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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:12 pm 



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
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So when are these gonna be officially available? :)


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:04 am 


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cfx wrote:
So when are these gonna be officially available? :)


When Tim decides that the documentation is optimal. Perhaps NEVER!!! :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:16 pm 


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Probably before 2015s out hopefully


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:56 pm 


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Hey,

I've been given one of these pcb's to fit into a Duo, though I'm not too clear where to start. I've modded a lot of consoles over the years though never a PC Engine! I'm beginning with a full capacitor replacement, then the RGB mod. Is there an installation guide somewhere for this pcb or some pics of the finished mod? Any help would be fantastic! :)
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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:13 am 


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Did you tell Tim which console you were going to be modding when you bought the AV Driver? He has documentation with recommended settings for the board based on the console you are using with it. You can always tweak it beyond the default settings if you feel you need more of a boost (image too dark, etc).


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:29 am 


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CkRtech wrote:
Did you tell Tim which console you were going to be modding when you bought the AV Driver? He has documentation with recommended settings for the board based on the console you are using with it. You can always tweak it beyond the default settings if you feel you need more of a boost (image too dark, etc).



I did not purchase the pcb, it was given to me to install :(

I've read the instructions in the first post however I cannot find any information on how to actually install the thing, such as which video signal goes to which part of the pcb, where to take the 4 video signals from (I can only see 3 video outputs on the main chip at pins 47 / 49 / 51), or where to hack the audio signals on the PC Engine.
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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:44 pm 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 469
Location: Sydney, Australia
gahrling wrote:

I've read the instructions in the first post however I cannot find any information on how to actually install the thing, such as which video signal goes to which part of the pcb, where to take the 4 video signals from (I can only see 3 video outputs on the main chip at pins 47 / 49 / 51), or where to hack the audio signals on the PC Engine.


You need to solder to the video chip pins. Three video signals R, G, B (to video amp inputs). One sync signal (to sync amp). Don't use the audio section (there's already a good audio output from this console).
http://console5.com/wiki/File:HuC6260-Pinout.png

I have a PC Engine Duo here so I will have more info about this one. I haven't looked at it yet though.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:40 pm 


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viletim wrote:
You need to solder to the video chip pins. Three video signals R, G, B (to video amp inputs). One sync signal (to sync amp). Don't use the audio section (there's already a good audio output from this console).
http://console5.com/wiki/File:HuC6260-Pinout.png

I have a PC Engine Duo here so I will have more info about this one. I haven't looked at it yet though.



Hey dude, thanks for the reply.

I'm looking at that pinout image you linked to, just to be clear which chip pin should I use to access the sync signal you talk about? I see numbers 43, 44, or 45 as options?
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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:32 pm 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Location: Sydney, Australia
gahrling wrote:
viletim wrote:



Hey dude, thanks for the reply.

I'm looking at that pinout image you linked to, just to be clear which chip pin should I use to access the sync signal you talk about? I see numbers 43, 44, or 45 as options?


44 sync.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:39 pm 


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Thanks, I'll let you know if I run into any other trouble : )


Last edited by gahrling on Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:52 pm 



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 134
Location: San Jose
Hi
Are these for sale? I've sent two emails to order@etim.net.au with no response. I would like to pick up two these boards.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:16 pm 


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Ok, starting to get a bit confused again.

Do I also need to install a new 8pin DIN socket to get RGB? Or should I not tamper with the existing 5pin DIN socket at all?


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:38 pm 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 1800
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Do the math, how will you fit R, G, B, L, R, gnd and +5v on only five pins?

How's abouts you google PC Engine RGB mod and take a look at some pictures and videos.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:46 pm 


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kamiboy wrote:
Do the math, how will you fit R, G, B, L, R, gnd and +5v on only five pins?

How's abouts you google PC Engine RGB mod and take a look at some pictures and videos.


Thanks for your contribution.

I've looked at all the guides I can find but none of them are complete, and more specifically none of them relate to this particular PCB.

For a start it is not clear where both L & R audio lines come from if replacing the 5pin jack as I'm assuming there was only one audio line to begin with. I've also seen guides where people have kept the existing jack and installed an 8pin DIN or 9pin D-sub somewhere else on the console shell.

The videos are even worse as none of them go into any detail, but instead skip whole steps to the finished mod.

Perhaps you can provide a link on how to correctly wire a PC Duo 8pin mod to a euro SCART plug? Because google comes up with all sorts of conflicting answers, like using different value resistors between SCART pins or none at all.

Which is why I'm directly asking more experienced people for advice...

EDIT: it looks like both L & R audio points are native to the 5pin jack, so that's great and one less thing to worry about!

Question for viletim - do I need to add resistors to the SCART plug I make or does your PCB already handle this?


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:24 pm 



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You are right in that there is no complete guide out there. I had to patch together my own method from various sources.

Basically You install an 8 pin port where the 5 pin was. You keep the function of the 5 pins that were already there. You then just solder R, G & B to the remaining three extra pins.

Also you will need to mod the 8 pin connector so it fits into where the 5 pin was, as it will not out of the box. I think there was a video out there somewhere that showed you how to do this, but I'll be danmed if I can remember where.

Welcome to the haphazard world of console modding.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:38 pm 


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Heh, I'm no stranger to modding but new to the PCE Duo :)

Thanks for the info, it's appreciated. Now I just need to figure out the SCART wiring but I'm asking a friend who will hopefully get back to me soon. For clarification I'll post up his answer here.

But I still need to know if by using viletim's pcb whether I need to add resistors to the SCART pins or not so I'll see if viletim replies.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:59 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1025
Location: Toronto, Canada
Tim typically designs all his PCBs to be straight through with no extra components required.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:29 pm 



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 34
I sent Tim an email, I'll be very excited to have any kind RGB solution for my PC Engine,

I plan on placing an NES and PCE in my Mario Bros Arcade Machine, as well as a Simple MAME setup to host a few games that MAME actually plays well (as far as horizontal classics go) :)


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:01 am 



Joined: 07 Nov 2015
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bumping this - are we any closer to a release date?

I'm very interested in installing one of these into my PC Engine Duo, but my questions a few months ago to Tim to obtain one never got a reply...

thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:44 am 


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The AV-Driver is now available on Tim's shop!

http://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=211


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:51 am 


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Blaasvis wrote:
I am wondering, Would this also work for the SNES mini/jr RGB restore ?

On the assembler forums there is a full thread to get the RGB signal in line.
Since the ths3741 seem to be too bright in some cases.


"ths3741"? You mean the THS 7314 right ?
It's out of spec; but I use 100 ohm resistors on the THS7314 outputs and the colors seem fine to me.
With 75ohm the colors are just too bright and you can't simply turn them down on the set as they get maxed (particularly on greens).
On retrorgb.com they suggest using 1.1k resistors going from the inputs to ground but this looks too dim to me compared to native composite or (modded) s-video. Then again I'm using an XRGB-mini so your results may vary.

Anyway I don't want to derail so back to the AV driver. I installed one in my Turbo Duo and its fantastic and i have no complaints.Would suggest anyone soldering to the HU chip might ought to get 30AWG wire. I also used a 8 pin mini din connector for rgb out as I didn't want to mess with the on board connector. I mounted above/on the cart slot about halfway sitting off. There may be a better place for it but it made sense to me at the time. Hopefully that info may be of use to someone attempting the Duo mod with this.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:41 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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the_crayon_king wrote:
I installed one in my Turbo Duo and its fantastic and i have no complaints.Would suggest anyone soldering to the HU chip might ought to get 30AWG wire. I also used a 8 pin mini din connector for rgb out as I didn't want to mess with the on board connector. I mounted above/on the cart slot about halfway sitting off. There may be a better place for it but it made sense to me at the time. Hopefully that info may be of use to someone attempting the Duo mod with this.


Why would you want to drill a new hole into a beautiful retro console??

What I do with Duo / Duo-R is desolder the 5 pin DIN, take it apart, and swap the ground pins into the replacement 8 pin DIN. (on the replacement 8 pin DIN, the 2 front ground pins are in the wrong spot.. but since the housing is identical, you can swap the ground pins!!!)

Now, the new 8 pin DIN is a direct drop into the existing holes (with the 3 RGB pins floating). From the outside, nothing physically changes.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:59 pm 


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leonk wrote:
Why would you want to drill a new hole into a beautiful retro console??

What I do with Duo / Duo-R is desolder the 5 pin DIN, take it apart, and swap the ground pins into the replacement 8 pin DIN. (on the replacement 8 pin DIN, the 2 front ground pins are in the wrong spot.. but since the housing is identical, you can swap the ground pins!!!)

Now, the new 8 pin DIN is a direct drop into the existing holes (with the 3 RGB pins floating). From the outside, nothing physically changes.


Well I guess I did it to keep composite video ? I don't like removing any video options besides RF.
I'm the type who drills holes in and paints his consoles all the time so IDK the idea of holes doesn't bother me.

Using the 5pin din hole would look a lot neater though.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:27 pm 



Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 87
Out of curiosity, who's tried this on something other than the PCE/TG16 or Supergun? What kind of results did you have?


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:14 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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Location: Toronto, Canada
the_crayon_king wrote:
leonk wrote:
Why would you want to drill a new hole into a beautiful retro console??

What I do with Duo / Duo-R is desolder the 5 pin DIN, take it apart, and swap the ground pins into the replacement 8 pin DIN. (on the replacement 8 pin DIN, the 2 front ground pins are in the wrong spot.. but since the housing is identical, you can swap the ground pins!!!)

Now, the new 8 pin DIN is a direct drop into the existing holes (with the 3 RGB pins floating). From the outside, nothing physically changes.


Well I guess I did it to keep composite video ? I don't like removing any video options besides RF.
I'm the type who drills holes in and paints his consoles all the time so IDK the idea of holes doesn't bother me.

Using the 5pin din hole would look a lot neater though.


;)

You know the 8 pin DIN doesnt loose composite video. The OEM composite cable fits right into the 8 pin DIN.

In fact. composite video is required for sync. When I mod this console, I use a sync stripper in the scart cable to get csync.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:10 am 


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leonk wrote:
the_crayon_king wrote:
leonk wrote:
Why would you want to drill a new hole into a beautiful retro console??

What I do with Duo / Duo-R is desolder the 5 pin DIN, take it apart, and swap the ground pins into the replacement 8 pin DIN. (on the replacement 8 pin DIN, the 2 front ground pins are in the wrong spot.. but since the housing is identical, you can swap the ground pins!!!)

Now, the new 8 pin DIN is a direct drop into the existing holes (with the 3 RGB pins floating). From the outside, nothing physically changes.


Well I guess I did it to keep composite video ? I don't like removing any video options besides RF.
I'm the type who drills holes in and paints his consoles all the time so IDK the idea of holes doesn't bother me.

Using the 5pin din hole would look a lot neater though.


;)

You know the 8 pin DIN doesnt loose composite video. The OEM composite cable fits right into the 8 pin DIN.

In fact. composite video is required for sync. When I mod this console, I use a sync stripper in the scart cable to get csync.


I use C-sync boosted with the AV driver for sync. Not everyone has sync strippers in their setups so I tend not to rely on sync on composite for RGB.

I however would love to know if there is any benefit of using native C-sync over stripped composite video. That might make me change my mind in the future since I do happen to have a sync stripper/XRGB combo.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:26 pm 



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The 8 pin DIN does not have enough pins for stereo, comp video and csync. Something had to go. I chose csync as it can easily be restored from comp video with a stripper in the scart cable (not at xrgb or wht not). The scart cable with stripper custom made for this console is about $10 or so.

persobally, I think the AV driver makes a lot of sense in pc engine / tg16 (due to the audio amp) but overkillfor duo/duo-r as you will not use the audio amp nor sync booster.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:37 pm 


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the_crayon_king wrote:
I use C-sync buffered with the AV driver for sync. Not everyone has sync strippers in their setups so I tend not to rely on sync on composite for RGB.


What sync configuration are you using with the AVD? Remember that the AVD can output both CS75 ("75 ohm" 0.3Vpp) and CSYNC (TTL 5Vpp).

the_crayon_king wrote:
I however would love to know if there is any benefit of using native C-sync over stripped composite video. That might make me change my mind in the future since I do happen to have a sync stripper/XRGB combo.


One benefit is higher quality transmission of the video signal over a variety of cabling. Specifically, lower quality multi-conductor cabling (e.g. standard cabling from Retro Gaming/Console/etc.) allows for inductive coupling of composite video on to the RGB signals that results in picture noise/diagonal lines. When CS75 is used instead of composite video over the same cabling, the coupling artifacts are either minimized or effectively eliminated. Unless one is using a switcher or a monitor that requires TTL (5Vpp) sync, a sync separator should not be required. While the XRGB-mini "works" with both CS75 and CSYNC, it is recommended to use CS75.

leonk wrote:
In fact. composite video is required for sync.

Yes, if you don't provide any means for CSYNC or CS75 output! :P

leonk wrote:
When I mod this console, I use a sync stripper in the scart cable to get csync.

TTL output mode only I take it (datasheet verbatim)?

leonk wrote:
Something had to go. I chose csync as it can easily be restored from comp video with a stripper in the scart cable (not at xrgb or wht not). The scart cable with stripper custom made for this console is about $10 or so.

What does one get for your $10 cable (pictures/etc.)? :|

leonk wrote:
but overkillfor duo/duo-r as you will not use the audio amp nor sync buffer.

Speak for yourself! :lol: It's a kind of a waste not to use the sync buffer, and then require customers to use a cable with a sync separator circuit. :? If a switch for Cv/CS75 isn't an option for whatever reason an internal cable swap is an alternative, or even a kit that reads controller input to change the output signals (ultra fancy borti-like)! :P


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:27 pm 



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Posts: 1186
on my snes i get a checkerboard pattern in the video if i use composite video as sync.

csync eliminates it.

some other consoles also get interference from cvid sync.


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 Post subject: Re: AV-DRIVER: Universal RGB A/V Amplifier - Ideal for PCE/T
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:25 pm 


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Wow RGB32E you have answered all the things. Stellar.

I am in fact using CS75 not TTL C-Sync I know this because I went by the recommended jumper settings for this mod.

I'm just curious about CS#75 as I hadn't really noticed the phrase before.
Is it just TTL C-sync with a resistance applied to get it down to .3v p-p or is it more complicated than that ?


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