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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:16 am 



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Has anyone paired an Extron DSC 301 HD with their line doubler or OSSC? I'm attempting to standardize odd refresh rate arcade pcbs with my VGA CRTs.

I can't get any of the following to display without flagging on the left side of the screen: Fixeight, V-V, Batsugun.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:46 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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thchardcore wrote:
Has anyone paired an Extron DSC 301 HD with their line doubler or OSSC? I'm attempting to standardize odd refresh rate arcade pcbs with my VGA CRTs.

I can't get any of the following to display without flagging on the left side of the screen: Fixeight, V-V, Batsugun.

I have; it's the only way I can get line3x 480i to work on my TV. That said, I don't have any arcade PCBs or consoles with super weird refresh rates.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:18 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 311
Can someone briefly explain the OSSC's ability to run in 2x-5x mode? I understand it's multiplying the lines, but does this result in better resolution? If I have a 1080p TV, what is the optimal mode, or is it different for each game console?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:29 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
thchardcore wrote:
Has anyone paired an Extron DSC 301 HD with their line doubler or OSSC? I'm attempting to standardize odd refresh rate arcade pcbs with my VGA CRTs.

I can't get any of the following to display without flagging on the left side of the screen: Fixeight, V-V, Batsugun.

I have; it's the only way I can get line3x 480i to work on my TV. That said, I don't have any arcade PCBs or consoles with super weird refresh rates.


I never see people talk about 480i x3. How do you think it looks?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:19 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1541
ldeveraux wrote:
Can someone briefly explain the OSSC's ability to run in 2x-5x mode? I understand it's multiplying the lines, but does this result in better resolution? If I have a 1080p TV, what is the optimal mode, or is it different for each game console?

I guess it depends on your definition of "better resolution". It certainly results in a higher resolution, which can mean both effective 240p compatibility with modern displays (in that it gets line-doubled to 480p) and feeding a higher- or native-resolution image to your display can avoid or eliminate blurriness and artifacting from your display's scaler; but it's not like it increases rendering resolution on the console for more detail.

bobrocks95 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
thchardcore wrote:
Has anyone paired an Extron DSC 301 HD with their line doubler or OSSC? I'm attempting to standardize odd refresh rate arcade pcbs with my VGA CRTs.

I can't get any of the following to display without flagging on the left side of the screen: Fixeight, V-V, Batsugun.

I have; it's the only way I can get line3x 480i to work on my TV. That said, I don't have any arcade PCBs or consoles with super weird refresh rates.


I never see people talk about 480i x3. How do you think it looks?

I thought it looked good, but my current TV has a 1366x768 panel, so line3x 480i from my PS2 scaled down to native resolution with the DSC 301 HD does look good, but I don't think it's all that distinguishable from 480i passthrough, at least on my TV from a distance.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:41 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 311
nmalinoski wrote:
I guess it depends on your definition of "better resolution". It certainly results in a higher resolution, which can mean both effective 240p compatibility with modern displays (in that it gets line-doubled to 480p) and feeding a higher- or native-resolution image to your display can avoid or eliminate blurriness and artifacting from your display's scaler; but it's not like it increases rendering resolution on the console for more detail.


This is the TV I currently use for retro game consoles, the PN50C7000: https://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/2010-plasma-tv-c7000-series

Here are the resolutions accepted by the TV (from the manual). What settings on the OSSC will look the best, assuming I keep the TV in 1080p mode.
https://imgur.com/GGYfAtP


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:17 pm 


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Entirely depends on what you mean by ”looks best”.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:43 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Harrumph wrote:
Entirely depends on what you mean by ”looks best”.

Agreed; what looks best is subjective and entirely up to the individual. If you want to get into what's most correct, that's an entirely different question.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:35 am 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 206
The TV supports 1280x960, which would be a perfect 4x on the vertical without scaling. I’d start there.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:06 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 277
I've been using the HAS and OSSC for a while and everything works great except certain PCBs like Taito F3. I'm told going through HD15 between the HAS and OSSC is the way to fix that. I'm using an adapter that connects the 8-pin video output cable on the HAS to the AV3 input on the OSSC. I don't seem to get any signal from the OSSC this way after scrolling through the OSSC inputs although it works via AV1. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

I have another adapter that plugs into the AUX output on the HAS and itself outputs HD15 but the result is the same.


Last edited by shmupsrocks on Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:28 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 311
SavagePencil wrote:
The TV supports 1280x960, which would be a perfect 4x on the vertical without scaling. I’d start there.


What's the ideal method to connect the Extron DSC 301 and OSSC then? Sorry to noob, I've had the 301 just sitting there waiting to be connected and I haven't done it yet. Which order would they run in? I assume consoles > switch > OSSC > DSC 301 > TV ?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:09 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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ldeveraux wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:
The TV supports 1280x960, which would be a perfect 4x on the vertical without scaling. I’d start there.


What's the ideal method to connect the Extron DSC 301 and OSSC then? Sorry to noob, I've had the 301 just sitting there waiting to be connected and I haven't done it yet. Which order would they run in? I assume consoles > switch > OSSC > DSC 301 > TV ?

If your TV doesn't like the video modes coming out of the OSSC, or you'd like better deinterlacing, you're probably best off putting the DSC 301 HD between the OSSC and the display, like in your example.

Do keep in mind that, at least in my experience, it takes about 3 full seconds to recover from HDMI blackouts when the OSSC is connected to the DSC 301 HD with HDMI. You can get this down to about 1 second by using an HDMI to VGA converter (I use the Portta one) and using the DE-15 input on the DSC 301 HD, but you won't be able to eliminate it.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:16 pm 


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I would always try my display's own deinterlacing before I used an Extron machine, because it's unlikely the Extron will outperform your display.

If you never want to see a blackout ever again and you need better deinterlacing, buy a Silicon Optix IA-100 and get a very fast display that handles 960p. Chain the IA-100 in front of the OSSC and output 480p. Use the OSSC for scanlines, audio embedding, and to line double 480p to 960p. I don't do that, but it would work for people that absolutely need no dropouts and decent deinterlacing.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:05 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 311
orange808 wrote:
I would always try my display's own deinterlacing before I used an Extron machine, because it's unlikely the Extron will outperform your display.

If you never want to see a blackout ever again and you need better deinterlacing, buy a Silicon Optix IA-100 and get a very fast display that handles 960p. Chain the IA-100 in front of the OSSC and output 480p. Use the OSSC for scanlines, audio embedding, and to line double 480p to 960p. I don't do that, but it would work for people that absolutely need no dropouts and decent deinterlacing.


Oh goody, another thing to buy :wink: I also have the Extron IN1508 just sitting around, would that be useful in this situation at all?

nmalinoski wrote:
If your TV doesn't like the video modes coming out of the OSSC, or you'd like better deinterlacing, you're probably best off putting the DSC 301 HD between the OSSC and the display, like in your example.

Do keep in mind that, at least in my experience, it takes about 3 full seconds to recover from HDMI blackouts when the OSSC is connected to the DSC 301 HD with HDMI. You can get this down to about 1 second by using an HDMI to VGA converter (I use the Portta one) and using the DE-15 input on the DSC 301 HD, but you won't be able to eliminate it.


I posted my TV specifics earlier, and I guess it's pretty good? I'm not sure, I'm not technical enough to know where it stands. I know it supports 960p, which would be good for 4x? I bought the silly 301, so I figured I might as well use it, but if it introduces 3sec HDMI recovery lag, that's not ideal. I also have that Porta converter, but I'll try just the 301 first


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:15 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 277
shmupsrocks wrote:
I've been using the HAS and OSSC for a while and everything works great except certain PCBs like Taito F3. I'm told going through HD15 between the HAS and OSSC is the way to fix that. I'm using an adapter that connects the 8-pin video output cable on the HAS to the AV3 input on the OSSC. I don't seem to get any signal from the OSSC this way after scrolling through the OSSC inputs although it works via AV1. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

I have another adapter that plugs into the AUX output on the HAS and itself outputs HD15 but the result is the same.


All I had to do was switch the HAS from 75ohms to TTL and increase pre and post coast.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:30 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1541
ldeveraux wrote:
Oh goody, another thing to buy :wink: I also have the Extron IN1508 just sitting around, would that be useful in this situation at all?

I'd need to dig mine out of storage and take the time to verify, but I think the IN1508, like the DSC 301 HD, only does seamless switching between inputs, not seamless transitions between video modes. Plus, the IN1508 isn't 240p-aware, so it treats it as 480i; that lets it survive 240p/480i transitions, but it also forces deinterlacing, which, if I remember correctly, ends up introducing combing artifacts. Worth a try, but understand the tradeoffs.

nmalinoski wrote:
If your TV doesn't like the video modes coming out of the OSSC, or you'd like better deinterlacing, you're probably best off putting the DSC 301 HD between the OSSC and the display, like in your example.

Do keep in mind that, at least in my experience, it takes about 3 full seconds to recover from HDMI blackouts when the OSSC is connected to the DSC 301 HD with HDMI. You can get this down to about 1 second by using an HDMI to VGA converter (I use the Portta one) and using the DE-15 input on the DSC 301 HD, but you won't be able to eliminate it.


I posted my TV specifics earlier, and I guess it's pretty good? I'm not sure, I'm not technical enough to know where it stands. I know it supports 960p, which would be good for 4x? I bought the silly 301, so I figured I might as well use it, but if it introduces 3sec HDMI recovery lag, that's not ideal. I also have that Porta converter, but I'll try just the 301 first[/quote]
960p is not necessarily VGA 1280x960, and the framerate might be off enough for your display to reject it. Definitely try the OSSC direct to your display first. I'd recommend line4x 240p, passthrough 480i (Because I'm not sure what feeding a bob-deinterlaced 480i to a plasma will do), and line 2x 480p.

If none of that works on your display, add the DSC 301 HD, configure it to output 1280x960@60. Then set up the OSSC with line5x 240p, line5x output mode to 1600x1200, 480i to passthrough or line3x (avoid line2x/4x), and 480p to line2x, and tweak the modes till you get what you think looks best.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:45 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 311
nmalinoski wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Oh goody, another thing to buy :wink: I also have the Extron IN1508 just sitting around, would that be useful in this situation at all?

I'd need to dig mine out of storage and take the time to verify, but I think the IN1508, like the DSC 301 HD, only does seamless switching between inputs, not seamless transitions between video modes. Plus, the IN1508 isn't 240p-aware, so it treats it as 480i; that lets it survive 240p/480i transitions, but it also forces deinterlacing, which, if I remember correctly, ends up introducing combing artifacts. Worth a try, but understand the tradeoffs.

nmalinoski wrote:
If your TV doesn't like the video modes coming out of the OSSC, or you'd like better deinterlacing, you're probably best off putting the DSC 301 HD between the OSSC and the display, like in your example.

Do keep in mind that, at least in my experience, it takes about 3 full seconds to recover from HDMI blackouts when the OSSC is connected to the DSC 301 HD with HDMI. You can get this down to about 1 second by using an HDMI to VGA converter (I use the Portta one) and using the DE-15 input on the DSC 301 HD, but you won't be able to eliminate it.


I posted my TV specifics earlier, and I guess it's pretty good? I'm not sure, I'm not technical enough to know where it stands. I know it supports 960p, which would be good for 4x? I bought the silly 301, so I figured I might as well use it, but if it introduces 3sec HDMI recovery lag, that's not ideal. I also have that Porta converter, but I'll try just the 301 first

960p is not necessarily VGA 1280x960, and the framerate might be off enough for your display to reject it. Definitely try the OSSC direct to your display first. I'd recommend line4x 240p, passthrough 480i (Because I'm not sure what feeding a bob-deinterlaced 480i to a plasma will do), and line 2x 480p.

If none of that works on your display, add the DSC 301 HD, configure it to output 1280x960@60. Then set up the OSSC with line5x 240p, line5x output mode to 1600x1200, 480i to passthrough or line3x (avoid line2x/4x), and 480p to line2x, and tweak the modes till you get what you think looks best.[/quote]

4x just looked dim to me, so I stuck with 3x. It's not super crisp, but I think it's better than nothing. I don't know, I'll fool around with it a bit more.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:16 pm 


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If a source isn't entirely stable do I set both Pre and Post H-PLL Coast settings or just one of them?

Been having some dropouts with my Saturn running Capcom fighters lately. Might also affect other narrower resolutions, but we've primarily played Capcom games lately :)

Of course, now I cannot get the OSSC to loose sync at all with my old settings, but increasing both Pre and Post to 2 doesn't seem to harm anything either. Is this method that I should be trying as a first resort when the problem obviously is very periodical and hard to recreate?

Output is 1600x1200 and I'm using Generic 4:3 if that makes any difference :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:40 pm 


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shmupsrocks wrote:
shmupsrocks wrote:
I've been using the HAS and OSSC for a while and everything works great except certain PCBs like Taito F3. I'm told going through HD15 between the HAS and OSSC is the way to fix that. I'm using an adapter that connects the 8-pin video output cable on the HAS to the AV3 input on the OSSC. I don't seem to get any signal from the OSSC this way after scrolling through the OSSC inputs although it works via AV1. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

I have another adapter that plugs into the AUX output on the HAS and itself outputs HD15 but the result is the same.


All I had to do was switch the HAS from 75ohms to TTL and increase pre and post coast.
You need to perform this small mod to get it working via AV1. There was also a suggestion to add similar option for AV2 so that RGB could be routed to AV2 while HV / composite sync would be input via AV3. That would remove the need for HW modification at the price of some extra cabling and adapters.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:45 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
If a source isn't entirely stable do I set both Pre and Post H-PLL Coast settings or just one of them?
The coast settings only help if the sync is not periodic / stable during vblank. There's usually no harm in setting both to 3.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:51 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 277
marqs wrote:
You need to perform this small mod to get it working via AV1. There was also a suggestion to add similar option for AV2 so that RGB could be routed to AV2 while HV / composite sync would be input via AV3. That would remove the need for HW modification at the price of some extra cabling and adapters.


It would be great to get F3 working via AV1. After performing this mod, will non-F3 boards still work just as well?

If I perform this mod and then switch back to a regular SCART cable, will things work as they did pre-mod even though the OSSC pins are still jumpered?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:40 pm 



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shmupsrocks wrote:
If I perform this mod and then switch back to a regular SCART cable, will things work as they did pre-mod even though the OSSC pins are still jumpered?

I would think everything would work okay, but you might get some leakage if you keep anything connected to AV3.

If you want to fully disable this mod, I'd include a DPST switch so those bridges can be severed when not in use; that way, you can just enable the setting/profile, flip the switch, and hook up your arcade board, then reverse to switch back to stock.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:11 pm 


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Firmware v0.85 is now publicly available:

* Simple OSD implementation
* Mask color setting added


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:13 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:58 am 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 277
Thank you marqs!

What is the mask color setting used for?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:49 am 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
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shmupsrocks wrote:
Thank you marqs!

What is the mask color setting used for?


Good for calibrating color (e.g., compare console full red against OSSC full red).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:49 am 



Joined: 25 Aug 2018
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marqs wrote:
Firmware v0.85 is now publicly available:

* Simple OSD implementation
* Mask color setting added


Thanks Marqs! This is what I've been waiting for.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:42 pm 


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amazing new features, thank you marqs


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:32 pm 


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Works really, really well! :)

Marqs>

When no menu is displayed the left and right buttons are used to switch between inputs. This does cause the screen to loose sync every time. Would it be possible to display the list on the OSD and select using the OK button instead? I think that would be a neater solution, especially if your display is slow to resync :)

And additionally since up/down isn't used for anything, couldn't' these be used to switch between advanced sampling modes?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:51 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
When no menu is displayed the left and right buttons are used to switch between inputs. This does cause the screen to loose sync every time. Would it be possible to display the list on the OSD and select using the OK button instead? I think that would be a neater solution, especially if your display is slow to resync :)


That doesn't work well when you're on an inactive input trying to switch to an active input.


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