TV RGB mod thread

[Akina86]

SONY - KV-13M20 MOD
i looked through this thread and i only found a couple of people talking about it. the information i did find said that this TV doesn't accept MUX modding. i don't care too much about the MUX side of things; a simple mod will work for me. here is where i need some help.

i was able to mod my set to a point. i get a nice sharp screen synced and everything, but the screen is kind of dark, like the contrast is not adjusted correctly. i have included some photos of what i see after the mod. it kind of reminds me of what an RGB signal looked like coming from a PC Engine or Turbografx 16 without an RGB amp, but this is worse.




the way i modded this was by tapping the RGB in lines to the jungle chip. when i used .1uf caps and 75ohm resistors; like the basic mod, the screen hardly showed anything. but if i simply inject the RGB signal without anything added the picture looks better. while messing with it, i noticed, right next to the jungle chip, there are some open vias with an arrow pointing to them and they are labeled RGB and BLK in. i soldered some header pins into it and checked the signal, it was exactly the same as when i soldered directly to the jungle chip!



at this point, i am assuming that there are some resistors i probably need to remove or swap out to get the screen brighter, but i don't quite have the schematic reading abilities to know how to look for this. any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! i have had this TV for a while in this current state and i am anxious to hopefully get this one done.

i included a schematic blow up of the route between the OSD chip and the Jungle chip in the next post.

[Akina86]

here is a diagram that shows the route from the OSD to the JUNGLE.

i hope this helps. and again, any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. thank you.

[Zronium]

I'm new to this stuff and a bit lost. I'm trying to add YPbPr to a KV20FS12 BA-5. I can't seem to get sync. I'm almost certainly missing a step, or did something incorrectly, finding info for this is hard. No S-Video on this model. I've run sync into CVBS2 for video 2 to no result, also tried running it into Y1 with enabling s-video in the service menu (with and without a 10uF Cap. One random post suggested it. the cap was polarized, not sure if that matters, or I put it the wrong direction) Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.


I made a 2 second diagram of what I've done so far. https://imgur.com/gallery/fWEPPuN I also removed R1346 to isolate the blanking pin (not sure if needed)

I've tinkered some more. I did get Sync working on CVB2, however it was super far left, not fixable with the service menu and / or the physical horizontal pos switch.

Apparently Sync from S-video fixes this, Followed Bazookaben's guide to re-add the S-video functionality, still no sync. (because I'm only using Y, I didn't re-add anything from C)

To Sum up everything I've done so far:

Y, Pb, Pr inputs > 75ohm termination > 0.1uF > jungle

Y split after the 75ohm into the start of Y1.

Re-added the missing components on the Y1 line. (C1002 10uF, C1367 10uF, IC1002) It was also suggested to remove JR1083, so I did that too.

Changed ID-1 from 03 to 19 in the service menu.


Still just getting infinite scroll. I'm not sure if there's an indicator that my TV has S-video selected, if there is, I'm definitely not getting it.

[KPackratt2k]

SONY - KV-13M20 MOD
i looked through this thread and i only found a couple of people talking about it. the information i did find said that this TV doesn't accept MUX modding. i don't care too much about the MUX side of things; a simple mod will work for me. here is where i need some help.

Spoiler

i was able to mod my set to a point. i get a nice sharp screen synced and everything, but the screen is kind of dark, like the contrast is not adjusted correctly. i have included some photos of what i see after the mod. it kind of reminds me of what an RGB signal looked like coming from a PC Engine or Turbografx 16 without an RGB amp, but this is worse.

https://postimg.cc/QFkVfX84
https://postimg.cc/zy1VwLrH

the way i modded this was by tapping the RGB in lines to the jungle chip. when i used .1uf caps and 75ohm resistors; like the basic mod, the screen hardly showed anything. but if i simply inject the RGB signal without anything added the picture looks better. while messing with it, i noticed, right next to the jungle chip, there are some open vias with an arrow pointing to them and they are labeled RGB and BLK in. i soldered some header pins into it and checked the signal, it was exactly the same as when i soldered directly to the jungle chip!

https://postimg.cc/q6hzwyqy

at this point, i am assuming that there are some resistors i probably need to remove or swap out to get the screen brighter, but i don't quite have the schematic reading abilities to know how to look for this. any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! i have had this TV for a while in this current state and i am anxious to hopefully get this one done.

i included a schematic blow up of the route between the OSD chip and the Jungle chip in the next post.

I'm afraid this TV uses Digital TTL RGB for its OSD input going by the jungle chip datasheet and the schematic in your follow-up post. Attempting to inject Analog RGB into a jungle chip that only has a Digital input will usually result in an image with a very limited number of colors (usually 8, but it looks like it's 16 in your case indicating that this chip has an Intensity channel). It's possible to S-Video mod it instead, but if you insist on an RGB mod I suggest looking for a different TV.

https://crtdatabase.com/crts/sony/sony-kv-13m20

[nes.og]

I imagine you can convert the TTL to RGB like you can with CGA?

SONY - KV-13M20 MOD
i looked through this thread and i only found a couple of people talking about it. the information i did find said that this TV doesn't accept MUX modding. i don't care too much about the MUX side of things; a simple mod will work for me. here is where i need some help.

Spoiler

i was able to mod my set to a point. i get a nice sharp screen synced and everything, but the screen is kind of dark, like the contrast is not adjusted correctly. i have included some photos of what i see after the mod. it kind of reminds me of what an RGB signal looked like coming from a PC Engine or Turbografx 16 without an RGB amp, but this is worse.

https://postimg.cc/QFkVfX84
https://postimg.cc/zy1VwLrH

the way i modded this was by tapping the RGB in lines to the jungle chip. when i used .1uf caps and 75ohm resistors; like the basic mod, the screen hardly showed anything. but if i simply inject the RGB signal without anything added the picture looks better. while messing with it, i noticed, right next to the jungle chip, there are some open vias with an arrow pointing to them and they are labeled RGB and BLK in. i soldered some header pins into it and checked the signal, it was exactly the same as when i soldered directly to the jungle chip!

https://postimg.cc/q6hzwyqy

at this point, i am assuming that there are some resistors i probably need to remove or swap out to get the screen brighter, but i don't quite have the schematic reading abilities to know how to look for this. any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! i have had this TV for a while in this current state and i am anxious to hopefully get this one done.

i included a schematic blow up of the route between the OSD chip and the Jungle chip in the next post.

I'm afraid this TV uses Digital TTL RGB for its OSD input going by the jungle chip datasheet and the schematic in your follow-up post. Attempting to inject Analog RGB into a jungle chip that only has a Digital input will usually result in an image with a very limited number of colors (usually 8, but it looks like it's 16 in your case indicating that this chip has an Intensity channel). It's possible to S-Video mod it instead, but if you insist on an RGB mod I suggest looking for a different TV.

https://crtdatabase.com/crts/sony/sony-kv-13m20

[Akina86]

i removed the 220 resistors from R432 R433 and R434 and it looks a little closer, but now i have this strange dark fade from the top and it looks washed out. i also had to use the .1uf caps and 75ohm resistors to get this far. it looks like im am really close to figuring this out, if its possible.

[matt]

Wow, that definitely looks a lot like analog RGB. I wonder if this chip is analog after all and just needs DC restoration of the signal?

The datasheet for the CXA1870 does specify digital RGB for those input pins, with two different intensities depending on voltage level. Either Bonk is falling conveniently into that range, or something else is going on.

[KPackratt2k]

Wow, that definitely looks a lot like analog RGB. I wonder if this chip is analog after all and just needs DC restoration of the signal?

The datasheet for the CXA1870 does specify digital RGB for those input pins, with two different intensities depending on voltage level. Either Bonk is falling conveniently into that range, or something else is going on.

Interesting. I remember finding an old post where someone else managed to inject Analog RGB into this jungle chip with good results, and another post (from a different user) stating that they had color issues (i.e. it had the blotchy Digital RGB effect) when using a Raspberry Pi as their RGB source, but normal game consoles looked fine. I have no idea how it could've been like that for him, but it was based on what he stated.

Perhaps there could be hope for these CXA1870 jungle chips after all and we were just dismissing it based on what the datasheet stated.

Akina86, what device are you using as your RGB source?

[Akina86]

I’m using a raspberry pi with a simple gert 666. Maybe I should try it with mike chi’s Retrotink ultimate or a mister might show things better? I’ll try them both when I get a chance and let you know if there is any difference. Thanks for checking

[krimstah]

Hi All,

I have recently acquired a Mitsubishi CT29AX1, As Typical with Mitsubishi sets it is impossible to find any service manuals for sets but I do know it is possible to RGB mod these.

Luckily with this set I managed to discover a Teletext Card in which the Teletext Decoder has a datasheet: (Link below)

https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet ... 246AP.html

After pulling out the teletext card and viewing over the traces I can see the RGB lines clear to identify. (As detailed in my mapping picture above)

Is anyone able to help me figure out how to rgb mod this tv with what I have to show here, It looks like there is a PIP header on the board aswell but can not find the chassis anywhere online to identify rgb.

Is it as simple as feeding rgb signals into the ports with 75ohm termination?


Pictures of everything in the below link:

https://imgur.com/a/VlPRvIE

[PacManPlus]

Curiosity question here:
I have a Samsung TXD-1372 (the same one 8-Bit guy converted to RGB), and it was a successful conversion. I'm actually using it in a Pac-Man cabaret cabinet, which brings me to my question:

Is there a way to shrink the horizontal size of the screen? There supposedly is a way to do it through the service mode adjustment settings, but none of the settings actually affect the horizontal size.
Here's the service manual link from the 8-bit guy thread: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GoGtO ... oVan52Kual
I've been looking through it, but can't find anything.

Thank you in advance,
Bob

[Akina86]

SONY KV-13M20 UPDATE:
i got a chance to mess around with the tv again today. i still haven't tried it with a Mister or a Retrotink, but i was able to clean up my install a bit and when i did, i got, what looks like to me, full color range! the image is still kind of washed out and there is still the dark fade at the top, but i'm hoping to figure that out. i included some images of the progress.

one thing to note. in the first Bonk photo, you will notice the palm tree leaves are black and the purple flowers were white. for whatever reason, i wasn't getting the full color range at this point. but in the second photo, it looks like its all dialed in except for the wash out and dark fade at the top.




i included some other photos one more of Bonk and a couple Samurai Shodown II. as you can see, it looks pretty promising at this point. if i can figure out how to get rid of the "wash out" and "dark fade" i will post some photos of the board and what i did to overcome it, if i can. wish me luck!

[matt]

SONY KV-13M20 UPDATE:
i got a chance to mess around with the tv again today. i still haven't tried it with a Mister or a Retrotink, but i was able to clean up my install a bit and when i did, i got, what looks like to me, full color range! the image is still kind of washed out and there is still the dark fade at the top, but i'm hoping to figure that out. i included some images of the progress.

one thing to note. in the first Bonk photo, you will notice the palm tree leaves are black and the purple flowers were white. for whatever reason, i wasn't getting the full color range at this point. but in the second photo, it looks like its all dialed in except for the wash out and dark fade at the top.

That's awesome, apparently we've been tricked by Sony's documentation this whole time! If you could share what you did, that would be very helpful.

It's likely that this TV requires a DC coupled signal, which would explain the faded part at the top. Someone would have to engineer an amplifier circuit.

[Gugus]

Hello, I'm wondering if anyone can help me out here. I'm struggling through my first RGB mod on the RCA E13701 (Chassis TX808H, Toshiba TA1268N Jungle Chip). I have the RGB lines being injected between 680 and terminating 75 resistors. My blanking switch appears to only disconnect the OSD and nothing more despite 5V coming from from Pin 7 on the tuner.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yb9UBG ... p=drivesdk


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1--Nzqy ... p=drivesdk

When I'm on the Composite input with the SCART port connected, attempting to blank nets me only the above. It happens even without the 5V being used.

Is it just not blanking properly or is this also a sync problem? I've tested the colors depending on what is put on the screen and it matches, so I know the RGB is being injected properly.

I apologize for my formatting and if any of this doesn't make sense. First time attempting this mod and first time posting. I appreciate any help. Thank you

[KPackratt2k]

Sorry, your images aren't working for me, giving me "Access Denied", it always seems that Google Drive images are a PITA to share.

Try copying the blanking diagram from this:


Basically you lift RR41, run its lifted via through the left leg of the switch, run the resistor leg through the center leg of the switch, and run 5V (Pin 7 of the Tuner) through the right leg of the switch. If you did this and it's not working properly, I would check your connections and reflow your solder if necessary.

With your current resistor setup for RGB (680 + 75 ohm), you'll probably encounter a dark image because this jungle expects a 1.0vp-p signal. If this happens, try replacing the 75 ohm resistors with 180 ohm resistors.

[Zronium]

I'm getting weird interference when blanking, and I would love suggestions on ways to troubleshoot.

It's present pretty much any time the tv is blanked, while stuff is plugged in, or not at all. If I switch off blanking, it cleans up, so its 100% from blanking.

KV-20fs12 BA-5. YPbPr modded. Blanking directly on jungle pin 36 YUVSW with 5v and two parallel 1k resistors through a spdt switch.

It's happening whether or not my component cables are plugged in, during game, or just a blanked screen.

Spoiler

Spoiler

At this point I've rewired it completely. checked all my connections, all grounds are good, terminations are good. Tried with and without switch, isolated the SW pin, changed 5v location. Still the same.

Everything else is wired up like so:
Y, Pb, Pr 75ohm termination > 0.1uf > Jungle. Y split for Sync after termination to the 10uF cap before COMB Y on the jungle (no other sync worked on this crt. The blanking issue was present before this sync method.)

Any suggestion is appreciated.

[Gugus]

Sorry, your images aren't working for me, giving me "Access Denied", it always seems that Google Drive images are a PITA to share.

Try copying the blanking diagram from this:


Basically you lift RR41, run its lifted via through the left leg of the switch, run the resistor leg through the center leg of the switch, and run 5V (Pin 7 of the Tuner) through the right leg of the switch. If you did this and it's not working properly, I would check your connections and reflow your solder if necessary.

With your current resistor setup for RGB (680 + 75 ohm), you'll probably encounter a dark image because this jungle expects a 1.0vp-p signal. If this happens, try replacing the 75 ohm resistors with 180 ohm resistors.

I've seen the video that this diagram comes from. I don't understand what the "470R MUX" is supposed to represent. I assumed it's the point where the RGB is injected. Also my solder joints could very easily just be garbage as it's been years since I've soldered anything. Also, I've changed the sharing security on the drive photos so take a look if you get the chance

[KPackratt2k]

I've seen the video that this diagram comes from. I don't understand what the "470R MUX" is supposed to represent. I assumed it's the point where the RGB is injected. Also my solder joints could very easily just be garbage as it's been years since I've soldered anything. Also, I've changed the sharing security on the drive photos so take a look if you get the chance

Those 470 ohm resistors are an additional set of resistors based on the OSD muxing resistor diagram to compensate for the jungle's expected RGB signal levels. Normally you would only have one set of resistors before the 75 ohm terminating resistors, but due to the jungle chip's design, I ended up combining the suggested muxing resistor values with the original OSD grounding resistor values to get a decent picture and avoid having the tube overdriven by the microcontroller. Since then I have discovered a better resistor setup for this chassis. My new design is to use 680 ohm resistors as the OSD muxing resistors and 180 ohm resistors for RGB termination, in this case you wouldn't need the 470 ohm resistors.

The issue you're experiencing looks like a sync issue, by any chance is your input device outputting TTL level CSYNC?

Also, looking at your diagram, you should ground every ground pin (including the 21st pin for shield ground) on your RGB connector, some SCART cables only have one pin grounded which can cause problems if the ground it's using isn't connected to the TV. I would also add 1K ohm resistors on both audio channels before combining them to mono for proper stereo to mono mixdown.

[Gugus]

I've seen the video that this diagram comes from. I don't understand what the "470R MUX" is supposed to represent. I assumed it's the point where the RGB is injected. Also my solder joints could very easily just be garbage as it's been years since I've soldered anything. Also, I've changed the sharing security on the drive photos so take a look if you get the chance

Those 470 ohm resistors are an additional set of resistors based on the OSD muxing resistor diagram to compensate for the jungle's expected RGB signal levels. Normally you would only have one set of resistors before the 75 ohm terminating resistors, but due to the jungle chip's design, I ended up combining the suggested muxing resistor values with the original OSD grounding resistor values to get a decent picture and avoid having the tube overdriven by the microcontroller. Since then I have discovered a better resistor setup for this chassis. My new design is to use 680 ohm resistors as the OSD muxing resistors and 180 ohm resistors for RGB termination, in this case you wouldn't need the 470 ohm resistors.

The issue you're experiencing looks like a sync issue, by any chance is your input device outputting TTL level CSYNC?

Also, looking at your diagram, you should ground every ground pin (including the 21st pin for shield ground) on your RGB connector, some SCART cables only have one pin grounded which can cause problems if the ground it's using isn't connected to the TV. I would also add 1K ohm resistors on both audio channels before combining them to mono for proper stereo to mono mixdown.

I'm not sure what my device is outputting to be quite honest. I'm using an HDMI to SCART adapter from a laptop. I wanted to do this mod to have better text clarity for use as a computer monitor on an emulator machine.

Can I ground the RGB and 21st pin to the same place or do they have to be different?

Also, I should add that I removed the surface mount 680 resistors from the RGB lines and replaced them with larger 680's

[KPackratt2k]

Can I ground the RGB and 21st pin to the same place or do they have to be different?

You can ground all of the ground pins to the same place.

Does your HDMI to SCART converter have a resolution switching button? It's possible that it's outputting at a resolution other than 240p/480i, causing the distorted image.

[Akina86]

SONY KV-13M20 UPDATE: giving up for now...

i think i am done tinkering with this TV. i didn't NEED to get this one done, it was more of a "puzzle" i was trying to solve. i have a nice KV-27FV310 that has a picture so good, it made me cash in on my PVM. i did the Spongebob tv mod and even a cheap APEX TV.

anyway, this will be my final post unless i figure it out. the last round of tinkering; i was messing with some pots and a bread board and came up with some interesting results. i was able to get rid of the "dark fade" at the top of the screen simply by connecting directly to the jungle chip. so don't waste your time with the board vias. when i used a 200k potentiometer i would be able to go from full color range with a signal full of noise all the way to a crystal clear image, but with limited colors.

this image is with the basic 0.1uf and 75ohm method with really good color range:


this image is feeding the RGB direct with nothing in line very limited colors:


this is with the 200k pot turned almost all the way down; just barely on:




this is about a quarter turn on:




this is full on:




at this point i have messed around all i care to, since i don't really know what i'm doing in the first place. if someone has any tips or words of advice or anything, i would appreciate it, even if it is telling me that you tried this before too and wasted a bunch of time, like me, and gave up. thanks for everyone's time on this and happy modding!

[matt]

anyway, this will be my final post unless i figure it out. the last round of tinkering; i was messing with some pots and a bread board and came up with some interesting results. i was able to get rid of the "dark fade" at the top of the screen simply by connecting directly to the jungle chip. so don't waste your time with the board vias. when i used a 200k potentiometer i would be able to go from full color range with a signal full of noise all the way to a crystal clear image, but with limited colors.

Where did you put the 200k pot?

Apparently your TV is switching from analog to digital at some point, and it would be good to know what's triggering that.

[jath00]

Hey just wondering if anyone could confirm or give me some input on rgb modding my Sony KV-13M10. I've been doing a bunch of research and also with a failed attempt at another CRT. But after giving it a while, I'd like to attempt on this one. I've seen the Reddit thread with the Imgur pictures and also the CRT database sites. They seem to have similar mods, but I am following more closely the Reddit one.

I have attached a poorly drawn picture to see if I understand the setup. My drawing here: https://imgur.com/kFvdb4K

But essentially, the RGB analog is on 16-18 and I want to cut the tracing between 16,17, and 17,18. Since I am not planning on removing the 10k ohm resistor at R325, I should also make a horizontal cut to the tracing beneath 16-18 to remove the RGB ground to the 10k ohm resistor. I will use a multimeter to test if any of the pins (16,17, or 18) are connected to each other and that is how I will know if cutting the tracing was effective. I have 20 gauge silicone AWG wire I will attach to 16-18, with the other end being to the BNC female connectors. Before the BNC connection, I need to solder a 0.1 uF ceramic capacitor (I found it to be labeled 104 online) and a 75 ohm resistor from the connection to the ground on the side of the BNC. There will be an additional wire running from the ground on the side of the BNC to be soldered onto one of the grounding points on the main board. This will be completed for red, green, and blue for 3 BNC (R/G/B) connections total and 3 grounding wires coming from each BNC. Picture from another forum post for reference: https://imgur.com/a/yuqPlbs

For the blanking, I will attach pink, purple, and orange from their respective locations to an SPDT switch to switch from RGB and composite. https://i.imgur.com/lwON0LJ.png

And for the sync, I will get an RCA yellow to BNC adapter to plug into the existing composite input.

Additional references used:
https://crtdatabase.com/crts/sony/sony- ... -injection

Sorry if it's a lot I am asking! I think I had messed up a prior one (won't power on after RGB mod) that I just wanted to ask for clarification. Thanks in advance for any feedback!

[Greenman]

Hi all.

I have just acquired a Sharp CX51N3 CRT TV and I am at a bit of a loss as to how this could be RGB modded to take an original NBA JAM PCB.

Disclosure: I am fine with a soldering iron, I understand the voltage risk inside this TV and I know how to discharge it.

What I am struggling with is I cannot seem to find a jungle chip and therefore am at a bit of a loss as to how or even if this can be modded to connect to my NBA JAM board directly via SRGB.

Schematic for this model TV can be found here: https://data2.manualslib.com/pdf6/129/1 ... 5e3fcc16e7

Any help will be very much appreciated.

GM.

[Osirus]

Picked up a Sharp 19L-M100BS I'm going to mod. It's been almost 2 years since I've done one, and have gotten rusty. Looks like a textbook case though.

(My simplification of RGB circuit)

[KPackratt2k]

Is anyone else having issues getting Sega Saturn CSYNC cables to work on RGB modded consumer TVs? I bought a Sega Saturn RGB SCART CSYNC cable from Retro Access and I'm getting a rolling picture. I've tried replacing the single resistor on the connector board with a 470R just in case that was it and I'm still not getting sync. I don't understand why CSYNC from the Saturn doesn't work because CSYNC from any other console works fine on every TV I've modded.

EDIT: Well shoot, I was doing some testing with a multimeter and discovered that the CSYNC pin on my Saturn is fried. I get nothing when I measure it in AC or DC volts, whereas when I measured the Composite video pin I get 1.2V DC and 2V AC. I was also able to measure the 5V pin and got the expected voltage there. I'm willing to bet the original owner of my Saturn used a cheap SCART cable and somehow fried the CSYNC pin. I'm ordering a Sync-on-Luma cable to replace it and have started a return request for my CSYNC cable.

The resistor I replaced turned out to be for the 5V rail, so I put the old resistor back on there to avoid any suspicions when they receive it back.

[tongshadow]

I would only use CSYNC on either Professional PVMs that require it or the digital realm. Sync on Composite/Luma work much better on analog devices.

[flyingflygon]

Why? I use Csync on all my modded TVs because I use an Extron Crosspoint, and csync works perfectly fine.

[maxtherabbit]

Same I use csync on everything

[tongshadow]

Why? I use Csync on all my modded TVs because I use an Extron Crosspoint, and csync works perfectly fine.

I like Sync on Composite because I can show the immediate difference between it and RGB at the flick of a switch.