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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:36 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1043
Location: Toronto, Canada
When I was playing with the AV driver, I had 2 other TG16 systems here. One was stock going into a TV via composite video, one running an amp I purchased from Broken. I followed Tim's installation instructions and recommended gain settings for the NEC. The SCART cable I used was straight through with no extra components.

Based on my personal observations, the THS amp with 100 ohm resistors was about the same brightness and color saturation as the stock composite system. The AV driver was too dark. I had to bump the brightness on my Sony PVM almost all the way up to match. I told Tim about it; not sure if it's because Tim has a PCE and I was installing into TG16 via EXP port.

That being said, my own personal TG16 now has Tim's AV driver with higher gain settings to match stock levels (when I switch between consoles, I don't have to play with brightness settings) the main reason was the audio amp. The TG16 audio channels are not amplified. There is an IC on the TG16 that amplifies the audio, but the amplified output is a single channel (left/right mixed together) for the RF output.

I also once installed the Otakus store RGB amp into a USA turbo duo. It has the same brightness levels as the modified THS amp.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:41 am 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 153
I received my jailbar fixed CoreGrafx from mickcris today. He does very clean work if anyone is looking for help.

Hopefully I am not giving away secrets but he replaced C131 and C132 on the CoreGrafx. I opened my CGII and the board layout is identical in this area. The jailbars are very nearly eliminated. I can only very faintly see them on light blue backgrounds - Bonk/Dragon Spirit. It looks much better than before.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:43 pm 


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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 434
Location: Texas, USA
Should have taken a pic since no one posted that board yet. The CoreGrafx has the same part ids as the white pc engine.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:58 am 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
mickcris wrote:
This is the location on the Duo-R. They are on the underside of the board opposite of the HuC6260. They have the same number designations as the regular Duo

Image

hello i need help with the DUOR, after complete the etim PC Engine 'Jail Bar' Video Noise, using 2x 4,7 uf electrolitic cap nothing changed for me.

i not think that are the type of caps used the problem as i used the same on the white pce and jailbars disappeared.

this is duoR mobo http://i.imgur.com/GixxyuHl.jpg

i tried c903 908, 923 910. nothing.


Quote:
DUO-R with Vcc to ground and sync to ground caps on the 6260.


but wich caps? wich pins? he refer to this old mod? http://pcengine.freeforums.org/jailbar-fix-t233.html
i remember that i tried that and jailbars are always there too.

also i readed about pce DUO:
C961 Capacitor
The original capacitor at this location is rated 10uF 16V. Replace it with a 220uF 16V capacitor
is only for the duo? or duoR too?


Last edited by Arnold101 on Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:58 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1043
Location: Toronto, Canada
you are using the wrong caps. Electrolytic capacitors can't be used in place of ceramics; they have different characteristics. Just because "it worked for you" in another console is pure coincidence / luck.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:30 pm 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
hi, but if they worked fine on the white pce why they can't work on duoR too?

also my rgb mod is made only by 3x C1815 transistors and no other components.

also change C961 with a larger cap (100uf+) is required for jailbars too?


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:53 pm 


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Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 884
Location: San Jose, CA
Arnold101 wrote:
hi, but if they worked fine on the white pce why they can't work on duoR too?

Because the Duo-R isn't the same console and has different circuitry.

Arnold101 wrote:
also my rgb mod is made only by 3x C1815 transistors and no other components.

That's an outdated mod that can actually cause potential damage to your monitor/TV, I highly recommend you replace it with the THS7314-based amp or the AV-DRIVER.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:19 pm 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
yes but the chip are the same...


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:30 pm 


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Joined: 28 Jan 2012
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Location: San Jose, CA
Arnold101 wrote:
yes but the chip are the same...

But they have different supporting circuitry, what works on one console may not work so well on another because of that.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:51 am 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
ok can i solder the ceramic cap on the top of the old one? without desolder it?


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:02 am 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
ok adios jailbars :mrgreen: i have used 5uf ceramic and another 10uf on c923 and c910, thanks
Spoiler: show
ImageImage
Image


i have a question: i have a white pce with rgb interface unit modded with 3x c1815 transistor and it use Csync, instead the same on pce duoR but with composite video as sync.

the image on the pce white is much more vivid and better contrast, why? i don't use any resistor on rgb lines on both consoles and cables. :?:
can be the white pce have better quality image?


Last edited by Arnold101 on Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:05 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1043
Location: Toronto, Canada
Arnold101 wrote:
ok can i solder the ceramic cap on the top of the old one? without desolder it?


Are you asking permission from strangers in a forum to do a half ass job on your console with the hope that it will work correctly?? ;)

If you want RGB for cheap, theres a guy in sale forum here that sells RGB AMP, 8 pin DIN and SCART cable. He will include the 2 ceramic caps in the price. Learn to work with SMD caps on garbage circuit boards. Its not that hard. Flux is your friend!!

This is what I've used on my Duo. I've done jail bar fixes on all these consoles, and the 2 ceramic caps work great.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:25 am 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
i asked to solder without desolder BECAUSE tim in the guide say Remove two caps from the motherboard (if necessary) and replace
also in the guide on one console the caps have been soldered without remove the old ones.
and as i said all works fine...
i have already rgb and cables made by miself i don't need to buy more thanks :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:45 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1043
Location: Toronto, Canada
Arnold101 wrote:
i asked to solder without desolder BECAUSE tim in the guide say Remove two caps from the motherboard (if necessary) and replace
also in the guide on one console the caps have been soldered without remove the old ones.
and as i said all works fine...
i have already rgb and cables made by miself i don't need to buy more thanks :roll:


read above. Your amp is old design. people learn from past mistakes and make better circuits over time. The new amp is based on measurements done on oscilloscope to match NEC consoles correcly. Issues with brightness and support with many different video devices are solved.

your $$, your console. Do what you want. Personally, I would want the most electronically correct amp. Given it cost me $350 to buy my duo, the $30 rgb amp is a small investment to make sure my duo doesnt fry!


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:57 am 


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Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 884
Location: San Jose, CA
Arnold101 wrote:
i have already rgb and cables made by miself i don't need to buy more thanks :roll:

Building the THS7314 amp is actually pretty cheap, the most expensive part is the THS7314 itself which is worth about a dollar or so. You wouldn't even need to buy a new cable, just modify the cable you already have so that there's no extra components inside the cable. If your cable doesn't have anything inside, then of course you have nothing to worry about.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:35 am 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
leonk wrote:
Arnold101 wrote:
i asked to solder without desolder BECAUSE tim in the guide say Remove two caps from the motherboard (if necessary) and replace
also in the guide on one console the caps have been soldered without remove the old ones.
and as i said all works fine...
i have already rgb and cables made by miself i don't need to buy more thanks :roll:


read above. Your amp is old design. people learn from past mistakes and make better circuits over time. The new amp is based on measurements done on oscilloscope to match NEC consoles correcly. Issues with brightness and support with many different video devices are solved.

your $$, your console. Do what you want. Personally, I would want the most electronically correct amp. Given it cost me $350 to buy my duo, the $30 rgb amp is a small investment to make sure my duo doesnt fry!

not fry anything dont worry about :roll: also if you don't know there's a fuse if something eventually goes wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:54 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1043
Location: Toronto, Canada
A fuse protects over voltage coming in from the AC adapter. It does 0 from protecting over voltage from entering your 6260 via the external connections you just added; totally different part of the circuit.

There's a good YouTube video GadgetUK164 posted of what it takes to replace a dead 6260 (and its cost)

Good luck with your rgb mod.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:16 pm 



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 322
Arnold101 wrote:
leonk wrote:
Arnold101 wrote:
i asked to solder without desolder BECAUSE tim in the guide say Remove two caps from the motherboard (if necessary) and replace
also in the guide on one console the caps have been soldered without remove the old ones.
and as i said all works fine...
i have already rgb and cables made by miself i don't need to buy more thanks :roll:


read above. Your amp is old design. people learn from past mistakes and make better circuits over time. The new amp is based on measurements done on oscilloscope to match NEC consoles correcly. Issues with brightness and support with many different video devices are solved.

your $$, your console. Do what you want. Personally, I would want the most electronically correct amp. Given it cost me $350 to buy my duo, the $30 rgb amp is a small investment to make sure my duo doesnt fry!

not fry anything dont worry about :roll: also if you don't know there's a fuse if something eventually goes wrong.

Why ask for advice when you obviously know all the answers? :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:54 pm 


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Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 539
Location: USA
cfx wrote:
Why ask for advice when you obviously know all the answers? :roll:


Because he isn't very smart.

Guys, ignore Arnold101. He was just banned from the ISOZone for calling me a "piece of shit lamer" for my mod-work prices, all while asking me for help with his DUO via PM. He's just a troublemaker.
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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:18 pm 



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 322
Thanks, Voultar, and I'm sorry for contributing to the noise as well.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:18 pm 


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Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 515
leonk wrote:
A fuse protects over voltage coming in from the AC adapter

Nope, fuses protect against an overcurrent condition. Their primary use is to stop a failed device from catching fire, although you can combine them with a device that short-circuits when the voltage rises above a predefined level (e.g. a TVS or varistor) to get a simple overvoltage protection.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:33 pm 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
Voultar wrote:
cfx wrote:
Why ask for advice when you obviously know all the answers? :roll:


Because he isn't very smart.

Guys, ignore Arnold101. He was just banned from the ISOZone for calling me a "piece of shit lamer" for my mod-work prices, all while asking me for help with his DUO via PM. He's just a troublemaker.

you like very much to do flames uh? i started a topic there, you posted, I got banned. if you have friends there is not my fault and reason to get banned.

also i called you piece of shit in the REP because YOU started to give me negatives reps without no real reason, ONLY because I said that your prices are very very high. well that is the truth "dear" voultar. recent example..tell me if is cheap 75$ for only install a pce rgb amp? i make that mod in 2 minutes. other guys here mod a ps3 and xbox360 for 30euro, that is a hard work not a rgb amp.. they are onest people not like you.

the troublemaker is you, in fact you are posting here too to says fake words about me when you started all because i said only my words about you and you have not liked it. And then tons and tons of negative reps like a children..no comment...


Last edited by Arnold101 on Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:34 pm 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
cfx wrote:
Thanks, Voultar, and I'm sorry for contributing to the noise as well.

Thanks what? You don't even know me and you believe his words without knowing the facts? :?

leonk wrote:
A fuse protects over voltage coming in from the AC adapter. It does 0 from protecting over voltage from entering your 6260 via the external connections you just added; totally different part of the circuit.

There's a good YouTube video GadgetUK164 posted of what it takes to replace a dead 6260 (and its cost)

Good luck with your rgb mod.

if 1 chip is dead does not mean that all the transitor rgb mod are shit. in fact they used this mod in japan too as you can find on the scanned magazine page

Quote:
Why ask for advice when you obviously know all the answers?

my question was about jailbar mod. what is the connection with this statement and my type of rgb mod? nothing :?


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:17 pm 


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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 434
Location: Texas, USA
$75 is a reasonable price. I charge $40 for the amp/cable/connector kit without install. So that would be about what I would charge.

No one uses the transistor amp anymore (or should). Its probsbly the reason you are having inconsistent results on different consoles. A 7314 amp is a bit more time consuming to build up.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:34 pm 


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Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 539
Location: USA
Arnold101 wrote:
tell me if is cheap 75$ for only install a pce rgb amp? i make that mod in 2 minutes. other guys here mod a ps3 and xbox360 for 30euro, that is a hard work not a rgb amp.. they are onest people not like you.


I have no problem in believing that you can build up an RGB amp on breadboard in 2 minutes. I can build that same 25 year old transistor amp-design, too. ;-)

Now you're accusing me of not being honest? In what respect? My prices are my prices. The price that I set for the RGB PCB that I designed with installation is my business. It hasn't anything to do with honesty. How are you one to even criticize when you can't even do something as rudimentary as putting decoupling caps on the 5V rail to mitigate jail-bars?? Seriously??

Have you ever seen my PS2 modwork? Those aren't hard work or require a certain level of skill to do with quality, do they? ;)


Again, I really want to apologize to everyone. I know this isn't the place for this. I just want to make this very clear.

Image

^ He didn't like the price of a Hi-Def NES system I was selling. He resorted into name-calling and other forms of douchebaggery.

Later, after his onslaught of name-calling and insults, he has the gall to PM me asking me to help him with THIS VERY same problem.

Image

I told him to piss off. You have to be pretty stupid to ask someone for their help after being such an asshole.

Yes, he was banned from that forum. And so he followed me to this forum to continue is harassment and to spread his poison.

Image



Again, I apologize for derailing this thread. I just wanted to resolve any confusion and make it abundantly clear that this guy's a trouble-making troll.

I just don't want to see honest people offering help to someone who's undeniably the greatest jerk-off of the 21st century. It's help undeserved and shouldn't be wasted on him.

Please, carry on :)
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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:38 pm 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
Quote:
trouble-making troll

that's you name.

As all wee can see, you are continuing the flame even here in another forum that does not matter anything here...who started the offtopic here? YOU...so continue if you like.


you like posting that screenshot BUT you forgot that was you the first to begin to send tons and tons of negative rep like a baby child after my post about your prices...and rgb amp was only an example, my post was on another console much, much higher price.

if you don't like receive negative post about your prices please leave internet and forums, they are not places for you

oh.. ps. voultar, in installing the rgb mod in 2 minutes i refer to solder the modern rgb kit, not the old version one of course.

Quote:
It's help undeserved and shouldn't be wasted on him.

:lol: nice, and who said that? God? what a megalomaniac you are...please calm down voultar

Quote:
when you can't even do something as rudimentary as putting decoupling caps on the 5V rail to mitigate jail-bars??

ahahahahahahhaah that's ridicolous! first i have already modded a white pce time ago with the same jailbar mod, the only reason that not worked on the duoR is because i'm using wrong type caps (that worked PERFECTLY on white pce btw), after using the ceramic ones, no problem. where you see that i cant do a really simple mod like that? ahahaha

OH and about pm's that was your reply
Quote:
Go fuck yourself. Nobody cares, nobody likes you. I'm glad you were banned. I can't wait for it to happen again.


SO....who is the trouble-making troll that have started and then continue the flame even here on this topic from another forum? me or you? until contrary my post was inerent to the topic....yours not.


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:16 am 


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Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 539
Location: USA
Oh, just keep digging. The hole's only getting deeper. :D
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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:15 am 


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Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 884
Location: San Jose, CA
Arnold101 wrote:
if 1 chip is dead does not mean that all the transitor rgb mod are shit. in fact they used this mod in japan too as you can find on the scanned magazine page

Just because it came from Japan doesn't necessarily make it good.

Also you do realize that particular mod design was published in 1988, right? The GameSX page where it was posted also hasn't been updated since 2004 (the entire site itself is badly outdated but that's for whole 'nother post). So which mod would you choose? A nearly 30-year old janky amp that gives inconsistent results and is time-consuming to build, or a modern IC-based solution that is consistent no matter the console and can even be bought as a DIY kit from several reputable sources?

Arnold101 wrote:
other guys here mod a ps3 and xbox360 for 30euro, that is a hard work not a rgb amp.. they are onest people not like you.

If I saw people offering those kinds of mods for 30 Euro I'd ask for pics of their work. Usually with prices like that you get what you pay for...


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:22 am 



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 18
ApolloBoy wrote:

Also you do realize that particular mod design was published in 1988, right? The GameSX page where it was posted also hasn't been updated since 2004 (the entire site itself is badly outdated but that's for whole 'nother post). So which mod would you choose? A nearly 30-year old janky amp that gives inconsistent results and is time-consuming to build, or a modern IC-based solution that is consistent no matter the console and can even be bought as a DIY kit from several reputable sources?


yes i know its a old mod.
Quote:
If I saw people offering those kinds of mods for 30 Euro I'd ask for pics of their work. Usually with prices like that you get what you pay for...

i saw tons of photos of their work on his fb page and is very professional, not only mod but repairs at motherboard too


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 Post subject: Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:57 pm 



Joined: 10 Mar 2017
Posts: 1
Hi,

I was amazed to see how well the two 4,7uF ceramic caps solution worked for me.... AMAZING. I looked and I looked and couldn't find a trace of jailbars on my PCE DUO.

I also want to perform the mod on my SuperGrafx but can't find the info online about the analog and digital cirquit 4x100nF caps anywhere. I know the caps are always underneath the 6260 chip but I need to be sure before I do it.

Does anyone here be so king and post a picture with the analog and digital caps marked for the SuperGrafx so I can do the jailbar fix? Its the only one I really can't find..


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