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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:11 am 


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thanks! Missed that.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:38 pm 


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Just bought an OSSC last month as I finally decided I no longer want a CRT TV in the house (unpopular opinion right there, but hey!) :)

The device performs excellently in terms of the picture output, although it did take me a while to find out about all the quirks with a PAL PlayStation (i.e. swimming picture after initial boot screen displayed in glorious 525i, which you can resolve by switching from AV1 to a different input and then back again) and to learn how tune the important options out of the hundreds of available ones by going through that daunting wiki page.

I don't know if anyone has complained about it before, but I really had to come here to mention how awkward the physical positions of the inputs and outputs are on the device.

For instance, of all the possible combinations, what are the two guaranteed cables that will be plugged into any OSSC? I believe it must be the HDMI output and the power supply. Why are they on the opposite sides of the device? The OSSC wastes an awful amount of room to the left and right of it because of these two lateral cables, not to mention that it looks messy. Things you would want to possibly optionally plug in, such as the SCART input, component video and VGA are positioned somewhere behind, where you would want to turn the device to see the inputs when changing them, but can't do so easily because of the HDMI and power input, which are always in the way. This might seem like a minor qualm with the device, but it seems surprising that this is the current configuration after a couple of revisions.

I work for a company that makes an electronic hardware product, so I know how demanding hardware revisions are (and especially something major like this). Thus, I didn't have too much trouble forgiving how it turned out and simply reveling in its wonderful no-lag line doubling capabilities. Notwithstanding, I think that an overhaul of the exterior would generally improve user experience - perhaps not significantly, but definitely not negligibly.

I'm glad that the "Pro" model looks like it is going to fix these things, although I'm guessing that apart from the cable positions I won't be gaining much from it for my setup.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:01 am 


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Lec wrote:
I don't know if anyone has complained about it before, but I really had to come here to mention how awkward the physical positions of the inputs and outputs are on the device.



Oh, plenty of people have complained, plenty. However, no one has risen to the task of designing a different pcb layout (well, there was the wolf edition, but it never got finished). The schematics are available for anyone to try!
You have to realise Marqs intention/focus was not on sleek design, but software/function. I think he also may have underestimated the popularity of the device tbh.

As you noted, design issues with inputs/outputs are largely fixed on the OSSC Pro anyway.
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OSSC TV Compatibility report thread


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:28 pm 


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Harrumph wrote:
However, no one has risen to the task of designing a different pcb layout (well, there was the wolf edition, but it never got finished). The schematics are available for anyone to try!

There's ManuFerHi's OSSC.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:17 pm 


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Nice, wasn’t aware of that one!
Some nice improvements, but missed the opportunity of placing scart on the side so cable is directed towards rear, to reduce the ”octupus effect”. ;-P
But thumbsup for the effort of course!
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OSSC TV Compatibility report thread


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 12:18 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
Datapath Vision RGB cards, which you can find on ebay.com - rather reasonably priced. Big advantage here: full 4:4:4 capture, which is great for screenshots.


NormalFish wrote:
That's the set up I'm using at the moment, don't even bother splitting anymore, too. Just hook up the OSSC to the capture card and play in the capture window. Fair warning the software is a bit finnicky and you may need more PCIE lanes, but once it's working and you configure things, it's absolutely fantastic. Easily the best 100$ i've spent on anything retro since the OSSC.


Thanks for the suggestions, the card was completely hassle-free. Dropped it in, installed the drivers, and it worked flawlessly in OBS once I set the capture resolution to what the OSSC was actually outputting (1920x1200p 5x). Now if I can sort out my streaming audio problems...


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 11:06 am 


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Quote:
Thanks for the suggestions, the card was completely hassle-free.

good to hear! If it just was this easy for all the users that either don't run windows or don't have internal expansion capabilities at all....


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:34 pm 



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Can anybody recommend me a 27"monitor for my OSSC. I am using a Viewsonic XG2703-GS wich unfortunately gets black after turning 480x2 on my wii. Would be awesome if the monitor also supports480i/576ix4/x3/x2 for gamecube games...


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 7:54 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
If it just was this easy for all the users that either don't run windows or don't have internal expansion capabilities at all....

In case both of these are requisite, my swiss army knife has for years been the Magewell USB Capture HDMI Plus. Since it's a USB video class device, it works on every one of the three major operating systems without the need to install any vendor-specific driver. Granted, it's not the most affordable piece of kit (and has also risen in price lately?), but it manages to check all the boxes unless you want to record in 4K (it supports recording 4Kp60 inputs in 2K, but in this case not without chroma subsampling) - it can even seamlessly offload up/downscaling for you. There's these relatively affordable ones too, but I don't have any experience with them. Has anyone here used these? If they work well, that would be a quite attractive cost-benefit ratio.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 8:12 pm 


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I have the Epiphan DVI3USB one and it's using the same "automatic bandwith" detection as the Magewell (I guess). On my Epiphan I can't get 1080p60 at 4:4:4 RGB. That's a bandwith limitation. 4:2:2 is fine. I assume the Magewell can't hit 60fps at 1080p 4:4:4 either, can it ?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 8:48 pm 


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Once you manually tell it to prefer RGB 24/32 via USB Capture Utility - as opposed to the default conversion to YUY2 (meaning YCbCr 4:2:2) even if the source is RGB - it pulls off 1080p60 4:4:4 RGB just fine on my setup as claimed here. Here's a video I captured this way.

Edit: looks like YouTube, among other things, crunshes that down to 4:2:0, so the point kinda gets lost there :p Anyway, if I..
Spoiler: show
.. ffprobe the original file I uploaded, it says
Code:
Stream #0:0: Video: h264 (High 4:4:4 Predictive), gbrp(tv, gbr/unknown/unknown, progressive), 1920x1080, 60 fps, 60 tbr, 1k tbn, 120 tbc (default)

and if I ffprobe the video device itself (Nintendo Switch connected and no differing resolution/framerate requested on the capture card), it says
Code:
Stream #0:0: Video: rawvideo (BGR[24] / 0x18524742), bgr24, 1920x1080, 2985984 kb/s, 60 fps, 60 tbr, 1000k tbn, 1000k tbc

so I didn't merely inflate originally chroma subsampled video by encoding it in 4:4:4

and as you can see, the framerate is stable.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 7:20 am 


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nice, thanks! The Epiphan drops down to about 45fps for 1080p60 at 4:4:4.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 9:16 pm 


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Are you sure the USB connection is not impeded in some way (USB Hub/Host Controller shared with multiple devices, poor/too long cable, process playing man-in-the-middle 'iusb3mon.exe' etc.), or is it the unit itself?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 9:41 pm 


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we're speaking about 6MB per frame at uncompressed capture that have to be tunneled through the USB bus. In my book that's above (basic) USB3 capabilities any way you look at it. Wondering what Magewell does different to do this. It's been some time, but I spoke to Epiphan about this as well (back when I got the device) and they confirmed the limitation. It's hardly an issue for the customer base though I guess, since almost everybody compresses into a 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 codec anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 10:52 pm 


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There are USB 3.0/3.1 Gen 1 flash drives that achieve > 400 MB/s sequential read or write ([1], [2]), so while at >80% of the theoretical bandwidth limit after 8b/10b encoding this is pretty good, USB shouldn't be the bottleneck. I assume it's the Epiphan's device-side controller then.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 10:55 pm 


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Quote:
There are USB 3.0/3.1 Gen 1 flash drives that achieve > 400 MB/s sequential read or write ([1], [2]),

the USB drives shown under the 1st linke actually max out under the required 366MB/s.

Are you sure that the Anandtech LAcie review means the right thing? From my understanding they only tested the thunderbolt version of the drive and Thunderbolt is - even in version 1 - still a PCIe connection with a theoretical throughput of 10gbit/s instad of the 5gbit theoretical max of regular USB3.


Last edited by Fudoh on Sun May 03, 2020 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:04 pm 


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Corsair Voyager GTX v2 (USB 3.0): 435MB/s seq. read via CrystalDiskMark (use the drop-down select for different screenshot). LaCie Rugged Thunberbold supports USB 3.0, and over that, 452MB/s write was measured for a Blu-ray folder.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:08 pm 


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very well. Certainly can't wait to try and see Magewell's USB wizardry. It still doesn't seem to be easy. Avermedia felt pressured to go the Thunderbolt route with their new external capture unit.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 2:21 am 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, the card was completely hassle-free. Dropped it in, installed the drivers, and it worked flawlessly in OBS once I set the capture resolution to what the OSSC was actually outputting (1920x1200p 5x). Now if I can sort out my streaming audio problems...

welcome to the club! I run external audio for everything with RCA straight out of my consoles, which simplifies things on the audio front. Audio issues are a pain, though, goodluck.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 11:15 pm 


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Fudoh: it's not much more than speculation on my part, but observing that the 'Live Gamer BOLT' is basically the 'Live Gamer 4K' (which uses PCIe 2.0 x4) in an external enclosure, suggests that this might just have tipped the scales in favor of Thunderbolt 3 (carries up to PCIe 3.0 x4).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 4:05 pm 


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I would have to look at the specs to see which formats Avermedia supports, but given that 1080p60 4:4:4 scratches at the USB3 limits already (either being slightly outside with the Epiphan oder slightly within specs on the Magewell), once we talk 4K60 or HDR formats or whatever the Avermedia can capture, I think we're so far off the USB3 spec limits that TB3 seems to be the only option atm.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:46 pm 


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USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 transfer mode supports 20GBit/s (~2.4GB/s) and uses a siginficantly more efficient encoding, so that should certainly fit the bill for the stuff they're doing. But yeah, at the end of the day I'm unfamiliar with their implementation and Thunderbolt 3 gives them plenty of headroom with its nominal 40GBit/s either way. And USB4 will basically become Thunderbolt 3 anyway :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:56 pm 


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There is no user base for USB 3.2 (yet). You can't offer a device that nobody can properly connect to an existing workstation. And on the development side you need at least a year or two into the lifetime of a new standard to make sure everything works. USB for pure storage (where 3.2 is used right now) is way less critital as it's backward-compatible and the worst thing to happen is that you get some reduced speeds.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:54 pm 


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My argument was merely a technical one, if USB 3.2 is indeed that rare as compared to Thunderbolt 3, then I concur that the market situation might have played the decisive role.

But I'm not sure whether the situation is that clear-cut: current mainboards frequently supply multiple USB 3.2 Gen 2×1 ports while Thunderbolt is often absent outside of Apple products. Add to that the circumstance, that the 'Live Gamer BOLT' is - of all things - not supported on OSX currently. Arguably, both TB3 and USB 3.2 Gen 2×2 interfaces are fairly unusual currently, but TB is, not uncommonly, unavailable altogether. With USB, the device could at least always be used (in a restricted fashion); USB 3.2 Gen 2×2 could then easily be reached by using two USB 3.2 Gen 2×1 or even two USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports simultaneously, because it's comprised of two lanes of the latter spec striped and bonded together.

While I've been enjoying the discussion as I learned some things along the way, I don't even really care for AVerMedia, but here's a pertinent review which may facilitate further elucidation, and gives a similar perspective/arrives at much the same unresolved questions about the TB3 choice.

Oh and we (I ?)'ve been kidnapping the thread quite a bit :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 10:11 pm 


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I think the argument here for general absence of TB3 is exaggerated. Yes, it's usually not available on custom build PCs, but it's really quite common on higher end notebooks (and on Intel made machines like the NUCs) due to its eGPU usage and anybody with a custom build PC would use the internal version of the device instead anyway, hence no need for the TB3 one on those machines.

What speaks for Avermedia is the OSSC compatibility (didn't try, but as stated by Try from MLiG) and its 4:4:4 capture ability - both completely missing on Elgato's offerings. The Magewell cards and boxes in the same same price range can't do this in 4K60 and the Magewell cards that can start at something like 4x the price of the (internal) Avermedia / double the price of the Bolt.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 11:06 pm 


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W-w-w-wait a minute, compressing my statement to a "general absence of TB3" is giving it an unauthorized spin, I'd agree that this would be exaggerated :P What you say still leaves out an awful lot of host devices. But fair enough.

On custom-built PCs, by definition everything is available though, budget permitting. And I can think of reasons why one would prefer to use an external device in combination with custom-built (i.e. stationary, as a rule) PCs – I do so myself, it's not always used in combination with the same host, a host in my possession, or the same flavor of operating system at that (hence I hold the open UVC standard in high regard, it's always plug & play).

Isn't "OSSC compatibility" dependent on the signal source? If anything, a given device can be more accepting on average with regards to off-spec signals as compared to another. If that's the case for AVerMedia (I can't compare too) then that's of course a huge plus for our quarters, add to that the more sparing price/performance ratio you mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 11:30 pm 



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fafangus wrote:
Quote:
marqs wrote:
Quote:
fafangus wrote:
I've got problem with 480i signal (only tested saturn for the moment), the picture is cut in 2, some tips for that ?
Is that using AV3 or AV1, and what's reported if you press 'info'?


lol didn't know there was source info, I'll tell you what it says

Tested in the two inputs (rgbs, yuv for AV1, rgbhv for AV3), maybe it's causing by the CII, but the PS2 is showing her menu in 480i & the pal DQ8 game in 576i, tonight I'll try directly to TV
On Saturn, I have tested DBZ shin (240p to 480i when loading the fight), Digital Pinball (576i), and VF2(480i title screen & ingame & 240p characters selection)

Edit : ok connected roughtly the saturn to the OSSC > works fine !! Great 480i & 576i !!
now I've got to find a way to hook the audio to my setup xp

Bonus : https://youtu.be/YJbu3wtf3mk
Sonic 2 multiplayer ^^


Now I pass every signal with AV1 with no problems (not re-tested the neogeo yet, but in my memories it was good), hooking directly the console to the av1, or hooking the sync strike / xsync1 to av1 (by passing by an extron matrix rgbs, so I could do a vga>scart with no particular loose)

Av3 gives me some little sync issues with some console (don't remember the rgb used) but it's like a 0.5 sec desynchro, and resynchro as fast...sometimes playing, sometimes when powering on the console, maybe that the fact of the CII that is checking the resolution/freq

Another trick I use with the fabulous OSSC : before I was hooking my 480p signals (RGBHV/YUV) directly to the CII, yesterday I have tested passing by the OSSC, and the results are great (ps2 & Dreamcast), there are a little transition when passing from 480i to 480p but nothing embarrassing, the picture is more clear and colors are more "colourfull", sharper etc...

I'll have to bypass my xeselect to see if I could get a better picture...

Now all my 3 input are hooked :
Av 1 : for 240p/480i
Av 2 : for yuv 480i/480p
Av 3 : for signals that gives me a headhache (like my amiga 1200 ^^)

Tested : (all with success)

NTSC console :
Saturn / sfc / megadrive 1 / pce / neogeo / ps1 / ps2 / extron emotia (line x3 give me a little a rounded picture at the top, line x2 perfectly fine)

Pal console :
Amiga 1200 / Dreamcast / megadrive 1

Have to test (when I've got the time lol) :
Atari ST, 3do (NTSC), supergun (jamma / naomi / mvs...), nesrgb, n64 (NTSC), amiga cd32, wii (yuv), gamecube (yuv)...

For now the OSSC give me full satisfaction (and with the 480p trick maybe more)


Do you have an X-Sync1 that I can buy?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 8:58 am 


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Quote:
compressing my statement to a "general absence of TB3"

I wasn't refering to your statement, but to the conclusion in EposVox's review you linked to.

Quote:
Isn't "OSSC compatibility" dependent on the signal source?

not really. It's comes down to the capture unit's ability to lock to non standard timings, since the OSSC "tricks" to achieve any resolution higher than 480p and isn't able to output timings close to the VESA or SMPTE standard timings.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 7:34 pm 



Joined: 16 May 2020
Posts: 1
naz wrote:
Hi, I did try that filter, but didn't like it (I ended up using custom scanlines for the look I wanted).

Here is a link of the file (it will be up for 7 days)

https://easyupload.io/bpl0yj

Cheers!


Hi all

I have just got hold of an OSSC and am over the moon with it. I have a setup I like with the custom scanlines settings but would like to give custom firmware from Redguy a try while I am tinkering.

naz did upload a copy of it a couple of months ago. Could I ask for that again?

It seems to be have been scrubbed from the Internet when the Redguy github was deleted.

Many Thanks

shodgy


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 11:52 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2017
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Here you go:

https://easyupload.io/bvzv24

But after you tried it, try this for a softer (but still sharp) scanline:

- 5x generic (don´t use optim)
- Hybrid Scanlines 50% (if you like softer, increase it a bit more).
- Custom Scanlines: horizontal: 93% 37% 0% 37% 93% ; Vertical: all 0 (this doesn't work the way I would like).

The above effect are scanlines with "rounder" edges, variable thickness and still sharp enough (sharp like a good crt, not emulator sharp). This is the closest I've got to real scanlines (proper vertical scanlines is all I'm missing), I hope you like it.

cheers!


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