TV RGB mod thread

[XeD]

How would one do that? A few passive components?

[Syntax]

Try using the cps2 composite video for sync.
You are probably feeding ttl csync to the set at the moment.

[fandangos]

Just wanted to report that s501 and s502 helped a bit putting my image into center.
And yes. it was that white switch with black base.

Also I have a question about the new schematics posted.

if I find the correct values of the blanking resistors what would trigger it beeing enabled or disabled?
This new schematics make the mod easier but a switch on blanking is still necessary if you intend to use the other inputs like composite or svideo, right?

Edit: nevermind just noticed it comes from the console 5v side.

[MarkOZLAD]

Just wanted to report that s501 and s502 helped a bit putting my image into center.
And yes. it was that white switch with black base.

Also I have a question about the new schematics posted.

if I find the correct values of the blanking resistors what would trigger it beeing enabled or disabled?
This new schematics make the mod easier but a switch on blanking is still necessary if you intend to use the other inputs like composite or svideo, right?

Edit: nevermind just noticed it comes from the console 5v side.

I possibly should’ve made that clearer. Pin 16 of Scart carries the RGB Fast Blanking voltage.

Could just as easily connect to an internal 5V source and add a switch if you like.

[elexor]

Hi I was wondering if someone could help me with a tv i just attempted to rgb mod my sony KV-AR29M31 I used a 4pdt switch to switch between the internal osd and the rgb in. My problem is the screen does't seem to be blanking properly I'm only getting my rgb picture where the orginal osd should be not in full screen. I have connected 5v to the jungle chips blanking pin. the orginal osd r g b and blanking have been pulled out of circuit so I'm not sure whats going on.

here's a pic https://imgur.com/a/17TL3

[fandangos]

Tried the new schematics and I'm sadly to report it won't work with my sony BA-5D chassis sony RGB mod.
It's possible that the small board I made has some problem but this is the result:

Tried with the Diodes in both directions to see if anything would change.
With the black strip facing the jungle IC I a very very faint image of the menu with 5v blanking off.



With the black strip facing the OSD IC I get this with blaking off:



With blanking on on both situations I can see a very very faint menu and those blue segments of the screen are present.
I guess this might be what a friend was telling me the other day, a physics thing called ringing. Is that it?
When the resistors are wrong part of the OSD image starts to show?

And also I used a 104 capacitor, that is a 0.1uF caps right? The only one for sale was a 0.1uF 250v.
Is the high voltage a problem? As far as I understand this just means the cap can work at higher voltage.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also another topic I would like to ask. I'm about to get another sony for cheap, a KV-2959T.
Service manual here:
https://www.electronica-pt.com/esquema/ ... 959t-1411/

That uses the CXA1465AS jungle IC that has a digital R G B input and a analog R G B input.
Datasheet here:
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-p ... 465AS.html

The digital R G B input is labeled OSD R G B, pins 10,11, 12.

Analogue R G B pins 16, 17, 18 are labeled EXT R G B and even the resistors and caps are present according to the service manual.
Does anyone have any experience with a Sony Set with ready to go RGB input?
Could be possible that this input is disabled on the IC so I won't be able to mod this tv?

[fandangos]

Hi I was wondering if someone could help me with a tv i just attempted to rgb mod my sony KV-AR29M31 I used a 4pdt switch to switch between the internal osd and the rgb in. My problem is the screen does't seem to be blanking properly I'm only getting my rgb picture where the orginal osd should be not in full screen. I have connected 5v to the jungle chips blanking pin. the orginal osd r g b and blanking have been pulled out of circuit so I'm not sure whats going on.

here's a pic https://imgur.com/a/17TL3

I'm not so knowledgeable as many here but if I remember correctly some sets have a halftone or halfblanking pin on the jungle IC. You may need to lift it up from the circuit.

[lukilla]

Maybe try with 3.3v?.

[MarkOZLAD]

Hi I was wondering if someone could help me with a tv i just attempted to rgb mod my sony KV-AR29M31 I used a 4pdt switch to switch between the internal osd and the rgb in. My problem is the screen does't seem to be blanking properly I'm only getting my rgb picture where the orginal osd should be not in full screen. I have connected 5v to the jungle chips blanking pin. the orginal osd r g b and blanking have been pulled out of circuit so I'm not sure whats going on.

here's a pic https://imgur.com/a/17TL3

Isn't it a BG3R chassis?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60130

[MarkOZLAD]

Tried the new schematics and I'm sadly to report it won't work with my sony BA-5D chassis sony RGB mod.
It's possible that the small board I made has some problem but this is the result:

Tried with the Diodes in both directions to see if anything would change.
With the black strip facing the jungle IC I a very very faint image of the menu with 5v blanking off.



With the black strip facing the OSD IC I get this with blaking off:



With blanking on on both situations I can see a very very faint menu and those blue segments of the screen are present.
I guess this might be what a friend was telling me the other day, a physics thing called ringing. Is that it?
When the resistors are wrong part of the OSD image starts to show?

And also I used a 104 capacitor, that is a 0.1uF caps right? The only one for sale was a 0.1uF 250v.
Is the high voltage a problem? As far as I understand this just means the cap can work at higher voltage.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is your problem with Blanking or the RGB mixed with OSD RGB? I'm having trouble understanding.

Also another topic I would like to ask. I'm about to get another sony for cheap, a KV-2959T.
Service manual here:
https://www.electronica-pt.com/esquema/ ... 959t-1411/

That uses the CXA1465AS jungle IC that has a digital R G B input and a analog R G B input.
Datasheet here:
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-p ... 465AS.html

The digital R G B input is labeled OSD R G B, pins 10,11, 12.

Analogue R G B pins 16, 17, 18 are labeled EXT R G B and even the resistors and caps are present according to the service manual.
Does anyone have any experience with a Sony Set with ready to go RGB input?
Could be possible that this input is disabled on the IC so I won't be able to mod this tv?

In my experience the sets with Digital RGB for OSD and an External RGB inputs are great candidates for modding. Input your RGB and blanking signals into the closed caption header. May need to alter the service menu to enable the CCD inputs. Might need a better service manual. Looks like your set has 1kOhm termination resistors R159, R160 and R161 that will need to be removed/replaced by 75Ohm.

As a bonus, perfect OSD without even trying!

[viletim]

Grammar time.

has 1kOhm termination resistors ... 75Ohm.

1k ohm, 75 ohm, 75-ohm, 75Ω, 75R <-- Like this!

1kOhm, 75Ohm, 75ohm <-- Not this!

Ohm is an English word like any other, the symbol for ohm is the Greek omega (Ω), but sometimes the letter R is used instead or the unit is simply omitted. The word ohm is not a symbol and it shouldn't be capitalised. You wouldn't write 'He lives in a 2Bedroom flat' would you?

The reason why I bring this up is a capital O looks just like a zero when appended to a number. The term '75Ohm' is very easily misread as '750 ohm'. In the interest of clarity, please keep Os away from numbers. I've seen this mistake made by several people around here recently and it bothers me a bit.

[Star1]

In the interest of clarity, please keep Os away from numbers. I've seen this mistake made by several people around here recently and it bothers me a bit.

Shame slashed zeroes aren't a thing anymore

[MarkOZLAD]

Grammar time.

Noted.

I’ll pick up 50 papers at play lunch to make up for it.

[fandangos]

Is your problem with Blanking or the RGB mixed with OSD RGB? I'm having trouble understanding.

I was just showing what happens with the blaking using the new schematics.

I think I figured out the problem with my mod, there are 2 resistors, one 680 ohms to gnd and a 4.7k resistor in line for the OSD RGB.
So according to http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/voltag ... calculator

5v input
680 ohms R1
4700 ohms R2
Equals 0.632 v

So I guess I don't need the 5.6K resistor on the OSD RGB lines but I guess that this screws up all the math for the 1k resistor on the external RGB line?

From the schematics:
(Source Voltage - Diode Voltage Drop) * (Second Inline Resistor + Terminating Resistor)/(First In line Resistor + Second Inline Resistor + Terminating Resistor)

(5v - 0.7) * (4700 + 680) / (1000 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) = 3.41???????
This can't be right.

[MarkOZLAD]

I was just showing what happens with the blaking using the new schematics.

I think I figured out the problem with my mod, there are 2 resistors, one 680 ohms to gnd and a 4.7k resistor in line for the OSD RGB.
So according to http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/voltag ... calculator

5v input
680 ohms R1
4700 ohms R2
Equals 0.632 v

So I guess I don't need the 5.6K resistor on the OSD RGB lines but I guess that this screws up all the math for the 1k resistor on the external RGB line?

From the schematics:
(Source Voltage - Diode Voltage Drop) * (Second Inline Resistor + Terminating Resistor)/(First In line Resistor + Second Inline Resistor + Terminating Resistor)

(5v - 0.7) * (4700 + 680) / (1000 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) = 3.41???????
This can't be right.

fandangos,

The schematic was never designed to be a one size fits all solution. It is instead a proof of concept that OSD RGB and External RGB can be successfully muxed. Whilst the resistor numbers/configuration shown in the diagrams will work for many sets, if you wish to use this concept you will need to adapt it to your TV's exact requirements.

Your use of the equation is wrong

(5v - 0.7) * (4700 + 680) / (1000 + (75 *75)/(75+75))

If you give me a diagram showing exactly how you've wired it I can help you analyse it better.

For starters I think you need to remove the 680-Ohm resistor from the chassis.

Then the result should be something more like

(Source Voltage - Diode Voltage Drop) * (Second Inline Resistor + Terminating Resistor)/(First In line Resistor + Second Inline Resistor + Terminating Resistor)
(5V - 0.7) * (1000 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) / (4700 + 1000 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) = 0.778V

That result is a little higher than we've been aiming for but I suggest it would work fine.

If you use a 910-Ohm resistor inline you would get close

(5 - 0.7) * (910 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) / (4700 + 910 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) = 0.72V

[fandangos]

I was just showing what happens with the blaking using the new schematics.

I think I figured out the problem with my mod, there are 2 resistors, one 680 ohms to gnd and a 4.7k resistor in line for the OSD RGB.
So according to http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/voltag ... calculator

5v input
680 ohms R1
4700 ohms R2
Equals 0.632 v

So I guess I don't need the 5.6K resistor on the OSD RGB lines but I guess that this screws up all the math for the 1k resistor on the external RGB line?

From the schematics:
(Source Voltage - Diode Voltage Drop) * (Second Inline Resistor + Terminating Resistor)/(First In line Resistor + Second Inline Resistor + Terminating Resistor)

(5v - 0.7) * (4700 + 680) / (1000 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) = 3.41???????
This can't be right.

fandangos,

The schematic was never designed to be a one size fits all solution. It is instead a proof of concept that OSD RGB and External RGB can be successfully muxed. Whilst the resistor numbers/configuration shown in the diagrams will work for many sets, if you wish to use this concept you will need to adapt it to your TV's exact requirements.

Your use of the equation is wrong

(5v - 0.7) * (4700 + 680) / (1000 + (75 *75)/(75+75))

If you give me a diagram showing exactly how you've wired it I can help you analyse it better.

For starters I think you need to remove the 680-Ohm resistor from the chassis.

Then the result should be something more like

(Source Voltage - Diode Voltage Drop) * (Second Inline Resistor + Terminating Resistor)/(First In line Resistor + Second Inline Resistor + Terminating Resistor)
(5V - 0.7) * (1000 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) / (4700 + 1000 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) = 0.778V

That result is a little higher than we've been aiming for but I suggest it would work fine.

If you use a 910-Ohm resistor inline you would get close

(5 - 0.7) * (910 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) / (4700 + 910 + (75 *75)/(75+75)) = 0.72V

I did a child drawing because I have no idea how to make a proper schematics as you did.



I took a solder board and made your schematics. I know it's not suppose to be a for everything solution but I guess that if I replace the resistors for the correct value it would work.
The problem in my city is that no place sells smd and it's a pain to solder regular resistors on smd points.
So I was wondering if it would be possible mathematically to just replace the 5.6k or the 1k resistor on the board (the new schematics) and accommodate the 4.7k and 680 ohm termination resistors.

if I just remove the 680 ohm resistors and left the 4.7k

(5 - 0.7) * (1k + (75 *75)/(75+75)) / (4700 + (there's no 75 ohm termination resistor on the OSD line here). = 0.949
It's closer.

EDIT: By the way I think it's useless try to calculate and fit the tv resistors into the equation now.
What I'll do is, remove the smd resistor on the R G B exit of the OSD IC and wire it directly to the 5.6k.
This will bypass the tv resistors and it should work.

[Syntax]

Your picture is fine beside forgetting to add the 75R terminations on the console end of things.

[MarkOZLAD]

I did a child drawing because I have no idea how to make a proper schematics as you did

I used Excel for my Schematic. I've made a career doing it! Make the column width and height small and the cells become little squares to do with as you please.

A good way it is to draw it by hand on paper and take a photo. Saves so much time. Borrow the kids coloured pencils

Using the custom external PCB should be fine too. I expect people to find all sorts of creative ways to modify their TV's circuits to achieve these results.

The 5600/1000 combination is just one way. There are many more. I might make a spreadsheet to help with the maths.

Your picture is fine beside forgetting to add the 75R terminations on the console end of things.

Yep, as Syntax says, your diagram looks mostly correct except you need to put the 75R terminations to ground on the External RGB lines, before the 1000R, and as discussed original OSD inline and termination resistors gone.

[MarkOZLAD]

I have created a spreadsheet to help people perform the calculations for the inline resistors for the OSD RGB Mux method.

Here it is..

[fandangos]

This is gold and should be added to the first post.

[buttersoft]

I have created a spreadsheet to help people perform the calculations for the inline resistors for the OSD RGB Mux method.

Here it is..

Thank you! That's great, saves me using my brain. I do have some questions...

Have you transposed some algebra? In the printed picture of the equation it's R1/(R1+R2) but in the formula for cell B8, it's R2/(R1+R2). That or you could change the R1 and R2 elsewhere

I assume the target output voltage is whatever your jungle takes? (normally 0.7Vp-p of course, but i have some 0.5Vp-p sets)

Could you add a section for the FBL calculation as well? (possibly including a diode on the OSD FBL line?)

And does this same calculation apply to VGA ports? Do they have the same internal termination value? I suppose i could measure it, but what if it's infinite? I guess you'd just ignore that part of the calculation.

[MarkOZLAD]

Thank you! That's great, saves me using my brain. I do have some questions...

Have you transposed some algebra? In the printed picture of the equation it's R1/(R1+R2) but in the formula for cell B8, it's R2/(R1+R2). That or you could change the R1 and R2 elsewhere

I assume the target output voltage is whatever your jungle takes? (normally 0.7Vp-p of course, but i have some 0.5Vp-p sets)

Could you add a section for the FBL calculation as well? (possibly including a diode on the OSD FBL line?)

And does this same calculation apply to VGA ports? Do they have the same internal termination value? I suppose i could measure it, but what if it's infinite? I guess you'd just ignore that part of the calculation.

Yep, the R1/(R1+R2) thing is a mistake. I'll address it. Should be R2/(R1+R2). Only put the formula in to look pretty!

Yes, the target voltage is the RGB signal strength your Jungle wants, normally 0.7Vp-p or 0.5Vp-p.

I'll do something for the blanking.

EDIT:

Go and re-download it now. Should be how you want it.

[MarkOZLAD]

And does this same calculation apply to VGA ports? Do they have the same internal termination value? I suppose i could measure it, but what if it's infinite? I guess you'd just ignore that part of the calculation.

If it's infinite set the "Console internal termination Resistor" cell to Zero.


...Oh, hang on, better add an IF statement for that!

EDIT:

Works for Console termination set to 0 now.

[buttersoft]

Sorry to be a pain, it's totally awesome now though, i'm going to use it for mods from now on

EDIT: actually, on that TEAC CTM5122H set you and i have been talking about, the OSD has termination resistors on the RGB lines after the diodes, which are themselves after the inline resistors. Do you then calculate R1 as OSD RGB inline + OSD RGB termination?

[MarkOZLAD]

Sorry to be a pain, it's totally awesome now though, i'm going to use it for mods from now on

EDIT: actually, on that TEAC CTM5122H set you and i have been talking about, the OSD has termination resistors on the RGB lines after the diodes, which are themselves after the inline resistors. Do you then calculate R1 as OSD RGB inline + OSD RGB termination?

I would rip R656, R657 and R658 out and replace R636,R637 and R638 with 5000R. Then use 620R on your Ext RGB lines. (for 0.5Vp-p)

...or just rip R656, R657 and R658 out and use 100R inline on the Ext RGB lines (for 0.5Vp-p). If you want to use this method you could put solder 100R and 75R together, put the leg of the 100R in the holes left closest to the OSD and the leg of the 75R in the hole left to ground. Then solder the RGB lines between the 100R and 75R. Easy!

[fandangos]

I can't thank Syntax, Mark and Tim enough for their knowledge and of course for sharing it.

The math is 100% solid and works perfectly!

Made my board according to the schematics, just missing the 75 ohm terminator resistors because they are in the back of the scart female plug.






This made the mod much easier and better.

[MarkOZLAD]

Nicely done fandangos.

I hate the idea of having a set that is OSD snipped so I am very glad to have played a part in this.

Care to share the model number?

[fandangos]

Nicely done fandangos.

I hate the idea of having a set that is OSD snipped so I am very glad to have played a part in this.

Care to share the model number?

It's a KV-29FV305 with a BA-5D chassis and a CXA2154/5AS jungle IC.
This is a great TV but sadly it has some bad convergence problems that even spending days working on it didn't get perfect as I expected.

The next TV I'm going to work on is a Sony KV-2959T. It's one of those old sony sets.

Also there's a place here in my city that sells tons of CRTs and those are all turned on at the same time.
There's a SEMP tv there, flat screen, side by side with another sony and I know those are not properly calibrated and it's being fed composite video but the image looks amazing compared to the sony set.

Maybe I'll get that. Those are ridiculous cheap but I'm having a storage problem here and a wife problem LOL

[cyborc]

Mark and Syntax,

Thanks so much for the spreadsheet and schematic. Few questions.

The set I plan on modding is a Sony KV-27S42 with BA-4D Chassis.

It has 5.6k ohm resistors on the OSD lines just like the Sanyo in your schematic. However, it also has 680 ohm resistors to ground on each OSD line. Should I remove them?

Also, the jungle blanking input has a 100 ohm resistor, I assume I need to remove that and bridge the pads?

[MarkOZLAD]

Mark and Syntax,

Thanks so much for the spreadsheet and schematic. Few questions.

The set I plan on modding is a Sony KV-27S42 with BA-4D Chassis.

It has 5.6k ohm resistors on the OSD lines just like the Sanyo in your schematic. However, it also has 680 ohm resistors to ground on each OSD line. Should I remove them?

Also, the jungle blanking input has a 100 ohm resistor, I assume I need to remove that and bridge the pads?

Yes remove the 680R on the OSD RGB lines. The holes left will be a good place to inject your external RGB.

How are you going to implement blanking? If you are going to use internal 5V, just do it as per normal. If you are going to use external blanking maybe attach the ext blanking diode to the leg of the 100R closest to the Jungle, this bypassing it.