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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:31 am 


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rama wrote:
100 + 330 in series ;)
I know, I might have those laying around. :)

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:32 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
So on my crappy TV I get an okay picture. Green and Luma seem to be spot on, blue seems to be good, but my red looks to have too much gain.
I'm not familiar with YPbPr encoding so I need some feedback on that red gain, please :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:53 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
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Well, colors look balanced on the top end now.
I've no idea how to calculate color mixing according to the guide (I think they don't even mention this case).
It looks okay here but no idea about other / better displays.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:14 pm 


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Posts: 456
Location: Rome
You could use the 240p suite to properly calibrate colors.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:54 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
The 240p test suite is my foundation for any work on the GBS ;)

My problem with this new output method is that I don't have any experience with it.
Configuration complexity is greater than for RGBHV.
The VDS unit still has to correct (or mix) whatever the ADC sampled.
For RGBHV, the programming guide has some baseline color conversion numbers, but there's nothing for YPbPr output.
So the output color mixing formula is already unknown.
In addition, the input to the VDS unit is also unknown (the chip internal RGB to YUV matrix).
There are some formulas for "popular" matrices, but it could be any or none of them :p
https://www.vocal.com/video/rgb-and-yuv ... onversion/

For now, I've balanced colors by eye, which is probably not so great on other displays.
I'm reading up on the topic though, and I hope to be able to use oscilloscope readings soon.
Once the scope readings look good, the 240p test suite should verify the results :)

Edit:
Well, that was quick. Cheers for the pioneering work over at hdretrovision! ;)
https://www.hdretrovision.com/faq#standards


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:44 am 


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ok, rama, here we go with me probably doing dumb stuff for a few tries and eventually getting it right, but here we go anyway:

Soldered in a parallel 100ohm + 330ohm at R26
Downloaded the latest build from github, compiled and uploaded to esp
RGBS into the gbs via 5-pin header
Connected passive vga->bnc connector to gbs vga out
connected bnc end (with rca adapters) to ossc, green to y, pb to blue, pr to red
set gbs to component out, via web ui
the ossc is reporting something, but it is inconsistent, and only on the default web ui profile. the signal constantly drops, and I never get a picture on screen.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:52 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
Got a pic of the solder job?

Which version of the GBS do you use?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:14 am 


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Slapped together quickly for now. I intend to do something cleaner, with an on-off switch, when the smd 430R's arrive.

I confirmed no short on the ic side of r26 to the cap next to it, and confirmed continuity from r26 to pin 6. There is continuity on the opposite side, which I assume is normal based on the picture in post #1.

Image
Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:54 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
Okay, this board design is the same as mine here. The resistor looks correct as well ( :p ).
Have you measured total resistance to be ~111 Ohm?

Also, the software doesn't work with custom presets yet. Only default presets will work.
I'm sure the 720p preset should sync on a TV.
On that note, maybe try a TV instead of the OSSC ;)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:22 am 


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ah, well, my ultimate goal here is to be able to take all of my scart consoles to a recently acquired trinitron. :twisted: but, the trinitron only supports 240p/480i.

But I found something else interesting in my chain. I've found the first major shortcoming of the otaku games 6-port switch I'm using. It's this one, with SCART out and RCA outputs (RGBS and audio).

https://otaku-games.com/index.php?_rout ... witch.html

The output is switched, however, the switch doesn't seem to provide complete isolation. Without going into full details, the sync that the OSSC was detecting from the YPbPr input actually appears to be "sync bleed" due to both outputs of the switch being connected at the same time. When I remove the SCART cable from the output, the OSSC detects no signal on the YPbPr input. Consequently, degradation on the SCART side also goes away when I disconnect the 5-pin RGBS plug from the GBS.

So, with SCART output disconnected at the SCART switch, and an output going only to the Trinitron, I tried setting the GBS to component and pass thru. All I get is a scrambled image. Trying each GBS output connected individually at the Trinitron, I get:

Y - b/w scambled image
Pb - blue scrambled image
Pr - red scrambled image

:edit: I'm getting 393 ohms, albeit measuring in circuit.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:51 am 


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I tried taking the output to a VGA monitor, and toggled the output setting via web ui to make sure its outputting vga. Still working good there, and if theres any degradation due to the additional parallel resistance, I cant tell. Image

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:edit: I took the same vga cable used to get a signal on this vga monitor, and plugged the vga cable into OSSC AV3. It detects the vga output from gbs just fine, but I do believe colors are a bit dull. When switching the gbs to component, however, the OSSC detects nothing. Tried all OSSC AV3 input options (RGBHV, RGsB, RGBS, YPbPr), and nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:29 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
I measure 111.5 Ohm in circuit. It could be part variance but you should check/redo the soldering, just in case.
Edit: Your original 150 Ohm resistor must've lost contact.
When I first modded mine, the wire I used wasn't making good contact. Something about the small solder area and maybe lead free original solder.
If it helps, one side of the original SMD resistor is ground. I'm not sure what the effects of using a far away ground point will be though, so best keep it short.

Your devices kind of seeing a signal is probably the horizontal blanking area. It is regular and at or near zero.
A sensitive device could interpret it as a sync pulse, but it'll never lock onto it :p

And yea, the resistor modification will screw up the RGB range. You'll get an output that's too hot.
It's a decision for one output mode or the other. Would be nice to have a switchable solution.


Last edited by rama on Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:12 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
Here's my version :p
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:07 pm 


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I got the resistors in yesterday. Went with a quick piggy-back method, on top of the original 150ohm resistor. I'll probably get a little more inventive with a simple switch eventually, but it's now working well for testing purposes.

Spoiler: show
Image
Image
Image


The only thing not working is pass-through, though. And that's the thing I'm mostly after. OSSC reports no signal once I change to pass-through, and the Trinitron displays a scrambled signal.

Spoiler: show
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:54 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
Great that it works now! :)

Passthrough modes should be possible as well, but I'll have to implement them first.
All I've got for now is the 720p and 480p scaling presets. A kind of 1080p preset will be next (just a 1280x preset with some extra lines to bump it up).
Then I'll look at passthrough options.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:18 pm 


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I tried all profiles, and they all seem to work. Things look really good overall. The image seems to be a touch too bright. Auto gain seems to improve it, but still a touch too bright even after auto gain adjustment. Brighter colors, including white, bloom across scanlines, when scanlines are enabled. Performance seems on par with the VGA output, and with ossc - no noticeable lag.

Maybe all things you already know, but those are my observations, for what they're worth. :)

And of course, just want to say thank you for adding this feature!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:06 pm 



Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 16
Rama,

rama wrote:
I haven't checked the PAL presets yesterday. They may also be affected from the offset issue.

NTSC:
On my scope, active video on Mega Drive is dead center on the scanline.
If you make horizontal magnification a little less, does that work better?

The green bar marks a couple limits in the scaler (line buffers and memory fetch).
I'm trying to use as many horizontal pixels as possible, so the bar can show up, instead of just black noise.
Active video should never reach into the green bar in any of the default presets.
One trick is to mask the green bar. You have controls called Horizontal Mask + / - to control masking.
The presets should be pretty spot on already however, so that users just fine tune with these controls.
In your case, it looks totally off still.
I'll just assume you used PAL and PAL is still bad. Gonna check it now :)

Edit:
Done.
I found and fixed some issues. Especially on 1280x960 and 1280x1024. All PAL presets should be able to show all of Sonic again ;p
PAL is trickier than NTSC to fit within the resource limitations, but I'm happy with what I've got now.
(Until the next big feature breaks it all again? ;p)


I have upgraded my board on November 22. Image positioning improved (I can see almost all of the Lives indicator on the bottom left, along with almost all of the Score/Time/Rings indicators on the top left), but is still a little off. The picture below was taken with a PAL console, but it doesn't look that different on NTSC.

Image

This time, I can center the picture using Move Picture / Right and Picture Control / Horizontal Smaller. No need to use HS Right. Using just Picture Control / Picture Right is not enough (I get the green bar before the image is centered, as reported before)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:22 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
NoAffinity: You're welcome :)
I'll have to see where to go with this new mode.
My TV doesn't allow for any position corrections with Component sources, so I guess they assumed that all sources will put active video in the same spot?
If so, I just need to center the 3 basic presets on my TV, and it might work perfectly everywhere else.

rigues:
Try other presets as well. You may have more luck with the 1280x1024 preset, definitely with the 720p preset.
I don't know how active video can run out of bounds for you (and not here). That'd be great to know, but alas.. :p


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:27 am 



Joined: 15 Mar 2018
Posts: 28
I've been busy with other stuff so only just updated to latest CFW. Can't wait to see the changes.

rama - I know you have experience with Playstation 1. One of my display setups is an old Commodore 1084S monitor (within 6-pin DIN) I use that with a Sync Stripper to be able to plug in my consoles (I use RGB SCART cables plugged into my stripper). Now I tried my Playstation 1 and with the Sync Stripper o,n the Sync is bad? with the external +5V powering the LM1881 off it works most of the time but there is some waving of the picture, especially in FMV clips.

Question - is the Playstation 1's comp sync signal in the Composite Video different? Inverted? My PS1 is one of the last large models 9000 series? So PU-23 or maybe PU-22 motherboard. My PS1 RGB SCART lead just has 220uF caps on the R, G & B signals.

I need to go through all my hardware with the 1084S and write down on a list what works. Most does I am sure.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:26 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
Higgy:
I don't understand what you're trying to do :p

Your console is fine and behaves as any other mainboard revision. Your cable provides CV Sync that is best cleaned up by an LM1881.
The LM1881 requires 5V, if that was part of the question?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:59 am 


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Hey Rama, you probably already know, but I tried inputting component and outputting component and it didnt work. The logging kept saying 'lost'. It was a 480i signal being inputted. Probably something that is not expected to be working, but I figured I'd mention it.

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:11 am 



Joined: 28 Nov 2018
Posts: 6
As weird as it seems to work, connect the ESP8266 in my office at work but not in my playroom in home. I explain, since I spent a lot of time at work sometimes I have dead hours and I use them to work on this type of projects. The ESP8266 Software was installed on my office PC and when I connect the device to the power I can see it without problems the "gbscontrol" network but when I get home and try the full configuration in my game room, everything works fine except the ESP8266 Wifi network. Now I have tried only to connect the ESP8266 and search the network like I did in the office and still I can not see the blessed network. I do not know if these details are relevant, but I want to give them as much information as possible, hoping they can help me.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:42 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
Shiver_169:

Okay,
have you connected the ESP8266 to your workplace WiFi router?
If you connect to a network, the ESP8266 saves the information permanently. From then on, it will connect to that network *only*.
In that case, you need to delete all WiFi settings from the ESP8266.
You can do that by uploading the sketch, but this time with the Erase Flash: Sketch + WiFi Settings option selected:
Image

NoAffinity:
Actually, this should work just fine.
I even have this running here at the moment, using my PS2 via Component-in.
At this time, 480i/p, 576i/p modes are supported. 720p and 1080i will be supported once passthrough is implemented.

Did you replace the input coupling capacitors C35 and C33? IIrc, C35 is for Component SOG.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:57 pm 


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Yes I replaced those caps. I have been using component input w/ VGA output no problem. I will provide exactly what is reported via the logs, later today.

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:41 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
Bummer, bypass modes are very difficult.
Turns out that the sync pulses need to be shaped via VDS, based on Input Formatter setup.
This is similar to programming a preset from scratch, just with no documentation at all.

I've been trying to get 720p source bypass working for the last 3 hours, no luck.
Don't count on it anytime soon ><

Edit:
Having to configure everything just right kind of defeats the point of bypass modes anyway.
The original idea was specifically *not* having to care about any timings, but simply duplicate the source data.
So I think it might be easier to determine what the source is, then build a simile output of that.
(E.g: If source is NTSC, then output 720x480)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:09 pm 


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Im hoping for good ol fashioned 240p pass thru, and probably 480i also, for games that mode switch.

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:30 pm 



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Posts: 570
In RGB output mode (regular), the Sync Processor can bypass the incoming sync right to the output pads.
I configure the ADC to pass all data directly to the output DAC, and the SP to do the sync passthrough. No worries there.

To generate the sync pulses for SOG / YPbPr though, the ADC has to pass the sampled data to the processing blocks.
At least that's how it looks to me here (as there's no documentation and all is trial and error).
So the problem now is that the processing blocks need to be told what the data is.
That's where the complexity of writing firmware for scalers starts ;p
For 240p for example:
- pick ADC sample clock, make sure all dividers / decimation units and PLLAD gains are correct
- some kind of signal appears and the selected clock should be the boundary
- "frame" the signal in the IF, defining H+V blank position and sized, scaling and filter line buffer regions, etc etc
- configure the display processor (VDS) to the right mode, and all the output timings (HSync, VSync, memory fetch.. 24 registers)
- fix all the bugs, of which there'll be at least 10, and each makes it so that nothing works :p
(- at least for bypass modes, no SDRAM stuff is required :) )

Anyway, I'm not giving up easily.
So far I've always managed to make the chip do the right thing :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:42 am 



Joined: 28 Nov 2018
Posts: 6
rama wrote:
Shiver_169:

Okay,
have you connected the ESP8266 to your workplace WiFi router?
If you connect to a network, the ESP8266 saves the information permanently. From then on, it will connect to that network *only*.
In that case, you need to delete all WiFi settings from the ESP8266.
You can do that by uploading the sketch, but this time with the Erase Flash: Sketch + WiFi Settings option selected:
Image


I have verified what you tell me and I still can not find what happens. Try with what you said and do not connect the device at all in my office and coming home I tried to connect and try to configure the network but I did not recognize the network "gbscontrol" again puf :( . After a lot of trying I added the network manually and suddenly the network was visible, after that I tried to configure the network with my home network but when I connected it the network was disconnected and I have not seen it again. It is probably hidden and the credentials that I put in are saved but I can not see it in my network. What seems to me stranger of all this is that in my office it works perfectly but at home it does not happen I dont know what happens exactly ?.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:08 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
Quote:
After a lot of trying I added the network manually and suddenly the network was visible, after that I tried to configure the network with my home network but when I connected it the network was disconnected and I have not seen it again.


This sounds normal. The device is probably connected to your network now. Have you tried reaching it at http://gbscontrol ?
If you're using Windows, you can install Apple's printer services to get mDNS support: https://support.apple.com/kb/Dl999
After installing that package, gbscontrol will reply to http://gbscontrol.local on your network.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:21 pm 



Joined: 28 Nov 2018
Posts: 6
Quote:
This sounds normal. The device is probably connected to your network now. Have you tried reaching it at http://gbscontrol ?
If you're using Windows, you can install Apple's printer services to get mDNS support: https://support.apple.com/kb/Dl999
After installing that package, gbscontrol will reply to http://gbscontrol.local on your network.



Obviously when it happened what I said, I tried to connect to http://gbscontrol.com as well I have connected to the configuration options in the office of my work but here at home I was not successful before I could visualize the network or after doing the process of adding it manually and finally being able to visualize it, simply when I access the address it can not be connected so I still suspect that the ESP8266 is not connected to the network yet. As a detail I have been using my Android phone in this whole house and office process but I have also tried with the PC in my house and I have the same problem. The weekend with a little more time I will try what you comment on the PC I hope to have better results.


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