TV RGB mod thread

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Diopter Doctor
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:16 am

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Diopter Doctor »

kynrek wrote:
Thanks for the tips!. I put the composite video pin from the SCART connector to the rear composite in jack on the TV. The composite signal shows when I select the AV Input if the blanking pin does not have any voltage so I know it is hooked up to the correct scart pin although the color does seem a bit off.

Thanks,
Can you take a picture of the screen with the N64 and OSD on. Maybe that'll put us in the right direction.

Hmm, have you tested your RGB modded N64 on another monitor with success? If yes, your pin may require a higher/lower voltage for proper blanking. My CRT mod needed as little as 0.7V to blank.
If you have a potentiometer, lookup how to use them as voltage dividers and just sweep the amount of voltage going into your blanking pin. Assuming you've hooked everything up correctly, that's all I can figure.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

SirDiabeetus wrote:Hello there! Long time lurker, but I'm finally planning to RGB mod my Apex AT2704s TV! I couldn't find the service manual for this TV, so I had to get my information based on a similar set with the same jungle IC.

TV Service Manual: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DWSit ... oRVKVmF2d-
Jungle IC: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OMgnA ... nu-nOYR_ko

I do have I few questions before I get started on this mod. My OSD RGB resistors are 1.8k ohm, so the EXT RGB resistors needed to replaced with 220 ohm and solder the 75 ohm resistors to ground, right? I'm debating if I should either use Luma (thanks to S-video) or Composite as my sync for the mod. I wanted to go with the former, but I see many people going with the latter instead, so I'm conflicted on which to choose. After that, I plan to getting 5V from the console, thus wiring it to the blanking pin of the Scart cable.
Spoiler
Image
You look like you are on the right track. Remove the 330 Ohm OSD grounding resistors and use that as your entry point. The table says to use 220 Ohm as you say, if they are through-hole resistors can use the 220R/75R twist method as I got the 8 Bit Guy to do.

You'll probably find the composite port is fine for the sync.

Also a good idea to inspect your TV's chassis to make sure it is the same.

Another thing of note for the TDA884x jungles is that you will want to keep blanking voltage between 1.0 and 3.0V. They will turn the RGB outputs off completely if the voltage exceeds 4.0V.
___________________________________________________
MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
kynrek
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Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by kynrek »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
SirDiabeetus wrote:Hello there! Long time lurker, but I'm finally planning to RGB mod my Apex AT2704s TV! I couldn't find the service manual for this TV, so I had to get my information based on a similar set with the same jungle IC.

TV Service Manual: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DWSit ... oRVKVmF2d-
Jungle IC: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OMgnA ... nu-nOYR_ko

I do have I few questions before I get started on this mod. My OSD RGB resistors are 1.8k ohm, so the EXT RGB resistors needed to replaced with 220 ohm and solder the 75 ohm resistors to ground, right? I'm debating if I should either use Luma (thanks to S-video) or Composite as my sync for the mod. I wanted to go with the former, but I see many people going with the latter instead, so I'm conflicted on which to choose. After that, I plan to getting 5V from the console, thus wiring it to the blanking pin of the Scart cable.
Spoiler
Image
You look like you are on the right track. Remove the 330 Ohm OSD grounding resistors and use that as your entry point. The table says to use 220 Ohm as you say, if they are through-hole resistors can use the 220R/75R twist method as I got the 8 Bit Guy to do.

You'll probably find the composite port is fine for the sync.

Also a good idea to inspect your TV's chassis to make sure it is the same.

Another thing of note for the TDA884x jungles is that you will want to keep blanking voltage between 1.0 and 3.0V. They will turn the RGB outputs off completely if the voltage exceeds 4.0V.
Edit: sorry I misread and thought this was for me.
Last edited by kynrek on Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
HellRazor
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:50 am

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by HellRazor »

Cant understand whats going on here, theres any thread about proper sega saturn rgb mod wiring? what i get so far is this
when i put only the red component cable:
Image
just the green:
Image
when i put just the blue i get a blue blink on screen and then all get black:
Image
however if i put that same blue component cable on either the red or green out jack i got the blue i was expecting:
Image

check everything with multimeter and i can confirm the wiring is working, something is simply preventing the blue to come
The saturn mini din have a 470ohm resistor on sync line and thats it

EDIT: i not stop to think that could be something wrong on my saturn blue output, going try to check in another console, i think the tv rgb mod is fine so, thank you all guys! and thank you so much for all Mark!
Last edited by HellRazor on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.
kynrek
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Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by kynrek »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
SirDiabeetus wrote:Hello there! Long time lurker, but I'm finally planning to RGB mod my Apex AT2704s TV! I couldn't find the service manual for this TV, so I had to get my information based on a similar set with the same jungle IC.

TV Service Manual: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DWSit ... oRVKVmF2d-
Jungle IC: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OMgnA ... nu-nOYR_ko

I do have I few questions before I get started on this mod. My OSD RGB resistors are 1.8k ohm, so the EXT RGB resistors needed to replaced with 220 ohm and solder the 75 ohm resistors to ground, right? I'm debating if I should either use Luma (thanks to S-video) or Composite as my sync for the mod. I wanted to go with the former, but I see many people going with the latter instead, so I'm conflicted on which to choose. After that, I plan to getting 5V from the console, thus wiring it to the blanking pin of the Scart cable.
Spoiler
Image
You look like you are on the right track. Remove the 330 Ohm OSD grounding resistors and use that as your entry point. The table says to use 220 Ohm as you say, if they are through-hole resistors can use the 220R/75R twist method as I got the 8 Bit Guy to do.

You'll probably find the composite port is fine for the sync.

Also a good idea to inspect your TV's chassis to make sure it is the same.

Another thing of note for the TDA884x jungles is that you will want to keep blanking voltage between 1.0 and 3.0V. They will turn the RGB outputs off completely if the voltage exceeds 4.0V.
Edit: sorry for the confusion I thought MarkOZLAD was responding to me. (I still am stuck, can you help?)
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Well you’re not having much luck dude. Just keep going. My early attempts took me ages to get working but taught me heaps.

Seems like the RGB mod is right but you need a solid test console to be sure.
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
HellRazor
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by HellRazor »

yup.. its not the console problem, will try to check the signals /TV board but at this point maybe i will do a little pause on this TV and go to next
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

Your RGB mod TV is working correctly as Mark states.

If your plugging the red or green channel into blue on the TV and getting blue then all is good.

Your Saturn may need the 220uf cap on the blue channel replaced or it may need the AV port cleaned.
Saturns are getting to the age of cap replacement it seems, many reports of this late this year..

I've seen one recently that went yellow until the AV port was cleaned with iso.
obitus1990
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by obitus1990 »

Has anyone tried to mod an Orion model TV1319B for RGB? I haven't been able to find any schematics for this particular model. Any input would be appreciated. This TV only has input for a coax cable (no separate component, composite, etc).

Thanks!
HellRazor
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by HellRazor »

oh ok I'll try that now thanks Syntax for the reply!
SirDiabeetus
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Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:35 am

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by SirDiabeetus »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
SirDiabeetus wrote:Hello there! Long time lurker, but I'm finally planning to RGB mod my Apex AT2704s TV! I couldn't find the service manual for this TV, so I had to get my information based on a similar set with the same jungle IC.

TV Service Manual: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DWSit ... oRVKVmF2d-
Jungle IC: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OMgnA ... nu-nOYR_ko

I do have I few questions before I get started on this mod. My OSD RGB resistors are 1.8k ohm, so the EXT RGB resistors needed to replaced with 220 ohm and solder the 75 ohm resistors to ground, right? I'm debating if I should either use Luma (thanks to S-video) or Composite as my sync for the mod. I wanted to go with the former, but I see many people going with the latter instead, so I'm conflicted on which to choose. After that, I plan to getting 5V from the console, thus wiring it to the blanking pin of the Scart cable.
Spoiler
Image
You look like you are on the right track. Remove the 330 Ohm OSD grounding resistors and use that as your entry point. The table says to use 220 Ohm as you say, if they are through-hole resistors can use the 220R/75R twist method as I got the 8 Bit Guy to do.

You'll probably find the composite port is fine for the sync.

Also a good idea to inspect your TV's chassis to make sure it is the same.

Another thing of note for the TDA884x jungles is that you will want to keep blanking voltage between 1.0 and 3.0V. They will turn the RGB outputs off completely if the voltage exceeds 4.0V.
Thanks, Mark! I'll definitely make sure to see the Chassis is the same. As for the blanking voltage, I'll take djcalle's suggestion on adding a 1k pot resistor between 5V from console and blanking. I finally decided to use the composite port as my sync.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

SirDiabeetus wrote:I'll take djcalle's suggestion on adding a 1k pot resistor between 5V from console and blanking. I finally decided to use the composite port as my sync.
For a test setup, I would take a 5V line, add a 1K resistor and then connect it to the blanking line somewhere on the jungle side of the existing R038 resistor. This will interact with the 1,000 ohm resistor R074 creating a 1:1 voltage divider and delivering 2.5V to the jungle.
___________________________________________________
MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
kynrek
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Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by kynrek »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
kynrek wrote:I am going to summarize to make sure I am understanding what you are recommending:
MarkOZLAD wrote: R2024,R2025 and R2026 are your OSD RGB inline resistors, 6800 Ohm

R803, R804 and R805 are the OSD RGB ground resistors. These will need to be removed. Your new inline resistors will be 1100 Ohm (see table above).
Change R2024,R2025 and R2026 from 68k to 1.1k
Remove R803, R804 and R805 and replace with a jumper wire
MarkOZLAD wrote:75 Ohm terminations of course.
I don’t know what this 75 ohm termation means. Where do I put the 75ohm resistors? Between the RGB Singnal connected to the legs of R2024 ,R2025 and R2026 closest to the jungle chip and the jungle chip pins themselves and put one end to ground?



The 1.1K will be the inline resistors on your external RGB lines, they will not replace the existng 6.8K. The 6.8K will remain in place. Remove R803, R804 and R805 but do not jumper them.

Please review the OSD External RGB Mux method.

Image

On the OSD Mux diagram, this is how the 75 Ohm termination is shown

Image

Learn the OSD RGB circuit on your schematic. Good idea to draw up a diagram of the RGB and Blanking (Fast Blanking/YS) circuits including the microcontroller, jungle and all the parts in between. The resistor numbers I've given should help you find it on the schematic. Then look at my instructions and the OSD External RGB Mux diagram.
I ended up giving up on the Turtles TV and following these instructions for the Sharp TV and it worked! (I'll post pictures later)

At first I wasn't sure if I was seeing component or RGB because I am still seeing dot crawl on my everdrive's menu screen for the N64 but I did notice that the colors in the OSD are different in some places where they intersect with the game image when only when using my SCART connection (RGB).

I think the everdrive menu uses one of the N64's high resolution modes so I'm not sure if dot crawl on text is normal or not with RGB. I am using the Composite video for sync. Would using a sync stripper help with dot crawl?
HellRazor
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:50 am

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by HellRazor »

i ended up giving up (too) on the KV-21, its the third sega saturn board i try and all are missing blue:
Image

however i got a new victim (sorry crap pic again):
Image

that one is a Sony KV29T76 Chassis BA-4B, looks pretty much like Marks one
The manual: https://www.electronica-pt.com/esquema/ ... no_html,1/

I Edit a PNG with the A board Diagram here: https://ibb.co/vQn9f2D

Going open it right now, can you guys confirm which resistors i should remove? and can i use the BA-5D method? thanks!
Last edited by HellRazor on Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:32 pm, edited 8 times in total.
obitus1990
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by obitus1990 »

Hi,

I have disassembled an Orion TV1319B to seek help in doing the RGB mod to it, if possible. I am attaching pics. Can it be done, and, if so, where to start, as I can’t find schematics for this TV.

Thanks in advance!

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
mgerety
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:24 pm

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by mgerety »

Based on the data sheet for your Jungle IC, the highlighted pins look like a good place to start:

Image

Datasheet: https://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet- ... 76070.html
obitus1990
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by obitus1990 »

Woud the pin designated FAST SWITCH IN be the "OSD BLANKING PIN"?
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

kynrek wrote:I ended up giving up on the Turtles TV and following these instructions for the Sharp TV and it worked! (I'll post pictures later)

At first I wasn't sure if I was seeing component or RGB because I am still seeing dot crawl on my everdrive's menu screen for the N64 but I did notice that the colors in the OSD are different in some places where they intersect with the game image when only when using my SCART connection (RGB).

I think the everdrive menu uses one of the N64's high resolution modes so I'm not sure if dot crawl on text is normal or not with RGB. I am using the Composite video for sync. Would using a sync stripper help with dot crawl?
That sounds like you are only seeing composite video. What blanking circuit did you use?
___________________________________________________
MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

obitus1990 wrote:Woud the pin designated FAST SWITCH IN be the "OSD BLANKING PIN"?
Yes.

I have had trouble with this series of jungle chips. The OSD input has two modes of operation. You have to get lucky and get one that is in analog OSD mode.
___________________________________________________
MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

HellRazor wrote:can i use the BA-5D method? thanks!
I posted about the BA-4 method here a couple of weeks ago. Long post with lots of pictures.
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
HellRazor
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by HellRazor »

MarkOZLAD wrote:Whilst I'm documenting Sony mods, here are the design diagrams I made for John M on the CRT Collective to mod his Sony KV-27S42 TV with BA-4D chassis using the OSD Mux method. He implemented it with great success.

This was done when I was still using diodes.

The basic process is:
- remove the existing inline throughole resistors R025, R026 and R027
- replace each of them with a 2K4R and a 1n4148 diode
- remove surface mount resistors R086, R087 and R088
- On the external RGB lines use 75R terminations to ground and then 430R inline
- Connect the external RGB lines to the leg of the diodes closest to the jungle
- Connect 5V to switch the switch to 1KR and solder after the existing R028 inline resistor on the blanking circuit

The theory behind the mod exactly the same as for the BA-5D, just a bit easier to implement because of the throughole resistors R025, R026 and R027.


Image
Some other things of note from this mod:

- John was originally using a purchased sync cleaner and couldn't get the TV to sync, he removed this from the setup and it worked
- John purchased an RCA to S-Video adapter and fed sync into S-Video. He said this fixed the image shifting you normally see.
you talking about that one or there one about BA-4 too? do i need to use diodes or its a old method? thanks
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Don’t need diodes. When not using diodes the method is the same just use 330R instead of 430R for inline.
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
obitus1990
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by obitus1990 »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
obitus1990 wrote:Woud the pin designated FAST SWITCH IN be the "OSD BLANKING PIN"?
Yes.

I have had trouble with this series of jungle chips. The OSD input has two modes of operation. You have to get lucky and get one that is in analog OSD mode.
Do you happen to have a link to the data sheet for the OSD chip used in this TV? It's an ORION OEC3027C-5F14. I've had no luck finding one.
HellRazor
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by HellRazor »

Let me see if i get it, we use the same method for each chassis but i just need to find the right spots on the specific diagram for my tv? so the resistors i gonna need to remove can vary right? they can not be R025, R026, R027, 86, 87 etc as i need to check on the specific jungle chip? also need to go to the calculator to see best inline resistor option? thank you again! im checking the o-osdblk and r-o/g-o/b-o pins to work on it
EDIT: nevermind i think i just figure out all the thing, will try soon and see whats happens
Last edited by HellRazor on Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
kynrek
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by kynrek »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
kynrek wrote:I ended up giving up on the Turtles TV and following these instructions for the Sharp TV and it worked! (I'll post pictures later)

At first I wasn't sure if I was seeing component or RGB because I am still seeing dot crawl on my everdrive's menu screen for the N64 but I did notice that the colors in the OSD are different in some places where they intersect with the game image when only when using my SCART connection (RGB).

I think the everdrive menu uses one of the N64's high resolution modes so I'm not sure if dot crawl on text is normal or not with RGB. I am using the Composite video for sync. Would using a sync stripper help with dot crawl?
That sounds like you are only seeing composite video. What blanking circuit did you use?
Pin 16 with 75 ohms to ground and a 3.3K inline. When the N64 is turned on I get 1.09 volts on the wire that should be going to the blanking line on the tv PCB. I suspect that I have it soldered to the incorrect pin because when I disconnect it completely I see no difference in picture and I am still seeing the dot crawl. It seems that this is not getting sent to the blanking pin to on the jungle chip. I also tried applying 3.3 and 5V to the line and didn't see any difference other than some faint rolling lines going up the screen so I disconnected it immediately.
obitus1990
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by obitus1990 »

I think I have mine mostly figured out now for the Orion TV1319B. The only thing I am still unsure of is where to grab the sync signal for it. This TV has RF ONLY input. No SVideo, no composite, no component plugs.

Image

Image
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

obitus1990 wrote:I think I have mine mostly figured out now for the Orion TV1319B. The only thing I am still unsure of is where to grab the sync signal for it. This TV has RF ONLY input. No SVideo, no composite, no component plugs.
I think you will want to insert 75 Ohm terminated sync (cync/luma or composite video) into the internal video pin. Pin 47. Probably want to isolate it from the TV's existing circuitry.

Interesting there is no cap shown for pin 47 on your screenshot. I expect there will be on on the board. The sync will need to go through it and then into pin 47.
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
obitus1990
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by obitus1990 »

Mark,

Does this help?

https://imgur.com/a/rDRiWCY

If not, I can provide you the complete schematics for the TV (via email), which I have now obtained.

When you say to isolate it from the board, do you mean the pin 47 needs to be desoldered and lifted, then soldered to a wire which will receive CYSNC signal provided by the console's composite out port?
NEO-GEO Man
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Location: QLD Australia

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by NEO-GEO Man »

Can add the Sony KVXJ29M31 to the list if it isnt already there, I added RGB into the TELETEXT card and cut the RGB lines for TELETEXT hoping the button on the remote would activate the blank, but it doesnt so i just added a switch and took 5v from the 7805 regulator.

This set has the BG-3R chassis.

I feed the sync and audio from my SCART socket into the component Luma and audio sockets from the rear, i have soldered the wires on there. There is no noticeable change between using the component input or the composite inputs on this set, it doesnt seem to matter. There is no S-Video input on mine.

I added 100ohm resistors to the RGB lines at the SCART socket and put a switch on them. I might need to go to a little more, say 85-90ohm would be about right.

So far i have tested the following:

* Lethal Enforcers arcade PCB with guns, worked without a hitch.
* NEO-GEO AES console, works well, however the image is a little off the right.
* Sega Master System, works perfect, Light Phaser works very well.
* Euro NES front loader: Image off to left a fair bit ( Have not adjusted service menu for 50Hz yet )
* USA NES top loader: Works well, Image off to left
* Panasonic FZ10 3DO: RGB modded, image a fair way left which causes minor issues on very bright scenes.

Has anyone tried anything to stop the image being shifted left so far on some machines? A pot would be great, but i did this whole job without even taking the chassis out of the set, it was so easy.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

obitus1990 wrote:Mark,

Does this help?

https://imgur.com/a/rDRiWCY

If not, I can provide you the complete schematics for the TV (via email), which I have now obtained.

When you say to isolate it from the board, do you mean the pin 47 needs to be desoldered and lifted, then soldered to a wire which will receive CYSNC signal provided by the console's composite out port?
What I am saying is that your TV is RF only. Therefore there is likely no way to get it to switch to the external AV input so you will have to hijack the input that the Tuner goes through. You have to find a place to disconnect the Tuner's circuit to pin 47 and input your sync instead. If there is a cap leading into pin 47 hopefully you can lift its leg that is farthest from the jungle, which will isolate the pin from the tuner and input your 75 ohm terminated sync into there, into the lifted leg. Otherwise it will have to be somewhere else. If possible always try to avoid lifting chip legs, they can be fragile.

I am interested in the schematic. Can you share it on Google Drive? Comes free with any Google account.
___________________________________________________
MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
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