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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:37 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 545
rama wrote:
I just pushed the promised 1280x1024 preset.
This is great for applying scanlines that won't look uneven or cause vertical scroll shimmer :)

awesome! I'll give it a try. Any news on a possible 1080p preset?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:54 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 426
Hm, not yet. I don't remember what I said last about it, but one concern is that it's quite a lot of lines.
I'll probably have to drop the VDS (DAC) clock a little for this.

Right now I'm battling CSYNC crap again. It's the old fight SNES versus Mega Drive!
One machine's sync requires a low'ish wrong pulse ignore value, the other a high value.
Serving both reliably is quite the pita :p

Oh, and the other day I found a CSYNC descrambler that should work!
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:03 pm 



Joined: 09 Jun 2018
Posts: 15
@rama but in conclusion that does the same that a single ic does, is it worth the labour ? Even source stated that its cheaper alternative to the cost of AIO IC. But that part that it aligns ranges i think is kinda interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:11 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 426
I breadboarded the circuit but it didn't work out right.
Maybe it absolutely requires its particular input clamp setup, as I've omitted that and just fed it an inverted LM1881 signal.

It's still pretty interesting though.
VSync generation worked correctly but it didn't seem to cancel that many serration or equalizing pulses.
Tweaking the resistor values, I could get it to maybe half of the bad pulses removed.

Oh well, learned something new :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:15 am 



Joined: 09 Jun 2018
Posts: 15
@rama
https://www.google.lt/amp/s/ianstedman. ... gines/amp/
I believe you have seen this


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:04 am 



Joined: 11 Aug 2018
Posts: 10
Location: Stockholm
rama wrote:
I just pushed the promised 1280x1024 preset.
This is great for applying scanlines that won't look uneven or cause vertical scroll shimmer :)


Nice work rama, now it's very tempting to buy one of these gbs boards to use with the Amiga since many users have lcd:s with native resolution 1280x1024 :D
It's really just the flickering for PAL 50 Hz interlaced modes that holds me back for the moment.

redcatex:
If you're about trying LMH1981, I think this type of adapter would make life easier when soldering.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-4-SOP14-SS ... 3175268216


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:16 pm 



Joined: 09 Jun 2018
Posts: 15
@jblander yes ssop adapter would be helpful, but soldering direct for me is not a problem. Bigger problem is price of seperator itself, its not like lm which you can get a lot for few dollars

Edit. Btw already started prototyping a manual control with oled display in proteus. All my hw is back at hometown, so I have to simulate arduino and oled. So far so good. Started design a menu and program functionality, created few pull up buttons over 1 analog input.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:32 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 426
Oh yeah, definitely try minimizing additional wires at all cost!

The need to solder stuff is, in my opinion, the biggest issue that holds back more people from using this project.
People can excuse adapters and bare PCB (mostly), but soldering is too much.

And well, I honestly consider an entire wire per button a huge waste as well ;p

Small update:
I was working on more debug bus features. One of the extra modes puts a digital representation of the output video onto the bus.
The result: There'll be an auto gain feature again. It'll automatically find the correct ADC gain for each different source :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:16 pm 



Joined: 09 Jun 2018
Posts: 15
@rama yeah using whole input for one button is a waste for sure, and esp only have one analog pin. so using resistors is the only way to have this feature.

On the other hand regarding wires and all that stuff, still my board is heavily missing components, cause was using my own headers, just to create addon board, later on thinking to create PCB with all stuff in one place, which plugs into headers, and that's it, user plugs in esp8266, flash it and it's done. The idea is like a daughter board, ofc to have daughterboard you need to solder everything in place, but I think it's easier if I will share PCB design and users can just ask someone skilled to do everything and just plug to GBS. maybe that way your work + ease of hardware preparation will get more attention. Cause gbs-control is a solid piece, and I can imagine all the effort and time you put on it. Plus I suppose upgrading previous guys work, and sharing it with the world is not that you want to keep it for yourself.

Sorry if my thoughts are hard to understand. :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:23 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 73
How can I find the correct http gbscontrol address once I'm connected to my local network.
I can find the ip address on my box network status page, but I have to look out each time in case the address changes.
I get 403 forbidden if I just use http://gbscontrol


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:59 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 426
If you're lucky, your router provides some kind of lookup service. On mine, the device replies for "http://gbscontrol.fritz.box/".
I also added some mDNS stubs, which is the only other way I know for this to work as expected.
MDNS requires some extra software on Windows to work (and something else on each other OS).
People recommend Apple's Bonjour or iTunes (apparently?), but the pure printer discovery drivers do the job as well:
https://support.apple.com/kb/DL999?viewlocale=en_US

With that installed, you can now use "http://gbscontrol.local/" and the device will respond.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:51 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 73
Thank you Rama, that worked fine.

I did some tests.

First, on a Mitsubishi XC3730C aka Megaview. The monitor is multiformat and able to display a very wide range of resolution, including 15khz range. MD2 with NTSC crystal running at 60hz.
1st test is 1280x1024 with scanlines. Looks very clean. Small defaults, changing back and forth between 320 and 256 wide can result in a resync attempt from the monitor (rare occurences) ; 256 wide res is also a bit higher, see 2nd pic.
Image
Image

Then tested Sync passthrough, it worked, you can see the size of OSD corresponding when 15khz content is displayed. However the image is completely shifted to the left, I had to push Hphase to the max. I also had some sync jumps every 5-10s.
Image

Second, test on a JVC DT-V 1710, it's also multiformat, but it's much less flexible in the higher resolutions. The advantage over multiformat PVMs / BVMs is that the RGB card allows RGBHV input so a simple VGA-BNC can be used. The monitor serie is known to have skewed upper image with malformed sync (MVS can be seen, direct to monitor, apparently PCEngine is pretty much unusable).
Image

Note that the MVS is currently under consolization, using non shielded thin wire ; there's color bleed on right side of objects and the GBS amplifies that defect by a huge factor, do not use these for quality rating. The MD above has a good cable and comes excellent.


640x480 worked ok, but my focus was on sync passthrough. It had a bit of trouble syncing put at some point it managed to. Image was a bit on the left side but not as much as with the XC3730.
Image

There was some sync jumps every 6-8s, managed to capture one, as you can see it's an horizontal rolling.
Image

However the big new is that the upper skew is actually gone, moved the image on monitor controls and you can see the upper right corner is perfectly straight.
Image

If the sync can be secured it would be great news for the various upper skew troubles.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:17 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 426
These are some nice test results!

The shift towards the left in passthrough mode is from me guessing where HSync should be placed.
My scope can't resolve an entire field with enough detail to see the relations.
Anyway, the fix is to just move the recovered HSync position. Now that I know, I can fix it :)

Mega Drive's mode changes are drastic retiming. This is the console itself doing something pretty bad.
The horizontal sync width for example changes by 30%! I suppose TV sync processors are more robust?
I use this switch myself, to optimize for worst case timing changes.
However, no amount of coasting or glitch protection seems to stabilize an MD mode change.
I'm always working on improvements though, so fingers crossed :)

By the way, you need to optimize your sync connection for each console as well.
Ideally, you'll have 75 Ohm terminated CSYNC with > 0.3Vpp (but less than ~ 3.6Vpp) amplitude.
An LM1881 type sync stripper is a good alternative, but here the input needs to be within 0.5Vpp and 2.0Vpp while the output has the same requirements as before.

As a small test, type these commands and see if sync is stable across the range:
wsog 1
wsog 16
wsog 31
The range is 0 to 31.
If you can go to 31 without issue, you have good CSYNC.
If it's stable until you hit ~16, you have properly terminated video as sync source (Luma or Composite Video).
But if you're stuck at very low levels, then check your setup! Your sync tip is very weak, probably because the termination is wrong (or Mega Drive's weak CSYNC).


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:36 am 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 73
I tend to use Luma as Sync, by either rewiring console composite pin, or using luma if directly available on the avout, that way the cables are still universal and preventing accidents (ie, euro SNES with 12v on Csync pin), and signal is still in specs without a noisy 3/4mhz subcarrier. The GBS has an LM1881 circuit either way.

Will try the wsog command later when I have time.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:16 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 426
Luma sync to an LM1881 is a very good choice.
Just make sure the LM1881 input termination is right (75 Ohm), and that it's being fed 5V.
Unfortunately, there's no reliable 5V source on GBS boards, but the 3.3V will work okay.
With just 3.3V, the output CSYNC will have slow flanks, but the GBS can still work well with that.

At 3.3V you also won't need an output series resistor.
At 5V (and up to ~8V max), a 470 Ohm series resistor needs to be added, to form a voltage divider into the scaler chip.

By the way, I'm currently working on ironing out sync issues.
Check the development branch. It might fix some issues, it might make them worse :p


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:56 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 73
no worries about 5V, all boards and the LM are supplied with 5V.
Added the 470R and checked wsog command, only wsog 1 had unstable, up/down display. Gonna try dev branch now.
OK so passthrough is still too much on the left, however I haven't yet seen a horizontal roll and 320 / 256 transitions are instant, at least the mitsubishi doesn't resync at all (OSD popups on resync so it's very obvious if it happens).
Now to try the DT-V

DT-V works perfectly with MD, no jumps, no rollings. MVS had no rolling, but there was some flicker going around every 2-5s. Also for some reason picture was near perfect with no bleeding, may I had a bad connection last time (or did you apply some magic ?).

One thing I forgot to try is MD with SMS games, known to produce upper skew, gonna try that.

WAIT !
After about 20-30s, display stabilizes on the DT-V ! Image is perfect asides from horizontal position, no bleeding, no skew, AMAZING.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:16 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 426
Ryoandr wrote:
All boards and the LM are supplied with 5V.
Added the 470R and checked wsog command, only wsog 1 had unstable, up/down display.

Perfect, same as my setup! (important to me, I need to aim for consistency across setups)

Ryoandr wrote:
OK so passthrough is still too much on the left

I haven't pushed my changes on that yet. Keep watching the branch ;)

Ryoandr wrote:
I haven't yet seen a horizontal roll and 320 / 256 transitions are instant

Well, these keep cropping up. It seems I can't get sudden clock skews fully stable.
Oddly enough, progressive / interlace switches are less of an issue than horizontal timing changes.
I wonder how devices like the OSSC deal with them..

Don't hold your breath for that fixed DT-V display (yet). It might be a fluke that it worked, it might get broken by my next commit (huge one).
I hope it'll be fine, of course ;p


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