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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:55 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
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Location: Australia
Very nice work!
I will have to pick your brain re ID bits as there are a few Sony here that may be the same.

One shoupd always keep wires away from the power board and especially the flyback.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:43 pm 



Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 43
Yeah, there even is a trick to get power off the flyback by winding wire at some area, and never use hot ground unless you want to fry your console/video card :P


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:22 pm 



Joined: 19 Sep 2017
Posts: 16
Hi Guys, hoping you can have a look at this and confirm or debunk my suspicion. I have a CRT equiped with a NXP OM8371PS, which looks like a clone of a philips chip, which seems identical to a TDA935X.

Datasheet: http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets/1150/501094_DS.pdf

Looking at the datasheet, it seems to be an interesting chip:

-Built in Teletext
-Built in OSD
-RGB/YUV ext inputs.

The main issue i see is that there's no blanking pin and I suspect blanking is activated digitally by some kind of data bus.

What do you guys think? Any way to hack this puppy?

Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:01 pm 


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Pin 45


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:22 pm 



Joined: 19 Sep 2017
Posts: 16
Syntax wrote:
Pin 45

Cheers mate, duh now that you point it out :)

I'll wire a pot to VCC and see if it blanks.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:07 pm 


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Location: Australia
I kinda hate it when a tda has component and RGB on the same pins.

It's supposed to change modes depending on voltage but sometimes the flag is locked off in the jungle.

Best of luck.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:08 pm 



Joined: 18 Sep 2012
Posts: 121
Syntax wrote:
I kinda hate it when a tda has component and RGB on the same pins.

It's supposed to change modes depending on voltage but sometimes the flag is locked off in the jungle.

Best of luck.


If it's actually a close of the TDA as he said, it will go from component to composite.
Every tv I tried this resulted in composite.

By the way, in the tvs you had success with voltage into YPbPr blanking pin changing to RGB, did you just wired sync with Green?
I remember when I was trying I was using a Y cable with a breakout box sending green and sync the same time for the same pin.
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:03 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 256
fandangos wrote:
Syntax wrote:
I kinda hate it when a tda has component and RGB on the same pins.

It's supposed to change modes depending on voltage but sometimes the flag is locked off in the jungle.

Best of luck.


If it's actually a close of the TDA as he said, it will go from component to composite.
Every tv I tried this resulted in composite.

By the way, in the tvs you had success with voltage into YPbPr blanking pin changing to RGB, did you just wired sync with Green?
I remember when I was trying I was using a Y cable with a breakout box sending green and sync the same time for the same pin.


I've successfully done this with a TV running a VCT4942 Jungle and sync went through AV1 composite port, RGB through CrYCb ports respectively.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:11 am 



Joined: 19 Sep 2017
Posts: 16
Syntax wrote:
It's supposed to change modes depending on voltage but sometimes the flag is locked off in the jungle.
Best of luck.


Cheers! Found this on page 89:
Switching between RGB and YUV can be realised via the YUV-bit in subaddress 2BH.

On page 111, Fast blanking voltages are specified but there's no mention of YUV.
I have little hope given how much seems to be controlled digitally on this chip (which I don't understand how).
Regardless, I'll test it out and report back.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:11 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 256
djcalle wrote:
Syntax wrote:
It's supposed to change modes depending on voltage but sometimes the flag is locked off in the jungle.
Best of luck.


Cheers! Found this on page 89:
Switching between RGB and YUV can be realised via the YUV-bit in subaddress 2BH.

On page 111, Fast blanking voltages are specified but there's no mention of YUV.
I have little hope given how much seems to be controlled digitally on this chip (which I don't understand how).
Regardless, I'll test it out and report back.


I'm currently preparing to test the TV Bus Manipulator that etim developed. I will be attempting to change a register in the jungle via I2C. This may be the sort of thing you may have to do to achieve this if the switch is disabled.

However...if the chip is all in one this may not be possible.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:28 pm 



Joined: 18 Sep 2012
Posts: 121
MarkOZLAD wrote:
djcalle wrote:
Syntax wrote:
It's supposed to change modes depending on voltage but sometimes the flag is locked off in the jungle.
Best of luck.


Cheers! Found this on page 89:
Switching between RGB and YUV can be realised via the YUV-bit in subaddress 2BH.

On page 111, Fast blanking voltages are specified but there's no mention of YUV.
I have little hope given how much seems to be controlled digitally on this chip (which I don't understand how).
Regardless, I'll test it out and report back.


I'm currently preparing to test the TV Bus Manipulator that etim developed. I will be attempting to change a register in the jungle via I2C. This may be the sort of thing you may have to do to achieve this if the switch is disabled.

However...if the chip is all in one this may not be possible.


Does this bus manipulator has to keep running after changing the desired bit? Or is it something that you can remove from the tv after the change is done?
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:59 pm 


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Location: Australia
First thing I asked.

It has to stay connected to the TV at all times to interrupt, its not actually flashing the chip.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:44 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 256
Syntax wrote:
First thing I asked.

It has to stay connected to the TV at all times to interrupt, its not actually flashing the chip.


Yep, the TV Bus Manipulator as it stands intercepts all I2C communication to the Jungle and allows for the modification of the messages, bit by bit, to ensure the jungle's internal switches are set the way we want them. While it would be preferable to be able to permanently reprogram the TVs chips this is still an excellent bit of work by Tim. The Cypress PSoC chips cost only $US4. I was in the initial stages of investigating this myself but it would have taken me months (at least!) to get to where Tim has got us. Very grateful that Tim has released this. I hope to test my implementation tonight.

Here is the link again to Tim's TV Bus Manipulator

Now if we could find a way to do the All in One chips. I note that the UOC III TDA110xx/120xx chips specify that they are multi master I2C compatible. Would be good to know if we can wait a short time after startup of the TV and then set the IE2 (or IE3) bits on the Jungle via the I2C serial bus and have them stay or whether the inbuilt micom of the chip will overwrite the bits.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:04 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1147
There's an RGB modded KV-27FV300 for $80 in Burnaby, BC
https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/bnc/ele ... 88155.html


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:32 am 



Joined: 19 Sep 2017
Posts: 16
MarkOZLAD wrote:
So Syntax and I have been working on a way to perform the RGB mods on sets that usually require an OSD snip and a switch by instead muxing the OSD and external RGB.


Great work guys, was reading up on your findings and it reminded me of a set I was looking at (I don't have a set just checking the SM). It looks like they're muxing the teletext and OSD inputs into the jungle IC
See below screenshot of the diagram:
Spoiler: show
Image


Full SM here, Page 16:
https://elektrotanya.com/panasonic_tx-29p80t_chassis_mx-10.pdf/download.html

There's no inline resistors on the teletext RGB lines and it also has a BLK in and out with some diodes in between.

I know some Aussie Wegas with similar design came up on this thread before but anyway, I thought I'd share.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:03 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 256
MarkOZLAD wrote:
I hope to test my implementation tonight.


After a rough night of destroying and repairing traces whilst removing resistors on the I2C lines I failed to get the Bus Manipulator working. TV won't turn on from Standby when I plug in the new micro controller....

I have proven that my I2C intercepts are in the right place, (if I join my wires the TV starts up fine), and have 5V and ground going to the Bus Manipulator microcontroller.

I did make a dumb mistake where I wired in my LEDs the wrong way, I thought the Cathode was the long leg. Dumb mistake. Should've rechecked before I built it.

I'll rewire my LEDs and see if I can at least get a status light to show up.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:16 am 


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Posts: 35
Location: Florida
djcalle wrote:
Hi Guys, hoping you can have a look at this and confirm or debunk my suspicion. I have a CRT equiped with a NXP OM8371PS, which looks like a clone of a philips chip, which seems identical to a TDA935X.

Datasheet: http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets/1150/501094_DS.pdf

Looking at the datasheet, it seems to be an interesting chip:

-Built in Teletext
-Built in OSD
-RGB/YUV ext inputs.

The main issue i see is that there's no blanking pin and I suspect blanking is activated digitally by some kind of data bus.

What do you guys think? Any way to hack this puppy?

Cheers.



Had this on my pc,hope it helps.
https://imgur.com/oVPuseM

Pin 5 is a good place to start.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:22 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 256
Pikkon wrote:
djcalle wrote:
Hi Guys, hoping you can have a look at this and confirm or debunk my suspicion. I have a CRT equiped with a NXP OM8371PS, which looks like a clone of a philips chip, which seems identical to a TDA935X.

Datasheet: http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets/1150/501094_DS.pdf

Looking at the datasheet, it seems to be an interesting chip:

-Built in Teletext
-Built in OSD
-RGB/YUV ext inputs.

The main issue i see is that there's no blanking pin and I suspect blanking is activated digitally by some kind of data bus.

What do you guys think? Any way to hack this puppy?

Cheers.



Had this on my pc,hope it helps.
https://imgur.com/oVPuseM

Pin 5 is a good place to start.


I think that pin 5 might be for the Scart Pin 8 AV auto switching rather than RGB insertion.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:26 am 



Joined: 19 Sep 2017
Posts: 16
Pikkon wrote:
Had this on my pc,hope it helps.
https://imgur.com/oVPuseM

Pin 5 is a good place to start.


Thanks man, it's interesting as it provides more insight than the datasheet I had, from the block diagram, pin 5-8 seem to be "ADC IN" of the I2C-BUS TRANSCEIVER. I wouldn't know where to start messing with these :)

MarkOZLAD wrote:
I think that pin 5 might be for the Scart Pin 8 AV auto switching rather than RGB insertion.

Thanks for your input.
Hmmm, not sure. Pin 8 and 16 of SCART have no notion of PAL/NTSC, Pin 5 here is an input pin and described as "Forced NTSC Selection"


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:14 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 256
djcalle wrote:

MarkOZLAD wrote:
I think that pin 5 might be for the Scart Pin 8 AV auto switching rather than RGB insertion.

Thanks for your input.
Hmmm, not sure. Pin 8 and 16 of SCART have no notion of PAL/NTSC, Pin 5 here is an input pin and described as "Forced NTSC Selection"


Pin 5 has two possible uses.

The INNSW2 is the one you are looking for but I don’t know whether you need to change IE2 register for it to work


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:12 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Just picked up a KV-13FM13 for $3 USD, and I was hoping to mod it as a first try. I'm still reading through the 50+ pages of the thread, but I've learned quite a bit. The service manual seems to indicate it has a CXA2131CS.

https://goo.gl/DFb9ZZ (service manual)
https://imgur.com/a/HBqJy ( CXA2131CS )

I don't know if the system has a separate closed-captioning setup (I can't really tell from the service manual) that can be used as a secondary RGB input.

Quote:
Yup, if the second picture there is from that TV. Leads 25-28 on CXA2131CS even have little arrows pointing at them, practically screaming "mod us!


Is that where I tap my SCART connector?

Quote:
You don't have to remove the chassis in many cases, but I'd recommend discharging the tube.


Does this mean to discharge the anode?

I keep seeing references to "blanking" -- what is this?

I'm still doing my research, but any information is really appreciated. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:50 am 



Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 23
intrepidbreak wrote:
Just picked up a KV-13FM13 for $3 USD, and I was hoping to mod it as a first try. I'm still reading through the 50+ pages of the thread, but I've learned quite a bit. The service manual seems to indicate it has a CXA2131CS.

https://goo.gl/DFb9ZZ (service manual)
https://imgur.com/a/HBqJy ( CXA2131CS )

I don't know if the system has a separate closed-captioning setup (I can't really tell from the service manual) that can be used as a secondary RGB input.

Quote:
Yup, if the second picture there is from that TV. Leads 25-28 on CXA2131CS even have little arrows pointing at them, practically screaming "mod us!


Is that where I tap my SCART connector?

Quote:
You don't have to remove the chassis in many cases, but I'd recommend discharging the tube.


Does this mean to discharge the anode?

I keep seeing references to "blanking" -- what is this?

I'm still doing my research, but any information is really appreciated. Thanks!


Hey, I'm sure I'm not as knowledgeable as others here on the subject, but I've gotten a few of these to work.

Without looking at anything but the datasheet for the jic, it looks like your relevant pins will be 25-28 or 29-32 for blanking/b/g/r to your connector of choice(scart in your case). Both/either set(s) of inputs may work.

I'm not going to embarrass myself trying to accurately define 'blanking', but for your purposes you just need to know that you want it(the blanking pin correlating to your rgb input set, so pin 25 for rgb on 26-28, or pin 29 if you input rgb over 30-32) connected to a low voltage source (usually vcc on the jic, pin 33 in your case) so your injected rgb image displays. This is usually done thru a switch so you can return to original function to mess with osd related settings if need be, without opening one of these up again. I've heard of sets being picky about voltage such that you need a pot to tweek it, but all the sony's that I've modded were perfectly happy with vcc from the jic. It's nice and easy to pull ground from the jic as well(pin 40), but I've had mixed results inputting sync there, I usually prefer to just tap into the back of a composite/s-vid port somewhere on the chassis.

It's also worth noting that if your tv has s-video or component, you'll (probably) want to use a luma input for sync, instead of composite. It's been my experience that if a tv has luma inputs, sending csync in thru the composite inputs is shifted too far to the left due to the way the composite input is processed(voultar has the correct explanation somewhere in this thread). What's important is that this isn't correctable even in service menu for most sets because it's so out of spec, but simply inputting sync over a luma input seems to result in a (mostly) properly centered image, you'll probably still need to mess with the hpos in the service menu.

Also, related to luma for sync, some tv's won't even look at the s-video input of the tv if there isn't a cable plugged in to it(found this out the hard/aggravating way). IIRC I fixed this by tying one of the svideo ground pins to ground in the chassis thru a switch so I could toggle it back to regular composite.

Discharging the tube is discharging the anode, yes.

I hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:18 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 256
intrepidbreak wrote:
Just picked up a KV-13FM13 for $3 USD, and I was hoping to mod it as a first try. I'm still reading through the 50+ pages of the thread, but I've learned quite a bit. The service manual seems to indicate it has a CXA2131CS.

https://goo.gl/DFb9ZZ (service manual)
https://imgur.com/a/HBqJy ( CXA2131CS )

I don't know if the system has a separate closed-captioning setup (I can't really tell from the service manual) that can be used as a secondary RGB input.

Quote:
Yup, if the second picture there is from that TV. Leads 25-28 on CXA2131CS even have little arrows pointing at them, practically screaming "mod us!


Is that where I tap my SCART connector?

Quote:
You don't have to remove the chassis in many cases, but I'd recommend discharging the tube.


Does this mean to discharge the anode?

I keep seeing references to "blanking" -- what is this?

I'm still doing my research, but any information is really appreciated. Thanks!


I think an OSD Mux method using the RGB pins 30-32 is your best bet. The OSD RGB lines have 6k8R/680R voltage divider which suggests this jungle expects 0.5Vp-p RGB. Pin 29 is your blanking, probably just solder a 5V line to a switch and then to the leg of resistor R1078 that is closest to the micro controller.

It may be possible to disconnect the capacitors of pins 26,27 and 28 and feed the RGB in there, using 25 for blanking but I'm not sure if those pins will be active. There may be an ID setting in the Service Menu which enables them, I don't know though.

To get 0.5Vp-p from your Scart RGB, place a 30-Ohm resistor before the 75-Ohm termination.


Last edited by MarkOZLAD on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:21 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 256
lolitsevan wrote:
It's also worth noting that if your tv has s-video or component, you'll (probably) want to use a luma input for sync, instead of composite. It's been my experience that if a tv has luma inputs, sending csync in thru the composite inputs is shifted too far to the left due to the way the composite input is processed(voultar has the correct explanation somewhere in this thread). What's important is that this isn't correctable even in service menu for most sets because it's so out of spec, but simply inputting sync over a luma input seems to result in a (mostly) properly centered image, you'll probably still need to mess with the hpos in the service menu.


This is not really my experience. Yes I've seen left shift but never so much that it cannot be overcome with the service menu. I know that it has been reported on this thread though.

Still, not bad advice though.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:14 pm 



Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Posts: 6
GeneraLight wrote:
There's an RGB modded KV-27FV300 for $80 in Burnaby, BC
https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/bnc/ele ... 88155.html


This is my TV. I posted about it here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155&p=1300227#p1300227 See that page for any pics and diagrams related to this particular tv.

I am holding off on selling it because I see this weird moving bands up and down on the screen when using these RGB inputs, but only noticeable on solid blocks of medium or dark shades or colors, not bright shades or colors or areas with more detail, see either of these videos
. It looks worse than I remember it looking a few months ago. See either of these videos that I just took:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TkhN7 ... wf5DcukGFt

A friend recommended I upgrade to coax wiring and plugs, but this was all I could find for wiring https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/part ... able/42223 I'm not even sure if i'm looking at the right stuff on digikey. Where do you guys get coax cabling for RGB mods? Do you even use coax cabling at all?
I do have a SNES composite cable that I was considering cutting into pieces and using this cable as my RGB lines to go from the BNCs to the OSD. The cable's console end had already been cut off by a friend using it for another project.
If anyone else can give me some advice about this banding issue, I would really appreciate it.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:28 pm 


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Posts: 831
Location: Australia
RGBHV is super cheap in AUS at the moment.

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/w3410-5-c ... bhv-cable/


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:41 pm 



Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Posts: 6
Thanks. Does it help to include a number of cores in your search? I can try searching for 3 core shielded wire. I just need some tips on how to search for coax wire. Somehting like digikey.ca, or maybe mouser, would be best because my friends are ordering from digikey on monday.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:16 pm 


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Posts: 831
Location: Australia
Micro coaxial is fairly cheap on digikey right now. That was just a quick search.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:09 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 256
If you have a recycling center or something of the like nearby, I reckon KVM VGA cables are the go. Look for thick VGA cables that have keyboard and mouse connectors on them. These cables usually have RGBHV all with individual shields.

Oh, and instead of searching for Coax cable, try searching for shielded video cable.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:35 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 256
Just wanted to make a quick note about the OSD RGB Mux method.

When implemented the OSD and External RGB signals are essentially being put through an "Max" function. This means that the signal will show the maximum of either the OSD RGB or the External RGB. In practice this means that the OSD will not show well on bright screens. This is because the external RGB is already maxed out and the OSD RGB can't be any brighter.

It's by no means perfect but in my belief still far superior to an OSD snip switch.


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