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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:52 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1019
Location: Toronto, Canada
RGB32E wrote:
leonk wrote:
but overkillfor duo/duo-r as you will not use the audio amp nor sync buffer.

Speak for yourself! :lol: It's a kind of a waste not to use the sync buffer, and then require customers to use a cable with a sync separator circuit. :? If a switch for Cv/CS75 isn't an option for whatever reason an internal cable swap is an alternative, or even a kit that reads controller input to change the output signals (ultra fancy borti-like)! :P


There are many different RGB amps out there; every one has it's pros and cons. As I already mentioned, for me PERSONALLY, I find the AV-Driver + cost of 8 pin DIN + cost of SCART cable + shipping from Australia ($30!!) to be an overkill for DUO and DUO-R simply because it comes out to be more than twice as expensive as the alternative solutions. One alternative solution (find it in buy-and-sell here) includes the 8 pin DIN and SCART cable with the sync stripper and the RGB amp (with the correct resistor values as recommended by Tim on another forum) for the same cost as just the AV-Driver.

If I was doing a PCE or TG16 install, AV-Driver is all I would use.

I have done both for many different customers, and I have also done A/B comparisons on my 20" Sony PVM, I can't see the difference. I have never seen picture noise/diagonal lines using either RGB amps on my setup, nor the 2 XRGB-mini setups I've setup.

Off topic: The only time I've ever seen diag lines is with the NESRGB + OKI-78SR-5 Switching Regulator that Tim sells. But I've already told him about it, and all the solutions he suggested didn't fix the problem. I've stopped using that regulator as a result.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:00 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1019
Location: Toronto, Canada
the_crayon_king wrote:
I'm just curious about CS#75 as I hadn't really noticed the phrase before.
Is it just TTL C-sync with a resistance applied to get it down to .3v p-p or is it more complicated than that ?


You need to be mindful when using CS#75 with XRGB-Mini. I've discovered that some SCART sellers on eBay (like retro_console_accessories) adds extra components into their cable that will make CS#75 not usable with the XRGB-Mini.

For instance, her SNES CSYNC Euro SCART cable has a 180 ohm resistor on pin 3 / csync on the glued console end! When you try to use this cable with the NESRGB set to CS#75 with an XRGB-Mini, you get audio + black screen. You either fix the cable (break and glue) or set the NESRGB to TTL (to match the SNES CSYNC as it's TTL).

I believe a lot of SCART cable makers assume that your console will output TTL and build their cables around that. Don't assume anything without measuring first. (Learned this the hard way with NESRGB + CS#75)


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:27 am 


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Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 668
Location: Seattle, WA
leonk wrote:
You need to be mindful when using CS#75 with XRGB-Mini. I've discovered that some SCART sellers on eBay (like retro_console_accessories) adds extra components into their cable that will make CS#75 not usable with the XRGB-Mini.

CS#75 itself works fine with the mini. The designation basically means that it is composite sync that has been knocked down from something too high (like TTL, which can pulse to +5V). The SNES cable is designed to work with a SNES - not a NESRGB. The NESRGB can internally be configured to output what is needed, and a straight-through cable should do the job.

There is no reason for the people making the cables to not assume you are hooking up said cables to the device for which they designed the cables.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:52 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1019
Location: Toronto, Canada
CkRtech wrote:
There is no reason for the people making the cables to not assume you are hooking up said cables to the device for which they designed the cables.


... agreed.. except she does say "NES RGB" in her listing as a supported console. :)


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:02 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1160
if you have any components to be added or removed from the cables just ask her when you purchase something.

I have bought a few Genesis 2 cables with no components at all in them for my RGB turbografx because the amp board i installed has them.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:24 pm 


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Posts: 668
Location: Seattle, WA
leonk wrote:
... agreed.. except she does say "NES RGB" in her listing as a supported console. :)

Ha! Oh man. Didn't know that!


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:26 am 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1160
The best kit ive seen for the turbografx 16 and pc engine is the ones low-budget sells. they solder right on to the expansion port pins on the bottom of the motherboard, they use a lot less wires because of it, and they already have all components on the kit including caps and an lm1881. they have rgb, ,Composite video, and they also have an extra board for audio.

I use cables with no components in them with these kits.

I do like the AV Driver for other systems though. i wonder if the component video section of the av driver is going to get added?


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:27 am 


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Posts: 3
A guy gave me his PolyGameMaster Board which was consolized poorly.. all connections to the scart-output were made directly without any parts, no wonder the image an the tv looked nothing like what we would call a decent rgb-picture.
I remembered that I had an AV-DRIVER-Board from Tim laying around so finally I had a good reason to test it. I'm totally pleased with the outcome, installation is easy and it proved to be a very versatile pcb.

Now here's my problem and I hope that one of you tech-guys can help me out here...
I had no 10K-pots and the ones that were already installed were 1K I guess, resulting in a too dark image. TBH I don't like pots and I really would like to replace them with 3 voltage deviders.
Luckily the PGM has a pause-option (DIP#5) and the game had a sequence where the screen turned all white, so I took the chance and captured that moment on my scope:

Image

There are 2 options for me now,
#1: either I get a 10K Pot, set the signal to 0.7Vpp, measure the resistance of the pot and use these values for my voltage devider or
#2: ask you guys if anybody is able to calculate the values by formula and explain how to get there.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:20 am 


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Posts: 1400
Arcade-TV wrote:
There are 2 options for me now,
#1: either I get a 10K Pot, set the signal to 0.7Vpp, measure the resistance of the pot and use these values for my voltage devider or
#2: ask you guys if anybody is able to calculate the values by formula and explain how to get there.


I've been meaning to install an AVD in my Super Nova for a while now and have had some of the same questions! Per Tim's instructions (and how pots work) it should just be a matter of selecting two resistors with the correct values where the sum of resistance is 10k. The correct ratio can be obtained using the standard voltage divider equation.
Image

Image
Since RL is extremely high (>1MOhm) when attenuation is set to none, it should be ok to ignore the value (Tim's instructions imply this).

Here's an example table of R1/2 values you can use to simulate a 10K pot in this application.
Image

Hence, if (for example) the PGM outputs 5Vpp, you could use a series 8k6 followed by a 1k4 to ground to simulate a 10k pot to reduce the signal down to 0.7Vpp (5 * 0.14 = 0.7).


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:41 am 


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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 3
Thank you very much for this sumUp!
I can definitely work with that.

Right now I managed to produce a decent picture by fixing a stupid mistake (I got the wrong pin on the pots that I suspected to be the wiper) plus adjusting the pots one by one while watching the Outputs from the AVD on the scope...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wbapmykdejsz ... 1.jpg?dl=1

I know the pots are not 10K but the selected ratio works and I'll do it right when I messed with the voltage deviders.
Also I really need to build moosman's rgb-shifter-circuit because the PGM produces a sync signal that shifts the screen almost 2 inches/5 centimeters to the left.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:44 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1160
could anyone list the ideal av driver settings for each classic console that needs it? i really dont understand how to set it using tims chart, but am probably interested in getting some.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:13 am 



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
Hello,

I've just installed the AV Driver in my PC Engine Duo Japanese version. I've tried to follow the instructions in this thread, when I finished I found it dimmed, so I put the gain at 1.7. I didn't make any attenuation as I don't really understand what it's supposed to do. In the tutorial it's said attenuate when > 1.4 but it also says that the AV Driver must be set at 1.6 in order to get that. It's not really clear because it also says to raise to 1.7 if dimmed... The colors are great compared to the Sodipeng mod which was installed before this one, colors a more regulars, blacks don't turn red etc.. But it suffers from two things. The first one is a light ghosting, compared to the sodipeng mod, texts seem to have a slightly white shade like the composite nes image. The second problem is the image is slightly shaking from time to time in the upper part of the screen. I'm using a euro scart which was sold with it and the TV is a Sony Trinitron 21", the model just before the Wega. The mod uses also pure sync.

If someone could help me with this as there's no manual yet it would be nice.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:40 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1019
Location: Toronto, Canada
You need to check your SCART cable. the provided 1.6 settings assume you have no resistors/caps in the SCART cable. If you do (especially resistors) youll get a dimmer image.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:02 pm 



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
I don't use the Sodipeng cable. It's a euro scart and it doesn't contain the stuff in the Sodipeng cable, althought it's not shielded I don't know how it affects the image . There's a resistor indeed. It's connecting 2 pins 8 and 16 together but not related to the amp. Should I remove it ? What's the relation with the image shaking in the upper part of the screen ? I was thinking about a sync problem maybe, or attenuation as I don't know how it affects the picture when activated.

Here are my settings : (set to 1.7 without attenuation)

Image

Here's my scart : (real picture)

Image

I connected the ground and the +5V like this : (picture just for example, I have the same setup)

Image

And the 8 pin connector is set up like this : (picture just for example, I have the same setup)

Image

Here's what I mean by ghosting : (it's not that bad but it doesn't exist in the Sodipeng mod the text is precise and real white on black without this halo around it)

Image


Thanks for your help


Last edited by archimage on Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:59 am, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:26 pm 


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Joined: 05 Nov 2009
Posts: 1400
Can you share pictures of your installation and symptoms?


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:39 pm 



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
Done, the flicker can't be really taken in picture, it's very slight, but still present, it's a small shaking, like the image want's to jump but it' stabilizes, it's just on the upper part. It can be noticed in the OSD DISPLAY NUMBER of the TV also.

I will take a photo of the ghosting and update the post.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:55 pm 



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
The image doesn't flicker in the S-video channel (not the right channel and not centered) but it does in AV1 (the good channel, centered but flickers every second)


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:21 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1019
Location: Toronto, Canada
pictures above broken. Please fix.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:59 pm 



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
All broken or just some of them ? I can see them all in the post


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:17 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1019
Location: Toronto, Canada
1, 2 and last broken


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:50 am 



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
I've updated, can you see them ? Today I also ordered a shielded cable, this one is not.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:32 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1019
Location: Toronto, Canada
I see it. your settings are correct. maybe bad scart cable? Ive used a few of these amps and super happy with the quality.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:49 pm 



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 10
Hello, I replaced the cable with a better one, the image is perfect ! Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:02 pm 


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Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 79
Hi there guys,

I got the AV Driver to install it on my interface unit for my pc engine, but I could not find any clear tutorial on how to do it apart from this video:
https://youtu.be/XeFFLbGDEUo

But after watching it, I still have some questions, like for example:

A: Getting 5V and Ground to the plug.
The +5 volt and ground where should you get it to attach it to the 8 Pin plug? From the interface unit board or from Etim's board?

B: Getting sound to the plug.
Where should you get the left and right audio channels from? Directly from the right of the original board (three cables within red cable enclosing (white, red and black cable)? Or first from here to Etim's board and then to the plug (aka amplified)?

C: Correct audio pins on DIN 8p panel socket.
Which pins on the 8 pin connector should the audio channels be soldered to?

leonk wrote:
If I was doing a PCE or TG16 install, AV-Driver is all I would use.


I hope you can help me with these questions. Unfortunately Tim has not upgraded the official page of the product to include the tutorial to install the AV driver on a pc engine, the official page says "soon" since long time ago. http://etim.net.au/av-driver/

Thanks! I will appreciate any guidance.


Last edited by holaplaneta on Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:20 pm 


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 1896
Location: Norway
holaplaneta wrote:
A: Getting 5V and Ground to the plug.
The +5 volt and ground where should you get it to attach it to the 8 Pin plug? From the interface unit board or from Etim's board?

B: Getting sound to the plug.
Where should you get the left and right audio channels from? Directly from the right of the original board (three cables within red cable enclosing (white, red and black cable)? Or first from here to Etim's board and then to the plug (aka amplified)?

C: Correct audio pins on DIN 8p panel socket.
Which pins on the 8 pin connector should the audio channels be soldered to?

I hope you can help me with these questions. Unfortunately Tim has not upgraded the official page of the product to include the tutorial to install the AV driver on a pc engine, the official page says "soon" since long time ago. http://etim.net.au/av-driver/

Thanks! I will appreciate any guidance.


This is how I did mine.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51869&start=112

LMK if you want me to post more hi-res pictures.
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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:08 pm 


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Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 79
Thank you!! This is really helpful.
rtw wrote:
Cabling and placement. GND and 5V is taken from the 7805, audio taken from rightmost connector

Artemio wrote:
The 7805 is a voltage regulator: http://potentiallabs.com/cart/image/cac ... 00x416.jpg
That image shows how it looks like and the pins for 5v and ground


This linked image from el buen Artemio has a broken link and is missing... and it is the one that shows where to solder 5V and ground. Mr. rtw, would you mind sharing a close up picture of the soldering points from this 7805 voltage regulator and of the "rightmost connector" where you are taking the audio from, please? Thanks!

And would you know where I can get a 8 DIN connector wiring diagram for the PC Engine Euro Scart cable? As your picture I can see that number 6 is video Green, number 8 is ground, 7 is video Red, 3 is audio right, 1 is 5V... but I can´t make out the rest because of the angle of the photo.
Image


Last edited by holaplaneta on Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:44 pm 


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Posts: 433
Location: Texas, USA
this is a diagram i made of standard pinout that most people use (Retro Console Accessories, Retro Gaming Cables, Duojindance, etc...)
http://imgur.com/a/30SmE

this is the side of the connector that you attach the wires to, not the side that the cable plugs into.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:18 am 


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Posts: 79
This is beautiful! Thanks!!


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:28 pm 


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Posts: 79
rtw wrote:
LMK if you want me to post more hi-res pictures.

Yes please! Mr. rtw, would you mind sharing a close up picture of the soldering points from this 7805 voltage regulator and of the "rightmost connector" where you are taking the audio from, please? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:54 pm 


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 1896
Location: Norway
holaplaneta wrote:
rtw wrote:
LMK if you want me to post more hi-res pictures.

Yes please! Mr. rtw, would you mind sharing a close up picture of the soldering points from this 7805 voltage regulator and of the "rightmost connector" where you are taking the audio from, please? Thanks!


http://gameordie.com/tmp/ifu-30a_rgb.jpg

LMK if you need more details.
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