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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:28 pm 



Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Posts: 29
1080p woo!

One note about the wifi/web interface, I was having very poor results with getting the page to load in general... until I turned off my mobile data and then it worked much better. I'm not sure what the default routing is on an android phone when connected to wifi+mobile data, but it seems like it was preferring the mobile data route. YMMV


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:32 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 901
fluxcore wrote:
One note about the wifi/web interface, I was having very poor results with getting the page to load in general... until I turned off my mobile data and then it worked much better.


Same here, yeah. The mobile ISP provided DNS server seems to have strict precedence. If it says there is no gbscontrol.local, that seems to be what the device (and probably entire WiFi network) seems to accept.
I remember they teach all this stuff in Cisco networking courses. Those were great! Anyone wanna donate a ticket? xD


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:17 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 666
Woop! 1080p support!

Gave it a test, and initially, the vertical scaling seems to be off (you can see this when enabling scanlines) but a quick vertical scaling adjustment pulls it into line. Here's some initial photos from my projector:

Image

Image

Image

Image

All photos are with the line filter turned OFF, so you can tell that the vertical scaling integer is correct.

I also built a GBS for my mate this week (HDMI version) and he is blown away by how good the results are given he only paid £30 for it.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:34 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 901
Glad to hear it :)
I suppose it costs ~£30 in material, plus whatever the work hours are. So cheers for building one for him :)

The vscale factor looks right, yep. What factor is this? I can make this the default.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:46 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 666
I reduced the vertical scaling by 15


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:17 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 901
There is a readout on the web ui console, shows up when you change the scaling ;p


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:27 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 666
oh crap yeah, I forgot about that lol. I'll take another look in a bit


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:28 am 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 666
Scale Vert: 512


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:06 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 901
Ah yeah. 512 is exactly half of the output scaler range. It will align the source to target lines nicely, but there's a catch:
The value is too low to fill the vertical space.
If the display would scale the input to fill a 4:3 canvas, it may be fine, but mine doesn't, and I can't know what the typical behaviour is.

For NTSC, we have 480 * 2 = 960 lines out of 1080, quite a lot fewer lines than necessary.
(The divider "2" is 1024/512, 1024 being the vertical scaling range and 512 the divider).

This issue affects the other presets as well, of course. Fortunately, the divider doesn't always have to be "512".
For the 1080p NTSC preset though, I'll stick to the current default of "482" (resulting in 1020 out of 1080 lines).
It scales okay'ish with scanlines (much better if the line filter is enabled), and it passes the linearity test (the circle is round, not squished).

People are always free to change the scaling, of course.
If the display can scale without distortions (perhaps it is a projector ;p), then going with 512 is just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:12 am 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 666
Yeah, with the line filter on, scanlines don't look too bad on my projector, so 482 should be ok. If I am live streaming, i'd prefer the razer sharp vertical scaling of 512, just for that extra bit of sharpness.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:46 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 901
That's all good and fair, it does look awesome :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:57 am 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 666
yeah 1080p definitely looks the best out of all the profiles. Out of curiosity, is it possible to get a 4:3 version of 1080p? For instance 1440x1080? For some reason, my small monitor won't allow me to switch to 4:3 under 1920x1080


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:58 am 


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AndehX wrote:
yeah 1080p definitely looks the best out of all the profiles. Out of curiosity, is it possible to get a 4:3 version of 1080p? For instance 1440x1080? For some reason, my small monitor won't allow me to switch to 4:3 under 1920x1080

how is it working currently, stretching the 4:3 source to fill 16:9 canvas?

best way to handle 1080p preset in my opinion would be to scale the source to 1440x1080 in a 1920x1080 frame with pillar-boxing so fixed pixel 1080p displays can just output the image as received


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:39 am 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 666
maxtherabbit wrote:
AndehX wrote:
yeah 1080p definitely looks the best out of all the profiles. Out of curiosity, is it possible to get a 4:3 version of 1080p? For instance 1440x1080? For some reason, my small monitor won't allow me to switch to 4:3 under 1920x1080

how is it working currently, stretching the 4:3 source to fill 16:9 canvas?

best way to handle 1080p preset in my opinion would be to scale the source to 1440x1080 in a 1920x1080 frame with pillar-boxing so fixed pixel 1080p displays can just output the image as received

Yeah that would be the better option, although I'm not sure that is possible on the GBS. Rama would have to answer that.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:25 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 901
The horizontal resolution is arbitrary and can be anything.
The new 1920x1080 preset uses a 2560 PLL divider, reduces the analog data to fit within the digital input limits of 1024 pixels, then scales the processed data back up to kind of 1920 wide.
Seeing this processing chain, it's hard to tell what the actual resolution of the preset is.
Let's say it "resembles" 1920 x 1080, and by tuning any of the parameters, 1440 x 1080 is doable.

The tricky part is to find good parameters that maximize the chips capabilities and also provide the desired output timings.

Take the 1080p preset and adjust the web ui controls. That will get you some fast results :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:29 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 666
Yeah I did try adjusting the 1080p preset to scale the image to 4:3 but when you start scaling horizontally too much, the scaler starts to glitch out


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:56 am 



Joined: 27 Jan 2019
Posts: 7
rama wrote:
First of all, I use Windows as well. For dev stuff I prefer a Linux environment though, and Babun offers an almost native experience.
http://babun.github.io/
You get a shell and very well working integration.


Cheers, I'll give it a go. :)

rama wrote:
Then there's your power issues.
You shouldn't need an inductor, and as long as you get noise without it, something must be wrong.
Do you power the ESP8266 board via its VIN, or directly via the GBS 3.3V line?
It's recommended to use a 5V to 9V supply to the GBS and VIN on the ESP8266 method.
Each boards regulators will take that to their required 3.3V.
The power supply should be able to deliver 5W (5V / 1A), but higher specs often mean a better quality.


I'm using the VIN pin on the NodeMCU board, connected to the pin header on the GBS-8200 board next to the barrel jack. I then supply the GBS-8200 board with 5V into that barrel jack. I've tried several different power supplies, most rated for 2A at 5V. I've also tried a couple of older phone chargers which deliver a bit less (but always over 1A). Some have more noise than others, some have less. I've also tried using the USB port on my TV, but that's fairly noisy. In all cases, when the NodeMCU board is directly connected to the same 5V as the GBS-8200 there's a ton of diagonal-stripe noise, but putting that inductor in series cleans it up 100%. I have no other connections, just VIN, GND, and SDA/SCL/DEBUG.

rama wrote:
Regarding IE support:
Sorry to have you go through the extra steps. The "let" version has been tested and works well.
I'd like to keep using it, seeing as the IE problem will solve itself in the near future (as MS has finally given up), and generally, once you start trying to support IE, there's no return to sanity ;)

That's fine, I'm happy to make the tweaks to get it working for myself, but thought I'd mention it in case someone else was in my situation and wanted to get it working on an older phone or similar. I wasn't suggesting you change the master version of the source to accommodate a tiny minority!

rama wrote:
Edit:
The web ui is notoriously finicky. I'm battling SDK bugs, bad WiFi conditions (from the near proximity of the antenna to the scaler chip) and inexperience on my side.
I'll get it reliable one day, but until then, don't assume it will work without issue ;p
Right now it looks like an initial gbscontrol.local lookup takes forever. It may be a problem where the ESP8266 doesn't reply to ARP requests.

The only issues I've had with the web interface are when I use an underpowered supply. gbscontrol.local has never worked for me but I think that's just a limitation of my network/router (I've had similar issues with accessing my Raspberry Pi across the network by hostname), I just use the IP and the interface comes up instantly. :)

rama wrote:
Finally:
Your TV doesn't work with 1280x720@50 over VGA?
I was hoping that this would be supported at least. Maybe 1080p is..


I double checked again with the latest version of the control software. When fed a 50Hz signal my TV displays "NOT SUPPORT" if I use 1280x960 or 1280x1024. If I use a 50Hz 1280x720, 1920x1080 or 640x480 signal the TV displays a picture but the image is shifted hard to the right, cutting off about the rightmost third (when using 640x480 it actually sees 720x576). I think the fault is with my TV, if I use the Mini VGA2HDMI and connect the output of that into the TV's HDMI input it displays perfectly at all resolutions and refresh rates without weird image shifts.

The "Force PAL 60Hz" mode also works well, when enabled all presets work well and none of the image is cut off when directly plugged into VGA. Of course, the picture is a bit juddery so I won't be using that normally but it's good to know it's there for compatibility.

Thanks again for all your hard work! 1080p looks fantastic on my TV. :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:32 pm 


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Location: Escondido, CA, USA
benryves wrote:
In all cases, when the NodeMCU board is directly connected to the same 5V as the GBS-8200 there's a ton of diagonal-stripe noise, but putting that inductor in series cleans it up 100%.


Can you please explain this inductor installation? The noise you describe sounds exactly like noise I still have although a good power supply (netgear 9v) and other recommended mods have cleaned up a good amount of it.

Rama - loving the 1080p and other recent optimizations. Great job!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:02 pm 



Joined: 27 Jan 2019
Posts: 7
NoAffinity wrote:
benryves wrote:
In all cases, when the NodeMCU board is directly connected to the same 5V as the GBS-8200 there's a ton of diagonal-stripe noise, but putting that inductor in series cleans it up 100%.


Can you please explain this inductor installation? The noise you describe sounds exactly like noise I still have although a good power supply (netgear 9v) and other recommended mods have cleaned up a good amount of it.


I removed the wire I had connected to the NodeMCU's VIN pin and connected a 100uH inductor (looking like this) between the old power wire and that VIN pin, so it's in series with the power supply.

I don't have an oscilloscope or other test equipment or indeed any other inductors to try (it's just what I had to hand) so don't know if this is an optimal value but all I can say is that it completely cleared up that particular type of noise for me.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:47 pm 


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Location: Escondido, CA, USA
benryves wrote:
NoAffinity wrote:
benryves wrote:
In all cases, when the NodeMCU board is directly connected to the same 5V as the GBS-8200 there's a ton of diagonal-stripe noise, but putting that inductor in series cleans it up 100%.


Can you please explain this inductor installation? The noise you describe sounds exactly like noise I still have although a good power supply (netgear 9v) and other recommended mods have cleaned up a good amount of it.


I removed the wire I had connected to the NodeMCU's VIN pin and connected a 100uH inductor (looking like this) between the old power wire and that VIN pin, so it's in series with the power supply.

I don't have an oscilloscope or other test equipment or indeed any other inductors to try (it's just what I had to hand) so don't know if this is an optimal value but all I can say is that it completely cleared up that particular type of noise for me.

Any chance I could trouble you for a picture of the mod? Looks like my local electronics store has the inductors in stock, I will do this one this weekend. And with the picture, it might be a good one to add to the formal mod list.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:09 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 901
benryves:

Regarding IE, it's just that their non-compliance is not a target to develop for.
The browser needs to go away, and as I read recently, Microsoft finally caved and will be using the Chrome engine from now on :)
Isn't there any other browser available on your device? Anything that's not IE will work.

You mentioned a shifted picture in some presets. This is a result of the TV failing to auto adjust to the input timings.
If you add that HDMI transcoder, the chip in there does the auto adjusting.
Auto adjust often has to have a fairly bright picture showing, so that the circuits see where active video is in relation to the sync pulses.
But in any case, PAL/50Hz is badly supported by many TV. It's always best to try and use 60Hz sources.
(Which makes me kind of sad, really. I have a few nice classic games here, but can't stand all the 50Hz problems with them :( )

For the power supply noise, that's really odd as well.
I have a scope and did many checks on the power lines. They're indeed very noisy on the input side.
The outputs are clean though, especially the important GBS 3.3V rail is good.
So it looks like for some reason, your setup provides a path for the noise.
Could you take a few pictures please?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:15 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 901
I spent a few hours connecting a PSX to the digital input pins of the Tv5725.
With 3 color bits, H+V sync and the pixel clock connected, I can get a picture using the HD Bypass unit.
I wasn't able to make the full processing chain work. The picture would be all over the place in memory, and at best I got a rolling picture.
Maybe the device also needs a data enable signal (the manual says so), but then again, HD Bypass mode worked out of the box.

The solder job is difficult. There should definitely be a flat flex solution, otherwise it'll be super hard to hook up all those bits.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:43 pm 


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rama wrote:
I spent a few hours connecting a PSX to the digital input pins of the Tv5725.
With 3 color bits, H+V sync and the pixel clock connected, I can get a picture using the HD Bypass unit.
I wasn't able to make the full processing chain work. The picture would be all over the place in memory, and at best I got a rolling picture.
Maybe the device also needs a data enable signal (the manual says so), but then again, HD Bypass mode worked out of the box.

The solder job is difficult. There should definitely be a flat flex solution, otherwise it'll be super hard to hook up all those bits.

that's pretty rad - I don't suppose you have an HDMI transmitter laying around to test setting the TV5725 to digital output mode since you've already got the wires tacked?

testing the display enable pin should be easy enough, if that's not it I'd guess the output timings of the PSX are offending the scaling engine?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:08 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 901
Only stuff that could be salvaged. But HDMI chips need their own programming, and I have nothing there.

Wouldn't DVI be simpler anyway? If DVI is simple enough, then I'd try that first, since it'll be comparatively easy to step DVI up to HDMI, right?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:31 pm 


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rama wrote:
Only stuff that could be salvaged. But HDMI chips need their own programming, and I have nothing there.

Wouldn't DVI be simpler anyway? If DVI is simple enough, then I'd try that first, since it'll be comparatively easy to step DVI up to HDMI, right?

yeah DVI is probably better for this purpose anyway tbh


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:35 pm 


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Nevermind, benryves, I realize the ESP8266 and NodeMCU are the same. :oops: That makes perfect sense, and I picked up an inductor at lunch...hoping this will help.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:47 pm 



Joined: 27 Jan 2019
Posts: 7
NoAffinity wrote:
Nevermind, benryves, I realize the ESP8266 and NodeMCU are the same. :oops: That makes perfect sense, and I picked up an inductor at lunch...hoping this will help.

Fingers crossed it helps your issue, then!

rama wrote:
benryves:

Regarding IE, it's just that their non-compliance is not a target to develop for.
The browser needs to go away, and as I read recently, Microsoft finally caved and will be using the Chrome engine from now on :)
Isn't there any other browser available on your device? Anything that's not IE will work.

No, there's no other browser on Windows Phone, and I only provided the snippet of code and instructions for people like me who want to adapt the code for older browsers - I'm not asking you to make the change! The browser will certainly go away, but that won't make older devices magically able to run newer browsers. :)

rama wrote:
You mentioned a shifted picture in some presets. This is a result of the TV failing to auto adjust to the input timings.
If you add that HDMI transcoder, the chip in there does the auto adjusting.
Auto adjust often has to have a fairly bright picture showing, so that the circuits see where active video is in relation to the sync pulses.

The same TV auto-adjusts to the same picture content at 60Hz just fine, it just seems very confused by 50Hz content. Running through the HDMI transcoder is a good solution for me, though, and leaves the TV's VGA port free for my Dreamcast. I've had similar issues on other TVs in the past when using my PlayStation's VGA box.

rama wrote:
For the power supply noise, that's really odd as well.
I have a scope and did many checks on the power lines. They're indeed very noisy on the input side.
The outputs are clean though, especially the important GBS 3.3V rail is good.
So it looks like for some reason, your setup provides a path for the noise.
Could you take a few pictures please?

Now you're going to embarrass me. :oops: I'm still waiting for a new die for my crimping tool to make proper connectors so I can only apologise for the wires stuffed into the VGA port: https://i.imgur.com/E0z1jnf.jpg (this is very much a temporary lash-up!)

Yes, the power wire from the GBS-8200 is very long; I had tried shortening it but the amount of noise was the same so I went back to using the supplied wire + terminal block (so I think that wire length would be a red herring as the source of noise).


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:01 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 901
That's a tidy prototyping board, certainly nothing you need to hide ;p

The wires that run below the board are picking up a lot of noise. They need to be routed away from any traces.
I think that though the sync stripper, some noise current is entering the analog section.
It's a bit tricky to debug, but I think this is involved in the video noise.

If you have the 1nF capacitors and feel that you can do the solder job, replace C33 and C35.
Then you can remove the sync stripper from the setup.
If you want to keep the stripper, try placing it closer to the GBS analog section, and power it from the GBS 3.3V taken from a connection near the analog section.
Also ground it there. Remember that power sections are always a loop :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:27 am 



Joined: 27 Jan 2019
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rama wrote:
The wires that run below the board are picking up a lot of noise. They need to be routed away from any traces.
I think that though the sync stripper, some noise current is entering the analog section.
It's a bit tricky to debug, but I think this is involved in the video noise.

This no doubt accounts for some noise but isn't the root of the diagonal stripe noise I was getting before. When I move the project to a final box I'll make sure to keep the connections between analogue sections as short as possible.

The NodeMCU is in a socket and I did find that if I let it set up the video scaler parameters and then yanked it out of the board the noise vanished too. That's what prompted me to put the inductor in series with its input.

Quote:
If you have the 1nF capacitors and feel that you can do the solder job, replace C33 and C35.
Then you can remove the sync stripper from the setup.

I can probably manage soldering in the replacement capacitors, it's desoldering the old ones first I don't fancy! That's why I think I'll stick with the sync stripper.

Quote:
Also ground it there. Remember that power sections are always a loop :)

I was always taught to avoid loops wherever possible as ground loops can lead to interference.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:34 am 


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Sadly no new improvement with the 100uh inductor in line on the esp8266 3v3 input. Just to be certain, you guys are routing gbs p5 header vcc pin to esp8266 3v3 input?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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