GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project

[rama]

If someone has one of these Koryuu S-Video to Component converters, could you test gbscontrol with it?
I have a report that there is some sync problem, but there's not much I can do with that info alone.
Component is pretty well specified, so I believe it should just work :/

[Stremon]

Hey guys,

Lately I've been trying to use GBS-Control to upscale 480p games to 1080p (from component in to component out), but I got 2 issues.
I'm not sure they are really issue or normal behavior tho.

In 1080p mode the 480p image looks amazing, very sharp and nice. But even in full screen it's scaled in 4:3, no way to stretch it to 16:9 for widescreen games. The image is already stretched to full on my TV of course. The issue is only there with 1080p.

The second issue is that 720p passthrough doesn't work, I get no signal.

I tried with both component or vga out.

If anybody knows if there is any fix for those issues, that'd be great

[NoAffinity]

We had a conversation a while back and it was collectively decided that the 720p profile will be 16:9 and the 1080p profile will be 4:3 within a 1080p frame.

Rama has said that component out is not fully supported. Some features simply are not enabled for the component output option. Just an fyi.

Not sure about your 720p issue. Hopefully somebody has a good idea on that one.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Stremon]

We had a conversation a while back and it was collectively decided that the 720p profile will be 16:9 and the 1080p profile will be 4:3 within a 1080p frame.

Rama has said that component out is not fully supported. Some features simply are not enabled for the component output option. Just an fyi.

Not sure about your 720p issue. Hopefully somebody has a good idea on that one.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Yeah I know for the component limited support, but it works way better than VGA on my TV.

I see so the 1080p 4:3 thing is a feature.
Do you remember what motivated the choice of stretching in 720p but not in 1080p?
Is there a way I can modify the profile myself to fill the screen, without having extensive knowledge in frequencies and such?

For the 720p passthrough not working I'm not so sure where it comes from, but I think (I have to check that tho) that passthrough simply doesn't work on any resolution on my setup (it works fine when connecting the source directly to the TV).

[rama]

For 16:9 1080p, you'll have to revert to an older version.
It isn't too far back. Here is a link:
https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-contro ... a4b3ea6c4f

Component out is probably the bigger issue. I bet it won't do passthrough, for example.
Consider using a VGA to HDMI adapter dongle.

[Stremon]

For 16:9 1080p, you'll have to revert to an older version.
It isn't too far back. Here is a link:
https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-contro ... a4b3ea6c4f

Component out is probably the bigger issue. I bet it won't do passthrough, for example.
Consider using a VGA to HDMI adapter dongle.

Thanks, I will try that!
True I forgot about those vga to HDMI adapter, but won't they add lag to it?
Would you know any model that work well?

[rama]

These dongles do on the fly "passthrough" with no processing (that I know of). They're lagless
It helps that this hands off design of converting VGA to HDMI is cheap and thus popular with device makers.
It is a fast, compatible and convenient method, so we can expect these devices to all work more or less the same.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/VGA-to-HDMI-Kon ... 3308585503

Attention: Double check that it is VGA > HDMI, as there are dongles with the same design, but converting the other way around.

[NoAffinity]

For anyone with the dongles - do you get an overly bright image as well? I have bought two now, both nearly identical in appearance but from different manufacturers. Both are (equally) overly bright. If I adjust tv brightness to get black level correct, it results in colors being bland. There is no amount of gain tweaking in the gbs that will help. I certainly dont blame the gbs as it looks great on direct vga connections. Anybody else running into this and have a solution?

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[rama]

If I adjust tv brightness to get black level correct, it results in colors being bland.

Surely the TV not using the correct black level.
Didn't we debug this before? :p

[Stremon]

These dongles do on the fly "passthrough" with no processing (that I know of). They're lagless
It helps that this hands off design of converting VGA to HDMI is cheap and thus popular with device makers.
It is a fast, compatible and convenient method, so we can expect these devices to all work more or less the same.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/VGA-to-HDMI-Kon ... 3308585503

Attention: Double check that it is VGA > HDMI, as there are dongles with the same design, but converting the other way around.

I see! I didn't know that, always though any ADC converter would add a kind of lag. I'm glad if they don't

I just found this model in my stuff:
https://www.amazon.com/JUSTLINK-VGA2HDM ... B019IE90O0#
I guess there is a big chance they are using the same kind of lagless chipset. Tried it anyway, and you were right, it works great! The image from my retro devices never looked as sharp and nice.

However I still have an issue with the widescreen 1080p of the version you gave me; it's still not full screen 16:9.
It means that nor widescreen nor 4:3 (when I switch to 4:3 with my TV) have the correct aspect ratio
I checked the profile files to see what I can do, and indeed I don't understand what all those number mean
I guess they are timings?
Is there any way to get a proper fullscreen 16:9 profile ?

For anyone with the dongles - do you get an overly bright image as well? I have bought two now, both nearly identical in appearance but from different manufacturers. Both are (equally) overly bright. If I adjust tv brightness to get black level correct, it results in colors being bland. There is no amount of gain tweaking in the gbs that will help. I certainly dont blame the gbs as it looks great on direct vga connections. Anybody else running into this and have a solution?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

You might want to check the HDMI color range set in your TV, as those devices use limited range, not full range
For me it's the same, if I leave it in full range it's way too bright.

[NoAffinity]

If I adjust tv brightness to get black level correct, it results in colors being bland.

Surely the TV not using the correct black level.
Didn't we debug this before? :p

and @Stremon thanks, i will have to check that.

@rama i believe it was my capture card that we debugged but who knows any more. Always a million variables to check. :/

:edit: did some digging, found that my tv's color space is configurable via a expert settings menu that is only accessible through a mobile app. Learn something new every day!

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[UnknownMK1179]

Can someone give me some direction on using gbs-control on a jamma setup? I followed the hardware build on the github site here: https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-contro ... e-Hardware
I built and uploaded the software to the ESP8266 following the guide here: https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-contro ... ware-Setup. I used version 1.8.9 of arduino to program and selected board "Lolin(WEMOS) D1 R2 & Mini. Here's a pic of all my settings: When I hooked everything up I get this:

This is a Neo Geo board with 161 in 1 cart. When I hook up any other jamma board (90's midway like MK, NBA Jam, etc.) I get nothing but a blank screen. The NG board sometimes gives me the proper picture but it's unstable and usually goes back to that scrambled image within a few seconds. The fact that I'm getting a picture at some point tells me it's built and programmed correctly but maybe some of my settings are wrong. I've added the 100 ohm resistor to the sync and ground pin and removed and jumpered the color pots as well. I'm using this on a straight jamma test rig, similar to how a standard arcade cab would be built. No super gun or anything like that just straight jamma right into the GBS. Here are some pics of my build. Can anyone walk me through what I need to do to get this up and running properly?


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[UnknownMK1179]

Dupe post.

[rama]

That is the sad state of consumer equipment today. A GBS is similarly worthless with the provided software, eh ;p

[richms]

Im still waiting on my boards to arrive, but one question, is it possible to have the output on several boards all be synchronized with each other? I have 3 CRTs here that all affect each other when driven from different sources. If I could get them all in sync I assume that it would kill the rolling bars that I get between them. Would the clock generator be able to do that if I paralleld the boards all up from one of them?

[Stremon]

So there is no way to get a full screen 16:9 profile?
I can do it myself if needed, if you point me in the right direction.
I do know Arduino C++ well enough (I have several arcade projects on it), however it'd be more simple if you tell me where should I look for the code managing the aspect ratio

[Ryoandr]

UnknownMK1179 :
you shouldn't use direct JAMMA RGBS signals, they are too high and are made for a high impedance monitor, even more since you removed GBS pots.

You should at least have some resistors to attenuate the signals to reasonable levels (the best is to attenuate and buffer with a video amp like a THS7374).

In any case, if you using it on a flat panel, you should try "HTotal++/--" and/or "lock to 50/60hz" options. Even over VGA, LCDs are much less tolerant than VGA PC CRT monitors.

[toto99303]

Hey guys, since we're in quarantine I had some free time and did this:

Tutorial: GENESIS 2 / MEGADRIVE 2 WITH INTEGRATED HDMI AND WIFI (GBS-C)

https://vmod.wordpress.com/genesis-2-me ... -vga2hdmi/

I hope you like it

[NoAffinity]

Well, I tried changing those expert settings on my TV and it did absolutely nothing. I mean, literally, NOTHING.

But, I dialed back the brightness from 50 (default) to 40, and it looks great. Black is black, colors are on point. I tested with my capture card, as well, and it was definitely necessary to change the input color range to limited, in order for it to look right.

So, who knows what the issue is with the TV, but it seems to be handling the HDMI dongle output well now.

I did find a noise reduction setting in that expert settings menu, though, and promptly turned it to 'off'. So, it was not a complete loss.

[rama]

Stremon:
I don't know how to best help you get started.
The issue is that you need to know the chip AND your C/C++ to do anything.
With just the programming experience, you may want to try looking at doPostPresetLoadSteps() and find stuff that overrides scaling.
Each source format typically has several entries for each output format.

But it will be hard, and you need to have some luck with your idea.
The 1080p preset is pushing all limits already.

NoAffinity:
Can't say much about it. Each TV is different, but they usually all suck when it comes to important options :/

[rama]

toto99303:
Awesome how you approach this stuff, really like it!
This is how we learn, and occasionally / accidentally invent awesome new things ;p

If you want to improve your work, I recommend you start by drastically cutting away at the instructions.
You know that it's basically not too much work to do. Yet the instructions appear like they were for the Saturn 5

I've gone through documenting things as well, so I know the pain of first piling up instructions, then cutting them down again.
But it's worth it for your users, and a good lesson for you and your future projects.

To the project itself:
Well, it's insane!
I wonder how you get away cutting the HDMI board oscillator. What is the replacement?
Flattening the GBS board is a good idea, especially in other consoles, where one may not need a hole for the reset button.
The XL4005 is *super noisy*. It is cheap, but it basically requires a post filter to be designed for it.
Good thing that you got it working though

The lag test is interresting as well. It is interlaced content, so we know there is at least one field / 16.6ms of deinterlacer lag on the GBS.
Yet it still falls very close to the CRT

[Kez]

I wonder how you get away cutting the HDMI board oscillator. What is the replacement?

It's been moved to the other side of the PCB

[maxtherabbit]

I'm sorry but cutting ragged ass holes in the middle of a PCB is where I draw the line

[SuperSpongo]

I really liked the overall idea as well, seems like a fun project. Although, like you said, troubleshooting with all that hotglue would be a nightmare
I'm sure there would be many ways to streamline this, especially shrinking the GBS PCB by manually rerouting low frequency signals with wire for example. That would make it possible to cut even more parts of the board.

[rama]

Regarding cutting the GBS pcb, what would be a good tool for the job?
Something low cost that people may have around already, that would be great!

If we have a 3.3V source and an RGB signal, the entire bottom third of the pcb + the entire right third of it could go.

Edit:
Ah, forgot: We need the 1.8V LDO as well. But that could be moved easily.

[gmcn42]

Hi rama!

Great work, this is some amazing hardware hacking!

I might be in need of some help to get it to run correctly:

My use case: I am trying to get a clean signal from a mid-90s DOS and Win9x machine on my TV. Graphics adapter is a Diamond Viper (Riva 128) together with a Voodoo2. While plugging it directly into my TV's VGA in generally works but there are some issues. For one low-res scaling is ugly (DOS/VGA) and in some cases the TV even loses sync, for instance in Jazz Jackrabbit. Resolutions above 800x600 generally work fine though. I haven't had these issues using a Samsung Syncmaster LCD monitor, so I am pretty sure my TV (Panasonic from like 2011 or something) simply doesn't like low-res VGA that much. So in comes the GBS for upscaling.

Unfortunately I can't get it to display a correct picture. In 1280x960 and Pass-through modes I just get black screen and in 1280x1024 output mode I get this:


Versus direct connection to TV:


I am unsure if I maybe screwed up the hardware setup as unfortunately the soldering pad of the Debug pin came right off the PCB together with a bit of copper trace when I tried to solder a cable to it. So I did some repair work by soldering a jumper wire to an intact part of the trace (after scraping off the PCB isolation). See here:



The D6 pin of the ESP is now electrically connected to the debug pin of the fat PLCC chip and to the following pin (black arrow) on the heatsinked chip:


Is that correct or did I get confused somewhere?

Here is a small part of the video timing log the ESP transmitted, output 1280x1024, input is standard VGA text mode during boot, so either 640x400 or 720x400:

Code: Select all

h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0600 m:14 ht:2015 vt: 448 hpw: 269 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0695 m:14 ht:2783 vt: 448 hpw: 420 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2784 vt: 448 hpw: 269 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2015 vt: 448 hpw: 269 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:1906 vt: 448 hpw:  13 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:1907 vt: 448 hpw:  12 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:1907 vt: 448 hpw:  12 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2015 vt: 448 hpw: 269 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2784 vt: 448 hpw: 164 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2784 vt: 448 hpw: 420 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2783 vt: 448 hpw: 268 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2783 vt: 448 hpw: 420 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2674 vt: 448 hpw: 164 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2015 vt: 448 hpw: 268 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0695 m:14 ht:2783 vt: 448 hpw: 420 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2675 vt: 448 hpw: 164 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31
h: 331 v:1668 PLL:0 A:7b7b7b S:02.18.20 H-V+ I:00 D:0685 m:14 ht:2016 vt: 448 hpw: 268 u:  0 s:ff S:13 W:31

Thanks for your help, and sorry if I made some stupid mistake!

[Ryoandr]

I finally installed some clockgens on 2 boards
1 on a VGA board to VGA CRT monitor. Couldn't find any problem. So, using the clockgen allows perfect framelock and tear line always hidden ? That's nice !

1 on an HDMI board to a PC LCD monitor.
This is where I found some quirks (with a source that's a bit away from 60hz, CPS2) :
"snap to 60hz" seem to need several pushes to do something (not a wifi issues, other commands like image move worked instantly without drops), also needs syncwatcher off ?
"HTotal++" "HTotal--" seem to not work well with "Syncwatcher" on (intended to some point maybe ?)
Scanlines will not be enabled if Syncwatcher is off (and if HTotal has been touched ? By either Snap or HT++/--). Once Syncwatcher is enabled, scanline come (but I lose sync and have to disable it to adjust HTotal again).

[rama]

Ryoandr:
The clock generator dictates the new output clock. In that sense, it overrides the "adjust to X" options and the frame/field rate is the same as the source's.
The benefit over the internal clocks is a much finer resolution, allowing to keed the tear line off screen.

gmcn42:
Your debug pin solution is ok.
The log shows that the H-PLL is not stable, which happens more often with separate sync (such as in your setup).
You can try adding more bypass capacitance, which stabilizes the PLL.
Generally, scaling VGA sources is super hard for gbscontrol. Expect to have to tweak your settings.
https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-contro ... capacitors

[maxtherabbit]

standard VGA text mode is 70Hz, which I've found that my GBS-control setup will ONLY handle in pass-through mode

scaling it comes out a mess

[Kez]

Regarding cutting the GBS pcb, what would be a good tool for the job?
Something low cost that people may have around already, that would be great!

I would think a hacksaw would be fine, or maybe a dremel with a cutting disc.