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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 12:06 pm 



Joined: 23 Sep 2019
Posts: 13
Location: Netherlands
ulfrinn wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
HDCP can get pretty confusing because technically "HDCP support" or "HDCP compliance" means that it upholds HDCP encryption if present, so that an encrypted signal will not be passed. Devices that are often said to "strip" HDCP are simply too old or deliberately made not to recognize the encryption, simply passing through the signal.

Traditionally it was the PS3 that was more problematic about this, especially when loading PS3 games or blurays. Back when I used Portta converters they seemed to not have issues regarding HDCP. You can also find some simple cheap HDMI splitters as well as audio extractors that effectively "strip" HDCP.

edit: good point above about power. A converter with its own power supply is worth trying.


Yeah, when I was trying to capture PS3 gameplay I ran into the issue. I bought a cheap splitter which seemed to give PS3 HDCP the middle finger. It's a valuable tool. And could very well be the solution to this guys problem. I am not sure it can be completely disabled on PS4 or not or if it is, it may only run under certain circumstances. Can the PS4 even output 480P though?


Yes, but only the non Pro model supports 480p.

My Life in Gaming reviewed the GBS control with lots of games and also the PS4:

https://youtu.be/mcqskbCWPCs?list=TLPQM ... fZrQ&t=865


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:02 pm 



Joined: 23 Sep 2019
Posts: 13
Location: Netherlands
Okay finally managed to solve it!

Somehow when the PS4 was set to 480 on a hdmi monitor, the output was still 1080p when connected with component. I could check this on my Sony tv with a direct component input in the living room.
After I set the console on my Sony tv to 480p the signal was also 480p when connected to the gbs with the hdmi to component adapter.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:23 pm 



Joined: 03 Jan 2021
Posts: 74
In case it helps someone in the future, I mostly solved my gbs-c problem with the copper tape on the traces fix. An rgb interface also helps clean up the last bit of noise.

Now I just need to solve the shimmering problem but it's now looking better than ever.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 3:22 pm 


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Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Posts: 170
Location: TX
Josh128 wrote:
I couldnt help myself and set up a definitive image processing latency test for my GBS-C. The results, at least to me, are astonishing. They far surpass the already impressive numbers that Ive read concerning this device.

Test Setup:
Genesis Model 2
Mega Everdrive Pro running 240p Test Suite
Official Sega Genesis Model 2 A/V RCA Cable
RCA Y Splitter
Generic Component Cable (feeding composite video from Y splitter to Y / Green Component Input on GBS)
Compaq FS-7600 17" VGA CRT Monitor
Symphonic (Funai) Consumer 20" FD CRT Television
GBS Control w/ Clockgen Mod
Canon SL1, 1600 ISO light sensitivity, 125 Hz shutter speed

Results: Consistently 10 scanlines of lag on the Compaq VGA CRT via GBS-C RGBHV out @ 480p60 w/ scanlines vs composite in on the Symphonic TV. If you look at the full size photos, its possible to count how many scanlines the leading edge of the scan on the 20' SDTV is past the leading edge of the scan on the VGA monitor. This is how I got the number 10.

I had previously seen Bodnar tests showing approximately 4 ms of lag, but this is much faster. At 60Hz, a single 15KHz frame consisting of 240 scanned lines is scanned in 16.67ms.

10/240= .0416
16.67ms/frame*.0416 frames= .693ms or .042 frames of added lag.

So, rounding the numbers, we can say 0.7ms or 1/24 of a frame of lag. Pretty incredible. Anyone have any objections about how this test was run or any reasons as to why these results wouldnt be accurate?


Thank you for the care and effort. But, I must object to your methodology. You cannot measure lag to this accuracy when your camera's shutter is open for an entire 8ms. That's about half a frame that the shutter is open!


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 3:31 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1520
Guile wrote:
Do you ever get an issue with the colors going way off like they're inverted when a game switches between 240p and 480i when downscaling? This happens for me in PS2 and Wii emulators. In the Wii emulators the menus are 480i but the game can be 240p. When I go to the menu the colors get messed up.


This also has happened to me if I've been playing a 240p system and then switch to a 480i one without resetting the GBS-C, starts out normally for a few minutes but randomly it can get the inverted colors some times. Must just be a bug. Maybe if you report it as an issue on github rama can look into it, it's not too hard to reproduce.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 4:26 pm 


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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 1387
SCARTicus wrote:

Thank you for the care and effort. But, I must object to your methodology. You cannot measure lag to this accuracy when your camera's shutter is open for an entire 8ms. That's about half a frame that the shutter is open!


Sure you can. The time that the shutter is open only affects the trailing illumination of the scan, not the leading edge. The leading edge is always going to be accurate down to the last bit of light that enters the lens as the shutter closes--it doesnt matter if shutter speed is 1/125 or 1/1000 sec. Accuracy isnt affected at all.

I also did some tests at 1/320 sec and they showed the exact same difference except for less illuminated width from the leading edge of lit screen to the point of darkness at the trailing edge. The direct feed consumer TV still led the GBS-C fed monitor by ~10 scanlines.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 12:20 am 



Joined: 03 Jan 2021
Posts: 74
fernan1234 wrote:
Guile wrote:
Do you ever get an issue with the colors going way off like they're inverted when a game switches between 240p and 480i when downscaling? This happens for me in PS2 and Wii emulators. In the Wii emulators the menus are 480i but the game can be 240p. When I go to the menu the colors get messed up.


This also has happened to me if I've been playing a 240p system and then switch to a 480i one without resetting the GBS-C, starts out normally for a few minutes but randomly it can get the inverted colors some times. Must just be a bug. Maybe if you report it as an issue on github rama can look into it, it's not too hard to reproduce.


I'm glad you can confirm this, I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned it. I was a little worried that there was something wrong with my gbs-c but I did suspect it was a glitch. Dreamcast at 240p looked really nice when I tried it.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 4:46 pm 



Joined: 18 Jul 2020
Posts: 9
Is anyone else having issues with tearing while the clockgen is installed? It just doesn't seem to lock on quite right for me, I randomly get this really big tear slowly scrolling across the screen every time I play after 10-60 minutes or so. Tried 3 different GBS boards (V4.0, V5.0 and an 8220) each with their own clockgen and esp8266 installed. I've been at this on and off for months now and have no clue what to try from here.

Things I've tried:
- PS1, PS2, SFC, N64 through RGBs
- Wii through YPbPr
- All the recommended and optional mods (extra bypass caps, replacing c11 etc.)
- Adding a 1nF cap between the clockgen's output and pin 40 on the scaler
- Reflashing the esp8266, making sure everything is correct
- All the different resolution presets
- VGA directly to a monitor
- VGA to HDMI dongle
- Several different power supplies & battery packs between 5-12V
- Different outlets throughout the house & different TVs
- Removing the heatsink from the scaler & positioning the clockgen board elsewhere
- Probably more I can't think of right now

Here's a video showing the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gexsJTXdD8 starting at the bottom, slowly scrolling upwards, by 0:40 It's nearly halfway up the screen.
And another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANQLy373Ebo scrolling down this time, started recording about halfway.
A pic of one of my installs: https://i.imgur.com/YFoIcLE.jpg

Anyone having the same issue or an idea what the cause might be?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:09 pm 


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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 1387
Are you getting the “Active FrameTime Lock not necessary with external clock gen installed” message when pressing the frametime lock button? I've never seen the slightest tear with my setup, which includes the clockgen board.

Are you feeding directly to a CRT and if so, have you tried a second, different one?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:50 pm 



Joined: 18 Jul 2020
Posts: 9
Josh128 wrote:
Are you getting the “Active FrameTime Lock not necessary with external clock gen installed” message when pressing the frametime lock button? I've never seen the slightest tear with my setup, which includes the clockgen board.
Are you feeding directly to a CRT and if so, have you tried a second, different one?


Yeah, the message does pop up and it definitely seems to do something. The tearing I get without the clockgen is different and tends to scroll by much more quickly. I don't have a CRT I can test with unfortunately, but the same thing happens on 2 LCD TVs, 2 LCD monitors (one of which has a VGA port) and my capture card.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:15 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1520
I've been getting that randomly appearing and vertically scrolling tear line. I've only really used my GBS-C (with genclock too) consistently with a SNES, which made me suspect that this was caused by this system's infamous uneven first line jitter, but if you've seen it with other systems then it must simply be an issue with the GBS-C or a combination of the genclock install more specifically.

I only notice it scrolling up or down when there is vertical scrolling in the game itself, moving horizontally makes unnoticeable, perhaps because I have full scanlines on. Also this tear line is "self-healing", after it's done making its way across the picture up or down, it's gone, but of course it can happen again after some time (not sure if cyclical or just random). This is why it hasn't really bothered me much yet, but it would be great to find a solution.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:31 pm 



Joined: 18 Jul 2020
Posts: 9
fernan1234 wrote:
I've been getting that randomly appearing and vertically scrolling tear line. I've only really used my GBS-C (with genclock too) consistently with a SNES, which made me suspect that this was caused by this system's infamous uneven first line jitter, but if you've seen it with other systems then it must simply be an issue with the GBS-C or a combination of the genclock install more specifically.

I only notice it scrolling up or down when there is vertical scrolling in the game itself, moving horizontally makes unnoticeable, perhaps because I have full scanlines on. Also this tear line is "self-healing", after it's done making its way across the picture up or down, it's gone, but of course it can happen again after some time (not sure if cyclical or just random). This is why it hasn't really bothered me much yet, but it would be great to find a solution.


Yeah, I've only recorded examples from my SFC but it happens on all of my systems. I suppose I could try playing with scanlines on to see if it makes a difference, playing without them makes it quite distracting when the screen scrolls. At least It's nice to know that I'm not the only one this is happening to. :P


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 10:09 pm 


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Joined: 30 Jul 2020
Posts: 29
I used to have that tear line with or without the clockgen installed, installing the latest firmware *might* have solved it , as I haven't seen it happen again after installing it. This is how it looks, from a PS1 capture I had made:

https://i.imgur.com/ExZ6Z4e.jpg

This makes me go nuts but at least turning it on/off fixes it...

Another problem I have which there's nothing that can be done is the sync on my Neo CD. It's "heatwaves" for days unless I reset the sync a couple of times, then the scanline jitter is small enough to be imperceptible. Can't complain for the price of entry though.

An example of my Neo CD running on a GBS, with scanlines and line filter on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APYziNHA8LQ , the subtle sync issue is basically undetectable once you coax the device to sync properly, you can only see the line jitter if you look up close on a tv, and can't see it at all on the capture.


Last edited by RoboArmy on Mon May 10, 2021 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:32 pm 



Joined: 18 Jul 2020
Posts: 9
Your PS1 image isn't loading for me, also I've updated to the latest firmware (with the new web UI) and it didn't change anything in regards to the tearing sadly. the Neo CD looks great!


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:20 am 



Joined: 10 May 2021
Posts: 1
I just tested the Digispark Pro adaption on a Arduino and it worked pretty well.
_________________
nox player for pc jiofi.local.html


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:58 am 


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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 1387
Makes me wonder if its not console specific. Ive only used Genesis 2 with my GBS-C so far and havent seen anything. Ive also only used 480p for any real time-- what res are you using?

Thought for you-- when you see the tearing appear go back into the menu and re-select your current resolution. This will cause a re-sync and could fix your issue.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:01 pm 



Joined: 18 Jul 2020
Posts: 9
I mostly use 1080p but the tearing happens on 480p and all the other resolutions also. I don't have a Genesis but PS1, PS2, SFC, N64 and Wii all do the same. And yes, reloading a preset does temporarily fix the tearing but it does return after a while.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 3:01 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 503
RoboArmy wrote:
I finally got to a point where I'm happy with the GBS and my capture device.


Where did the footage go?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:25 am 



Joined: 11 May 2021
Posts: 1
Hi, guys, I need help with connecting ZX-Spectrum clone to VGA monitor using GBS-8200 adapter.

A lot of people suggesting to put resistor between sync and ground on GBS adaptor, but they always tell different value (Om)

Can I put some adjustible resistor instead, so I can adjust myself? If yes, then please advice what kind of adjustible resistor will work for me? Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:34 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 764
Has anyone ever made a guide that explains optimal setups for the OSSC-GBS combo? I don't have my GBS in line atm because I don't know what setting will look great and which will not. Should I ask in the OSSC thread?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 4:10 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1520
ldeveraux wrote:
Has anyone ever made a guide that explains optimal setups for the OSSC-GBS combo? I don't have my GBS in line atm because I don't know what setting will look great and which will not. Should I ask in the OSSC thread?


The GBS-C's defaults (e.g. 1280x960 for NTSC, 1280x1024 for PAL) is pretty much all you need. The OSSC passes that resolution through without scaling (but other processing like custom scanlines, gain, etc. can still apply), and the result is as sharp as whatever you could get with optimal timing tweaking 240p inputs into the OSSC, but without the need of any fiddling, and with the added benefit of correct aspect ratio. If using scanlines (on the GBS-C side) I'd recommend disabling "line filter" for the sharpest picture. That should be it.

The picture comes out very clean without any noise that may be present when using only the OSSC, and also you get the benefits of higher compatibility and instant resolution changes from the GBS-C's scaling.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:44 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 764
fernan1234 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Has anyone ever made a guide that explains optimal setups for the OSSC-GBS combo? I don't have my GBS in line atm because I don't know what setting will look great and which will not. Should I ask in the OSSC thread?


The GBS-C's defaults (e.g. 1280x960 for NTSC, 1280x1024 for PAL) is pretty much all you need. The OSSC passes that resolution through without scaling (but other processing like custom scanlines, gain, etc. can still apply), and the result is as sharp as whatever you could get with optimal timing tweaking 240p inputs into the OSSC, but without the need of any fiddling, and with the added benefit of correct aspect ratio. If using scanlines (on the GBS-C side) I'd recommend disabling "line filter" for the sharpest picture. That should be it.

The picture comes out very clean without any noise that may be present when using only the OSSC, and also you get the benefits of higher compatibility and instant resolution changes from the GBS-C's scaling.


Wait, I've tried putting the GBSC before the OSSC because I'm ultimately outputting OSC to HDMI. Is that not what I should be doing? This seemed to make sense because the OSSC native output is HDMI and I didn't need too many converters.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:03 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1520
ldeveraux wrote:
Wait, I've tried putting the GBSC before the OSSC because I'm ultimately outputting OSC to HDMI. Is that not what I should be doing? This seemed to make sense because the OSSC native output is HDMI and I didn't need too many converters.


Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about, and what I use, the GBS-C ahead of the OSSC, GBS-C's scaled output goes into AV3 of OSSC.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:18 pm 


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Posts: 21
hittheweights93 wrote:
Has anyone else had any issues with running a PlayStation 1 via SCART w/ csync into their GBS? Plugged in directly on my Sony Bravia the image comes through just fine, however into the GBS the image is rolling/tearing and is completely unusable. It's the same case with my iiyama monitor.


Do you have the 100 ohm resistor to ground in place? If yes, try it without; if not, try it with the 100 ohm resistor.
The 100 ohm terminating resistor can sometimes result in waaay over-attenuated signals that either drop or roll, in my experience. I don't use it at all.

When I'm using a sync combiner, I remove the 470ohm resistor the Csync line too, because that also results in over-attenuation and loss of sync with my GBS.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 2:23 pm 


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Posts: 9
OLED Addon update:

- Simplified circuit and re-did the protoboard for troubleshooting ease (also making it easier to produce an easy-to-install PCB in the future)
- Adjusted text timings, alignment and fonts
- Filled in more menus and fixed presets from not loading from one button press
- Replaced "Exit Settings" option to "Current Settings" in discovering that having two screens for this isn't all that functional

TODO:

- Finish remaining menus (includes text, timings and oled navigation etc)
- Design 3d printable case that others can print or modify
- Design inexpensive/simple PCB so OLED addon doesn't require too much modifying of already installed GBS-C units out there.

Below are sample pics of the current status. Ignore the sticker hehe. Sorry for long post, thanks for taking time to read. Hope you have a great day!
Spoiler: show
Image ImageImage Image Image ImageImageImage
Image



EDIT: My OLED add-on is now complete! Menus, Text, OLED operations all done! Last piece was testing the previous code to display resolutions, input type, etc. I've posted examples of consoles tested (DC,PS1,PS2) as examples. This is displayed by navigating to the "current settings" option in the main menu. O yea switched to a single color option OLED which IMO looks cleaner. Any testers out there that want to take this for a test drive?
Spoiler: show
Image
Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 3:56 pm 



Joined: 17 May 2021
Posts: 1
Great project, i have quite unusual use for it.
I'm trying to upscale 18kHz signal from CNC CRT monitor to something usable on 8" LCD(800x600 or 1024x768).
18kHz h-sync
50Hz V-sync
mono.
first problem - no 1024x768 output any pointers in creating new profile?

second problem - reset loop.
I'm seing 3 sec of badly upscaled image, it's stretched vertically and flipped horizontally.
then it resets.
What does
Code:
..RGB/HV <> SOG

means in debug console?
My guess it detected Sync On Green which isn't there....


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 1:59 am 



Joined: 27 Aug 2017
Posts: 1
I love my gbsc but I can never seem to access it over my network. Does anyone else have this problem? I can only connect to it directly


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 9:04 am 



Joined: 02 May 2021
Posts: 3
@TABYDACAT Are you going to open a pull request against main repository? This feature would be a cool addition to GBS-Control. Just add some if statements and make it optional :) I'd be interested in testing it since I have an OLED screen laying around.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 9:51 am 



Joined: 02 May 2021
Posts: 3
I don't think many people use ESP-01 modules for the build so here is mine:

Image

The module is powered from internal 3.3V power rail and I didn't notice any issues running it like this. As you can see I did Clock Generator mod, removed RGB pots, put 22uF electrolytic cap on C11 and hooked up 100 Ohms resistor between Sync and GND.

ESP-01 has 4 GPIO pins exposed so it's quite difficult to make everything work. It requires some changes in the code to use different pins for SDA/SCL signals. Also I had to disable Serial output to gain another 2 GPIOs. One is used for DEBUG signal, the other is free and maybe it could be used in the future. The updates are not straightforward since I'd have to apply my changes every time but I will probably fork main repository and keep it in sync with all changes needed for ESP-01. Also the OTA won't work because the module have only 1MB of flash memory. This is why I used breadboard adapter so I can quickly remove the module and put it into the programmer.

Now my thoughts on GBS-8200. This thing is sensitive to noise as hell. I'm not sure where my issues came from but first the WiFi was breaking up constantly, I had to move the module outside of the board. Then I was having serious issues with noise, the picture was jumping like crazy. I rewired my mods completely and came into conclusion that you should keep the connections as short as possible. I was able to place ESP-01 directly on the board as you can see. Even though it's close to the RAM it doesn't introduce any interference now because the wires are kept short.

I believe my VGA-HDMI adapter is crappy because I still get diagonal lines in 480p output but I noticed this could be fixed by fine tuning HTotal value. I could replace the adapter but I would rather work on utilizing that digital output from the image processor instead and have direct HDMI connection.

The last modification I'd like to add is OLED screen which is totally possible with my setup since it works over I2C. Also having IR receiver would be cool and it would take that last available GPIO pin but I don't think anyone tried that yet?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 8:45 pm 


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Posts: 1387
Would just like to add couple bits of info regarding 480p passthrough and processing.

1.) Using a Time Sleuth 480p out > cheap HDMI to VGA converter > GBS-C VGA > VGA CRT monitor adds zero lag. 0.~ ms lag reading top bar, 7ms at middle bar, 14ms at lowest bar. This is exactly the same as not using the GBS-C in the chain.

2.) Gamecube Component 480i (upscale to 480p) and 480p (passthrough OR upscale) > GBS-C Component In > VGA CRT monitor out looks absolutely amazing. In 480i Bob mode, you cant tell you are not using a 15KHz CRT. If you use motion-adaptive interlacing, stills look identical to 480p and motion is somewhat in between 480i/480p IMO. In 480p mode, you have perfect 480p visuals. Not overly sharp, not soft, just perfect. If you input 480p and output 960p to the CRT, you get an even sharper image, too sharp, IMO.

3.)GBS-C rocks, and the only thing I can think of that would make it better is an XGA (1024x768) mode, for late model 720p plasma integer support.


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