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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:13 pm 


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Gunstar wrote:
I wonder if it's worth Rama starting a new thread where he has control of the first post to put all this info in one place, there's lots of useful info and tips scattered through the thread like Syntax splitting the CLK0 pad to better place the optional 1nF cap.


This. I'm freaking confused. The thread clearly is completely different than the write-up in post #1 at this point. It should be broken-off by a mod somewhere and re-introduced or something.

Does GBS-control handle 15kHz output for 240p/480i PVMs?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:59 pm 


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manuelink64 wrote:
DrLilo wrote:
Hi again guys.

Quick question: Can the GBS Control accept 480p signals through the D-Sub port? 480p is working great through the component rca jacks, but I'm getting a jumbled image from the D-Sub. Does that input expect 15hkz only?


Yes and no, D-Sub accepts EGA,VGA modes, so required separated sync (V/H) @31.4KHz signal
480p component ≠ 640x480p VGA

It does not require separate syncs (H/V) in fact it works better with composite sync. It does "require" (not really but works better if) you use clean sync. Sync needs to go on the h-sync pin.

While DTV 480p and VESA 640x480 are in fact different in the pixel clock, from a physical "transport layer" perspective they are exactly the same. Either will work on an input expecting the other.

Component video won't work on the VGA input


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:00 pm 


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vol.2 wrote:
Gunstar wrote:
I wonder if it's worth Rama starting a new thread where he has control of the first post to put all this info in one place, there's lots of useful info and tips scattered through the thread like Syntax splitting the CLK0 pad to better place the optional 1nF cap.


This. I'm freaking confused. The thread clearly is completely different than the write-up in post #1 at this point. It should be broken-off by a mod somewhere and re-introduced or something.

Does GBS-control handle 15kHz output for 240p/480i PVMs?

Thanks

yes


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:01 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
yes


ty max the rabbit

may i present you with a worthy roadside attraction

Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:57 am 


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vol.2 wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
yes


ty max the rabbit

may i present you with a worthy roadside attraction

Image


Is the bottom of that twine-ball built into the cement base, or have I been lied to all these years?!

I need to revisit that game on ScummVM on the 34" monster ASAP, fuck
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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:13 am 


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vol.2 wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
yes


ty max the rabbit

may i present you with a worthy roadside attraction

Image

God I want to shove my hand in there to solve an inventory puzzle


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:09 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
It does not require separate syncs (H/V) in fact it works better with composite sync. It does "require" (not really but works better if) you use clean sync. Sync needs to go on the h-sync pin.

While DTV 480p and VESA 640x480 are in fact different in the pixel clock, from a physical "transport layer" perspective they are exactly the same. Either will work on an input expecting the other.

Component video won't work on the VGA input


You tell me that the GBS82xx requires "just to work" on the VGA input,
"only" the RGB and S (clean or comp sync) signal on the H-sync pin?

I have always used Vsync and Hsync from consoles (if available), I have
never tried to connect only Csync. Does this apply to GBS8xxx or any VGA input, like a CRT VGA monitor?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:11 am 


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Some CRT monitors support csync, some do not. You have to check the documentation on a case by case basis, or just try it.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:27 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
Some CRT monitors support csync, some do not. You have to check the documentation on a case by case basis, or just try it.


But the GBS always work like this?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:56 am 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 250
From my testing GBS Control has trouble with RGBHV sources. If HV is converted to Csync before feeding to GBS, it works fine.
And GBS will always output RGBHV.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:48 am 


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Remember guys, you have to remove the 100 ohm sync->ground resistor when connecting a vga source.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:54 am 


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hellbelly wrote:
Still impressed with this. In fact, it allows me to play my CMVS on my Sony TV which is really picky, couldn’t do this through my OSSC no matter what setting I changed.

Pete


@hellbelly Going a bit off topic here, but did you try these settings on the ossc?

Sync OPT. -> H-PLL Post-Coast - 2 lines
Sync OPT. -> Hsync Tolerance - 8.30us

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:50 am 



Joined: 25 Nov 2019
Posts: 37
NoAffinity wrote:
I've used gbs cfw on cps1 and cps2. I have stability issues through a retrotek supergun., but no problem with direct feed from a cps2 av io (effectively a direct connection from arcade rgbs to gbs and overly bright but that's a separate issue and stability is good.

The retrotek sync line has a 680ohm resistor on it. I swapped for a 470ohm and added a 22uf cap but it didn't make any difference.

I also have no problem going through a mak strike supergun to gbs.

So I suggest it might be ultimately caused by the supergun.



Yeah this, I have no issues with direct connections, but when I use a splitter of any sort, I get problems... Until I used the clock gen. it's still not 100% stable but it rarely jumps now.

Also, is there a way for the GBS to output at arcade monitor RGB levels? I tried the downscale feature using Naomi 31khz to a Nanao MS8 and it works great with a sync combiner before the GBS, except the image is quite dim, similar to a directly connected VGA. I just recalibrate the monitor to make it look ok, but it's not ideal.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 am 


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NoAffinity wrote:
Remember guys, you have to remove the 100 ohm sync->ground resistor when connecting a vga source.


Oh is that right? That might explain it. Hmph, kinda problematic, as I'm using a mix of 240p and 480p consoles all connected via a D-Sub switch box...


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:03 pm 


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DrLilo wrote:
NoAffinity wrote:
Remember guys, you have to remove the 100 ohm sync->ground resistor when connecting a vga source.


Oh is that right? That might explain it. Hmph, kinda problematic, as I'm using a mix of 240p and 480p consoles all connected via a D-Sub switch box...


NoAffinity has a nifty solution here: viewtopic.php?p=1414356#p1414356

I might try something like that with a switch.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:30 pm 


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manuelink64 wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Some CRT monitors support csync, some do not. You have to check the documentation on a case by case basis, or just try it.


But the GBS always work like this?

yes


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:17 pm 


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rememberizer wrote:
NoAffinity wrote:
I've used gbs cfw on cps1 and cps2. I have stability issues through a retrotek supergun., but no problem with direct feed from a cps2 av io (effectively a direct connection from arcade rgbs to gbs and overly bright but that's a separate issue and stability is good.

The retrotek sync line has a 680ohm resistor on it. I swapped for a 470ohm and added a 22uf cap but it didn't make any difference.

I also have no problem going through a mak strike supergun to gbs.

So I suggest it might be ultimately caused by the supergun.


except the image is quite dim, similar to a directly connected VGA. I just recalibrate the monitor to make it look ok, but it's not ideal.


Have you adjusted gain using the web ui controls? Mine always starts out dim if I'm not using a saved profile. I turn on auto gain, give it a few seconds, turn off auto gain, then hit gain + a couple times. For most sources, the best setting is around 45. You can just leave auto gain on, but i find it dims in different scenes. Not terribly, but I still prefer it stays at a static setting that is to my liking. Of course once you get everything dialed on a particular source, save a profile. The gbs always restarts on the last selected profile, or if you dont have a saved profile, then it restarts on the last chosen resolution.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:29 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1373
Phew, lots of questions, some aren't easily answered :p

CSync vs separate H+V (input to GBS):
Both are supported on the RGBs(HV) port. The Component Video input uses embedded syncs on luma (as per standard) and works well with it.
For the RGBs(HV) port, using CSync is better. The chip can detect formats from CSync, whereas H+V sync requires guesswork.
If you have the option, use CSync. If only H+V is available, try it. It might work just fine.
In stubborn cases, a sync combiner could be used. People have open source designs that can do it, but it can also be done with a couple cheap parts.

"Naomi 31khz to a Nanao MS8 and it works great with a sync combiner before the GBS, except the image is quite dim"
This dim picture may be a configuration issue on the Nanao MS8. If the GBS potentiometers are all the way to the left (or bridged), the picture should be okay out of the box, IF the Nanao MS8 has proper balance and outputs TV level RGB.

"output at arcade monitor RGB levels"
Not with software alone. Maybe an additional video driver chip could do this? I don't think it'll be easy though.

"New thread"
Yes, I know. Big project atm, but I'll get to it eventually :p


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:48 pm 


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Gunstar wrote:
I might try something like that with a switch.


Soldered a switch in so I can remove the 100ohm resistor on command. Seems to have done the trick for Dreamcast.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:11 pm 


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Posts: 18
I just filed an issue with a proposal (working HTML) for an improved Web GUI for gbs-control.

https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-control/issues/126

Please post your thoughts at that page so we can keep them all in one place. Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:21 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 1373
Hey,
I agree it's ideal to post to the issue on Github.
Just wanted to let people here know that I've seen the UI and that I like it.

Good work! :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:55 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 53
So just to verify, CSYNC or HVSYNC can go into the GBSC but the output will always be seperate HV. If I am downscaling to 15Hz to an RGB TV then I will need a sync combiner between the GBSC and the Set/PVM? So will the Sync Blaster work to get the output to the apporiate CSYNC? https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/SYN ... B-STRIPPER


I'm going in to the Luma pin on S-Video for sync but could switch to composite if that makes a difference. This is a very specific use case I am messing with and I realized I am using the GBSC a bit in the "reverse" from the norm.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:49 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 250
By default, it will output RGBHV yes.

You could either
-sync combine HV, it will works on devices that will only accept csync like PVMs

or

-mod your GBS to do component (1st page of thread has how-to) and use component out option in web config and use your PVM in component mode (many accept it). Pinout is GBS VGA G/B/R to Y/Pb/Pr.

Also question to rama, can GBS do RGsB (aka sync on green) in addition of component ? Could help some cases where display doesn't have component capacity nor HV input, but does accept RGsB (I think there are some like this ? Not sure honestly) ?

EDIT : yeah some definitively exist, like PVM 1350. Will do RGBS and RGsB only.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:41 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 53
Maybe you answered this, but do I have to sync combine HV to get RGBS output or can I pull CSYNC or LUMA Sync while still using RGB instead of compoent. Say a Sony Trinitron that is RGB modded.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:41 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 250
I don't think it'll work.
combining sync is you best bet.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:05 pm 



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There’s a simple combined circuit that’s just been posted on RetroRGB- https://www.retrorgb.com/building-a-pas ... biner.html
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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:35 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 53
I feel like Bob is watching my every move as I take this huge RGB journey. This is perfect. Very timely post!


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:11 pm 


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rama wrote:
"output at arcade monitor RGB levels"
Not with software alone. Maybe an additional video driver chip could do this? I don't think it'll be easy though.


Tim Worthingtons AV-driver may help here. I've used it for ttl to consumer set levels (and used it to split arcade to gbs, with great results :) ). I know sync can be set for ttl or 75ohm (in and out). I dont know enough about rgb to know if the gain and attenuation capabilities can get the signal to where @rememberizer wants it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:22 am 



Joined: 06 Aug 2018
Posts: 25
Guys what's the summary on deprecating VSYNC connectivity? I can't see when the GBS Control firmware stopped needing it and realised maybe it does. The Github Wiki does not ask you to connect VYSYNC to D7, and nor do I see this in user photos. I do however find mention to adding this connection in other places.

Was it deprecated somewhere along the line?

FYI I am writing a brand new GBS-Control guide that aims to get newbies started. I have friends in my local vintage computing group that are buying the hardware but have so many questions so I'm consolidating all my knowledge into a master document and want to ensure it's the best available information. Once I finish the draft (currently 10 pages) I'll link it here and people can just read around the Apple IIGS section :-)

Also I am still getting outstanding picture quality by pressing Gain - then Auto Gain Control toggle. The picture instantly brightens up and looks appropriate (e.g highlights are fine). I wish there was a macro to do this!


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:45 am 



Joined: 31 May 2019
Posts: 33
NoAffinity wrote:
Remember guys, you have to remove the 100 ohm sync->ground resistor when connecting a vga source.


So this has me wondering - and I hope this isn't an annoying question to ask - is this a situation where the RGBS pins and DSUB pins are tied together? And if so, then why exactly do we need the additional termination resistor for sync when using RGBS?

The board is designed to take standard VGA signals, and that's TTL Hsync and Vsync, which are 5v each, right? What's the danger of using an unterminated CSync signal in this situation? I'm not going to use RGBS without the resistor, I'm just wondering why the board can take VGA just fine(?) but somehow unterminated Csync (which I've never seen above 5v) is a problem.


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