GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

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rama
Posts: 1373
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:15 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Yeah, this was a good idea.
The driver works here, and CSync wasn't an issue either.
Right out of the box, most 50Hz CSync / scaling preset modes have tons of issues with clamping and such.
This doesn't happen on any console, but with these timings, it's a big mess.

Not sure if I can get this working. It'll be lots of work.
SuperSpongo
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:49 pm
Location: Germany

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by SuperSpongo »

Glad that it'll be of use :D

Out of curiosity, how did you enable CSYNC? Is it an option from the custom driver in Windows XP?
rama
Posts: 1373
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:15 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Good news: The bad glitches were an easy fix. Just had to turn the auto sync polarity option back on :)

The latest tool set for the 2.0 driver has the CSync option. It works with the 1.2 driver.
Oddly though, it looks like the driver inverts the sync polarity from what was requested.
Voland
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:35 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Voland »

rama wrote:Good news: The bad glitches were an easy fix. Just had to turn the auto sync polarity option back on :)
I checked the new firmware:

1). Computer MS0511 (UKNC).
The situation has worsened. Now even in 640x480 mode, the image does not fit horizontally. Scaling buttons -> Vertical +/- for the 640x480 mode become completely inoperable.

2). Computer Союз-Неон.
The adapter can now see the sync signal, and even once displayed a static image for 10 seconds (one captured frame), but could not repeat it again. I attach the log, maybe it will help to understand the problem:
Spoiler
lost..
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
lost..
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
lost..
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
lost..
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Restart
!*Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
*!*.*!*.*!**!*.*!**!**!**!*..*!**!**!**!*.*!*.*!*.*!**!**!**!**!*<reset>
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
lost..

no sync found
input detect mode
<reset>
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
SOG level: 7
RGBS
.*!*Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
*!*.*!**!**!*.*!**!**!**!**!*<reset>
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
SOG level: 8
RGBS
..*.*New Input
60Hz
pal forced 60hz: apply vshift
post preset done (preset id: 4)
.*!*Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
*!**!**!*.*!*.*!**!**!*.*!**!**!*..*!*.*!*.*!**!**!**!**!*<reset>

no sync found
input detect mode
<reset>
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
SOG level: 7
RGBS
.New Input
60Hz
pal forced 60hz: apply vshift
post preset done (preset id: 4)
.*!*Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
*!*..*!*..*!*.*!**!*..*!**!*.*!*..*!*.*!*.*!*..*!**!**!*..*!*.*!*.*!**!**!**!**!*<reset>
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
lost..
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
lost..
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
lost..
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
lost..
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
lost..
found: 5 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1
Auto SOG: retry #1
Auto SOG: retry #2
Auto SOG: retry #3
SOG level: 1
lost..
rama
Posts: 1373
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:15 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Okay, no problem.
The auto polarity option should be enabled in any case. There may be an issue later, that causes the new issue in 640x480.
Somehow the chip has like 4 different sync polarity switches, and of course, there is no documentation on it. I have to guess everything.

The Soyus is still the same. The chip doesn't recognize the video. This is probably because the vline count is so different from PAL.
I think you said it was 300 lines? PAL has 312.5 lines per frame.
With my new crtemudriver setup, I can simulate this, I think.
Voland
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:35 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Voland »

rama wrote:The auto polarity option should be enabled in any case.
And now how to turn it off in the firmware, so that at least in 640x480 mode the frame is placed in the video window?
rama wrote:This is probably because the vline count is so different from PAL. I think you said it was 300 lines? PAL has 312.5 lines per frame.
That's right, Union-Neon uses 300 lines. This, in fact, does not contradict the television standard: it is just normally used for blanking 24.5 lines, and for Soyuz-neon, the blanking interval is reduced to 12.5 lines. That is, 12 invisible lines made visible. To see them, you should reduce the time-out, which matching to the period of extinction of the frame in the electron-beam CRT.

If I connect the sync signal to the sound card input and record it in a wav-file at 44 kHz, this file will help you to understand the problem?
rama
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:15 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Check the changes made in the commit that toggle the sync polarity bit. Just undo it in your copy and upload.

PAL and PAL-like are 312.5 total lines (HSyncs) per field, for a total of 625 lines per frame.
The device can use those lines however it likes.
It's no problem to make more or less of them visible, as long as the total line count is the same.
You can try recording the sync signal, then checking it in a wav editor.
If it's possible to count the HSync between 2 VSync's, then it's useful.
Voland
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:35 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Voland »

rama wrote:You can try recording the sync signal, then checking it in a wav editor.
If it's possible to count the HSync between 2 VSync's, then it's useful.
I recorded the synchronization in a wav file, you can download it here: https://transfiles.ru/6j5dy

I do not know how to calculate what you wrote about, but in the editor the recorded signal looks like this:
https://ibb.co/zRytWJM
https://ibb.co/WnyxsVv
rama
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Ugh, well, someone will have to count the falling flanks between 2 VSync's. It should be 312 for PAL and if it's significantly more or less, it won't be detected as PAL.
But I'm pretty sure it is around 312 anyway, and the issue is just something else.
There's just countless things a video signal can do wrong with this scaler.
Voland
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:35 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Voland »

rama wrote:But I'm pretty sure it is around 312 anyway, and the issue is just something else.
There's just countless things a video signal can do wrong with this scaler.
I counted, the quantity corresponds to 312 (with an accuracy of 5 pieces).
Eh, of course, apparently there is no hope and will have to buy an expensive framemeister.
Shiver_169
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:27 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Shiver_169 »

With the recently updates of the hardware modifications add substitute capacitors in the Sync Line (1nF) . I apply this changes but my setup have a Sync Stripper but whit this modification can remove this Sync Stripper but I dont know how to connect the sync to 100 ohm resitor to ground, according to what is mentioned in the Wiki. I dont know if connect the 100 ohms resistor in the sync line before the GBS sync is enough? You can guide me how is this connection. I would also like to maintain a Sync Stripper to keep the synchronization cleaner or when it comes from composite. The question is whether this is convenient? and if so, how would the connection have a 2-way switch for the selection of the type of synchrony?.

Additionally I want to comment that I ruined a GBS 8200 V4 with black buttons at the time of wanting to change the Capacitors and without wanting to remove a capacitor that was on the side, I already bought a new GBS 8200 this time they sent me the version of 2017 with yellow buttons and with the acquired experience I could make the modification without major problem. I would like you to tell me what are the values of all the capacitors in this area, since someone could have the same problem as me and maybe I could repair it if I had the value of those capacitors could do something but without knowing the values is something complicated.. Also a video in the Wiki of the correct procedure would be appreciated to make this modification since it seems simple but given the little space that is had to work the work is complicated enough.

Thanks for your help.
rama
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Shiver_169:
Most SMD capacitors in the area are 100nF.
I realize that the modification is difficult, especially for someone inexperienced with fine soldering.
But alas, this is how the boards are shipped. I can't help it :/

Would it be easier to cut the sync input lines, then add 1nF in series? I'm not sure if that works though.
It creates 2 series capacitances, which makes the total series value around 0.85nF or so.

Once the sync input capacitors are replaced, you can remove the sync stripper.
You can keep it as well, slightly reducing jitter performance. But it will still work.

Nothing changes with regards to the 100Ohm resistor, whether with or without sync stripper or replaced capacitors.
(IE: You still need it.)
Voland
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Voland »

rama wrote:Most SMD capacitors in the area are 100nF.
For my case there is a sense of installing additional capacitors on sync signal?
rama
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

No? Why would there be?
Shiver_169
Posts: 40
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Shiver_169 »

rama wrote:Shiver_169:
Most SMD capacitors in the area are 100nF.
I realize that the modification is difficult, especially for someone inexperienced with fine soldering.
But alas, this is how the boards are shipped. I can't help it :/

Would it be easier to cut the sync input lines, then add 1nF in series? I'm not sure if that works though.
It creates 2 series capacitances, which makes the total series value around 0.85nF or so.

Once the sync input capacitors are replaced, you can remove the sync stripper.
You can keep it as well, slightly reducing jitter performance. But it will still work.

Nothing changes with regards to the 100Ohm resistor, whether with or without sync stripper or replaced capacitors.
(IE: You still need it.)
Ok my Sync Stripper have a 470 ohms resistor on the Synchronization output line of this, but if reducing jitter performance I prefer remove it. In this case I dont know how connect the 100 ohm resistor to the sync line please a diagram or photo would be helpful to understand this conection.
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NoAffinity
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Location: Escondido, CA, USA

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by NoAffinity »

Through hole 100 ohm between ground and sync pins, on the solder side of p3. You can also do one on p11 if you will be inputting rgbs on p11, but beware it will screw up rgbhv input via p11 or the hd-15 input. But, it's also easy to lift either leg of the resistor if you need it out of circuit.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Voland
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:35 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Voland »

I purchased GBS with HDMI output. Checked with factory firmware:
1. MC0511 fits in the frame from all sides, even in 1366x768 mode.
2. Soyuz-Neon shows an almost stable videopicture, if the sync signal is passed through a 100 Ohm resistor in series.

Then I installed the GBS-CONTROL firmware:
1. MC0511 ceased to fit into the frame even in 640x480 mode ( "Scaling buttons -> Vertical –" - does not work).
2. The videopicture from Soyuz-Neon goes to the monitor, but twitches very much and the resistor does not change anything.
rama
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Via terminal, try sending these commands to vary some sync separation parameters:
s5s38sxx << xx from 03 to 12
s5s39sxx << xx from 03 to 12
s5s37sxx << xx from 04 to 70

The 37 register (ignore pulses shorter than xx) often slots into a different mode at around 40.
Voland
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Voland »

rama wrote:Via terminal, try sending these commands to vary some sync separation parameters:
s5s38sxx << xx from 03 to 12
s5s39sxx << xx from 03 to 12
s5s37sxx << xx from 04 to 70

The 37 register (ignore pulses shorter than xx) often slots into a different mode at around 40.
I tried all three commands with all possible values, an example of sending to the com-port:
s5s38sxx << 12

In each case, the team influenced the result, although for some reason it was accompanied by the message "unknown command".

The best result I could achieve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dMw1hVBKBM

The situation remains sad for me ((
rama
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

I'm currently on a different project, just so you guys know (there won't be updates for a while longer).
Though I do plan to continue here when I'm done. So just a heads up ;)

Voland:
Try the jitter sync filter: t5t20t4

Or try HSync coasting: t5t55t7 t5t3et5
(You probably want to disable syncwatcher in the web ui first. Coasting may break sync totally, or it may fix it.)
Voland
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:35 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Voland »

rama wrote:Try the jitter sync filter: t5t20t4
Or try HSync coasting: t5t55t7 t5t3et5
(You probably want to disable syncwatcher in the web ui first. Coasting may break sync totally, or it may fix it.)
Alas, none of this has given significant changes.
rama
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

If nothing of these helps, there is an issue with the sync signal itself.
Voland
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by Voland »

rama wrote:If nothing of these helps, there is an issue with the sync signal itself.
I asked one of the specialists to comment on why connecting Soyuz-Neon to any TVs via SCART, the image does not twitch, but when connected via GBS it twitches.
He answered me that most likely on TVs is caught only the first front of the frame impulse, after which immediately the autogenerator turns on.
And in the case of GBS, subsequent fronts are also analyzed, which is why a disruption frame happens.
Is it possible to set a setting in which GBS will “see” only the first front of the frame impulse?
rama
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

The specialist is right:
An upscaler / TV front end need to ignore erroneous pulses around the VSync time.
The problem is that gbscontrol already does this. The earlier commands I wanted you to try change some parameters of this "coasting", but they didn't help.

I assume there is another problem with the signal, such as a wrong amplitude or very slow edge slopes.
A look at an oscilloscope reading of the signal would be great.

Edit: I forgot: Is the source delivering CSync into the "S" pin on the GBS?
jbilander
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Location: Stockholm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by jbilander »

Hi Rama,

Finally had time to mod and test gbs-control with my A1200 and Benq BL912 monitor. Looks very nice and no flickering for PAL high res laced mode, nice work rama :) Scanlines looks awesome too :D . One question about the 1280x1024 preset mode. When I choose this mode my monitor reports 1680x1050@50, do you know why? 1920x1080 is reported correctly and fills the screen but would love to try native resolution with this monitor.
Spoiler
ImageImageImage
rama
Posts: 1373
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Looks great, especially for PAL :)
The monitor counts the total vertical lines, and has an internal table that tells it what the resolution must be (they all work like that).
I dish out 1066 lines total for 1280x1024, as per the modeline database (https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Modeline_Database).
My TFT reports 1280x1024 with that, but your display may think this is closer to 1680x1050, so it reports that.
Analogue video timings have so many similar standards, it's no surprise it doesn't always report right.
However, the actual display should be unaffected, or pretty similar at least :)

Note: Even digital TFT cannot know the true horizontal resolution of an analogue signal. They all have to rely on either Display Data Channel (not supported on the GBS), or counting the number of vlines per field/frame.
jbilander
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Location: Stockholm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by jbilander »

rama wrote:However, the actual display should be unaffected, or pretty similar at least :)
Ok, thanks for the info, wish I could get Benq to use native res 1280 x 1024 with GBS-Control. Curios to see how it would look like and if it would fill whole screen. Anyway, did a comparison...

GBS-Control, (RGBS) 1280 x 1024 preset, Overscan 708 x 283, No flicker on PAL High Res laced, scanlines option on progressive modes...
Spoiler
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
RGB -> VGA adapter, 576i@50, Overscan 724 x 283, PAL High Res laced flickers a lot...otherwise great picture on progressive modes. Fills screen, no scanlines option...
Spoiler
ImageImageImageImageImage
Scart RGB -> Hdmi converter, Overscan 724 x 283, No flicker on PAL High Res laced , fills screen, no scanlines option...
Spoiler
Image

720p@50:
ImageImageImageImage

1080p@50:
ImageImageImageImage
rama
Posts: 1373
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:15 pm

Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Hm, it's shifted to the right and not filling the screen well.
I wish I knew what other scalers do to get the image position right.
The sizing would follow then.

Your display seems to support low res. You can try the gbscontrol bypass mode.
In that mode, the image is digitized and directly output again, using the original timings.
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AndehX
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by AndehX »

Got myself a 3D printer this week, so I took the liberty of editing a case found on Thingiverse, to accommodate the ESP8266.

Image

Image

Image

I added a hole for a power switch, and a small hole in the side to give access to the USB port on the ESP without removing the top cover.

You can download it here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xRcTA ... cnQjPfRWsi
rama
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Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

Post by rama »

Plain and simple. I like it :)
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