Early-mid 2000's Sony Trinitron Wega SDTV Flat Tubes...

[Josh128]

Looking into snagging a 32" Wega model off of Craigslist. Its SD, has the flat tube, and component inputs. Never owned a Trinitron, and the Wegas are supposed to be top of the line. Only question is, Ive heard some complaints about the flat screen tubes.

Im still waiting for the seller to give me a model number, but I think this model has the "Scan Velocity Modulation", which is supposed to help convergence around the edges and corners. Heard mixed things about it.

Whats the scoop on these models, are they decent? I figure it should be at least on par with my 32" late 90's Sanyo, curved tube, which actually has pretty good blacks and uniformity but only SVideo.

These are getting harder and harder to get, this unit looks very good cosmetically (from photos anyway), what do you guys think? They are asking $70US for it.

[mvsfan]

these are awesome tvs. I have a kv-32fs120. it displays everything great through component.

ive also heard things about flat screens but i dont see anything wrong with it at all. I prefer the flat screen.

its the best 240p display i have besides my 14" pvm.

the pvm is only 500 lines, and the two are very close quality wise.

Btw, i wouldnt pay more than $50 for one. Some people are even giving them away.

Also see if you can plug it in and test it first before wasting your money. a lot of these have developed large purple spots on the screen from being dropped, i think. Bring a game console with your money and test it.

[Ed Oscuro]

Sounds like a good enough price to me. I have a 27" version of the fs120 and paid about that a couple years back. Mine does have some geometry issues but I haven't yet sorted it all out. I agree that the flat screen is nice to have, though I was more interested in the really recent manufacture and component inputs.

One thing worth noting: These screens all seem to have the "red push" setting. There's usually a simple way to disable it on sets. The red push can make reds bleed.

[Josh128]

these are awesome tvs. I have a kv-32fs120. it displays everything great through component.

ive also heard things about flat screens but i dont see anything wrong with it at all. I prefer the flat screen.

its the best 240p display i have besides my 14" pvm.

the pvm is only 500 lines, and the two are very close quality wise.

Btw, i wouldnt pay more than $50 for one. Some people are even giving them away.

Also see if you can plug it in and test it first before wasting your money. a lot of these have developed large purple spots on the screen from being dropped, i think. Bring a game console with your money and test it.

I just googled the kv-32fs120 you speak of and the images look identical to the one Im looking at. Comes from some older folks' home and is supposedly in pristine condition. I guess in order to test it I'll have to bring something, seeing it doesnt have an HD tuner. If its not in pristine condition I may try to haggle a bit, I'll inquire more when I speak to them over the phone, we've only communicated via email so far.

Hopefully the screen is clear of anomalies-- its so heavy that if you drop it, you'll probably have worse problems than purple spots!

Thanks for the feedback....

[Josh128]

So, it turns out the set was a 27"(actually a pleasant surprise, the 32" would have meant calling in reinforcements to unload it)-- a KD-27FS170, manufactured in Sept. 2006, which officially makes it the newest model CRT TV Ive ever put my grubby hands on. I got the guy to agree to $50 over the phone, sight unseen! Turns out it was quite cherry, very good cosmetic condition.

Another pleasant surprise was that it has an ATSC tuner-- the TV I planned to replace with it didnt, so I was able to get rid of a digital converter box straight away.

I got as far as tuning to some HD channels and the picture is quite nice. I connected a DVD/VCR combo to it via component and it worked, no surprises.

Its in my daughters room, I wasnt able to test any SD game systems on it, but I have an unused PSX and Saturn and I plan to put it to the test soon.

[Xyga]

Never owned a Trinitron, and the Wegas are supposed to be top of the line. Only question is, Ive heard some complaints about the flat screen tubes.

The Wega are excellent except when the geometry is bad (which is very common) you may be able to do something about it in the service menu... or not.
I mean if you cannot fix what's wrong the easy way you'll have to do it the hard: manipulating the deflection yoke and convergence rings, add magnets (how do they work?) and trust me, when it comes to flat tubes like those big Wega's, it is beyond the average Joe's ability.

One of the most difficult parts is getting the horizontal straight, otherwise there's a very common wave / 'inverted fisheye' effect that will screw up every moving scrolling scene.

Flat tubes make everything much more complicated, personally I gave up hope on getting mine to look even okay, as its geometry got worse with time and the service menu settings won't help.
I'll get a curved Trinitron in place or basta with big crt's.

[Josh128]

Yeah I didnt get to game much on it at all, save for composite out SNES SMW for about 2 minutes, and it looked great for composite, but it seems image may be ever so slightly rotated (1 or so degrees). There is also a slight "pincushion" on the lower left edge of the screen, visible only when you can see the edge of the image/underscan-- do you know off hand if theres anything in the service menu to work with that?

I'll post some real images later on, once I really get a chance to test it..

I read the Yoke can be rotated slightly to resolve the issue. Its hardly noticable, but I did download a service manual and once I thoroughly test it, I may see what I can do.

[Fudoh]

Rotation is definitely adjustable in the SM and you should be able to work on that pincushion effect as well. Just make sure to take photos of all original settings. The SM on the consumer Sonys is still pretty cryptic.

[Xan]

Nice find. I have a 14" FD Trinitron myself which gets little use because of my PVMs, but I never noticed any geometry issues at all on there. It might be more of an issue with these larger tubes though.

[Xyga]

Rotation is definitely adjustable in the SM and you should be able to work on that pincushion effect as well. Just make sure to take photos of all original settings. The SM on the consumer Sonys is still pretty cryptic.

Funny thing on mine rotation and horizontal position adjustments are done in the normal menu, then everything else in service menu (where h_pos doesn't save anyway).

The service menu itself isn't too complicated (talking about FE-2 chassis) at least the most important settings are easy to identify, but what I've noticed is that some more advanced features can be found in the 'test' menu (test 1 & test 2) which seems to feature a 'factory default' option by the way.
A 'test button' is mentioned in the manual, I suppose it's located somewhere on the chassis...

Anyway today for the Nth time I've spent a few hours reworking geometry and colors on my KV-29LS35B, and it's beautiful, but definitely not perfect, some of the image distortions definitely can't be fixed using only the service menu.

[chempop]

One of the most difficult parts is getting the horizontal straight, otherwise there's a very common wave / 'inverted fisheye' effect that will screw up every moving scrolling scene.

This is exactly what started happening to my 27” flat trinitron, it drove me absolutely nuts! I thought it was because I had a speaker near the TV, but after researching a bit I kept hearing it was a common issue.
I also have a 24” which i currently use although there is a white line on the top of the screen which I move out of view with VPOS in service menu. One nice thing is that the 24” has component and a very sharp picture, but man, the geometry on these flat trinitrons is a nightmare.

[Xyga]

I use Artemio's 240p Test Suite scrolling tests to fight the fish-eye effect.

Looking at a static grid won't show the issue anyway, but with the aformetioned you can start-stop the scrolling at will, and with your fingers on the Sony's pin cushion settings it's easy to see where it becomes comfortable for your eyes.

In my case I had to accept that what looks perfectly straight while static might not be - at all - when moving.
Leaving some parts distorted sometimes is better than insisting on getting them perfectly straight.

Also yeah, absolutely use a large ruler or try square, because your eyes and the grid will deceive you.

[Josh128]

Rotation is definitely adjustable in the SM and you should be able to work on that pincushion effect as well. Just make sure to take photos of all original settings. The SM on the consumer Sonys is still pretty cryptic.

Funny thing on mine rotation and horizontal position adjustments are done in the normal menu, then everything else in service menu (where h_pos doesn't save anyway).

The service menu itself isn't too complicated (talking about FE-2 chassis) at least the most important settings are easy to identify, but what I've noticed is that some more advanced features can be found in the 'test' menu (test 1 & test 2) which seems to feature a 'factory default' option by the way.
A 'test button' is mentioned in the manual, I suppose it's located somewhere on the chassis...

Anyway today for the Nth time I've spent a few hours reworking geometry and colors on my KV-29LS35B, and it's beautiful, but definitely not perfect, some of the image distortions definitely can't be fixed using only the service menu.

I havent dived into the service menu yet, but unfortunately it seems there is no screen rotation function anywhere for the 27" model, from what Ive read (I think because it lacks a rotation coil), while there is one on the 32" and 36" models. Bit of a bummer, but there are a variety of other geometry tweaks in the menu that I may be able to work. Its really only off perfect horizontal by a maybe a line or a line and a half if you trace from one side of the screen to the other, so its not really noticable unless you have a straight line at the top or bottom of the screen. If it bugs me enough I may research how to rotate the yoke, or better yet, have the local TV shop do a complete tune up on it (probably would cost $100 or so, but I'd have them tune focus, convergence etc, etc while they are in it).

I will say that Ive played a decent bit of SMW (tried SVideo, looks very good), and there is no sign of the fish eye scrolling distortion (looking at the backgrounds) a lot of people seem to have issues with.

If the fish eye effect does crop up, what may I ask do you do to fix it?

[Xyga]

If the fish eye effect does crop up, what may I ask do you do to fix it?

Well just what I explained a bit earlier; I display something scrolling east->west then south->north and adjust the geometry (cushion, angle, bow, phase and corners) while watching it.

But for me who's got one with some severe deformations, the service menu geometry setting are not enough to completely fix it, only manipulating the yoke and rings would possibly give better results.
Hopefully you will never have to go that far.

[Josh128]

OK. I had some time to test the set, corrected as much of the uniformity issues as I could through the service menu, and I have to say, the set produces a pretty nice, crisp picture. All pictures are from my old SNES 1 via S-Video. I didnt have the energy to begin unhooking all my RGB rig from my plasma to try on the little set, but maybe later.

Though theres still some minor convergence issues near the corners and couple other things, its quite a bit better than when I first tried it. I think to get it any better would require physically adjusting the tube, which Im not really prepared to do, I think its good enough as is. Im probably a bit spoiled by the excellent uniformity on my plasmas, its been a while since I studied an SD CRT this closely. One thing that impressed me quite a bit was the blacks-- they are pretty incredible. I tried to get some closeups to show the RGB pixel structure, etc. Again, hate to sound like a broken record, but it looks even better in person!

For full 3MP shots, follow this link. >> http://imgur.com/a/AWN2L

[BazookaBen]

Damn dude, if you told me that was a PVM I would totally believe you.

[Xyga]

It's the camera that makes it look curved, right ?

Otherwise yours seems to have much better geometry than mine. Good find !

[Josh128]

It's the camera that makes it look curved, right ?

Otherwise yours seems to have much better geometry than mine. Good find !

Yes, apparently the camera makes the entire set look curved, but its perfectly flat, the model is KD-27FS170. Its quite an odd effect.

I plan to up some RGB shots soon for a direct comparison to SVideo and to see just what the set is truly capable of

[mvsfan]

Looks nice.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, apparently the camera makes the entire set look curved

Pretty common occurrence when trying to focus in close, or when using the ends of a cheap zoom's focal length range. Random guess is that this is both focused close and at the widest FL. Take a few steps back and it should be reduced or even eliminated.

These will do component just as well as RGB for all practical purposes - my observation when playing Little Rarfu via a PS2 slim.

You've got me wondering if this new series has any specific improvements for more stable geometry or picture. Wouldn't that be grand - they finally figured out flat screens and barely got it working for the final series of sets.

[Josh128]

OK so I had some time today to try RGB out on the 27" FD Trinitron Wega. I tried both the SNES 1 and the SNES mini, using my CSY 2100 clone. To my surprise, the SNES 1 looked pretty good, nice colors, not nearly as bad as it looked the last time I tried it on an SDTV. The whites still bled to the right a little, but it wasnt as noticable as it was on my plasma, and not nearly as bad as the 36" SD JVC I first tried it on. That said, there was still some white bleed, most visible on the text in the Prince of Persia game start screen, which doesnt show up when hooked via S-Video. I'll post the comparison photos later.

Now, for the main course, I tried the SNES Mini...and my jaw almost hit the floor. It looked STUNNING!!! There was no comparison between the SNES 1 SVideo or RGB and the SNES Mini. It was RAZOR sharp, with colors that just jump out at you. I'll go out on a limb and say its the most beautiful 240p Ive ever seen. I mean, I love the 240p processing and color reproduction on my F4500, but those scanlines ...

I experimented taking photos with the lights on and off, SNES 1 and SNES Mini, with 2 different light output settings on the Sony. Apparently there was some glare from another room I didnt notice at the time, which is visible. Some of the photos also overexposed a bit, causing a bit of a washed out look. It was not washed out in person, it was just gushing with vibrant color. The below photos are some of the best ones from the SNES Mini-- but I'll say here and now it looked FAR more impressive in person. It rivaled even the best arcade CRTs Ive ever played on, and easily the sharpest non HD or VGA SNES Ive ever seen in person.

So, after witnessing what I did tonight, I'd like to recant my statements concerning S-Video vs. RGBs. I'd say on a scale of 1-10, if Composite was a 4, S-Video would be a 7, and RGBs would be a rock solid 10. Now, Im basing this on a SNES Mini RGBs vs. a SNES 1 S-Video, but I think it wouldnt change much if I had tried the Mini S-Video. To be honest, Im not sure if I enabled S-Video on the Mini when I modded it. In any case, enjoy!

For full 3MP pictures, see the following link: http://imgur.com/a/0FxFF Right click on a photo, then hit "View Image", then left click the magnifying glass for the full size.

[Josh128]

Well, as some of you know from my previous posts, I claimed that my original SNES's SVideo output was superior to its RGB output. I experienced this the first time I compared the two (RGB transcoded to component) on my old 36" JVC SDCRT. The whites seemed to bleed badly in RGB, and seemed fine in SVideo-- RGB also seemed overall a bit blurrier. The issues also were the same on my plasma display. This led me to purchase and mod a SNES mini, which looks fabulous in RGB.

So anyways, the other day when I was taking photos of my new Trinitron Wega, I compared the two systems to each other. I was able to compare SNES 1 SVideo and RGB to SNES 2 RGB (I didnt mod the mini for Svideo).

The results are quite interesting. Though the SNES 1 RGB looks better on the Wega than it did on the JVC and the plasma, the white bleed and general blur is still visible to the discerning eye-- even vs. Svideo.

Below are some comparison shots, labeled with the system type and video connection. Note the white bleed on the SNES 1 RGB vs the lack of bleed on the S-Video image. Strange isnt it?

Full res album at following link: http://imgur.com/a/ROeeK

[mvsfan]

which snes 1 revision are you using?

[Josh128]

which snes 1 revision are you using?

It must be one of, if not THE, first North American NTSC revisions, because my mom bought it for me around October of 1991, about two months after the initial North American release. I got Actraiser for Christmas and remember almost passing out after seeing and hearing it for the first time!!

The S/N on the bottom of mine is UN10193490. Not sure if that helps, but there it is.

[mvsfan]

thats not really a good comparison to compare that one against the mini snes.

the 1-chip model 1 snes's look almost or as good as the mini.

the regular snes's are blurry in comparison.

[Josh128]

thats not really a good comparison to compare that one against the mini snes.

the 1-chip model 1 snes's look almost or as good as the mini.

the regular snes's are blurry in comparison.

The point was that the original SNES is quite blurry in RGB compared to its own SVideo-- a discussion that started in the Samsung F4500 thread. Apparently its a little known fact that SVideo is actually sharper than RGB in this original model.

As far as comparing the two hardware revisions in RGB-- well, its all I have and in the interest of furthering the knowledge base of the difference between the two.

[Josh128]

So I did a few Component vs. SVideo vs. Composite shots from the $3 Silver GC. All cables were connected to different inputs on the set simultaneously-- not sure if this affected the signal level of the SVideo and composite-- if they are connected somehow internally perhaps it does-- this might explain the darker look of the composite. I also darkened the light output of the TV in attemps to get a more focused photo. It didnt help that much.

Disclaimer: These shots look like ass. Try as I might, I couldnt get a good looking photo of the 480i-- I guess the camera has problems focusing on the shifting image-- I almost didnt post them, but they still do show a discernable difference, so I figured what the hell...

Very interesting is that the image using component is shifted vs. the Svideo and composite-- the camera didnt move at all and was on a tripod-- but you can see the image on all the component shots is shifted slightly to the right vs. the others.

Also, looking at the photos it appears that SVideo looks sharper-- this is not the case-- in person it appeared equal to component in sharpness, with the colors of component looking quite a bit richer and "smoother". Component is def best, but its hard to tell from these photos.

Last but not least-- 480i component and Svideo looks incredible on the Sony-- almost approaching 480p quality-- but sadly, these shots come nowhere near conveying that.

Enjoy!

Full album including Zelda, Sonic, Ikaruga, and FZero at : http://imgur.com/a/A4fKO

[Josh128]

I got my second CSY-2100 clone and RGB cable for my Genesis Model 2. Looks pretty nice on the Sony, heres a few shots. I really wanted to compare the RGB output to the composite output on the Genny, to show how striking a difference it is, but unfortunately I seem to have misplaced my composite cable, so I couldnt compare them.

One thing I was astounded with was how close my F4500 plasma looks with perfect scanline emulation to the Sony with real RGB Genesis. I took some very similar shots of the two and will post them in the F4500 thread shortly. At the bottom I also included a few more shots of the SNES 2 RGB on this set.

Full 3MP shots at link below:
http://imgur.com/a/LCF9F


















http://imgur.com/a/5EQvz

[tacoguy64]

I gotta say that the picture from these tubes are pretty nice. And in my opinion they wouldn't be a bad option for the people that are trying to get into rgb gaming considering how readily available they are on craigslist and for how cheap they can go for.

[broken harbour]

The first TV I ever bought back in 2000 was a 32" Wega, used it until 2010 when I bought an HD Plasma. I still have it in storage for when I get a house so I can use all my pre-HD consoles on it.

Was always impressed by the picture, but its weight and bulked sucked.