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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:14 pm 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 650
Location: Escondido, CA, USA
Jon Nielsen wrote:
NoAffinity wrote:
If you do the math, a 470R resistor actually gets you as close to 2vp-p as you can get with a standard rating resistor. Somebody check my math or educate me on why a 430R resistor @ >2vp-p would be better than a 470R at 2.0012vp-p (or at least something much closer to almost exactly 2.00000). :)

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


It would certainly make it easier to test for me. I have plenty of 470R resistors. What calculation are you using ?

Cheers

Jon
The calculation on post 1, where Riref = the result of the existing 150r in parallel with x resistor. x = 430r per post 1, and by my calculation 470r is a more precise solution.

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:34 pm 


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Quick update on trying that passive sync combiner circuit that is detailed on retrorgb. It doesn't work well with the GBS. Testing with Dreamcast->VGA in on the GBS. 1920x1080 is at least viewable, but has a significant and constant tear/distortion line at about 2/3 of the image height. Certainly not playable. All other resolutions are scrambled, jumpy, over-saturated with green. I didn't even bother trying to downscale. If it's not an all-in-one solution, it doesn't work for me.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:41 pm 



Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 37
Welcome. I have an idea, but I wonder if anyone has already tried to implement it. I wonder if it would not be worith trying to get GBS schematics? In the sense of what I have seen, gonbes has not been interested in this scaler for a long time, and since GBS-C AIO is already being created, if you had the schematic, it would be possible to implement all the modifications directly on the PCB, and maybe even redesign it in such a way as to obtain even more better image quality than even with AIO.

although of course this is just my loose proposition. Maybe it's worth a try ...


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:35 pm 



Joined: 03 Jun 2020
Posts: 18
Since the bulk of my systems go into my gscartsw I've been trying to find the right SCART to Input to my modified GBS8200.

https://i.imgur.com/KgxZCDf.jpg

Originally I tried the SCART2DVI solution: https://insurrectionindustries.com/product/scart2dvi/ (is 404 atm)

https://www.retrorgb.com/scartcleaner.html

This works great and is truly a plug and play solution into the GBS8200 but I'm just not a huge fan of all the cables. I also notice that the D1 Mini board stays lit blue when a signal is passed to it.

The other device I picked up from ebay: https://tinyurl.com/y2pqdrgr

It "works" but with some major caveats. If I plug in the GBS cold I have to go into the interface and select "720x480 / 768x576" twice (I take it to bump it to 480p) Also, whenever the signal is being passed through the D1 Mini board may blink the blue LED but it never stays static.

I've also noticed diagonal waves on the picture strictly from the Electronica4u ebay converter. I've tried removing the 100ohm resistor and this made no difference.

Would be great if another run of these were done: https://www.retrorgb.com/tinkerplunk-has-made-a-scart-to-vga-pcb.html but it looks like he's wrapped up in the AIO project atm.

Just thought I would share my findings so far.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:25 pm 


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Joined: 30 Jul 2020
Posts: 14
I've been posting about the GamesCare gbs control package and I feel like I have to come here to clarify things, for those who considered buying one from them in Brazil.

I've been talking with Fabio from GamesCare and I apparently missed the fact that I was supposed to ask for the clockgen mod as it is done on demand (per-request). So my fault entirely for having a clockgen-less unit, in fact he just charged me the cost of the parts when I shipped my GBS back to him for the clockgen. Great user support! So yeah if anyone had any doubts about it you can now order it (but you gotta make sure you ask him for the clockgen mod to avoid shipping the unit back and forth unecessarily).

Now I got rid of tearing entirely... well not exactly 100% entirely because one of the games I'm playing heavily behind the GBS, Silent Hill, actually does tear even on composite output, so I have to live with that lol. Otherwise I had no issues with tearing at all anymore. If anyone built their own units I'd highly recommend installing a clockgen anyway even if you don't think you'll need it to avoid some headaches.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:19 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 227
Tested another Neogeo AES, and it also didn't work properly, diagonal fast rolling image at worst, unstable image with big upper skew at best.
So far I'm at
AES 3-4
AES 3-5 x2
AES 3-6
MVS MV1-FZ

with the same symptoms.
Because an MVS is also affected, I don't think it's because of slight frequency differences.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:00 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 367
Any idea why I’m getting this slow rolling horizontal line? Disappears for a few minutes before returning: https://youtu.be/rR2yio9rcHg

Also, check out how well GBSC handles PAL DVD’s (on a PAL PS2) https://imgur.com/a/1a7tGXo


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:06 pm 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 650
Location: Escondido, CA, USA
strayan wrote:
Any idea why I’m getting this slow rolling horizontal line? Disappears for a few minutes before returning: https://youtu.be/rR2yio9rcHg

Also, check out how well GBSC handles PAL DVD’s (on a PAL PS2) https://imgur.com/a/1a7tGXo
The horizontal line is screen tearing. Do you have the clock gen mod?

I have also seen it when using vga->hdmi converters (with clock gen installed).

DVD looks great!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:26 pm 


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Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 592
I have actually had that tearing a couple times since I installed the clock gen mod.. Never had it before. Not sure if I'm on the latest fw though.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:43 pm 



Joined: 17 Jun 2020
Posts: 5
Hey guys, I finally got to work on my GBS and I am really close on having it working perfectly.

My main goal was to connect my computer to my consumer CRT (240p, 15khz), downscaling the signal.

Here's a short video of what's going on: https://streamable.com/ch9ki3

As you can see, when I click on 15khz downscale preset, it shows the image perfectly of my extended desktop for a split second, before getting messed up again.

I was afraid my soldering job was garbage and something else could be messed up, but seeing it working correctly, even if for just a little bit, must be a sign that it's just a small thing that is holding it back.

The signal is coming from my rtx3080, where I created a custom resolution. I tried many types, 480p, 480i, 240p etc, they all ended up with the same shenanigans.

When reading the text lines, I noticed the following message: "sync skipped sfr wrong: 0.00"

I looked it up in this thread, and even Rama talked about it being a problem with the debug pin, but it looks more than fine after I checked the board.

Let me know if there's anything I can try, it feels like it's so close on being ready to enjoy, I can almost taste it. Thank you very much for the help.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:24 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 367
Kez wrote:
I have actually had that tearing a couple times since I installed the clock gen mod.. Never had it before.


NoAffinity wrote:
Do you have the clock gen mod?


Yep, clock gen installed.

Was tinkering last night and seems like it goes away if I disable the Line Filter.

On a side note I’d really like to see a ‘Weave’ option added to the de-interlace options so we have the choice between ‘Motion adaptive(bob+weave)/Bob/Weave


Last edited by strayan on Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:48 am 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 650
Location: Escondido, CA, USA
Fluor wrote:
Hey guys, I finally got to work on my GBS and I am really close on having it working perfectly.

My main goal was to connect my computer to my consumer CRT (240p, 15khz), downscaling the signal.

Here's a short video of what's going on: https://streamable.com/ch9ki3

As you can see, when I click on 15khz downscale preset, it shows the image perfectly of my extended desktop for a split second, before getting messed up again.

I was afraid my soldering job was garbage and something else could be messed up, but seeing it working correctly, even if for just a little bit, must be a sign that it's just a small thing that is holding it back.

The signal is coming from my rtx3080, where I created a custom resolution. I tried many types, 480p, 480i, 240p etc, they all ended up with the same shenanigans.

When reading the text lines, I noticed the following message: "sync skipped sfr wrong: 0.00"

I looked it up in this thread, and even Rama talked about it being a problem with the debug pin, but it looks more than fine after I checked the board.

Let me know if there's anything I can try, it feels like it's so close on being ready to enjoy, I can almost taste it. Thank you very much for the help.
How are you connecting to the gbs? Downscaling the vga input does not work reliably. If this is your setup, a vga to rgbs or vga to component converter is your best bet for input to the gbs.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:35 am 



Joined: 17 Jun 2020
Posts: 5
NoAffinity wrote:
How are you connecting to the gbs? Downscaling the vga input does not work reliably. If this is your setup, a vga to rgbs or vga to component converter is your best bet for input to the gbs.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


HDMI from my RTX3080, to this HDMI to VGA: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07BN8 ... UTF8&psc=1

VGA to the VGA input in the GBS

GBS VGA out to this VGA to component converter: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00213 ... UTF8&psc=1

Then a male to male HD Retrovision set of cables into my CRT component input.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:51 pm 


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Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 495
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Fluor wrote:
NoAffinity wrote:
How are you connecting to the gbs? Downscaling the vga input does not work reliably. If this is your setup, a vga to rgbs or vga to component converter is your best bet for input to the gbs.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


HDMI from my RTX3080, to this HDMI to VGA: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07BN8 ... UTF8&psc=1

VGA to the VGA input in the GBS

GBS VGA out to this VGA to component converter: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00213 ... UTF8&psc=1

Then a male to male HD Retrovision set of cables into my CRT component input.


Are you going into the advanced settings and switching it manually to YPbPr output?
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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:38 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 367
Fluor wrote:
HDMI from my RTX3080, to this HDMI to VGA: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07BN8 ... UTF8&psc=1


This is almost certainly the source of your woes. Try a HDMI to Component device like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZ73Y13/


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:17 pm 


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Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 495
Location: Massachusetts, USA
strayan wrote:
Fluor wrote:
HDMI from my RTX3080, to this HDMI to VGA: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07BN8 ... UTF8&psc=1


This is almost certainly the source of your woes. Try a HDMI to Component device like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZ73Y13/


I would say avoid that model... unless you’ve personally tested it! The black metal box units with the slightly rounded tops seem to be the best of the cheap HDMI>YPbPr units :)

Also yeah, HDMI to VGAs with external PSUs tend to be more reliable, such as the Portta one. If you have an Extron RGB interface, it’s more ideal to send RGBS into a GBS versus RGBHV
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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:48 pm 



Joined: 17 Jun 2020
Posts: 5
kitty666cats wrote:
Are you going into the advanced settings and switching it manually to YPbPr output?


Yes, at first I wasn't, but even that video that I mad already had this activated.

I ordered that rounded on top HDMI to YPbPr adapter and another HDMI to Composite to test. I really want to find an easy way to connect PC to 240p/15khz that most people could use without having to be too tech savy.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:17 pm 



Joined: 22 Aug 2020
Posts: 1
What VGA to HDMI adapters are you guys using and recommend? The two Chinese-brand adapters I've tried (one being the Foinnex plug-style one recommended by RetroRGB Bob, the other being a box I bought from a local retailer) both produce crackling and "chirping" audio when fed to my Blackmagic capture card (one more so than the other). It's not audible in stereo, but down-mixing to mono reveals the issue. I've also tried with my Extron RGB HDMI 300A, and it doesn't do this, so there has to be something about these adapters that the capture process doesn't like. I've tried messing around with sample rates and nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:25 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Toronto, Canada
I own 2 X68000 computers which I plan on using GBS-Control with. Most games are 31khz (480p) so it just pass-through the signal to the PC monitor. Some games are 15khz (240p) and then I rely on the scalling.

The device works well with my X68000 XVI compact, but fails with the original X68000 full tower. When it pass-thru mode, the LCD screen remains off. In 15khz games, the LCD screen says "unsupported resolution". When I force it to 480p, the screen shows the game but scrolls up fast for a few seconds, and then a "reset" is triggered, and it's back to "pass through".

I can do testing/captures of logs and post it here. For example, here's a recent capture:

h: 212 v: 318 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 I:00 D:0026 m:0 ht:1023 vt: 0 hpw: 0 u: 0 s: 0 S:12 W:-51
h: 213 v: 318 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 I:00 D:0026 m:0 ht:1023 vt: 0 hpw: 0 u: 0 s: 0 S:12 W:-51
h: 212 v: 318 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 I:00 D:0026 m:0 ht:1023 vt: 0 hpw: 0 u: 0 s: 0 S:12 W:-51
h: 213 v: 318 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 I:00 D:0026 m:0 ht:1023 vt: 0 hpw: 0 u: 0 s: 0 S:12 W:-51

Not sure what all this means, but willing to work with the devs to get this fixed.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:56 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Toronto, Canada
I can confirm now on 2 different OG X68000 computers, the behaviour is identical. So it's something with the GBS not able to sync to the video levels of the computer?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:18 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 367
Are there variations on the pinouts of different X68000 models?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:31 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Toronto, Canada
strayan wrote:
Are there variations on the pinouts of different X68000 models?


No. Pinout is identical. I use the same cable between all the computers. I can feed directly the 31k image to the LCD monitor and it shows up just fine. In pass-thru mode, the monitor is blinking like there is no signal.

I want the GBS-Control mostly to upscale the 240p games as my monitor doesn't support 240p.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:04 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Toronto, Canada
Come to think of it, this reminded me that I did take oscilloscope readings a few years ago between the X68K that works and the one that for some reason doesn't work:

Original X68K: (Doesn't work with GBS-Control on VGA input plug)
- R/G/B all about 1.3-1.5Vpp
- hv sync 31k freq - 5.7Vpp

Compact Red Zone: (Does work with GBS-Control on VGA input plug)
- R/G/B all measured at about 1.6Vpp
- hv sync 31k freq - 2.64Vpp

I'm thinking the signal is too hot!


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:48 am 


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GBS is designed for 3.3V LVTTL syncs, so that checks out


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:06 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Toronto, Canada
maxtherabbit wrote:
GBS is designed for 3.3V LVTTL syncs, so that checks out


R22 and R33 setup a voltage divider for vertical sync. R22=1K, R33=10K. Assuming I'm connecting standard VGA PC to GBS, the voltage divider will result in 4.5V going to the GBS. As for horizontal sync (which seems to be tied to csync) there is no voltage divider.. just a 1K resistor at R34 to ground (1K terminated??) so the full 5V from VGA goes right into the device!?

What am I missing?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:13 am 


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You're not missing anything it's just bad design. What I should have said is the Tvia chip is designed for 3.3V syncs. I've tested it with 5V TTL sync input and it works, but if your X68k is going past 5V it doesn't surprise me that it stops working


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:40 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Toronto, Canada
Here’s more info on the sync coming out of an original X68000 computer.

vertical sync:

55hz frequency just a bit over 5Vpp

Image

horizontal sync:

31khz and 2Vpp

Image

So which of these is throwing off the GBS?
I know it can support the resolution but I think sync is off.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:09 pm 


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Are you sure it supports 55Hz vertical refresh?

I'd try dropping the v-sync amplitude down a bit if you can


Last edited by maxtherabbit on Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:03 pm 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 1440
Location: Australia
Why is the wiki install guide for the clock generator missing the 1000pF cap on CLK0 pin2?

https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-contro ... tall-notes


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:57 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Toronto, Canada
maxtherabbit wrote:
Are you sure it supports 55Hz vertical refresh?

I'd try dropping the v-sync amplitude down a bit if you can


You mean the PC monitor? sure does. Here's the final result; I replaced R34 with 10K resistor. Measuring at input pins of TVIA 5725.

VS - 55Hz, 3.9Vpp
HS - 31.6kHz, 3.4Vpp

Using stock firmware, I get solid picture on the TV. With GBS-Control, the screen is black, then comes in, stays for 5 seconds, and goes black again (all in passthru). So GBS-Control is doing something with sync that the TV doesn't like which stock firmware does not.

So at this point I'm stuck as the issue is a GBS-Control software issue and not hardware as far as I can see.


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