other palettes, and some people may have gotten used to it from the original NESRGB firmware. The Unsaturated palette was basically meant to be a better offering than the YUV (natural) palette, so this is why I replaced YUV with it on my latest firmware package.

-Has anyone performed a direct capture of the PAL PPU Composite palette values, to see if it differs in any way from the NTSC PPU values? (Especially since NTSC = Never Twice the Same Color)

Unaware if anyone has tried it. With regard to NTSC, I compared against 3 NTSC front-loaders, which all gave very close to the same values on each color entry. I averaged the color value for each color, but the variance was undetectable to the naked eye anyway.

-Are the PlayChoice-10 palette values based on a direct capture from the original RGB PPU? If not how can we be sure they are 100% accurate?

I was lead to believe they are 100% accurate, but I never heard how these colors were obtained and by whom.

-Has anyone checked the 'official' palette values Nintendo uses in NES emulators for the Wii, Wii U, 3DS, and soon NES Mini Classic?

Unfortunately the various 'official' emulation palettes are very murky/muddy, and the speculation is this was to cut down on risk of law suits over epileptic seizures from bright flashing colors. I do plan on doing a direct capture of the available palette of the NES-mini, but that won't come out until November.

[leonk]

How were the latest YUV values acquired?

I was for some reason under the impression that Unsaturated was always targetting XRGB and YUV RGB CRT monitors. YUV simply looks better on my PVM.

Either are much better than original "natural". When ever I do an RGB mod, prior to flashing the firmware, I run through SMB3 and am surprised how bad original one looks color wise. Spoiled.