Best Version of PS2, PS2 Modchip, and SNES?

[fernan1234]

FMCB/FHDB both can also support >40GB (up to 2TB last time I checked) with a SATA drive.

I haven't looked into HDDOSD much, but it looks good for people who like a "stock" sort of aesthetic. I wouldn't give up all the features of OPL for it though.

[maxtherabbit]

FMCB/FHDB both can also support >40GB (up to 2TB last time I checked) with a SATA drive.

I haven't looked into HDDOSD much, but it looks good for people who like a "stock" sort of aesthetic. I wouldn't give up all the features of OPL for it though.

you don't, OPL is 100% compatible with HDDOSD you can launch it directly from the dashboard

[fernan1234]

That sounds better. Are DVD9 games supported from the HD already? When I looked it up they weren't, only from network, which is kind of a deal breaker.

[maxtherabbit]

That sounds better. Are DVD9 games supported from the HD already? When I looked it up they weren't, only from network, which is kind of a deal breaker.

yessir

I personally use mini-OPL which is basically an OPL shim that launches a single game directly from the dash so I can have neat official looking icons for my games, but you can still use the traditional OPL and launch games through its menu (which is better if you have like 100s of games on the HDD) regardless, DVD9 is good to go

[fernan1234]

Yeah I think this pays off more for a small game collection. I filled up a 2TB drive... obviously overkill, but it was the only way to ensure I'd never have to touch the drive again to install another game.

[Classicgamer]

The best PS1 is the blue debug stations. They have no issues with non-mod-chip compatible games or free mcboot compatibility issues.

Are you talking about the Net Yaroze?

They're similar, but the Net Yaroze, iirc, was marketted to a sort of enthusiast dev-oriented consumer, while the blue debug units s/he's referring to were used by devs in a professional environment, if that makes any sense. They're the PS1 equivelant of TEST PS2s, while the Net Yaroze is kind of like a TOOL PS2.

Yup and they are different colors. The Net Yaroze is black and not as good (or as cheap) as the blue debug stations or the gray Sony game testers units.

[Classicgamer]

Are you talking about the Net Yaroze?[/quote]
They're similar, but the Net Yaroze, iirc, was marketted to a sort of enthusiast dev-oriented consumer, while the blue debug units s/he's referring to were used by devs in a professional environment, if that makes any sense. They're the PS1 equivelant of TEST PS2s, while the Net Yaroze is kind of like a TOOL PS2.[/quote]

Are the blue PS1 Debug stations and the PS2 "TEST" stations the only official units that can run burned CD-Rs or burned DVD-R without any modchip or softmod? Just wondering, because I see a few other kind of dev/debug related units.[/quote]

No but all official models that can play backups with no mods were made for either developers or game testers / press.

I had a friend who was a Sony PS1 game tester (which I thought was the coolest job ever when I was a kid). They used regular-looking gray playstations but they could run back-ups.

[Taiyaki]

In regards to best PS2 modchip:
I'm not a modder and have never installed these chips myself but I've had chips installed in most of my PS2 systems, and most my friends have as well so I have some degree of familiarity with them. In the earlier days I think Messiah was probably considered the best choice, but I think now a days maybe Matrix Infinity. I don't think there's much choice with the slim, it will probably come down to 2 or 3 choices but Matrix Infinity is very good.

For the SNES:
I favor the original of course. Any version although preferably not a two chip.

[donluca]

What about the PS-X? The media player version of the PS2?

Has any progress been made to load games from its HD or via network?

(for those who don't know what I'm talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSX_(digi ... _recorder) )

[fernan1234]

I could swear I saw that there's a custom version/install of FMCB/FHDB for the PS-X.

[donluca]

Found this on a Russian forum: http://www.ps-gamers.ru/forum/26-257-1

Not sure if it's the most updated one though. Very interesting nonetheless.

[Lawfer]

Found this on a Russian forum: http://www.ps-gamers.ru/forum/26-257-1

Not sure if it's the most updated one though. Very interesting nonetheless.

I always wanted a PSX because with it you can quit a game by exiting and coming back on the XMB dashboard just like on PS3 and PS4, unlike on a PS2 where you have to reset the console to switch games. But it was only ever released in Japan and so I never got one because of the region lock (98 percent of my PS2 games are USA).

[Classicgamer]

I am surprised that, in the age of cheap chip writers, nobody has come up with a mod to put the debug system bios on a consumer PS2 (or PS3).

As far as I can tell, the only reason why the Test PS2 can load backups and import games is the different bios.

[nmalinoski]

WinHIIP is the old transfer and format tool. HDL Dump Helper GUI is much easier to use, and can format the disk and transfer games directly to the HDD like WinHIIP (HDD can be formatted on uLE), so no need for slow network transfers.

I tried HDL Dump Helper GUI, and it was...not good. It really doesn't seem to do anything differently from the regular hdl_dumb program; and it requires Java, where the original does not.

That's also on top of the fact that the .exe launcher would not work for me, nor would simply running the .jar; for some reason, I could only get it running by launching java from the commandline, specifying the .jar as a parameter. I had zero problems loading the old hdl_dumb program.

Does this thing actually do anything different? If it just provides a compatibility layer for hdl_dump on macOS and Linux, okay; but then it's completely pointless on Windows, isn't it?

[donluca]

I always wanted a PSX because with it you can quit a game by exiting and coming back on the XMB dashboard just like on PS3 and PS4, unlike on a PS2 where you have to reset the console to switch games. But it was only ever released in Japan and so I never got one because of the region lock (98 percent of my PS2 games are USA).

I've recently discovered that PS2 can load games from network as well. This could be a huge game changer for the PSX as it has an ethernet port built-in.

[fernan1234]

WinHIIP is the old transfer and format tool. HDL Dump Helper GUI is much easier to use, and can format the disk and transfer games directly to the HDD like WinHIIP (HDD can be formatted on uLE), so no need for slow network transfers.

I tried HDL Dump Helper GUI, and it was...not good. It really doesn't seem to do anything differently from the regular hdl_dumb program; and it requires Java, where the original does not.

That's also on top of the fact that the .exe launcher would not work for me, nor would simply running the .jar; for some reason, I could only get it running by launching java from the commandline, specifying the .jar as a parameter. I had zero problems loading the old hdl_dumb program.

Does this thing actually do anything different? If it just provides a compatibility layer for hdl_dump on macOS and Linux, okay; but then it's completely pointless on Windows, isn't it?

It's been a long time ago so not sure, but I vaguely remember WinHIIP has a limit on the number of games it can read/write on the HDD (since it was used back when we were limited to something like 200GB), whereas hdl dumb doesn't, which is why I went with it for a 2TB drive. Don't remember having problems running it on Windows 10.

[nmalinoski]

WinHIIP is the old transfer and format tool. HDL Dump Helper GUI is much easier to use, and can format the disk and transfer games directly to the HDD like WinHIIP (HDD can be formatted on uLE), so no need for slow network transfers.

I tried HDL Dump Helper GUI, and it was...not good. It really doesn't seem to do anything differently from the regular hdl_dumb program; and it requires Java, where the original does not.

That's also on top of the fact that the .exe launcher would not work for me, nor would simply running the .jar; for some reason, I could only get it running by launching java from the commandline, specifying the .jar as a parameter. I had zero problems loading the old hdl_dumb program.

Does this thing actually do anything different? If it just provides a compatibility layer for hdl_dump on macOS and Linux, okay; but then it's completely pointless on Windows, isn't it?

It's been a long time ago so not sure, but I vaguely remember WinHIIP has a limit on the number of games it can read/write on the HDD (since it was used back when we were limited to something like 200GB), whereas hdl dumb doesn't, which is why I went with it for a 2TB drive. Don't remember having problems running it on Windows 10.

I think what I'm going to end up doing is using something like OPL Manager and just hooking the disk directly up to my PC, or I might ditch the hard disk in favor of loading over the network. All of the hdl_dumx stuff is buggy and exceptionally slow.

[fernan1234]

Wait, I think that's what I did actually. I used OPL Manager, but I thought I only used it to read the file list and generate game cover art and all that. But maybe I used it to transfer too? It's been a while. I also hooked up the drive using a IDE/SATA to USB dock.

[nmalinoski]

Wait, I think that's what I did actually. I used OPL Manager, but I thought I only used it to read the file list and generate game cover art and all that. But maybe I used it to transfer too? It's been a while. I also hooked up the drive using a IDE/SATA to USB dock.

After a little more experimentation, I wasn't able to figure out how to use OPL Manager to do everything. It completely silos 1) managing your disc images, 2) managing hard disk via network with hdl_dump, and 3) managing local hard disk; and there doesn't seem to be any kind of file commander view, with your image library on one side and your PS2 HDD (remote or local, doesn't matter) on the other to actually organize transfers. I ended up using WinHIIP for image installation and only using OPL Manager for renaming disc images and retrieving cover assets for use in OPL.

[NormalFish]

Use HDLDump to install games to HDD. OPL Manager to generate the relevant covers/screenshots/etc. for each game.

[Wolf_]

Use HDLDump to install games to HDD. OPL Manager to generate the relevant covers/screenshots/etc. for each game.

This. And if you are just looking for the best snes experience then the Super NT is my pick if you have the $220 to invest

Also I'd hold off on the psio. You need to patch every game with multiple audio files and move all multi disc games into the same folder. Sure there is a utility that will do this automatically once you combine the multi disc games but then you can't use the files on an emulator to check if the issue is with the psio or your rom. Also it doesn't have libcrypt support so if a game works unpatched or not is basically just guess and check. Major pain in the ass. Way simpler playing burned ps1 discs on a modbro ps2.

[fernan1234]

Also I'd hold off on the psio. You need to patch every game with multiple audio files and move all multi disc games into the same folder. Sure there is a utility that will do this automatically once you combine the multi disc games but then you can't use the files on an emulator to check if the issue is with the psio or your rom.

The utility does not combine multi disc games. It simply puts the disc images in the same folder and creates a playlist file that the PSIO reads for disc swapping, so there's no reason the image files could not be tested on emulators. What it does combine is multiple bin files into a single bin, which again should work fine on an emulator.

I disagree on this being a reason to hold off on the PSIO. I took a couple of hours out of a Sunday afternoon with the utility to completely set up over half a TB of disc images for the PSIO, and after that you don't really need to touch anything. And it probably only took this long in my case since I have a lot of japanese games with long names that can cause problems, so I needed to do some extra double-checking. I strongly suggest turning off verification in the utility to save a ton of time during the automatic process.

It is true that copy-protected PAL games can be problematic. My main problem with the PSIO is that there's still a number of incompatible games. On the other hand, the team does seem to respond most of the time that they'll check out the issues and hopefully fix for the next firmware. I'd call the device ready though. Tons of games are already compatible, can just move those with problems to the back of the queue for a while. Once you can enjoy disc images on original hardware there's no going back.

[Wolf_]

Also I'd hold off on the psio. You need to patch every game with multiple audio files and move all multi disc games into the same folder. Sure there is a utility that will do this automatically once you combine the multi disc games but then you can't use the files on an emulator to check if the issue is with the psio or your rom.

The utility does not combine multi disc games. It simply puts the disc images in the same folder and creates a playlist file that the PSIO reads for disc swapping, so there's no reason the image files could not be tested on emulators. What it does combine is multiple bin files into a single bin, which again should work fine on an emulator.

I disagree on this being a reason to hold off on the PSIO. I took a couple of hours out of a Sunday afternoon with the utility to completely set up over half a TB of disc images for the PSIO, and after that you don't really need to touch anything. And it probably only took this long in my case since I have a lot of japanese games with long names that can cause problems, so I needed to do some extra double-checking. I strongly suggest turning off verification in the utility to save a ton of time during the automatic process.

It is true that copy-protected PAL games can be problematic. My main problem with the PSIO is that there's still a number of incompatible games. On the other hand, the team does seem to respond most of the time that they'll check out the issues and hopefully fix for the next firmware. I'd call the device ready though. Tons of games are already compatible, can just move those with problems to the back of the queue for a while. Once you can enjoy disc images on original hardware there's no going back.

The multi disc games (according to the faq at least) need to be placed in the same folder and the utility does not place them in the same folder so for all multi disc games you need to manually combine them into one folder before running the utility. On the complete ps1 set (USA region favored & PAL as backup with JPN only as a last resort, all duplicates and multiple versions deleted) this took me several hours of combining games. Obviously if you only have 100-200 of games you personally like then this is a much simpler process but it was a real pain in the ass for me using a duplicate free complete set.

To get the games with multiple audio tracks (vast majority of the library) working the utility combines them into a single bin file and a cu2 file, and on the games with only one audio track the utility combines them into just a bin file. The retroarch ps1 core or standalone mednafen core runs games off the cue file so no every single ps1 game is now unable to be played via emulator once you run the setup utility. Unless you have a free 1.5tb of space to have a second copy of the ps1 library backed up just for emulation. This means if you are experiencing any issues playing the game and want to double check if it is playing right via emulation you need to redownload, and then who is to say you have the same copy of the rom as the one in your psio that is giving you trouble or that maybe the patch process broke it? It just adds several more troubleshooting steps that I would much rather live without. Also if it turns out the game is failing because of Libcrypt you need to redownload the rom and apply the libcrypt patch before you patch for the psio because you can't apply libcrypt patches to psio patched games so that is yet another way this device has found to make me want to take a hammer to it.

There are still many libcrypt games in the USA region and not just PAL. Luckily in my set I spent 30+ hours deleting the multiple copies (names can change between regions so you basically have to look everything up that isn't specifically listed as an exclusive to that region) and most PAL/JPN libcrypt games were released (at least initially, have fun checking which version you have) libcrypt free in the USA release. So that eliminates a lot of them and some of them even work without patching while others do not. And some, like Spyro for example appear to work only to glitch out and make them unplayable in later levels if the drm fails. And that doesn't even factor games that could just be glitched by the psio and not the lack of libcrypt support. Being able to check if the issue is caused by the psio or something else by running the rom in an emulator real fast would be incredibly handy but your entire library now doesn't work with emulators because they couldn't be bothered to offer multi bin support. Not to mention I really dislike patching games because odds are eventually someone *cough*Kevtris*cough* *cough*Sorge*cough*will make a product you don't need to patch the games to get them working and you now have 1.5tb of useless games you can't do a damn thing with.

Overall it is far from just putting a rom on a sd card and playing the game and the constant annoyances add up to be what I find to be at the very edge of the amount of frustration I'm willing to put up with. I'd rather wait 2 years or so for a Kevtris or MiSTer solution to come forth and just play burned games via modchip until then instead of dealing with the psio.

[fernan1234]

Obviously if you only have 100-200 of games you personally like then this is a much simpler process but it was a real pain in the ass for me using a duplicate free complete set.

My experience was with processing around 980 games. They were all NTSC-J though, so maybe my that's why I won't encounter as much lybcript and copy-protection BS to deal with. I imagine that working with a complete set will be significantly more annoying, I'll grant that. But again, with almost 1000 games to work with, I'd still say the experience was relatively smooth and 100% worth it once it's all said and done. Not worth waiting for a future better solution that may not even come out, IMO. Also screw burning discs. Done with that crap for good.

[Wolf_]

Obviously if you only have 100-200 of games you personally like then this is a much simpler process but it was a real pain in the ass for me using a duplicate free complete set.

My experience was with processing around 980 games. They were all NTSC-J though, so maybe my that's why I won't encounter as much lybcript and copy-protection BS to deal with. I imagine that working with a complete set will be significantly more annoying, I'll grant that. But again, with almost 1000 games to work with, I'd still say the experience was relatively smooth and 100% worth it once it's all said and done. Not worth waiting for a future better solution that may not even come out, IMO. Also screw burning discs. Done with that crap for good.

I'm 100% certain that at some point the ps1 will get a fpga implementation and odds are it will be sooner rather than later. As annoying as burning discs is it is much less annoying than having 1.5tb of games in a format you can't use for anything other than one specific device that will become useless as soon as a better alternative comes out. And it is much easier to troubleshoot when you can easily compare the data on a burned disc against your rom to make sure it is accurate and then test that rom on an emulator to make sure it plays correctly. If that means I have 100ish ps1 discs in a cd binder for the next year or two then I much prefer that over having to redownload 1.5tb of data or buy an external hd just to store a backup of my backups in unpatched format. If the psio supported multi bin images and libcrypt then it would at least be tolerable to troubleshoot but the way it is now if I encounter any problem at all I just immediately switch to a burned disc anyways because by the time I put all that effort into fixing it I'm not going to enjoy playing the game.

[orange808]

IMHO, a commercial FPGA Sony system will come with legal problems. Guaranteed.

They lost to Bleem, but that was software emulation. FPGA is emulation, but the media and Analogue have published enough hype to call it into question. Sony has tons of hype from all over the internet to present as evidence. That leaves Analogue trying to explain the actual code to a jury of "joe and jan paycheck" grandparents.

Furthermore, Bleem used real disks. Rom files were left in a grey area. So, a jailbreak would also draw Sony's ire.

[fernan1234]

or buy an external hd just to store a backup of my backups in unpatched format

This is exactly what I did to back up the original images, plus other stuff. Hard drives have gotten so cheap it's not even a problem.

Games are not patched though. Aside from libcrypt games, there is no patching done to the image files. Cue files are simply converted to cu2 files (and you can always keep the original cue, at least for single bin games). Libcrypt is supported, though I can't vouch for how good support is since I didn't need to deal with that. Sounds like you're strongly sold against this device though, so just keep doing what works for you. For others I would really suggest the PSIO way above any other currently available option.

edit: the PSIO can also coexist with modchips and other CD-R solutions, so you can also always fall back on those for the few instances when a game doesn't run properly on the PSIO.

[Wolf_]

IMHO, a commercial FPGA Sony system will come with legal problems. Guaranteed.

They lost to Bleem, but that was software emulation. FPGA is emulation, but the media and Analogue have published enough hype to call it into question. Sony has tons of hype from all over the internet to present as evidence. That leaves Analogue trying to explain the actual code to a jury of "joe and jan paycheck" grandparents.

Furthermore, Bleem used real disks. Rom files were left in a grey area. So, a jailbreak would also draw Sony's ire.

Every other Analogue product has been able to play real games so I imagine if they made a ps1 console that would as well. Also there are plenty of homebrew games that are fan made and you can always back up your physical discs digitally so there is no legal action sony could take against Analogue unless they say "pirate your ps1 roms to play them on our system!". Additionally if a jb does come out for it to allow playing roms that wouldn't even be a feature they marketed the console as having so they couldn't be sued for it because legally speaking the argument can't be made that they generated any revenue from that feature, and once again even if they did market it as being able to play roms there are plenty of legal roms out there.

[fernan1234]

That would definitely be Analogue's strategy. There's a reason why for appearance's sake it was Smokemonster who released the Sg jailbreak rather than Kevtris.

That said, I wouldn't bet at all on Analogue/Kevtris ever releasing a PS1 FPGA emulator, and not just for legal reasons. As talented as Kevtris is, the PS1 is a whole other monster that requires a shitload of very specific knowledge. The Cybdyn guys have been working on it for years, and Analogue's production cycle and marketing strategy is not really a match for that kind of development commitment. Their approach seems to be to work on less complicated systems, support it for a while after release, and move on to the next thing.

[Wolf_]

That would definitely be Analogue's strategy. There's a reason why for appearance's sake it was Smokemonster who released the Sg jailbreak rather than Kevtris.

That said, I wouldn't bet at all on Analogue/Kevtris ever releasing a PS1 FPGA emulator, and not just for legal reasons. As talented as Kevtris is, the PS1 is a whole other monster that requires a shitload of very specific knowledge. The Cybdyn guys have been working on it for years, and Analogue's production cycle and marketing strategy is not really a match for that kind of development commitment. Their approach seems to be to work on less complicated systems, support it for a while after release, and move on to the next thing.

Kevtris has already said that he is interested in making a ps1 fpga and there has already been significant progress made on the MiSTer version (but still a long ways to go). I could realistically envision a decent ps1 fpga coming out in about 2 years.

Also what the psio people did is make there own disc reading solution to interface with the io port of the ps1. While that uses a fpga that is no different than the sd2snes using a fpga to play snes games. In other words the difficulty in creating your own optical drive emulator doesn't really have anything to do with the difficulty of the system itself. They are two entirely different projects.