Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cables

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
Post Reply
StriderNo9
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:37 pm

Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cables

Post by StriderNo9 »

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about the component cables HD Retrovision got funded on Kickstarter (http://www.hdretrovision.com)
Assuming this works and games look better on HD TVs, any idea if this will also fix lag that HD TVs put out? Will converting the signal from the consoles before they reach the TV (assuming that's what these component cables do) reduce lag since the TV won't have as much work to do? Is that the theory behind these cables? I've been to their site and I don't find any mention of input lag which to me is far bigger an issue.

(BTW sorry for all the threads, if it's too many and there is a better place to ask these questions I'll do that).
User avatar
blizzz
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by blizzz »

No, these cables / converters won't reduce input lag.
User avatar
Xan
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:04 pm

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Xan »

This seems an interesting idea for the American market, they also talk about some per-console "signal conditioning" in the FAQ. These cables don't scale so an HDTV certainly needs to have proper 240p support though. Any discussions about lag need to be in regard to individual TVs.
User avatar
FBX
Posts: 2347
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:18 am
Location: DFW area, Texas
Contact:

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by FBX »

From what I understand, the cables convert RGB and Sync-on-composite into component video without any upscaling. This means your display may have trouble if it can't handle 240p signals properly. These would be great cables for older CRTs with component input, however.

I heard they are considering making their own upscaling device as well in order to help with the 240p compatibility issue on some displays.
User avatar
Josh128
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:01 am

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Josh128 »

Nice product, I wonder how its powered? I guess these systems all put out DC power of some sort needed.

Interesting they said the Genesis 2 is compatible? I thought it didnt have RGB out?

Also interesting, is a quote from the technical page:

"On the other hand, a project we had our sights on for a while would be duplicating the official Gamecube Component Cable. This is the one that goes in the Digital A/V port, which unfortunately only half of the Gamecubes have. Nintendo dropped the port sometime during the Gamecube's life to save on costs. Although it is a project we would like to do, we can't delegate any resources to it right now. "

Would be nice to have a product available where you dont have to disassemble your Gamecube and program an FPGA to clone it.
Grimakis
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Grimakis »

The Genesis 2 does have RGB out.
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Genesis 3 is the one with apparently spotty RGB support out-of-the-box (I hope to test this for myself soon).
User avatar
Josh128
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:01 am

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Josh128 »

I may need to break out my old Genesis 2 and repair the power button then, and get one to hook it to my daughters Sony FDT Wega. I didnt think they had the RGB out. Does it ( the model 2) require the boosted sync as well?

As far as input lag, theres no lag introduced with current methods using RGB SCART > YUV transcoders, this will be the same as those. So they introduce ZERO lag, just like a CSY-2100/clone. Makes no difference where in the cable the transcoding takes place.
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by BuckoA51 »

My guess was the OP was talking about the input lag inherent in HDTVs especially when running interlaced content, and the fact that 240p is almost always handled as 480i, rather than any input lag introduced from transcoding RGB to component.

Either way, these cables won't introduce any lag themselves as you rightly point out, but certainly won't help with existing lag from the HDTV deinterlacing already progressive content.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
StriderNo9
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by StriderNo9 »

BuckoA51 wrote:My guess was the OP was talking about the input lag inherent in HDTVs especially when running interlaced content, and the fact that 240p is almost always handled as 480i, rather than any input lag introduced from transcoding RGB to component.

Either way, these cables won't introduce any lag themselves as you rightly point out, but certainly won't help with existing lag from the HDTV deinterlacing already progressive content.

Thank you for the clear answer.
User avatar
BazookaBen
Posts: 2077
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by BazookaBen »

I'd like to see a comparison of these cables against one of the popular RGB>Component transcoders like the Audio Authority 9A60. I think have a separate converter is more practical in the long run so you don't have to buy one for each system.
User avatar
CkRtech
Posts: 668
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by CkRtech »

BazookaBen wrote:I'd like to see a comparison of these cables against one of the popular RGB>Component transcoders like the Audio Authority 9A60. I think have a separate converter is more practical in the long run so you don't have to buy one for each system.
True, but I imagine their market is geared toward the people that occasionally dig out that one old system or only have one or two old systems hooked up all the time rather than many of us here that manage to form RGB Voltron using gaming consoles.
User avatar
Josh128
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:01 am

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Josh128 »

The cool thing is that you dont need external power for them, thats nice. As far as extra cables go, 98% of users probably dont own SCART /RGB cables anyway, so they would still have to buy a cable if they (like I did) used an external converter.
User avatar
JBC
Posts: 3818
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:14 am

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by JBC »

I'll definitely be picking these up as I just use a CRT for all my older consoles. I can't believe it's taken this long for something like this to happen.
Godzilla was an inside job
User avatar
Hoagtech
Posts: 939
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:53 am
Location: Bellingham, WA

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Hoagtech »

the only way they would eliminate lag is if it was line doubled to a 480p source internally and only on modern day LCD panels. A Simple CRT treats 240i, 240p, and 480i as same in regards to lag, but modern sets scale 480p much faster than 240 I,p 480i.

I could see fitting a YUV transcoder inline inside the connector case but I doubt there is any 480p up scaling going on with a power source coming from a pin inside the connector. But who knows? Is it out yet? Maybe it comes with a "brick" like the xbox.

I seemed to recall a guy like fudoh on one of these forums that explained his life story and search for a perfect pixel that started at a snes gaming convention, anyways in his story he covered making a custom component cable but the picture quality was nowhere near RGB because of I remember correctly he started with an "SVHS" cable (s-video) to pin out to component
Copyright 1987
User avatar
Hoagtech
Posts: 939
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:53 am
Location: Bellingham, WA

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Hoagtech »

I read the faqs and there is no up scaling going on. It is simply an inline rgb transcoder going to the component cables from a power source coming from the connector pins. I like how clean the design is but I'm jealous some dude is getting 50 grand to produce something that has been done since the 90's by all of us.

She asked how this is different from a YUV transcoder his first response was "you don't have to buy two separate things [transcoder, scart cable], and you don't have to use another power source." Cool but doesn't benefit me any as I already have the same picture.

Kick starters are weird and kinda evil {jealous}
Copyright 1987
User avatar
FinalBaton
Posts: 4461
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:38 pm
Location: Québec City

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by FinalBaton »

it would be interesting to know if these perform better than a RGB SCART cable > CSY-2100 combo. Fudoh stated that the CSY-2100 is not a perfect transcoder and that some of the Kramer ones perform a good deal better, wich means there is room for improvement over the Scart cable/CSY-2100 combo.
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
User avatar
Guspaz
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:37 pm
Location: Montréal, Canada

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Guspaz »

I'll be getting a set of their cables, for SNES and Genesis. Don't even have a Genesis, but such a cable is a very handy thing to have.

RGB to YPbPr transcoder boxes are not ideal: they take up space, they have yet another power brick, they multiply the number of cables by three, they require tweaking the pots to get right, and they're of varying quality. If I can just get one simple cable that you can plug into the SNES that makes it seem like the SNES has native component video output, and probably costs a lot less than the transcoder box approach, then why wouldn't I do that?

In terms of the utility of component... Well, my PVM takes RGB, but nothing else does. I've got my systems all plugged into my PVM and then looped through to my projector, which is relatively low lag at 33ms. Mostly I want to play on the PVM, but sometimes I want to be on the big screen, particularly if I'm playing with somebody else and want to sit on the couch.

Problem is, the projector doesn't do RGBS, and while a sync converter and a whole ton of cables might let me get SNES RGB into the VGA input on the projector, it seems unlikely that the projector would take 240p via VGA.

So, the PVM supports YPbPr, why not just use that for the SNES, and then I can just loop through to the projector's component video inputs?

If the transcoder in the cables are good (and they've been testing and tweaking for ages, so I'd imagine they've gone with pretty good ones), then the image quality might be indistinguishable from RGBS.
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Ed Oscuro »

If you pick up the cables, let us know how the color accuracy is. That was the major concern I read about back when these were first announced.

Well, besides the advertising.
BONKERS
Posts: 417
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:41 am

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by BONKERS »

Guspaz wrote:I'll be getting a set of their cables, for SNES and Genesis. Don't even have a Genesis, but such a cable is a very handy thing to have.

RGB to YPbPr transcoder boxes are not ideal: they take up space, they have yet another power brick, they multiply the number of cables by three, they require tweaking the pots to get right, and they're of varying quality. If I can just get one simple cable that you can plug into the SNES that makes it seem like the SNES has native component video output, and probably costs a lot less than the transcoder box approach, then why wouldn't I do that?

In terms of the utility of component... Well, my PVM takes RGB, but nothing else does. I've got my systems all plugged into my PVM and then looped through to my projector, which is relatively low lag at 33ms. Mostly I want to play on the PVM, but sometimes I want to be on the big screen, particularly if I'm playing with somebody else and want to sit on the couch.

Problem is, the projector doesn't do RGBS, and while a sync converter and a whole ton of cables might let me get SNES RGB into the VGA input on the projector, it seems unlikely that the projector would take 240p via VGA.

So, the PVM supports YPbPr, why not just use that for the SNES, and then I can just loop through to the projector's component video inputs?

If the transcoder in the cables are good (and they've been testing and tweaking for ages, so I'd imagine they've gone with pretty good ones), then the image quality might be indistinguishable from RGBS.
You only need pot tweaking if you buy a clone ;)
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6181
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Necro bump.

How do these HD Retrovision component cables compare to a SCART to component converter?
It seems pretty nutty that they can convert the signal in a cord.
User avatar
Guspaz
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:37 pm
Location: Montréal, Canada

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by Guspaz »

They won't suffer from the purple flash issue that many such converters do.
User avatar
JBC
Posts: 3818
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:14 am

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by JBC »

JBC wrote:I'll definitely be picking these up as I just use a CRT for all my older consoles. I can't believe it's taken this long for something like this to happen.
I did get them. I eventually put every console I have on HDRetrovision cables. Great quality
Godzilla was an inside job
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6181
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by evil_ash_xero »

I actually got one of the HD Retrovision Genesis cables in the other day, as I was going to use it with my PC Engine (using a Grafx boost). I was skeptical that it would have any better of a picture
than the setup I have. I'm using Retro Access cables, with a high quality converter (forget the name). I'm using HD Retrovision component cables with that.

I just hooked it up... and wow. The color is so much brighter, and the picture is much more colorful. I'll have to readjust my TV settings.

I see that they have adapters for this cable for the Dreamcast, as well as other consoles. Are they as good with those, as they are with this? I'm impressed.

Does the Super Nintendo one work with a NESRGB modded NES? It has a SNES input.
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by TooBeaucoup »

evil_ash_xero wrote:I actually got one of the HD Retrovision Genesis cables in the other day, as I was going to use it with my PC Engine (using a Grafx boost). I was skeptical that it would have any better of a picture
than the setup I have. I'm using Retro Access cables, with a high quality converter (forget the name). I'm using HD Retrovision component cables with that.

I just hooked it up... and wow. The color is so much brighter, and the picture is much more colorful. I'll have to readjust my TV settings.

I see that they have adapters for this cable for the Dreamcast, as well as other consoles. Are they as good with those, as they are with this? I'm impressed.

Does the Super Nintendo one work with a NESRGB modded NES? It has a SNES input.
I don't know why the Retrovision would look better. Retro-Access makes very good cables, and Scart RGB and component are more or less an identical signal. I wonder if you are using the brightness switch set to the bright setting on the Retrovision cable? You might actually be using too high of a brightness. The Retro-Access cables shouldn't have looked dim or dull in color.

The Retrovision adapters all work great. Although, they don't currently have anything for the Dreamcast. Their Dreamcast component cable has been stuck in production hell for the last few years.
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6181
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by evil_ash_xero »

TooBeaucoup wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:I actually got one of the HD Retrovision Genesis cables in the other day, as I was going to use it with my PC Engine (using a Grafx boost). I was skeptical that it would have any better of a picture
than the setup I have. I'm using Retro Access cables, with a high quality converter (forget the name). I'm using HD Retrovision component cables with that.

I just hooked it up... and wow. The color is so much brighter, and the picture is much more colorful. I'll have to readjust my TV settings.

I see that they have adapters for this cable for the Dreamcast, as well as other consoles. Are they as good with those, as they are with this? I'm impressed.

Does the Super Nintendo one work with a NESRGB modded NES? It has a SNES input.
I don't know why the Retrovision would look better. Retro-Access makes very good cables, and Scart RGB and component are more or less an identical signal. I wonder if you are using the brightness switch set to the bright setting on the Retrovision cable? You might actually be using too high of a brightness. The Retro-Access cables shouldn't have looked dim or dull in color.

The Retrovision adapters all work great. Although, they don't currently have anything for the Dreamcast. Their Dreamcast component cable has been stuck in production hell for the last few years.
The Retro Access looked good, but the colors weren't as strong as they are here. And yes, I do have the brightness turned up. Is there a reason for that switch to be there?
Also, I'm not in the mind that anything was wrong with the RA cables. It was probably the conversion process that took some of the kick out of the image.

Where can I get the adapters? I don't see them at Castelmania.
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by TooBeaucoup »

evil_ash_xero wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:I actually got one of the HD Retrovision Genesis cables in the other day, as I was going to use it with my PC Engine (using a Grafx boost). I was skeptical that it would have any better of a picture
than the setup I have. I'm using Retro Access cables, with a high quality converter (forget the name). I'm using HD Retrovision component cables with that.

I just hooked it up... and wow. The color is so much brighter, and the picture is much more colorful. I'll have to readjust my TV settings.

I see that they have adapters for this cable for the Dreamcast, as well as other consoles. Are they as good with those, as they are with this? I'm impressed.

Does the Super Nintendo one work with a NESRGB modded NES? It has a SNES input.
I don't know why the Retrovision would look better. Retro-Access makes very good cables, and Scart RGB and component are more or less an identical signal. I wonder if you are using the brightness switch set to the bright setting on the Retrovision cable? You might actually be using too high of a brightness. The Retro-Access cables shouldn't have looked dim or dull in color.

The Retrovision adapters all work great. Although, they don't currently have anything for the Dreamcast. Their Dreamcast component cable has been stuck in production hell for the last few years.
The Retro Access looked good, but the colors weren't as strong as they are here. And yes, I do have the brightness turned up. Is there a reason for that switch to be there?
Also, I'm not in the mind that anything was wrong with the RA cables. It was probably the conversion process that took some of the kick out of the image.

Where can I get the adapters? I don't see them at Castelmania.
Castlemania carries them, but they're currently out of stock until TBA. There are also authorized international dealers that ship globally who look to be currently stocked. Obviously, that'll cost a bit more in shipping, depending on your location.

https://www.hdretrovision.com/purchase

The brightness switch is used depending on the console. Some output darker or bright than they should.
What are the recommended settings for the contrast switches on the Sega Genesis and SNES YPbPr cables?

For the Genesis cable, we recommend the contrast switch be set to the brighter setting on older Sega Master Systems, and with the PlayStation and Saturn adapters. For the Neo Geo adapter, pick which setting works best. For everything else, we recommend the darker setting.

For the SNES cable, we recommend the darker setting with later revisions of the SNES. For older revisions of the SNES, an (HD Retrovision approved) modded N64, and an (HD Retrovision approved) modded SNES mini, we recommend the brighter setting.
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6181
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Thanks for the link. I was able to get a PSX and a Saturn adapter from Canada. Reasonable shipping too.

You know, our avatars are giving off the same vibe. :lol:
User avatar
JBC
Posts: 3818
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:14 am

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by JBC »

The SNES cable does work on rgb modded NESs
Godzilla was an inside job
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6181
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Question About HD Retrovision's Gen/SNES Component Cable

Post by evil_ash_xero »

JBC wrote:The SNES cable does work on rgb modded NESs
Would you say it is equal to using CSY (not a clone) transcoders? It would save me some space.
OR would using the RGB2COMP give an even better picture?
Using the HDRetrovision cable on my Genesis, I did have to turn the colors down on my CRT. Which isn't bad, because I thought I had to crank them up too much before.
Seems odd that there's a color difference between it and the CSY. But they are different transcoders.

A number of options here...
Post Reply