TV RGB mod thread

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cyborc
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by cyborc »

MarkOZLAD wrote:Now I’m confused about which models we are discussing.
Sorry for the confusion. I was talking about the Sharp. The "ix2933ce" is really just a toshiba ta1268n jungle. Sharp likes to rename chips sometimes...for some reason.
zFleeman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by zFleeman »

matt wrote:
MarkOZLAD wrote:The inlines in the RGB lines are 6800 Ohm so the mux resistors are 1100 ohm (1000 ohm would likely be fine).

So send 75 ohm terminated RGB lines into 1100 ohm resistors and then connect to the RGB circuits. The legs of R2024, R2025 and R2026 farthest from micro controller might be good spots to attach wires.

For blanking use the 8 Bit Guy RGB mod part 2 method. Lift the leg of R2027 that is closest to the micro controller and inject 5V into it.
I did an RGB mod to a 13K-M100 a while back. 1k ohm resistors worked well.

RGB on this TV is very dark with 75 ohm termination (I think I remember reading that this jungle IC expects 1v p-p). In my case I was able to get a satisfactory picture by adjusting the flyback pot and the RGB cutoffs in the service menu, but there may be a better way to deal with this.
I'm a little lost with this mod, actually. I thought it was going to be a breeze, but I guess I'm not the best at knowing how to connect things on a pcb. I'm not able to see an OSD or a game at all.

I removed the old, 1.8kO terminating resistors, but I don't want to hook anything up to their old pads (small SMD --seems difficult), so I need to relocate them. Where should I ground them? Right now I have them going to a ground point on an unused connector towards the RF module. And I thought I found 5V on IC2101 but I'm not sure that it's actually... working? Here's a rough sketch of how I have things set up.
Spoiler
Image
The "ext" triangle-looking section is where I'm pretty sure that I'm messing things up. I'm hooking up the mux resistor (currently 1.1kO) directly to the leg of the inline resistors that points towards and connects to the jungle chip. The terminating resisotrs are coming off of this triangle and going to ground.... I guess they're not even in line with the original resistors any more...

Any insight would be great. I feel pretty close.
Last edited by zFleeman on Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

zFleeman Looks right to me.
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matt
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by matt »

MarkOZLAD wrote:1.0Vp-p RGB huh? Very interesting.

I wonder if the termination resistor should be changed to 180 ohm. That should give 1.0Vp-p from external RGB.

Would then use 1600 ohm mux resistors.
Don't trust me on the 1vpp thing. I can't remember where I read it (possibly somewhere buried in this thread) and wasn't able to find a good enough datasheet to verify it.

The picture does indeed improve with higher value terminating resistors. However, I was under the impression that 75 ohms was needed for signal quality from the console side. Am I wrong?
cyborc wrote:
MarkOZLAD wrote:Now I’m confused about which models we are discussing.
Sorry for the confusion. I was talking about the Sharp. The "ix2933ce" is really just a toshiba ta1268n jungle. Sharp likes to rename chips sometimes...for some reason.
I believe you're mistaken here. The Sharp IC has a different pinout from the ta1268n (blanking is on pin 17 vs 14 on the Toshiba chip). I'd thought that it was a rebranded Sanyo chip.

Around the same time I experimented on an RGB mod on a Sanyo DS13320, which uses an LA76834NMP jungle. It behaved the same as the Sharp, although the TV had other problems and I ended up discarding it.
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matt
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by matt »

zFleeman wrote: I'm a little lost with this mod, actually. I thought it was going to be a breeze, but I guess I'm not the best at knowing how to connect things on a pcb. I'm not able to see an OSD or a game at all.

I removed the old, 1.8kO terminating resistors, but I don't want to hook anything up to their old pads (small SMD --seems difficult), so I need to relocate them. Where should I ground them? Right now I have them going to a ground point on an unused connector towards the RF module. And I thought I found 5V on IC2101 but I'm not sure that it's actually... working? Here's a rough sketch of how I have things set up.
Your schematic looks correct to me, if you're getting nothing it's likely that something is connected wrong.

Have you tested your blanking with a composite signal? For me this is usually the first step.

I usually just put my terminating resistors on the RGB connector. Soldering to those SMD pads is a pain.

IIRC I used pin 1 of the 5v regulator (IC101) for blanking.
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cyborc
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by cyborc »

matt wrote:

I believe you're mistaken here. The Sharp IC has a different pinout from the ta1268n (blanking is on pin 17 vs 14 on the Toshiba chip). I'd thought that it was a rebranded Sanyo chip.

Around the same time I experimented on an RGB mod on a Sanyo DS13320, which uses an LA76834NMP jungle. It behaved the same as the Sharp, although the TV had other problems and I ended up discarding it.
Unless there are different versions of the 13k-m100, the service manual even states that ic201 is a toshiba ta1268n.
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matt
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by matt »

cyborc wrote:Unless there are different versions of the 13k-m100, the service manual even states that ic201 is a toshiba ta1268n.
You are correct. Sorry, I must have gotten my datasheets mixed up!
snappleman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by snappleman »

Sup everyone, I'm trying to enable the component output on this TV (Philips 19ST200L17) but I'm having some trouble getting it working.

Here's the datasheet:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5evc4ohuvja10 ... 3.pdf?dl=0

I checked out the datasheet and noticed the chip supports component but the TV doesn't have the connectors. I went into the service mode and turned the component video on, and I can switch to it via the remote. So far what I've done is soldered leads to where the connector would be on the board, but that gets me no video and when I connect a component source along with a composite or svideo source simultaneously, the TV goes off. When I use connections further down the circuit I do get working component video on that input but it's distorted somewhat (washed out colors, warping and discoloration), I tested the lines for DC and each line has 13v running through it.

Datasheet for the IC:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h3q3zmsgs5lpl ... X.pdf?dl=0

I'm not great with electronics, I have modded a couple TVs and I work on guitar tube amps but that's been very simple soldering and such. I don't understand circuits too well so this is having me scratching my head a bit...
Last edited by snappleman on Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

matt wrote:
cyborc wrote:Unless there are different versions of the 13k-m100, the service manual even states that ic201 is a toshiba ta1268n.
You are correct. Sorry, I must have gotten my datasheets mixed up!
In my experience with that family of chips I’d say you will be fine with either 0.7Vp-p or 0.5Vp-p patterns.
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Pikkon
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Pikkon »

snappleman wrote:Sup everyone, I'm trying to enable the component output on this TV (Philips 19ST200L17) but I'm having some trouble getting it working.

Here's the datasheet:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5evc4ohuvja10 ... 3.pdf?dl=0

I checked out the datasheet and noticed the chip supports component but the TV doesn't have the connectors. I went into the service mode and turned the component video on, and I can switch to it via the remote. So far what I've done is soldered leads to where the connector would be on the board, but that gets me no video and when I connect a component source along with a composite or svideo source simultaneously, the TV goes off. When I use connections further down the circuit I do get working component video on that input but it's distorted somewhat (washed out colors, warping and discoloration), I tested the lines for DC and each line has 13v running through it.

Datasheet for the IC:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h3q3zmsgs5lpl ... X.pdf?dl=0

I'm not great with electronics, I have modded a couple TVs and I work on guitar tube amps but that's been very simple soldering and such. I don't understand circuits too well so this is having me scratching my head a bit...
I modded a Philips tv a few years ago with component.

Did you add 0.1 caps and 75ohm resisters?
snappleman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by snappleman »

Pikkon wrote:
I modded a Philips tv a few years ago with component.

Did you add 0.1 caps and 75ohm resisters?
Resistors yes, caps no... I'll go and do that today and see if it works.
Shiozaki
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Shiozaki »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
Shiozaki wrote:
tiny surface mount, I guess I could try and tombstone some components on purpose, IDK, any input is always welcome.

https://imgur.com/a/scTNXie
Surface mount makes it a pain but all the same concepts apply are there any jumpers on the RGB circuits lines that could provide an easy in?
This is what I've come up with, tell me itll work lol.
I removed the surface mount 534 535 536 and 537 and just grounded it at the connector with the 75R's.
https://imgur.com/a/KPw6tB9
snappleman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by snappleman »

snappleman wrote:
Pikkon wrote:
I modded a Philips tv a few years ago with component.

Did you add 0.1 caps and 75ohm resisters?
Resistors yes, caps no... I'll go and do that today and see if it works.
Just got around to it, adding the caps didn't work. The picture goes dark and scrambled as if it lost sync:

Image

When I take out the caps it looks "better" but with this strange discoloration pattern:

Image

Like I said before I'm connecting the signal to V1/V2/V3 on the chassis:

Image

Anywhere before that gives me no picture. But I'm not planning on messing about any farther until I do some reading up on this and maybe get some guidance from here.
snappleman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by snappleman »

Sorry for the barrage of posts everyone, but I read up a bit and looked through the schematics and got the component video working by soldering to the ITV unit instead of the unpopulated connectors.

I also searched this topic and found some stuff MarkOZLAD said about another TV with this chip in it, and he suggested getting RGB by switching to the composite AV input that the component line is connected to, I hooked up RGBS(sync on composite) to the component connector I made and then went into the service menu and disabled component video input, and turns out MarkOZLAD was right! RGB on AV input, but I can only switch to it by going into service, enabling component video, switching to component input, disabling component input and switching to AV, so I assume I will have to add a switch that sends 1-3v to blanking as suggested and maybe I can add a SCART connector as well and switch between component and RGB as needed? So thanks for the retroactive help!
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Shiozaki wrote:
MarkOZLAD wrote:
Shiozaki wrote:
tiny surface mount, I guess I could try and tombstone some components on purpose, IDK, any input is always welcome.

https://imgur.com/a/scTNXie
Surface mount makes it a pain but all the same concepts apply are there any jumpers on the RGB circuits lines that could provide an easy in?
This is what I've come up with, tell me itll work lol.
I removed the surface mount 534 535 536 and 537 and just grounded it at the connector with the 75R's.
https://imgur.com/a/KPw6tB9
That looks right.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
zFleeman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by zFleeman »

Sharp 13-KM100 Results

I got everything to work just fine with the 75ohm terminator and 1100ohm mux. Thank you for the help, everyone! I had to put this onto a breadboard to better visualize what I was doing incorrectly. I didn't have the terminating resistor in the right spot. Now I'm going to upgrade its caps and put it all back together.

Image
Image
Image
zFleeman wrote: Another wrinkle in this situation: The RGB lines do not have any resistors between them and ground. The blanking grounding resistor has a value of 2.17kO.

So, in summary, here are the differences with this board (SB314) that I'm noticing. Let me know if they change this mod from SB315.
  • Inline resistor for blanking is a diode, not a resistor. Can this be replaced with a 180 ohm like in Syntax's schematic?
  • The only grounding resistor present on the board was a 2.17kO resistor. This seems like it was different from arithmaldor's. Are the empty resistor slots still okay to be terminated with a 75 ohm and combined with a 360 ohm for my external RGB lines?
And if it wouldn't be too much trouble, I was wondering if I could get some help on this spongebob mod. I can't find a schematic for the SB314 anywhere, but the inline resistors for the RGB lines were[/] 1kO before I swapped everything to match this image, and there's a diode on the blanking inline (which is now a 180ohm). I've quoted some of the other concerns I have with this mod. I know I'll probably have to go back to square one with this fella, but that's fine by me!
Drew Sebastino
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Drew Sebastino »

Hello; so, this isn't a post addressed to a specific model TV, but I see that most if not all RGB mods that preserve the OSD attach the RGB input directly to the bus going from the microcontroller to the jungle IC, which seems to have the effect of blending the OSD and inputted image together when the OSD is active.

Has anyone ever attempted using a multiple channel, 2:1 multiplexer and wiring the blanking output of the microcontroller to the select pin of the multiplexer? That way, the OSD won't be blended in with the image, but will completely "cover" it as it does normally.

I don't know if that's making any sense; I drew a schematic for what I'm trying to describe, but it doesn't look like this forum supports attachments?
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Osirus
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Osirus »

Sony KV-20M10
CXA1465AS Jungle IC

Had to desolder the unused Analog RGB inputs (16, 17, 18), which were all tied together to ground:
Spoiler
Image
Cleaned up with desoldering braid and used a meter to make sure none of them were touching anything they shouldn't be anymore. Then I made a 1k/1k voltage divider to pull the 9V Vcc on Pin 2 of the jungle down to 4.5V to use for blanking. I connected R. G, and B via 75 ohm terminated connections with 0.1u caps to the newly desoldered pins, connected sync to the Composite Video input, applied the 4.5V to Ys (Pin 15) on the jungle IC, and:
Spoiler
Image
Textbook. OSD is intact due to the built-in mixing functionality of the jungle. I was worried about the unused inputs being disabled via I2C, especially since other sets with this same jungle IC are, but I got lucky here.
zFleeman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by zFleeman »

I'm looking at picking up a Sanyo DS19330 from somebody on Craigslist, and I'm seeing some promising things on page 28 of this manual. Does this mod look simple? I've searched around this forum and saw that this person tried it on a similar set a while ago -- looks like they didn't get too far. Also, how can I know if this one is digital vs analog rgb? That also seems to be a toss-up on this tv.

I looked at Mark's 0.7v table would indicate that I would use 910ohm on the external lines with 75ohm terminating?

Out
Spoiler
Image
In
Spoiler
Image
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Osirus
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Osirus »

zFleeman wrote:I'm looking at picking up a Sanyo DS19330 from somebody on Craigslist, and I'm seeing some promising things on page 28 of this manual. Does this mod look simple? I've searched around this forum and saw that this person tried it on a similar set a while ago -- looks like they didn't get too far. Also, how can I know if this one is digital vs analog rgb? That also seems to be a toss-up on this tv.

I looked at Mark's 0.7v table would indicate that I would use 910ohm on the external lines with 75ohm terminating?
That looks right. Remove R842, R843, and R844 and do your injection there.
zFleeman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by zFleeman »

Osirus wrote:
That looks right. Remove R842, R843, and R844 and do your injection there.
Sounds promising. But before I commit to driving out to get this set -- I'm having a hard time understanding what this person was going through with the smaller version of this TV. How can I find out if the RGB lines are digital or not? The chip they were trying to put RGB into was an LA76843 and mine is a LA76834.
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Osirus
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Osirus »

zFleeman wrote:
Osirus wrote:
That looks right. Remove R842, R843, and R844 and do your injection there.
Sounds promising. But before I commit to driving out to get this set -- I'm having a hard time understanding what this person was going through with the smaller version of this TV. How can I find out if the RGB lines are digital or not? The chip they were trying to put RGB into was an LA76843 and mine is a LA76834.
I can't find a datasheet for that IC, but the schematic has a voltage divider in the OSD lines with 5.6k ohm inline and 860 ohm ground, assuming 5V out of the microcontroller this leaves 0.7V going into the jungle, which is a strong indicator of standard analog RGB.
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Downcry
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Downcry »

Total novice here, looking for advice.

I want to turn my KD-34XBR960 into a 1080i/540p VGA monitor.
I hope to inject 33.75Khz RGBHV in place of the OSD; bypassing the labyrinth of digital processing ICs this set uses.
I'm not concerned with preserving any of the set's original inputs/functionality.

I think I've sniffed out the right location, but I have no idea where to start.



What does YSYM mean? Is it blanking?

What kind of components would I need between my VGA source and these OSD connections?



The following was taking from the official service manual for this set:
("CX" is the video-out board that plugs directly into the base of the tube)


Here's the Block Diagram from the Service Manual -
Spoiler
Image
Here's the CRT Drive Schematic -
Spoiler
Image
Much Thanks :mrgreen:
zFleeman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by zFleeman »

I just got the Sanyo DS19330 home, and I'll start work on it tomorrow. I was looking at the schematic, and I had the unfortunate realization that the current grounding resistors and inline resistors are surface mount. I'm really really not looking forward to messing with such tiny parts -- I was wondering if anybody has any tips or products that I should order that help with soldering wires onto surface mount leads. I'm anticipating a lot of hot glue usage in my near future.

Components:
Image

Geometry on Composite -- Good!:
Image
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cyborc
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by cyborc »

zFleeman wrote:I just got the Sanyo DS19330 home, and I'll start work on it tomorrow. I was looking at the schematic, and I had the unfortunate realization that the current grounding resistors and inline resistors are surface mount. I'm really really not looking forward to messing with such tiny parts -- I was wondering if anybody has any tips or products that I should order that help with soldering wires onto surface mount leads. I'm anticipating a lot of hot glue usage in my near future.
according to the service manual, this tv is hot chassis. so if you are planning to add rgb inputs to it, it must always be plugged into an isolation transformer going forward.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/69976 ... e=4#manual
zFleeman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by zFleeman »

cyborc wrote:according to the service manual, this tv is hot chassis. so if you are planning to add rgb inputs to it, it must always be plugged into an isolation transformer going forward.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/69976 ... e=4#manual
Sadly, I have no idea what this means. What does hot chassis mean? Are you saying that I should:
  • discharge this TV with the screwdriver-touching-the-anode cap method (I've done this several times)
  • add RGB
  • plug the tv into an isolation transformer
  • plug the isolation transformer into the wall
  • enjoy?
If those are my steps, what isolation transformer do you recommend? There are a lot of different options for a lot of different prices. This TV was made in 2003.
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cyborc
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by cyborc »

zFleeman wrote:
cyborc wrote:according to the service manual, this tv is hot chassis. so if you are planning to add rgb inputs to it, it must always be plugged into an isolation transformer going forward.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/69976 ... e=4#manual
Sadly, I have no idea what this means. What does hot chassis mean? Are you saying that I should:
  • discharge this TV with the screwdriver-touching-the-anode cap method (I've done this several times)
  • add RGB
  • plug the tv into an isolation transformer
  • plug the isolation transformer into the wall
  • enjoy?
If those are my steps, what isolation transformer do you recommend? There are a lot of different options for a lot of different prices. This TV was made in 2003.
http://teaganm.cademo.com/images/other/ ... soxfmr.htm
That explains it better than I ever could.

I'm still learning about all this myself, but any information you read about arcade monitors and isolation transformers would pretty much apply to your Sanyo TV as well.
zFleeman
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by zFleeman »

Can you tell me where exactly that you saw this was a hot chassis? Nothing specifies that in the service manual that I can find.

Don’t worry though, I am not going to open this thing up without getting confirmation about how dangerous it is. Some guy on Reddit thinks it isn’t a hot chassis TV given that it is from 2003, and that it’s plug has the bulbous prong so it only fits in the electrical socket one way.

Or can somebody give a second opinion?
MKL
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MKL »

zFleeman wrote:Or can somebody give a second opinion?
Of course it's not a hot chassis. It's the usual modern design with switching power supply that provides isolation from the mains. Note on page 30 the different ground symbols on the two sides of the switching transformer: pin 3 = hot ground, pin 16 = cold ground. Only if your servicing the hot side of the PSU (the area within the thick line) you need to use an isolation transformer (or disconnect the ground of the testing device, oscilloscope, etc.).
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vol.2
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by vol.2 »

zFleeman wrote:I had the unfortunate realization that the current grounding resistors and inline resistors are surface mount. I'm really really not looking forward to messing with such tiny parts

Probing surface mount stuff is generally easier to me; you can usually do everything from the same side of the board, so tracing it out in your head is easier. You can replace the surface mount stuff with through-hole when you have to do so.
The main thing is that you respect the values. I am also in the habit of using the same type of component (ceramic for ceramic, etc) because there are situations where it's generally necessary for one reason or another.

To use a through-hole component, you can bend the legs over to make little flat feet and then you solder the feet to pads. Using a small tip helps, but it's easier that dicking around with surface mount if you don't have the experience, and it's less risky. It's possible to melt too much solder underneath of a surface mount cap and bridge the pads together if you're not careful.
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