Hey marqs, thanks for the response! The issue was the person who was sitting in front of the monitor. I simply forgot to update the sys/ foldermarqs wrote:Any details on the source / configuration which is needed to reproduce the issue?
After I did it now, everything works fine.
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
Turns out I had changed H.samplerate from 341 to 342 at some point. Setting it back to 341 and adjusting LPF(s) I've got my SNES looking amazing!HDgaming42 wrote:I'm here as well but for my SNES (original launch unit).cave hermit wrote:Also I'm trying to optimize my OSSC for Genesis output, but following firebrandx's documentation I get a shimmering effect on varying parts of the screen regardless of what I set sampling phase to. Any ideas?
What's the easiest way to set phase? Or is phase not the culprit here? I've been using the 240p test suite checkerboard pattern as it is immediately apparent if anything is out of sorts as it shows up as wavy distortions. There isn't a single phase setting that eliminates them on my setup--what else can I try?
Also, through trial and error I discovered that my Sony 930E actually accepts 5x, including 1600x1200. In this mode I measure the lag as being less than 2 frames, which puts it faster than rtings measured for 1080p game mode. Yay!
It seems my redmere cables simply don't play nice with the OSSC beyond 2X scale. When I swapped them out suddenly the clouds parted and the holy light of 5x shone down upon me. It is truly magnificent. I have the pre-audio OSSC and can't believe how it keeps getting better and better--thanks Marqs!
Final question:
Anything full white from my SNES drops the picture out. 240 test suite--Konami logo--white flashes (lightning FX). Is this a cable issue? I'm using retroaccess SNES SCART cables from a decade ago--are they throwing too much voltage? Any way to mitigate that within the OSSC?
Thanks!
I reviewed the SW code and found one very unlikely scenario where that might actually happen, but good to know it wasn't that here. I'm not sure if the case reported by sebnec was solved, though.borti4938 wrote:Hey marqs, thanks for the response! The issue was the person who was sitting in front of the monitor. I simply forgot to update the sys/ folder
My fault! I hope you didn't take a look into the 'potential' issue from my site. I'm sorry for any confusion...
Those sound like display incompatibility with the said modes - you might want to check whether you can reproduce them with another display.HDgaming42 wrote:I don't get an image at 5X at all unless at Generic 4:3.
At 4X many times I don't get an image with optimal timing settings, but occasionally I will get the above distortion, with a portion of the screen wrapping over off the top back around to the bottom. Sometimes this wrap updates, and sometimes it becomes a still.
My understanding is that AV3 does have an LPF, but it's only one frequency that's applicable to 960-/1080-line modes, whereas the LPFs for AV1 and AV2 support a number of frequencies applicable to modes from 240p to 1080p.fernan1234 wrote:On the AV1 vs AV3 topic, I'd also like to learn more about how exactly they are different other than the connection type. I've heard that LPF cannot be enabled for AV3. I'm also curious about what other differences there are, including the one that causes the issue that user shmupsrocks just mentioned.
How to reproduce the issue? Maybe need to test using a good source machine, good power, good cables, and a Datapath capture card?shmupsrocks wrote:I was able to eliminate the waving/rolling pattern by lowering my Line5x samplerate to 1920 which makes me think that my previous samplerate of 1965 was distorting the aspect ratio and creating the pattern as a byproduct of that distortion.
This raises the question of how best to determine the correct samplerate in Generic 4:3 mode. Increasing and decreasing the samplerate causes the image to lengthen and shorten so how best to determine the optimal value? I thought I knew how to do this but I had come up with 1965 which must not be correct since it produced the waving/rolling pattern which itself seems likely due to an incorrect aspect ratio.
orange808 wrote:How to reproduce the issue? Maybe need to test using a good source machine, good power, good cables, and a Datapath capture card?shmupsrocks wrote:I was able to eliminate the waving/rolling pattern by lowering my Line5x samplerate to 1920 which makes me think that my previous samplerate of 1965 was distorting the aspect ratio and creating the pattern as a byproduct of that distortion.
This raises the question of how best to determine the correct samplerate in Generic 4:3 mode. Increasing and decreasing the samplerate causes the image to lengthen and shorten so how best to determine the optimal value? I thought I knew how to do this but I had come up with 1965 which must not be correct since it produced the waving/rolling pattern which itself seems likely due to an incorrect aspect ratio.
I'm not even sure what you're seeing. What's the chain and settings?
Is it shimmering? Is it a rolling pillar or a rolling bar? How tall/wide is the artifact? How many simultaneous visible rolling bars manifest themselves? Can you reproduce the issue on mulitiple displays? Does rolling back the OSSC firmware help?
If the low pass filter is clearing it up on AV1, it might be an upstream issue with the video chain before the OSSC. Could it be a power supply or grounding loop thing? Leaky cable? Bad switch/splitter? Maybe an issue with the source machine? Could it be the display's scaling?
And, the best results I can get involve using FBX's settings and forcing the aspect ratio using my display's scaling or a video processor (if you can get your display or video processor to accept the signal).
-every Extron VGA switch I've used has output TTL sync, I'd be shocked to find one that did notfernan1234 wrote:Thanks nmalinoski and maxtherabbit for all that info on the OSSC's AV inputs.
I'm particularly interested about AV3 because I'm thinking about integrating a flat panel + OSSC into my RGB setup, which runs on an Extron VGA switch with dual output, so I'd be using that to feed RGBS to the OSSC via VA3. Sounds like I'll just have to experiment with it and see if the TVP7002's LPF is good enough. I'm also not sure if what the switch is outputting the required TTL sync.
Thanks for even more advice. I have an idle VGA-4BNC cable I could use, so this would be the path of least resistance for me to try first. If that doesn't work I'll look into one of your VGA LPFs.maxtherabbit wrote:Or you could just make a VGA to SCART cable to connect the OSSC to your switch, or use VGA/BNC breakouts to connect RGB to one of the buffered inputs and sync to AV3 and use the "alternate AV3 RGB" setting on the OSSC
Settings for N64 with RGB amp without deblur (just regular THS7314) would be according to that thread:Kez wrote:Yes but it is optional, you could easily save an OSSC profile that is optimised with deblur and switch to a generic 4:3 profile for the 640x240 games.Windfish wrote:So... I haven't attempted this n64 "sorcery" yet, but my question is: is this method going to ruin some games that require the higher res mode?
There is a recent thread on VGP here where someone dialled in their N64 using this method, should be enough info for you to get it set up.
And to be clear, if your RGB mod is one that includes deblur (i.e. Tim's or Borti's boards) then you don't need to do this (though it will still look sharper with the optimal timings).
Does that issue apply only for scan conversions, or does it also affect passthrough mode? If it does, what is the hack that makes it work?interlaced content via AV3 in RGBHV/RGBS mode requires a hack to work (TVP7002 issue).
Counting and processing of equalization pulses is filtered out by Macrovision stripper so pre/post coast does not need to cover them. Serration pulses during vsync I think are ignored by vsync processing circuit as line counting and sync processing work the same way regardless whether they are present or not. For TVP coasting is only needed if hsync period is not stable during pre/post equalization phases.rama wrote:Seeing the new profile generator (http://pbnl.byethost7.com/ossc/profiles/?i=1), I wonder about the VSync coast functionality of the TVP chip.
Does anyone know whether it ignores any existing equalization and serration pulses?
I assume it would have to, since otherwise the selectable coast lengths wouldn't be enough to cover all the pulses that make up standard VSync.
What is the method called by which the TVP skips counting the short pulses (if it indeed does)?
By default TVP7002 cannot decode interlace signaling via TTL sync inputs the same way it can't decode even-even signaling via analog sync inputs. RGB data from the chip is still generated ok while output sync is messed up (missing or extra vsync), but the sync is then fixed by FPGA in real time for all output modes. In most cases this should work OK, but there may be exceptions which is why AV1/2 (or AV3 RGsB) are generally recommended for interlace sources.fernan1234 wrote:First, since one of my main goals is to have the OSSC pass through all RGB 480i signals (DC, PS2, Wii, etc.), I am concerned about this reported known issue:
Does that issue apply only for scan conversions, or does it also affect passthrough mode? If it does, what is the hack that makes it work?interlaced content via AV3 in RGBHV/RGBS mode requires a hack to work (TVP7002 issue).
Get a custom VGA to SCART cable from retroaccess with resistors to bring the sync down to 75 ohms. That will let you use AV1 with full LPF control and no interlace hacks.fernan1234 wrote:Would really appreciate input from those in the know. I'm thinking about using an OSSC again, but I have all my systems using custom DB-15 cables going into an Extron VGA SW. I'm hoping to be able to simply use a VGA cable from one of the switch's outputs into the OSSC's AV3.
First, since one of my main goals is to have the OSSC pass through all RGB 480i signals (DC, PS2, Wii, etc.), I am concerned about this reported known issue:
Does that issue apply only for scan conversions, or does it also affect passthrough mode? If it does, what is the hack that makes it work?interlaced content via AV3 in RGBHV/RGBS mode requires a hack to work (TVP7002 issue).
I'm also wondering if I can assume that the Extron SW is outputting the required TTL sync. I do have an Extron rxi unit that I could put in between to get either RGBHV in what assume is TTL or RGsB for AV2, though I'd prefer to avoid this if possible. For sync type I think I should have no problems since a couple of cables that are lifting sync from luma (PS1, SNES) also have sync strippers, though I'm not 100% for all of them (the ones I use for N64Advanced and PS2 output may not now that I think about it).
Thanks for any advice.
Thanks for this info. Sounds like I should just try it out and hope for the best.marqs wrote:y default TVP7002 cannot decode interlace signaling via TTL sync inputs the same way it can't decode even-even signaling via analog sync inputs. RGB data from the chip is still generated ok while output sync is messed up (missing or extra vsync), but the sync is then fixed by FPGA in real time for all output modes. In most cases this should work OK, but there may be exceptions which is why AV1/2 (or AV3 RGsB) are generally recommended for interlace sources.
I really want to avoid spending more on custom cables if possible. Ideally I'll be able to just organically drop the OSSC into my sweet DB-15 environment. Instead of going back to SCART, I would prefer to rely on the interlace hack if it's not too complicated. I'll come back and ask about it if it turns out that I have problems with the AV3.bobrocks95 wrote:Get a custom VGA to SCART cable from retroaccess with resistors to bring the sync down to 75 ohms. That will let you use AV1 with full LPF control and no interlace hacks.
the interlace hack has worked pretty ok in my experience. in fact, my dreamcast is connected over VGA and it works in 480i without even turning the hack onfernan1234 wrote: I really want to avoid spending more on custom cables if possible. Ideally I'll be able to just organically drop the OSSC into my sweet DB-15 environment. Instead of going back to SCART, I would prefer to rely on the interlace hack if it's not too complicated. I'll come back and ask about it if it turns out that I have problems with the AV3.
The discussed hack is always enabled and separate from "AV3 interlacefix" which is a workaround for yet another TVP7002 limitation (Hsync must be aligned to Vsync, but that setting can be used to increase tolerance).maxtherabbit wrote:the interlace hack has worked pretty ok in my experience. in fact, my dreamcast is connected over VGA and it works in 480i without even turning the hack onfernan1234 wrote: I really want to avoid spending more on custom cables if possible. Ideally I'll be able to just organically drop the OSSC into my sweet DB-15 environment. Instead of going back to SCART, I would prefer to rely on the interlace hack if it's not too complicated. I'll come back and ask about it if it turns out that I have problems with the AV3.
marqs wrote: Counting and processing of equalization pulses is filtered out Macrovision stripper so pre/post coast does not need to cover them. Serration pulses during vsync I think are ignored by vsync processing circuit as line counting and sync processing work the same way regardless whether they are present or not. For TVP coasting is only needed if hsync period is not stable during pre/post equalization phases.
Thanks!marqs wrote: By default TVP7002 cannot decode interlace signaling via TTL sync inputs the same way it can't decode even-even signaling via analog sync inputs. RGB data from the chip is still generated ok while output sync is messed up (missing or extra vsync), ...
How exactly does this Silicon Optix integrate with the OSSC? I use component in to the OSSC , does it go before or after? What's the best connections to use, DB-15?orange808 wrote:I would always try my display's own deinterlacing before I used an Extron machine, because it's unlikely the Extron will outperform your display.
If you never want to see a blackout ever again and you need better deinterlacing, buy a Silicon Optix IA-100 and get a very fast display that handles 960p. Chain the IA-100 in front of the OSSC and output 480p. Use the OSSC for scanlines, audio embedding, and to line double 480p to 960p. I don't do that, but it would work for people that absolutely need no dropouts and decent deinterlacing.
SOIA in front of OSSC. Use HD15 ("VGA") to connect on AV3.ldeveraux wrote:How exactly does this Silicon Optix integrate with the OSSC? I use component in to the OSSC , does it go before or after? What's the best connections to use, DB-15?orange808 wrote:I would always try my display's own deinterlacing before I used an Extron machine, because it's unlikely the Extron will outperform your display.
If you never want to see a blackout ever again and you need better deinterlacing, buy a Silicon Optix IA-100 and get a very fast display that handles 960p. Chain the IA-100 in front of the OSSC and output 480p. Use the OSSC for scanlines, audio embedding, and to line double 480p to 960p. I don't do that, but it would work for people that absolutely need no dropouts and decent deinterlacing.
Awesome info, thanks. I'll check that thread out soon as well. So I'd need a way to run component into the SO, I guess a component to BNC ?orange808 wrote:SOIA in front of OSSC. Use HD15 ("VGA") to connect on AV3.ldeveraux wrote:How exactly does this Silicon Optix integrate with the OSSC? I use component in to the OSSC , does it go before or after? What's the best connections to use, DB-15?orange808 wrote:I would always try my display's own deinterlacing before I used an Extron machine, because it's unlikely the Extron will outperform your display.
If you never want to see a blackout ever again and you need better deinterlacing, buy a Silicon Optix IA-100 and get a very fast display that handles 960p. Chain the IA-100 in front of the OSSC and output 480p. Use the OSSC for scanlines, audio embedding, and to line double 480p to 960p. I don't do that, but it would work for people that absolutely need no dropouts and decent deinterlacing.
Be aware of all the trade offs here: frame rate conversion, lag, and sharpness. There is no "perfect" video chain and you're always giving up something to get something. In this case, you get instant transitions, Faroudja deinterlacing, and tate rotation.
Also:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38531
Looks to me like you'd just need some female RCA to male BNC adapters.ldeveraux wrote:Awesome info, thanks. I'll check that thread out soon as well. So I'd need a way to run component into the SO, I guess a component to BNC ?
So as someone not at all familiar with BNC, what do I do with the HSYNC and VSYNC ports?nmalinoski wrote:Looks to me like you'd just need some female RCA to male BNC adapters.ldeveraux wrote:Awesome info, thanks. I'll check that thread out soon as well. So I'd need a way to run component into the SO, I guess a component to BNC ?
