deinterlacing 480i for LD player

[mimylovesjapan]

Thanks to everyone here for giving me advices for having the best image for games in 240p.
I now have SNES>XRGB2>XSELECT-D4>TVSony46inch. The display is so great !

I just bought a LD player last week.
Pioneer ＣＬＤ－ＨＦ９Ｇ.
Great player, beautiful TV, great render.
But, the movies are still interlaced. Lines appears during action scenes.
I would like to buy a good deinterlacer for LD movies/anime. I don't need so much performance in upscaling or blur, etc. Just want a perfect deinterlace of 480i.
I can order something in US by ebay, but I would prefer a japanese material, if there is.

[Fudoh]

VP20/30 with ABT102, VP50, 50Pro, Edge if you want fantastic deinterlacing.

You could also try a Faroudja linedoubler for a softer, less detailed picture (which isn't the worst idea to smoothen out noisy analogue material).

To my knowledge there's no japanese product with a proper film mode.

And remember to connect your LD player through composite, not through s-video.

[mimylovesjapan]

thank you Fudoh !
I will search for something in US then.
No problem for connecting DVDO material in japan ?

[Fudoh]

No problem for connecting DVDO material in japan ?

no, they all come with multi-range PSUs.

[RocketBelt]

VP20/30 with ABT102, VP50, 50Pro, Edge if you want fantastic deinterlacing.

And remember to connect your LD player through composite, not through s-video.

Excuse my ignorance but why is that? I thought Svideo always looked better than composite.

[Fudoh]

cause LDs store the video in native analogue composite format, so the composite output is the closest you can get to untampered stream. S-Video output on a LD player has always run through an internal comb filter which might be ok in some cases, but is usually quite bad and definitely worse than the comb filter on a good video processor's input side.

[cfx]

cause LDs store the video in native analogue composite format, so the composite output is the closest you can get to untampered stream. S-Video output on a LD player has always run through an internal comb filter which might be ok in some cases, but is usually quite bad and definitely worse than the comb filter on a good video processor's input side.

You are correct of course; however, was it the case that some players, once they implemented the digital frame/field storage, did the Y/C separation undefeatably before that step, and if you used composite then it was recombined such that there was an extra step involved in using composite output on those players?

My memory on this is certainly rather fuzzy it has been so many years, but I recall that was how the Pioneer LD-S2 worked at least. For some players the A/D step may have not been part of the regular signal chain (i.e. only used for special effects like freeze frame) but on the LD-S2 I believe it was indeed always there because that's how the noise reduction and whatever other image processing it did was accomplished.

Random anecdote that's only vaguely relevant: Way back then I had an LD-S1, a PVM-2530, and an EDV-9500 ED Beta machine. My setup was such that I had to run a long cable from the sources to the monitor because of the oddly-shaped living room I had in an apartment at the time. The LD-S1 only had composite output, but I guess S-Video was better over a 20 foot run or whatever it was, as I tested and I got the best results by passing the LD player through the ED Beta and using its Y/C separator and running S-Video to the PVM-2530.

[Fudoh]

On many "newer" players the composite output is indeed a recombination of the Y/C output, but on those with adjustable comb filter settings it's not a big problem as you can pretty much disable the CF to a degree that the composite output is "good enough" for an external CF.

Of the higher end players only the X0 has a "raw" composite output, but I did comparions to my X9 using an external CF and the results were so close that I didn't bother with a X0. The only complain I have is that the X9's internal CF is broken (causing heavy checkerboarding), while it could have been as awesome as the X0's internal CF.

[nissling]

The HF9G (aka. CLD-99) has a great comb filter, kind of similar to the one found in the HLD-X0 and CLD-R7G. The Mitsubishi chip in the HLD-X9 and LD-S9 are nowhere near. I'd take that over those in the DVDO units.

[BuckoA51]

Does the VP50/50 Pro have a good comb filter then? I thought I remembered you saying it was poor.

[RocketBelt]

(causing heavy checkerboarding).

Apologies if this is off topic, but is is the checkerboarding from poor comb filtering the same as what some people call 'screen door effect'? Like some sort of dithering effect?

[Fudoh]

maybe. A few captures from a few years back:

HLD-X0 (awesome internal CF) through s-video: http://pms.hazard-city.de/toy_x0_svid.jpg
HLD-X9 (aweful internal CF) through s-video: http://pms.hazard-city.de/toy_x9_svid.jpg
HLD-X9 (aweful internal CF) through composite + external CF: http://pms.hazard-city.de/toy_x9_composite.jpg

[RocketBelt]

Yeah, that's it. That's what I see coming from a pal n64 through s-video.
Any ideas what could cause that? I've been trying to find a fix for it for ages.

[telemetry]

It's not one of those S-Video + Composite combo cables? Several discussions say that many third-party s-video cables for Nintendo systems are actually putting out composite signal.

[RocketBelt]

No it's not that, it's something in the signal, and how it is interpreted by some image processors. I know I should just brute force the problem and fit an rgb mod but it has always bothered me how the checkerboard pattern gets there in the first place. It's PAL issue only, I don't see it with using the NTSC console, that's part of the problem, nobody cares about pal (for good reasons)!
I've wondered if it just needs a resistor or something in the right place to clear it up. Seeing the same effect from bad comb filtering is a clue.

[mimylovesjapan]

OK ! I found a DVDO iScan VP50/ MM605 for 25.000 yens on ebay, and shipping in Japan !
I'll tell you the results when I will recieve it !
Thank you !

[mimylovesjapan]

OK ! just recieved my VP50.
But no cables, no AC adaptater, no remote controller.
What should i take for AC adaptater ? Is it possible to do everything without remote control ?

[Fudoh]

You need a 6V PSU with at least 5A of power. Probably not the easiest thing to find locally.

Missing remote isn't a problem, the menu gives you access to everything (I think - on the earlier iScan models test patterns couldn't be used without a remote, but I think they're accessable through the menu on your model).

[mimylovesjapan]

I don't know anything about 5A, but it means 5000mA ? because every adapter I saw was 2000mA, or max3000mA...
For remote, is it possible to use an universal remote or something ?

[Fudoh]

yes, you need 5000mA. If you have a look on ebay you can find matching ones, e.g. this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400803916975

[mimylovesjapan]

Do you have something similar in Japan ?　I am searching now in Amazon jp. Yahoo Auction.

[mimylovesjapan]

What about that
http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00NB1CQHA

[Fudoh]

What about that
http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00NB1CQHA

wrong specs: DC5V/6A

You need 6 Volts at 5 ampere. Unfortunately there aren't many options.

[mimylovesjapan]

OK ! Thanks ! I bought the adapter you recomended me. I wish that 5A will be Ok, as it is written 7A on the back of DVDO... just for curiosity, why 5A seems enough ? I am bad in electronics, sorry !
Any recomendation for remote control ? like universal remote compatible (better if I can find it in japan although...)

[Fudoh]

The 5A is definitely good enough for the VP50. On the 50Pro it gets too hot and is only suited for short sessions.

'Any recomendation for remote control ?

since you don't have remote to learn from you need a remote that has the DVDO command set in its database.

[mimylovesjapan]

OK ! Thank you very much !

[mimylovesjapan]

OK ! I get all the stuffs !
The VP50 is really a killer machine !
LD looks great and my TV now.
I tried many settings, with Video cable or S-Video, and finally, S-Video looks better. I don't know why, but maybe the combo filter on my LD player is better than my TV.

[Fudoh]

certainly as nissling pointed out - - the HF9G seems to have a great CF compared to the X9.

You can pair the VP50 with the XRGB-2 for overscan and geometry controls that your TV can't offer.

[mimylovesjapan]

how could I pair VP50 with XRGB-2 ? There is no RGB input/output on the VP50.

issue : black screen when I connect my PS3 HDMI to the VP50. Do you know why ?

[Fudoh]

how could I pair VP50 with XRGB-2 ? There is no RGB input/output on the VP50.

VGA to BNC/RGBHV cable.

black screen when I connect my PS3 HDMI to the VP50. Do you know why ?

handshake issue maybe ? Try switching the inputs with the PS3 switched on. Or you have some settings on your PS3 enabled that the VP50 doesn't support. 10-bit output maybe ?