GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

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MikeIronFist
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by MikeIronFist »

mutmut02 wrote:Hi ! I l must first admit I have not been through the whole topic as it's now quite long, and I have not found the answer on Github.

Could the GBS control be able to downscale 720p or 1080p coming from a PS4 to 15Khz in order to use this system on a consumer CRT, using a Tendak Active 1080P Female HDMI to VGA Male Converter ?
Downscaling is for 480p and 480i only, so you could do it! But you would need to set your PS4's output to 480p mode first. Also bear in mind that the downscale outputs at 240p, not 480i, so small text in some games may be hard or even impossible to read.

In terms of getting PS4 signal into the GBS, the VGA converter will probably work, but if you run into any trouble, try an HDMI-to-Component converter instead.

In terms of output, the GBS board only has a VGA output by default, and with GBS control, you have two output options: RGBHV output (VGA) or Component (YPbPr) that you can toggle in the Web UI. I recommend using the Component output, because it's easy to get a DSUB-to-RCA adapter or make your own and you won't need a sync combiner. If you want analog RGB output, you will need a sync combiner.
MikeIronFist
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by MikeIronFist »

Gollot wrote:Hello i'm about to build mine and i have a couple of questions, first i'm going to print this 3D Shell https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3459749 Should i do the one with buttons? I mean are the buttons usable after you install the cfW?
The buttons don't do anything when using the current version of GBS control, so you could get the button-less case and not lose any functionality.
Another question, is also recomendable to use a on/off switch? is there any risk of damaging it from just unplugging the unit to turn it off?
No more risk than any other basic electronic device but generally speaking, a switch is always preferable to plugging/unplugging for both the safety of the device and for longevity. My power cable has an inline switch so I can turn the board on and off without unplugging anything. Reduces physical wear on the system ;)

In fact, I actually power the whole thing from the MicroUSB port of the ESP8266 board using a 5v 2a USB power adapter. Vin and Ground on the ESP8266 board are soldered to the + and - wires of the lil 2 pin power adapter that comes with the board. Micro USB cable has a push button for power. Works just fine.
And the last question is about this video that i'm using as a guide,

https://youtu.be/ZftKgnI0gvM?t=748 on this video (Minute 12:28) Is safe to wire the power source of an active HDMI to VGA converter directly on the board? I mean it would cause any kind of interference or noise on the image?

Thanks for your time.
It's safe assuming you do a good, clean solder job that prevents the power connections from shorting to anything but in my experience it didn't provide especially stable results, there was interference and wobbliness with my power supplies I tested, and I didn't get those issues when powering the vga-to-hdmi separately. It wouldn't hurt to try it and see if it works with your setup, just bear in mind that standard USB power is 5v; don't use a power supply greater than 5 volts for your GBS board if you're integrating the vga-to-hdmi adapter's power like this.
Last edited by MikeIronFist on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MikeIronFist
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by MikeIronFist »

gingerbeardman wrote:
MikeIronFist wrote:if you had a script that turned off your VGA output from your PC (let's say temporarily even, like for 5 seconds) you could turn on a component console, run the script and the GBS would go to No Signal mode, then detect the sync from the Component signal and switch to Component input.
I'll see if I can set that up, but it seems as if it would only be a one way solution? I would have to turn off the console to get back to PC? This is a problem when streaming :)
Or you'd have to unplug the green cable from your component input. and leave it unplugged for a lil bit so the board could switch to VGA. If you have a simple component video switcher, you could also just run your consoles into that, and switch away from the input that's currently sending a signal to the board.

I think the absolute best solution for this situation would probably be to just build another GBS Control board if you can manage to get the supplies, configure it with different network settings and then just use a passive VGA switcher for your monitor. Hopefully wouldn't be too expensive. Or for your PC, maybe use a different adapter to VGA and run native 640x480 on that output instead of trying to squish down these higher resolutions. Maybe even keep using the Extron just for your PC and use the GBS for your consoles.

What's the reason for running 1600x1200 if you're crunching it down to 640x480, btw? No judgments, just curious.
gingerbeardman wrote: Depending on the input resolution, I have to do auto adjust to get the correct phase/clock/horiz/vertical on my monitor (actually TV PC/VGA input).

My expectations were that if I am always uing the same downscaled output resolution (480p) then I should not have to adjust the monitor for each input resolution. This is how the Extron works.
It sounds to me like the Extron is designed specifically to be versatile at downscaling and outputting a standardized signal; GBS Control has to adjust the output timings slightly to (somewhat) match the input timings and reduce tearing; if you have Active Frame Time Lock enabled, it's going to adjust the output timings very aggressively, which can have messy results on displays that are stubborn about switching display modes. If you have Active Frame Time Lock enabled, try switching methods or disabling it. If it's not enabled, try the "Lock to 50/60 Hz" option in the Development options to see if that has any effect. You could also try adjusting Htotal and see if THAT does anything; as far as I can tell, Htotal adjustments are usually saved with a preset, but I could be wrong.


As for your issues with those higher resolutions misbehaving, maybe you could try adjusting Htotal and see if that tames things there? Increasing or decreasing it might stabilize the picture. GBS Control in general is best at upscaling RGBs and Component, I've found incompatibilities more with high resolution VGA signals.
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gingerbeardman
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by gingerbeardman »

Thanks for all this. Sadly none of those suggestions made a difference.

I crunch 1280x960 and 1600x1200 down to 640x480 for cheap/free Supersampling SSAA when playing some PC games and emulators. It's a great improvement over native 640x480.

As things stand I will likely relegate the GBS, using it only for 240p, and go back to using my Extron for everything else. That's the more user friendly approach for me.

I'll be sure to keep an eye on this thread for future GBS-Control developments.
TheDrifter363
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by TheDrifter363 »

rama wrote:For the speckles in 480i, try different SDRAM speeds (development > Cycle SDRAM Clock Speed).
Is this definitely an NTSC source, or PAL?
Hey Rama just wanted to say that definitely helped. Thanks! I increased SDRAM to 185 MHz. Any downsides? Everything's NTSC here. This seems to apply for all resolutions and input sources.
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Gollot
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Gollot »

MikeIronFist wrote:
Gollot wrote:Hello i'm about to build mine and i have a couple of questions, first i'm going to print this 3D Shell https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3459749 Should i do the one with buttons? I mean are the buttons usable after you install the cfW?
The buttons don't do anything when using the current version of GBS control, so you could get the button-less case and not lose any functionality.
Another question, is also recomendable to use a on/off switch? is there any risk of damaging it from just unplugging the unit to turn it off?
No more risk than any other basic electronic device but generally speaking, a switch is always preferable to plugging/unplugging for both the safety of the device and for longevity. My power cable has an inline switch so I can turn the board on and off without unplugging anything. Reduces physical wear on the system ;)

In fact, I actually power the whole thing from the MicroUSB port of the ESP8266 board using a 5v 2a USB power adapter. Vin and Ground on the ESP8266 board are soldered to the + and - wires of the lil 2 pin power adapter that comes with the board. Micro USB cable has a push button for power. Works just fine.
And the last question is about this video that i'm using as a guide,

https://youtu.be/ZftKgnI0gvM?t=748 on this video (Minute 12:28) Is safe to wire the power source of an active HDMI to VGA converter directly on the board? I mean it would cause any kind of interference or noise on the image?

Thanks for your time.
It's safe assuming you do a good, clean solder job that prevents the power connections from shorting to anything but in my experience it didn't provide especially stable results, there was interference and wobbliness with my power supplies I tested, and I didn't get those issues when powering the vga-to-hdmi separately. It wouldn't hurt to try it and see if it works with your setup, just bear in mind that standard USB power is 5v; don't use a power supply greater than 5 volts for your GBS board if you're integrating the vga-to-hdmi adapter's power like this.
Thanks a lot!
rama
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Thanks MikeIronFist for picking up my slack and replying to everyone! :)

I picked up that the Component Output option is being recommended. Please keep in mind that it requires a mod to R26 for correct video levels.
The mod is described in the first post in this thread. Dooklink figured this out 6 years ago :p
(Component Video Sync Levels)

The speckles in all presets hint at a RAM chip that isn't compatible with the timings I choose.
Could you share a picture of your board (particularly the SDRAM chip on it), TheDrifter363?
You can use the 185 Mhz option, but it is overclocking the RAM a bit. It shouldn't damage anything though.
dentnz
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by dentnz »

An update from me regarding the downscaling functionality.

Pleased with the results of downscaling component, particularly 480p and 480i (motion adaptive looks nice, albeit with some added lag). No dramas there. Wii (480i/p) and Xbox 360 all look great.

What I have also been experimenting with is downscaling higher resolution content, e.g Retroarch via an old Macbook Pro... I've finally found a use for my dear old Extron DVS304! It can take quite a large resolution (unfortunately not 1080p, but still decent), scale it down to 480p and combine the sync on the way out. With the 100ohm resister over the ground and sync pins of the GBS (to support RGBS), it's then possible to downscale the 480p image to 240p with GBS control.

Now, in some cases this looks like a complete mess, but I have found a weird thing with the Extron that seems to help. By setting my Mac's VGA to a 800x600 odd size image, selecting a integer scale for the game in retroarch, going into full screen mode and then pressing AUTO IMAGE on the Extron, boom, it will correctly size around the image. In a lot of cases, it looks pixel perfect as far as I can tell.

The question is of course, how much lag is this process adding? I am not entirely sure what the lag is on the GBS when downscaling, and I suspect the Extron is at least 1 frame (based on upscaling and being able to crop a frame like it seems to be doing).

Anyway, I'll keep playing and aim to upload some pics some time with further testing! Thanks again for this awesome project.
ulfrinn
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by ulfrinn »

Cool thread. I just joined this board because of it. I am working on a GBS-Control project of my own. I am just waiting on a couple supplies (jumper cables mostly) and I will be able to put that aspect of it together. My other plans for the board is to desolder the 8-in header, and solder in taller, Arduino style headers which happen to have the same pin spacing. Having a setup I can unplug and jumper into will make it a lot easier to fix issues with the signal as I can wire the RGBS signals into a mini bread board, jumper those out to the GBS-8200, and add any of the components I need onto the board to find what works.

My main goal is to have a DB9 connector that'll take the RGBS signal plus audio into the board, make up some custom console to DB9 cables, and take the PCB out of my VGA to HDMI converter, wire that to a connector that fits that 12-pin VGA connector (no idea where to find that connector though), and then pack it up in a case as a completed solution.

I was also looking at some other mods for these boards I have seen floating around. And I may try those as well, such as bridging the potentiometers (or maybe wire them to external potentiometers on the case), replacing some of the capacitors, etc.
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kitty666cats
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by kitty666cats »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hg9IyMRA1A

Here's a video of that eBay guy using GBScontrol with no metion of where the control app originated. I think he has an older video in the eBay listings, but this one's on their YouTube. Such a shame not giving any credit...
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gingerbeardman
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by gingerbeardman »

@dentnz you seem to have the same gear as me (Extrom DVS 304, fwiw mine is DVI version) so I'm interested to see what your final solution is.

In my experience of downscaling Extron is <2 frames and GBS is <1. I'd like to replace the Extron with the GBS but that's not feasible right now, so I'm considering the best way to combine the two.

@rama the R26 mod for Component Sync Levels is not listed on the Wiki so I was not aware of this. https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-contro ... od-Library
Last edited by gingerbeardman on Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gunstar
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Gunstar »

@gingerbeardman Bob clocked the downscaling of 480p to 240p at half a frame of lag on the GBS. No mention of 480i though.
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gingerbeardman
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by gingerbeardman »

@Gunstar good spot! Meant to say "less than" in my text above. Now edited.

I only have 240p test so my results are ball park compared to Bob's setup.
MikeIronFist
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by MikeIronFist »

rama wrote:Thanks MikeIronFist for picking up my slack and replying to everyone! :)

I picked up that the Component Output option is being recommended. Please keep in mind that it requires a mod to R26 for correct video levels.
The mod is described in the first post in this thread. Dooklink figured this out 6 years ago :p
(Component Video Sync Levels)
Glad to help! I'll keep that note about R26 in mind.
ulfrinn wrote: My main goal is to have a DB9 connector that'll take the RGBS signal plus audio into the board, make up some custom console to DB9 cables, and take the PCB out of my VGA to HDMI converter, wire that to a connector that fits that 12-pin VGA connector (no idea where to find that connector though), and then pack it up in a case as a completed solution.
Just bear in mind that the GBS board does not take audio signals *at all*. In a VGA-to-HDMI setup, you simply route the console's audio signal straight to the 3.5mm audio input on the HDMI adapter.
MikeIronFist
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by MikeIronFist »

For anyone who has done the Clock Generator install or knows how it works: is there any downside to just using the 3.3v power from the GBS board straight into the Vin on the Clock Gen board? I'd like to try placing the clock generator somewhere other than the top of the scaler heatsink.
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NoAffinity
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by NoAffinity »

ulfrinn wrote:that 12-pin VGA connector (no idea where to find that connector though)
#Aliexpress US $1.38 8%OFF | 10pcs Micro JST Mini 2.0 PH 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/12-Pin Connector Plug with Wires Cables 200MM 26AWG
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dTkqSU6

^@mikeironfist yes there is a downside. Just wire it as shown in many pictures within the thread, and first demonstrated by rama.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
MikeIronFist
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by MikeIronFist »

NoAffinity wrote: ^@mikeironfist yes there is a downside. Just wire it as shown in many pictures within the thread, and first demonstrated by rama.
Would you care to elaborate on what problems arise from using the 3.3v source and Vin?

EDIT: Nevermind, searched your posts to see if you'd been over this before. Found this:
NoAffinity wrote:Clock gen board power input location recently discussed. It avoids on board regulation and the recommended location is best to ensure no difference in potential.
Thanks!
RGB0b
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by RGB0b »

Just a warning, I also just got bags of metal instead of GBS8200's from the eBay seller syhy59: https://www.ebay.com/itm/402292439401

I left negative feedback and processed a return, but they keep emailing me to remove the feedback. Here's what their latest email said:
From your feedback,I know that you are not satisfied with the item. I am so sorry for that. I think I can give you money back, and you can just keep that item for compensation.
LMFAO @ "just keep that item for compensation".

What do you all think? Remove the negative feedback, cause maybe it's an honest mistake...and if it is a scam, they'll just close the account and start another scam account anyway? Leave it to warn people? Either way, I've heard a bunch of different people talk about getting bolts instead of a gbs and people should know about it.

Full-sized: https://i.imgur.com/4xfhSUR.jpg
Image
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Gunstar
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Gunstar »

@retrorgb - Leave it up. It has got to be the same dude/company with multiple accounts on eBay. A bunch of us got these things but got refunded, there was maybe one seller who had positive feedback for selling cheap-ish GBS but as rama and maxtherabbit said it's not worth the hassle.

Wait, he charged you $23.29? Sounds like they've not refunded you yet, if they're holding your refund ransom agree to remove it after they've refunded you and then leave the negative feedback up lol
Last edited by Gunstar on Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kez
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Kez »

I think the bad feedback is deserved, however I am unsure of the mechanisms of this as a scam. This seems more like a computing error or something, like the item description/photos got mixed up with some other item in the stock database. I would guess that all of these listings are coming from one larger organization or supplier that is providing stock for sale on eBay at enormous scales.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by maxtherabbit »

retrorgb wrote:Just a warning, I also just got bags of metal instead of GBS8200's from the eBay seller syhy59: https://www.ebay.com/itm/402292439401

I left negative feedback and processed a return, but they keep emailing me to remove the feedback. Here's what their latest email said:
From your feedback,I know that you are not satisfied with the item. I am so sorry for that. I think I can give you money back, and you can just keep that item for compensation.
LMFAO @ "just keep that item for compensation".

What do you all think? Remove the negative feedback, cause maybe it's an honest mistake...and if it is a scam, they'll just close the account and start another scam account anyway? Leave it to warn people? Either way, I've heard a bunch of different people talk about getting bolts instead of a gbs and people should know about it.

Full-sized: https://i.imgur.com/4xfhSUR.jpg
Image
it's not a mistake at all, the same scammers sent the same metal rods to a rash of people on r3 discord who tried to buy a GBS
hellbelly
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by hellbelly »

The confusing thing is, the category on eBay is archery, part of me wonders if it’s a scam or a mixup with some automated way of uploading mass listings and some fields got transposed. I don’t know about archery to recognise of those metal tubes are archery supplies!
MikeIronFist
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by MikeIronFist »

retrorgb wrote:Just a warning, I also just got bags of metal instead of GBS8200's from the eBay seller syhy59: https://www.ebay.com/itm/402292439401

I left negative feedback and processed a return, but they keep emailing me to remove the feedback. Here's what their latest email said:
From your feedback,I know that you are not satisfied with the item. I am so sorry for that. I think I can give you money back, and you can just keep that item for compensation.
LMFAO @ "just keep that item for compensation".

What do you all think? Remove the negative feedback, cause maybe it's an honest mistake...and if it is a scam, they'll just close the account and start another scam account anyway? Leave it to warn people? Either way, I've heard a bunch of different people talk about getting bolts instead of a gbs and people should know about it.
Honestly, you're the second or third person I've seen this happen to, so even if it's an honest mistake then at BEST it's immense incompetence and irresponsibility on the seller's part, because it keeps happening. Even with all the benefit of the doubt in the world, they're literally ignoring your problem and they don't seem to understand or care that they sent you some random garbage that's probably worth like $7 at best.

I think it's best if you can help other buyers avoid this sort of hell, so I say leave the feedback up. If it really is just a mistake they keep making, and they refuse to listen to what the problem is and refuse to learn or fix their system... the only winning move left is not to play and to make sure other people avoid them too.

EDIT: Looks like they've removed the listing. Ebay says that it was taken down due to "an error in the listing." Hmmmm.
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kitty666cats
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by kitty666cats »

Is there anybody who makes/sells DE-15 to 4BNC cables with a sync combining circuit built into the DE-15/HD-15/'VGA' hood? I've got an Extron RGB interface, but my ever-changing setup has got to the point where my only particular purpose for one of those is sync combining. My hand tremors are so damn bad, dealing with these teensy VGA connectors is rough @_@
MikeIronFist
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by MikeIronFist »

EDIT: So I had to dig to find an answer for this, but yes, the debug pin is absolutely necessary to use the clock generator.

Rama responding to an issue with cryptblood1986 getting an issue where the log reads:

Code: Select all

sync skipped sfr wrong: 0.00
(which means either the debug pin or pin 40 of the scaler chip is not connected properly):
rama wrote: The installation looked correct, but the logs say that there is a problem measuring the source frame rate.
I think you should check your debug pin wire.
Also make sure to use a regular scaling mode, with a SCART or YPbPr source (not pure H+V RGB, which is being bypassed anyway).
The software is ready to work with the clock generator, as long as you always use the latest version.
Everything required is included, nothing needs to be adjusted.
Last edited by MikeIronFist on Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
dentnz
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by dentnz »

@kitty666cats The circuit here is reasonably easy to assemble:

https://www.retrorgb.com/building-a-pas ... biner.html

(thanks @retrorgb! you should add this circuit to the main documentation areas of your site)

I used an old AV cable to make mine. I am a complete novice at soldering, and so long as you use a nice clamp or something to hold things steady, you should be alright. I already had a vga to 5 bnc cable already, so I just put the H and V into the new cable, and it comes out composite sync.
dentnz
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by dentnz »

Does anyone have any recommendations for HDMI to Component for downscaling? Would a straight HDMI to Component Cable suffice if the input signal is 480p? Or do we need to take other things into consideration here? I plan on passing 640x480@60hz which should be fine via the GBS component input, right?
leonk
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by leonk »

I’m must not be getting it but how does one know from the web browser if a certain function is on or off? Is dark on or is it light color on the button on?
MikeIronFist
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by MikeIronFist »

dentnz wrote:Does anyone have any recommendations for HDMI to Component for downscaling? Would a straight HDMI to Component Cable suffice if the input signal is 480p? Or do we need to take other things into consideration here? I plan on passing 640x480@60hz which should be fine via the GBS component input, right?
I haven't tried anything in a cable formfactor, but I've had excellent results with this simple HDMI-to-Component box I got off of Amazon, I power it with a DC-barrel-to-USB cable, getting power from a USB port on the back of my Xbox 360.

I've tried both 720x480 from my Nintendo Switch and 640x480 from my PC, both work perfectly fine.
The Steam version of Sonic CD even displays with the correct aspect ratio in this mode. :)

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gingerbeardman
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by gingerbeardman »

leonk wrote:I’m must not be getting it but how does one know from the web browser if a certain function is on or off? Is dark on or is it light color on the button on?
Currently the highlight stays on the button after it has been clicked and it's the same dark colour as the selected state. Confusing? Yes.

The workaround is to tap the tab you are on to refresh the page and show the correct button states.

There's a new web UI in the works (by me) which will not suffer from this issue.
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