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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:16 pm 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 512
Location: Escondido, CA, USA
rama wrote:
Okay, thanks.
These logs seem like the SOG slicer is just fine.

The problem is probably with the coast window, VSync detect window or pulse ignore length.
These are values that I need to tweak so they work with all possible sources.

Can you arrange a Teamviewer session with the ESP8266 connected via USB and controllable via Arduino IDE?

A what now? :p

You mean this: https://www.teamviewer.com/en-us/
?

What would I need to do with that?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:03 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
Teamviewer is a remote desktop solution.
You run this on your computer and it gives you some code that you tell me via pm.
I can then connect to your machine and control it remotely.

On your end, you should have the Arduino IDE running and the ESP8266 connected via USB cable.
The scaler should run the problematic game.

So if all that's done, I can go in and debug the problem as if I was sitting at your computer.
I'll probably have it done in 2-3 minutes ;)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:58 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
Debug session with NoAffinity went well, the problem should be fixed now :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:05 pm 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 512
Location: Escondido, CA, USA
It seems to be working great, rama!

Thank yoiu for this improvement. It was an honor to watch you work. :)

On a sideo note, I finally did a cap kit on this Genesis Model 1 HDG version, and I've finally managed to rid it of the jailbars. As well, the issue with power cycling and having no video unless letting it sit for a few minutes, is also resolved. :D


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:41 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
Cheers :)

Thanks for the opportunity to find this bug!
It had a very low chance of occurring. I wouldn't have found it myself.

The revised code should be fine for all consoles now. It's simpler and more robust, but it does rely on sources following the specs at least a little.
I can't think of anything worse than the sync oddities of SNES and Mega Drive though, and they're fine now :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:17 am 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 28
Finally played around with the SOG button as mentioned. NADA. I will say on today's update instead of green garbage it's just flat white and grey. I honestly think something did blow up. Reconfirmed it works on my cap cards and on my displays. Time to just suck it up and buy another GBS to confirm my suspicions....


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
I would try a few more old builds first. It's just kind of unlikely to break the RCA input.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:53 pm 



Joined: 25 Nov 2019
Posts: 13
I've been running CPS3 on this scaler and feeding it to my VGA monitor and/or my capture card, but it's unpredictable. Sometimes it works, sometimes it just won't sync. Seems like turning SyncWatcher on and off makes it work sometimes. The FrameTime Lock option doesn't help. Namco System 12, CPS2, Neo Geo are all fine. Is there anything I can do to make this work every time?

If it helps, this is the kind of output I get from the box.
Code:
^.*_
^.*_
^.*_
^.*_
.^.*_
^.*_
^.*_
.^.*_
^.*_
^.*_
^.*_
^.*_
^.*_


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:14 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
rememberizer:
VGA bypass mode isn't as well supported for now.
If you can, try another form of getting sync to the GBS.
I think you're using H+V Sync right now, so if you can, try CSync.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:13 pm 



Joined: 25 Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Oh, I'm using Csync from the CPS3 jamma output going to the GBS.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:48 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
Great, can you disable VSync from reaching the GBS?
(VSync must be reaching it, because it's automatically going into RGB/HV bypass mode.)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:37 am 



Joined: 25 Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Hmm... I was using the JST connector pins before, so I moved to the RGBS input instead, and definitely only csync on those pins. Same issues, but now the box is giving me different output. I'm not sure if there's a way to send Vsync from a CPS3 board to be honest? As far as I know, they only do Csync.

Code:
..*_
*_
^.*_
*_
^.*_
^.*_
*_
^..*_
*_
^.*_
^.*_
*_
^.*_
^.*_
^.*_
^.*_
*_
^12345*_
*_
^
.*_
*_
^.*_
^.*_


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:52 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
Wait.. I don't even print these logs anymore!
Please update to the latest version.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:09 am 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 512
Location: Escondido, CA, USA
Not sure if im talking to the same point being discussed, but if you input vga, you have to remove the input sync<->ground resistor.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:07 am 



Joined: 25 Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Updated to the latest version and this is what i'm getting:

Code:
.*2345678
Format change: 1 <stable>
ADC offset: R:40 G:40 B:40
post preset done (preset id: 4) for 60Hz

.*2345678
Format change: 2 <stable>
ADC offset: R:40 G:40 B:40
post preset done (preset id: 14) for 50Hz

.*2345678
Format change: 1 <stable>
ADC offset: R:40 G:40 B:40
post preset done (preset id: 4) for 60Hz

.*
.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*
.*
.*.*.*.*.*.23*.*.*..*.*.*.*.*


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:54 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
Okay, that looks like an improvement at least.

So it can't decide whether the source is NTSC or PAL / 15kHz 60 or 50.
Since these formats have ~263 and ~312 lines respectively, there's probably something special about the signal.

Did this ever work with an older version? If so, could you try reverting back to it and get some logs on what this is detected as?

Alternatively, if you apply a preset and then stop syncwatcher (development tab), do you get a legible picture?
If so, what do the logs say then?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:14 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 183
I found this about CPS3
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:12 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
Thanks.
So this is a regular "NTSC 60" system and should be detected as "Format change: 1 <stable>".

There's going to be something weird about it, that throws off the Mode Detect unit..

Edit: Yeah, there is *something* going on around VBlank, but I don't know what the suggested AFC fix on an XRGB3 actually does
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... c_settings

Edit2: Okay, *all* the arcade board require some sort of "AFC" tuning on the XRGB units, and none of the home consoles do.
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... d_settings

So yeah, I don't own any actual arcade hardware ><


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:24 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
So as a follow up, since we're on the shmups forum and all..

What do you guys think would be the cheapest way to get authentic arcade hardware for tests?
I don't have any of this stuff. No super guns, no power supplies, no input methods.

Applicable hardware would be all the arcade stuff listed as needing AFC correction here:
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... d_settings

I'm fine with borrowing stuff. I don't need to own a new collection ;p
I'm located in Germany.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:36 pm 


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Posts: 779
I was about to say, the best way would probably be to find someone to borrow some hardware off of, so you can do some testing.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:20 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
I just checked Ebay for an overview. Prices for anything on the list are through the roof.

It's going to be borrowing :p


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:09 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 1379
Location: Australia
Send a capture card around the world and team view us?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:15 am 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 183
If Team Viewer debug can be a thing, I should be able to get access to a CPS2 (but it already works great), CPS3, and probably other on the list like Sunset Riders (TMNT hardware IIRC).
I also have several different MVS board revisions, and an AES, but these work pretty much perfect too.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:53 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
Wow, didn't realize we already have so many known goods.

So maybe the issue with that CPS3 isn't anything special, but just a violation of some assumptions I had to make.
These could be things like long'ish HSync times or coast lengths.

It would be best to do this via Teamviewer then.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:18 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 183
BTW, AFC is mentionned on Ikegami and BVM A threads, it stands for Automatic Frequency Control (AKA VCR mode on some monitors), and, if I understood correctly is basically sync sensitivity (?) ; which would also seems to be what XRGBs setting do.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60403&hilit=Automatic+Frequency+Control


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:52 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
Thanks, that thread is a useful collection of info that explains AFC well enough to me.

The function is called sub-coast in the TV5725 and I make use of it.
When they speak of time constants, they probably mean the coast window that has to be configured (start and end point need to be set manually).
Here the problem is in the details:
The window size needs to be determined correctly, using some available source (I use one of the line length counters, relying on it being correct at the time).
Also, once the setting is configured, it seems to be interpreted differently under certain conditions (which I think I handle okay).
Next, the code that analyses the incoming sync signal (I called it simply "syncwatcher" and stuck with it) has to be able to recognize a format change (PAL/NTSC or to any of the HD formats) and be able to differentiate between format changes and sync loss situations.

This all leads to behaviour where, when a sync signal steps out of expectations, the GBS seemingly can't decide what to do.
I'm always working on this stuff, and even the last couple updates deal exactly with this problem set.

Because this is such a complex system, I can't offer simple advice that will fix any problem.
I always need to understand exactly what goes wrong, before I can come up with a changed strategy that fixes it.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:59 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 183
the forum where I found the CPS3 timing image explanained that hrate is below that of PAL (15.432 khz vs 15.625 khz), and that line total is less than 262 (259 lines).
So could any/both timings be off enough to throw GBS out ?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:00 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
A definite "maybe" to that! :p


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:32 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1321
There's a new update that may fix the CPS3 problem.
One of the indicators for source line length could overflow, causing sync glitch windows that rely on it to be bad.
This may just be the problem with the CPS3 system, as it could render "AFC" useless.

There's also a neat little warning overlay on the web ui now.
If it's on, the ESP8266 lost connection. So now at least you know when that happens.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:14 am 


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Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 151
What's the deal with those GBS 8219s aka "XVGA Box"? Is it basically just far too expensive for something that isn't particularly different / would require a totally different CFW?


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