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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:08 pm 



Joined: 28 Jun 2019
Posts: 6
I always had problems with the WiFi signal and accessing the Web UI settings, pinging the board showed some big inconsistencies. So I decided to replace the heat sink as discussed here before, and now it's really good!

Spoiler: show
Image


The original aluminium heat sink was so damn glued on the chip that after trying and failing with all conventional techniques, I used a small flat headed screwdriver and hammered it down in between the heat sink and the chip and that finally got it removed, but it did put a lot of pressure on and bend all the pins, I'm honestly surprised all of them are still perfectly soldered.

Spoiler: show
Image


In the process of this I broke the C48 SMD resistor which seems to be connected to a VDD pin (pin 34), which I don't know if I should bother replacing.

And I didn't want to leave the chip without a heat sink so I bought a ceramic one, this one: AMEC THERMASOL FCH30305T which does the job perfectly.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:46 pm 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 468
Location: Escondido, CA, USA
rama wrote:
Right, I forgot about that option :p

To get good quality with the smaller horizontal area, it's probably best to disable the output stage horizontal scaler.
The aspect ratio can be dialed in using the output pixel clock and a matching "as high as possible" input sampling clock.

A quick test with 720p looked very promising :)
Thoughts on doing this for 1080p also? Would that help reduce the strain on resources that 1080p presents?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:42 pm 



Joined: 24 Aug 2019
Posts: 88
Hey rama are you planning to hook up everything for the special modes ? as it is now that's the only thing keeping me away from a perfect picture in pass-through mode.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:41 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
Jasper:
Well, that's quite the brute hack!

Next time you want to do this, just let the scaler run half an hour first.
It'll loosen the glue and make heatsink removal much easier :)

You should replace that SMD capacitor (100nF).

NoAffinity:
Check Github a bit later today. 720p and 1080p are done, just have to run a few tests :)
It did reduce the requirements on the output stage, which helps 1080p significantly!
720p looks decent enough, but 1080p now.. It's pretty stunning.

Iraito:
Sooner or later, yeah.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:59 pm 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 468
Location: Escondido, CA, USA
Please let me know when the new firmware is uploaded. I just dl'ed the latest and captured some video and wasn't seeing the intended results. Then I looked back and see you said "later today". :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:25 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
Letting you know atm :p


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:20 am 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 468
Location: Escondido, CA, USA
Did a couple quick tests. Looks and performs great, from my limited testing.

Sega Saturn - SCART input - 240p gameplay demo content, with 480i cut scenes and title screen: https://youtu.be/2_2B9kZ-WwA

PS2 - YPbPr input - 480p content (well, it boots in 480i, but the gameplay is all in 480p): https://youtu.be/ytd0iMuo870

Videos will both be ready about an hour from the timestamp of this post.

Sorry for the sloppy gameplay in Outrun, I'm a bit rusty.

Also, looks like youtube compression chewed up both videos a bit. It's a shame, but the major point is pillarboxing is working great.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:53 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
Yep, looking good :)

Not sure why Youtube butchered the 480p stuff so much. Maybe too much motion?

If you want to do more captures, I think putting 1080p first or leaving out 720p all altogether is best, just for filling the screen better.
Coloroful chunky pixels content looks best, such as pretty much all SNES or 2D PSX/PS2 era stuff :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:50 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 174
I hate to be that guy, but, is it possible to have the 720p/1080p 4/3 aspect ratio correction optional ? Actually only 720p is needed

With the recording I do it's simply better to correct AR (either with MP4/MKV flag or during video editing), and also I can't get the correct AR or the full horizontal with some sources, namely CPS2 and MVS respectively. I get garbage if I try to stretch too much with CPS2 trying to correct the ratio (note that I stretched verticaly also so I needed quite a large horizontal stretch).

If not I'll accomodate, but full frame 720p was the easiest to get results.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:08 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
Well, I knew someone would prefer the old ones, but here's arguments against them:

- The new aspect ratio is perfectly correct if displayed on a 16:9 canvas. Create that canvas and you'll be fine.
- Priority for gbscontrol is being a good upscaler for use on large screens / TVs. Capture cards are less important.
- The new presets are significantly different (hence the quality improvements), so having both versions means more code to support them, and more ways something can go wrong.

So I'd rather not have 2 flavors of the same output resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:06 pm 


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Location: Australia
Should still be fine for a 4:3 crt right?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:52 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
Should still be fine for a 4:3 crt right?

You're probably better off using the 480 line output preset for a PC CRT. You will get some "natural" scanlines that way too


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:06 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
640x480 looks quite bad, actually. This resolution is more directly coupled to the input, which I thought could be beneficial.
I never found the magic bits to make it happen though, so maybe I'll update it with the high-res sampling setup.

For CRTs right now, I'd rather use 1280x960/x1024.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:13 am 


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rama wrote:
640x480 looks quite bad, actually. This resolution is more directly coupled to the input, which I thought could be beneficial.
I never found the magic bits to make it happen though, so maybe I'll update it with the high-res sampling setup.

For CRTs right now, I'd rather use 1280x960/x1024.

Hm yeah I'd think 640x480 would benefit from as much oversampling as you can throw at it.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:42 am 


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Location: Escondido, CA, USA
rama wrote:
Yep, looking good :)

Not sure why Youtube butchered the 480p stuff so much. Maybe too much motion?

If you want to do more captures, I think putting 1080p first or leaving out 720p all altogether is best, just for filling the screen better.
Coloroful chunky pixels content looks best, such as pretty much all SNES or 2D PSX/PS2 era stuff :)
I record strictly at 1080p. The gbs output is unscaled on a 1080p canvas in obs. So any resolution options that youtube offers other than 1080p is downscaled by youtube re-encoding techniques and yeah...well...you get what you pay for.

Alternatively, outrun is just one of thsoe games that doesnt get encoded well...probably too much motion like you said. Theres a lot of videos of outrun footage out there that just look terrible. Was hoping my 100mbps encoding would stand up to youtube re-encoding but sadly no.

Separate subject, I like the 640x480 profile personally. Looks good on my pc crt. More pixel definition if thats the right way to explain it...more black space between pixels. Its reminiscent of the early days of pc gaming for me.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:02 am 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 3
I actually liked 1080p preset on my CRT for extra sharpness it gives, this is especially noticeable on 512x448 ps2 games for some reason. Another reason is that I get picture linearity problems on 960p preset and on it only. But now I get squished picture on 1080p :cry:

By the way that 480p preset can align precisely with 640 pixel width on PS2 if I disable filters and adjust PLL divider together with phase. Again I was never able to do so for 512px sources, I get hangs and green bars at some point, so I guess that preset is tied to that horizontal resolution or something.

I checked commits and it seems you've also added some patches for these presets in the code, so I guess just swapping header files from old version won't help here? Another question, did that old 1080p preset used 2560px active dots resolution too? It would be just great to finally get pixel perfect setup for 256/320/512/640px sources.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:43 am 


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Posts: 16
I agree on new 1080p preset - it has enough horizontal space for integer scaled picture of sega saturn(which is streched vertically by default), but i i want bigger picture - there is no horizontal space - green garbage gets in the way :(

GBS-8200 with recommended VGA2HDMI.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:20 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
The tradeoff to be made is between a 2560px sampling resolution with no output scaling vs less sampling resolution and scaled output.
Using 2560 produces a great looking 4:3 image on a 16:9 canvas, which fits the 2 popular HDTV resolutions perfectly.
The aspect ratio is formed by selecting one of the available output / display clocks, which just so happen to produce 4:3 in 16:9.
There is a drawback to 2560 though, as it maxes out the hardware line FIFOs. It cannot display wide sources fully and has to crop those.

Using less than 2560px sampling and output scaling is more flexible, but image quality is never quite as good.
The extra flexibility affords no need to crop and, obviously, more output scaling options.

I think it's best to play to the strengths of each solution, so I'd like to reserve 720p/1080p for exclusive use on HDTV sets, the main gbscontrol application.
For flexibility, there can be various other resolutions.
For example, 1440x900 should work with capture cards that don't do 1080p@60.
An x768 preset might be even better, as it's very compatible.

Quote:
I checked commits and it seems you've also added some patches for these presets in the code, so I guess just swapping header files from old version won't help here?

Yes, that's the problem with development if i keep the old presets. It will blow up the support code even more.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:08 pm 


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So what reserving for HDTV mean? That wide sources are not for scaling now? :(
Maybe it possible to make 2 presets - for wide with less sampling clock, and "maximum quality" with high sampling but for narrow?..


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:26 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 174
I'm using a recording box, not a capture card. And it only accepts common HDTV resolutions (and only 720p works with 60fps, and youtube min res for 60fps is 720p too so it was the best compromise).

I'm also using it with arcade boards, mainly MVS and CPS2, previously I had both nicely fit inside the whole window, but now MVS is too wide and CPS2 is too narrow...

How about using full 2560 sampling for 1080p only ? It's what 99% of HDTV users will want to use.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:38 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
Nuck-TH:
Sources can still be wide or regular, but the output assumes the source to be 4:3.
This is meant for regular NTSC and compatible (PAL soon) formats, such as every console made before 2000.
Later consoles use widescreen NTSC in some situations, but normally it is optional.
It's only with XBOX360 / PS3 that widescreen NTSC would be a default, except that those already offer a direct digital output.
So this is a decision between optimizing for 90% of use cases vs a mediocre 100% coverage.
At least for the old 1920x1080, there is visible jailbar like effects from it just being a bit too much for the hardware.
The old 720p output was fine in that regard at least, so yeah.

Ryoandr:
With regards to that old 720p being at least not an image degradation from jailbars, I might do that (reinstate the old preset).


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:46 pm 


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So saturn isn't wide? ok, but what i said is still relevant - it can't be proportionally scaled bigger than integer scale for 1080p - height is all available, but width is not - green garbage gets in the way almost instantly, so frame can't be enlarged in width.

What i'm trying is that x240 saturn resolutions to fill screen.
https://sta.sh/21q8a2l2m4nb
- "FullHD Scale full ntsc" is template that i use to postion threads on monitor to mark frame size for bios(grey rectangle in the middle), it is 320x224, so x240 will fill full height of screen and 352x is maximum width.
- "1080p Old" is what i described with old preset, bios fits in rope frame as i intended
- "1080p New" - what happens with new preset(i widened border masking and moved HS a bit to center everything) - it is not possible to make correct proportions even for 320 width now.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:23 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
The "old" screenshot seems a bit wide, the "new" a bit narrow.
This is well within variation of pixel clock of different machines (think SNES 8:7 ratio), which an upscaler doesn't know about.
I used the PSX 240p Test Suite in 320x240 mode to get a perfect circle, so for that machine, it is 100% correct.

You could scale up the new 1080p output, but you immediately loose quality doing that.
Maybe I can find some more ways to tweak this, but the minor variation you get isn't worth ditching the whole idea for, imo.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:56 pm 


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rama wrote:
The "old" screenshot seems a bit wide, the "new" a bit narrow.
This is well within variation of pixel clock of different machines (think SNES 8:7 ratio), which an upscaler doesn't know about.
I used the PSX 240p Test Suite in 320x240 mode to get a perfect circle, so for that machine, it is 100% correct.

See template picture. It is not a bit wide, it is exact upscale of x224 and x240 saturn resoulutions to fit 1080 height. Width is scaled absolutely proportionally, so it is correct look. "Perfect circle" can vary, because pixels get quite large at such scale, but precise operations in GIMP to make template are percise. Added integer template and color clarifications into previous sta.sh link for reference.
"New" is squished because i didn't tweak it - it is as it looks if i choose 1080p preset, i just moved border masking away and centered picture.

rama wrote:
You could scale up the new 1080p output, but you immediately loose quality doing that.
Maybe I can find some more ways to tweak this, but the minor variation you get isn't worth ditching the whole idea for, imo.

The point is that it would be good to have a choice either to get good quality with scaling limitations, or trade a bit of quality for flexibility(with sclae that i want is is not integer anyway, so quality loss will be soaped anyway :) ).


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:21 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
So, if quality can be compromised anyway, why is it important to use the 1080p preset?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:15 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
So where we're standing:
The old 1080p preset had jailbar issues, just from running the output unit at maximum clock and utilizing the scaler engine.
I don't like the idea of further supporting this preset, as it can not deliver a good picture to a flat TV, which is its main application.
I've tried improving the quality over the months, but the jailbars just move around a bit.

The old 720p preset was okay in that regard.
While I don't want to have 2 720p presets to support, I'm okay with reverting to the old one, since 1080p exists (and is better) for the main application.

I'm also considering more resolutions, particularly below the ~1080 total lines that are limiting many devices.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:04 pm 


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rama wrote:
So where we're standing:
The old 1080p preset had jailbar issues, just from running the output unit at maximum clock and utilizing the scaler engine.
I don't like the idea of further supporting this preset, as it can not deliver a good picture to a flat TV, which is its main application.
I've tried improving the quality over the months, but the jailbars just move around a bit.

The old 720p preset was okay in that regard.
While I don't want to have 2 720p presets to support, I'm okay with reverting to the old one, since 1080p exists (and is better) for the main application.

I'm also considering more resolutions, particularly below the ~1080 total lines that are limiting many devices.

I see no reason to keep around the old high res output presets. It's trivial to crop and scale in post processing for video capture if you know what you're doing


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:01 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1234
720p preset and support code are back to the old behaviour.
1080p is still looking fantastic on my displays :>

Edit:
Iraito, you can use the HS controls now, but I had problems moving the image in one direction.
Not sure what's going on there yet, hope it's not the direction you need :p


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:42 pm 



Joined: 27 Dec 2019
Posts: 2
rama wrote:
AndehX:
That is exactly the adapter I have here. This one uses a plain old 3.3V + 1.8V linear regulator.
Please see the pic on how to mod this. I've just added another ground to the connector shield (black wire), as that was unconnected and I wanted to use it as additional ground.
The red wire is meant to go on a convenient 3.3V point on the GBS.
Spoiler: show
Image


benryves:
Okay, that's fair enough. Thanks for allowing links :)

The captures are fine imho, even with the quirks.
Youtube is severely lacking in gbscontrol demo captures :p

Edit: I think the GBI software is really doing something weird there, and it's not the cable. Very interesting!

rama, can you please share the content of the eeprom 24C02 of this adaptor? And the code of the additional components around? Mine adaptor came without the eeprom, only works on 1080P preset and i think that's because it does not have the eeprom.

Regards.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:23 am 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 174
Thank you for restoring 720p, works wonders, after cutting at iframes just setting MP4 AR to 4/3 allows no need for re-encode.

Still debating on that watermark, I like to keep right now it but if I remove it I would be able to use full vertical res without masking key elements like power bars.

https://streamable.com/cy4sh


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