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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:51 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1240
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
idk at 60.08hz it is fine for me, no sync issues and feels very smooth without shortstops. the jitter mod seems to be an unnecessarily autistic solution

That the vertical refresh rate is 60.08Hz is irrelevant; the problem is that the horizontal sync cadence is not 100% consistent across every frame, and you are very lucky that you found/have a display that doesn't trip up on that. If you bought a different display or took your setup to a friend's house, there's a good chance that you'll get unstable sync or or no sync at all.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:01 pm 



Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 19
I'm trying to connect to a CMVS using this circuit, but the OSSC is stating there's no sync detected. I hooked it up briefly without any protection to check the MVS is working, which it is. I've checked continuity all over the board, but can't find any issues. I don't have a scope, but there are some low voltage signals on the RGB and sync lines. Any ideas? I don't have any other RGB input devices I could use to see if it's an OSSC-specific issue.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/R8NJ9UQ4


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:08 pm 


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Marmotta wrote:
I'm trying to connect to a CMVS using this circuit, but the OSSC is stating there's no sync detected. I hooked it up briefly without any protection to check the MVS is working, which it is. I've checked continuity all over the board, but can't find any issues. I don't have a scope, but there are some low voltage signals on the RGB and sync lines. Any ideas?


Doesn't the MVS have a non-standard refresh rate? Something like 59.1856Hz.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:36 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1240
Lawfer wrote:
Marmotta wrote:
I'm trying to connect to a CMVS using this circuit, but the OSSC is stating there's no sync detected. I hooked it up briefly without any protection to check the MVS is working, which it is. I've checked continuity all over the board, but can't find any issues. I don't have a scope, but there are some low voltage signals on the RGB and sync lines. Any ideas?


Doesn't the MVS have a non-standard refresh rate? Something like 59.1856Hz.

That might prevent the display from syncing, but that shouldn't prevent the OSSC from locking onto sync and displaying the detected video mode on its LCD.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:44 pm 



Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 19
Lawfer wrote:
Marmotta wrote:
I'm trying to connect to a CMVS using this circuit, but the OSSC is stating there's no sync detected. I hooked it up briefly without any protection to check the MVS is working, which it is. I've checked continuity all over the board, but can't find any issues. I don't have a scope, but there are some low voltage signals on the RGB and sync lines. Any ideas?


Doesn't the MVS have a non-standard refresh rate? Something like 59.1856Hz.


It does, but it works fine when connected directly without any protection from the high(er) voltages of the MVS, which is why I mentioned it - the refresh rate isn't the issue.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:00 am 


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Have you tried tweaking the Hsync tolerance and the H-PLL pre and post coast settings?

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... c_settings
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... tibilities

I was also having issues with sync lock on with my consolized MVS (not a cbox though) and I was going to install that board as well. However it turned out that my issue was because the modder who I bought it from put a 1.5 K resistor on the sync line. I replaced it with a 470ohm one and it started working perfectly. The video was really good so I ended up not installing the RGB board (and now I have 3 bare pcbs laying around).

Also, what cables are you using? That PCB is supposed to be used with cables which have no components inside them, if I remember correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:40 am 



Joined: 08 Dec 2018
Posts: 36
1.5K resistor on the sync line? No wonder it didn't work, that would yield a 0.19V output.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:32 am 


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Location: UK
Quote:
Anyway, BuckoA51, your links require login, so... :mrgreen:


That's a bug, Flickr are having some issues at the moment, it's fixed now.
_________________
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:20 am 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, BuckoA51, your links require login, so... :mrgreen:


That's a bug, Flickr are having some issues at the moment, it's fixed now.


Any reason you still use flickr over imgur or dropbox or google photos? I've only ever known them to have issues.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:38 pm 



Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 19
hugo19941994 wrote:
Have you tried tweaking the Hsync tolerance and the H-PLL pre and post coast settings?

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... c_settings
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... tibilities

I was also having issues with sync lock on with my consolized MVS (not a cbox though) and I was going to install that board as well. However it turned out that my issue was because the modder who I bought it from put a 1.5 K resistor on the sync line. I replaced it with a 470ohm one and it started working perfectly. The video was really good so I ended up not installing the RGB board (and now I have 3 bare pcbs laying around).

Also, what cables are you using? That PCB is supposed to be used with cables which have no components inside them, if I remember correctly.


Tried adjusting the settings and still no luck. I've already ordered some parts from Mouser, in case it was an issue with my soldering and also to try out some different circuits. I'm using the Retro Gaming Cables Mini DIN 8 Packapunch cable, which has no components apart from a 180 ohm resistor on the 5V line for SCART switching.

The image looks fine to me without any additional components at all (although I'm not the fussiest when it comes to image fidelity, at least compared to the average Neo Geo user :roll: ). I'm more concerned about potentially damaging the OSSC by feeding it the raw signals from the MVS.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:25 am 



Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 14
Very pleased with the new scanline options, been hoping for something like this for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 5:40 pm 


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Has anyone had the opportunity to pull/build paulb-nl's fork and try out the sample rate fine tuning?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:58 pm 


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I know that firmware 0.83 that was posted here a week or so ago is not a final image, but I think I've found a small issue. I was using the 320x240 optimized mode (with Firebrandx's settings) with a Japanese Mega Drive 2 which has a triple bypass installed. When outputting with 5x scaling I can see some small artifacts (https://photos.app.goo.gl/8NxKsraUwy1xzhsx7).

If I use 4x scaling mode or firmware 0.82 they dissapear. Has anyone noticed this as well?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:23 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 179
What size should Xbox (or GC) 480p be resized to when running in 4:3?

In other words, I have a device set to output 480p at 4:3, and my OSSC set with h.active to 720 and samplerate set to 858. What dimensions should the resultant output be?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:21 am 


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SavagePencil wrote:
What size should Xbox (or GC) 480p be resized to when running in 4:3?

In other words, I have a device set to output 480p at 4:3, and my OSSC set with h.active to 720 and samplerate set to 858. What dimensions should the resultant output be?



For Gamecube, active pixels with those settings is 660, which is the actual output resolution with square pixels. I'd advise you to crop to this point first to prevent the edges getting feathered on the resize.
The dot clock rate means it has a 10:11 PAR, so you need to do (660/11)*10, which is 600x480.
If you'd rather just resize the whole thing then crop (which I don't recommend, but whatever), then the maths is (720/11)*10, which is 656x480.

Gamecube is a little bit weird though, but I won't get into that too much. Read this thread if you're curious - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62790
For all intents and purposes though, the above calculation is correct for what it would have looked like on a CRT.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:30 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 266
maxtherabbit wrote:
Has anyone had the opportunity to pull/build paulb-nl's fork and try out the sample rate fine tuning?


That fine tuning is for those consoles that need a fractional samplerate in optimized mode like N64 and Genesis 320. With that you are able to adjust 1/4th and 1/5th samplerate in 320x240 LineX4 and LineX5 respectively.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:49 pm 


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paulb_nl wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Has anyone had the opportunity to pull/build paulb-nl's fork and try out the sample rate fine tuning?


That fine tuning is for those consoles that need a fractional samplerate in optimized mode like N64 and Genesis 320. With that you are able to adjust 1/4th and 1/5th samplerate in 320x240 LineX4 and LineX5 respectively.

Yeah I know what it's for, and thank you for writing it. Just wondering if it's being tested


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:47 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 179
Jademalo wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:
What size should Xbox (or GC) 480p be resized to when running in 4:3?

In other words, I have a device set to output 480p at 4:3, and my OSSC set with h.active to 720 and samplerate set to 858. What dimensions should the resultant output be?



For Gamecube, active pixels with those settings is 660, which is the actual output resolution with square pixels. I'd advise you to crop to this point first to prevent the edges getting feathered on the resize.
The dot clock rate means it has a 10:11 PAR, so you need to do (660/11)*10, which is 600x480.
If you'd rather just resize the whole thing then crop (which I don't recommend, but whatever), then the maths is (720/11)*10, which is 656x480.

Gamecube is a little bit weird though, but I won't get into that too much. Read this thread if you're curious - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62790
For all intents and purposes though, the above calculation is correct for what it would have looked like on a CRT.


Excellent, thank you for the GC values. Does anyone know the correct ones for the original Xbox?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:41 pm 



Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 19
Marmotta wrote:
I'm trying to connect to a CMVS using this circuit, but the OSSC is stating there's no sync detected. I hooked it up briefly without any protection to check the MVS is working, which it is. I've checked continuity all over the board, but can't find any issues. I don't have a scope, but there are some low voltage signals on the RGB and sync lines. Any ideas? I don't have any other RGB input devices I could use to see if it's an OSSC-specific issue.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/R8NJ9UQ4


Thought I'd follow this up in case anyone else is having the same issue. After puzzling over what it could be for a while, I found a major and simple flaw in the OSHPark board - the 5V line is shorted to ground on a castellation on the board. I don't know if this was on the original design or is an error in manufacturing by OSHPark.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:55 pm 


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this is a manufacturing error, BUT I don't see how a missing chip on the PCB's soldering mask would cause a short.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:35 pm 



Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 19
Fudoh wrote:
this is a manufacturing error, BUT I don't see how a missing chip on the PCB's soldering mask would cause a short.


That area is where I lightly attacked it with a Dremel to fix the short. The 5V solder pad was just about connected to one of the two castellations on the bottom edge, and that area has a ground fill on the other side of the board.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:39 pm 


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SavagePencil wrote:
Excellent, thank you for the GC values. Does anyone know the correct ones for the original Xbox?


Original Xbox is the same, 858/720 with 10:11 PAR.

Do be aware though, 480i from the original xbox is absolutely goddamn awful


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:49 pm 


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Jademalo wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:
Excellent, thank you for the GC values. Does anyone know the correct ones for the original Xbox?


Original Xbox is the same, 858/720 with 10:11 PAR.

Do be aware though, 480i from the original xbox is absolutely goddamn awful


480i Component from the Original Xbox is nothing particulary different from 480i of other consoles.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:55 pm 


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Lawfer wrote:
Jademalo wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:
Excellent, thank you for the GC values. Does anyone know the correct ones for the original Xbox?


Original Xbox is the same, 858/720 with 10:11 PAR.

Do be aware though, 480i from the original xbox is absolutely goddamn awful


480i Component from the Original Xbox is nothing particulary different from 480i of other consoles.



480i - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
480p - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

Hard disagree there.
Been doing a lot of testing on this over the last month with a number of different Xboxes, the raw 480i output is absolutely horrible.

These two images were captured with the exact same setup (Xbox->Official Component->OSSC->Vision E1s), and you can see that the output is just dreadful. I have tried every possible bit of configuration available, and there is no solution. That's just what the 480i output looks like.

Not to mention for some reason the 480i output is in limited range. That one confuses me even more, but applying limited->full correction is neccesary to get black and white levels right.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:13 pm 


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that's not really a valid comparison, since interlaced input into the OSSC upscaled to 960p results in a signal that's hardly comparable to a properly interlaced 480i signal which is upscaled AFTER deinterlacing.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:51 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
that's not really a valid comparison, since interlaced input into the OSSC upscaled to 960p results in a signal that's hardly comparable to a properly interlaced 480i signal which is upscaled AFTER deinterlacing.


Alright then, have some lovely clean capture shots without any upscaling.

480p - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
480i Discard - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _Field.png
480i Yadif2x - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
480i Yadif1x - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
480i Yadif2x with correction - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

PDN with each aligned - https://www.dropbox.com/s/tbp6u3ua881hw ... s.pdn?dl=0


This is original Xbox, with official component cables. The cables are direct into the OSSC, which is configured for both 480p and 480i with 858 sample rate, 720 hres, and backporch tweaked to get it centred. Both 480p and 480i outputs are set to passthrough. This is then captured directly by the Vision E1S.
The only thing changed between the two is the resolution. The chain is the same.

480p is the straight passthrough, nothing tweaked, captured from the Vision window at exactly 720x480.
480i is the passthrough captured from the vision window at exactly 720x480, with the deinterlacing set to discard in that application.
480i Yadif2x is the vision captured in OBS at 720x480, XRGB. It is then deinterlaced with Yadif2x.
480i Yadif1x is the same as above, but using Yadif instead.
480i Yadif2x with correction is the same as the third image, except I've applied a filter in order to correct the brightness and contrast issues.


I have done extensive testing on this, with all manner of advanced tweaking on both the OSSC and other software. I have also hooked the Xbox up directly to the Vision so as to rule out the OSSC as an issue, and I get exactly the same results.
The actual 480i output of the Xbox is garbage. It's for some reason extremely bright, and extremely low quality. The easiest place to see this is to look at the Unleash text, you can clearly see the ringing on every single letter. Also look to the right of the yellow text in the menu list, you can see a blue shadow artifact. I am 100% confident that this is the actual, accurately captured output.
Considering the 480p output is absolutely fine, I'm also positive it's not an issue with the cables. I've also tested this with an RGB SCART cable, and got the exact same results.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:16 pm 


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thank you!

I would go as far as to agree that indeed 480i is certainly no alternative for capture or for any use on a progressive display, but on a 480i-only CRT, the XBOX's output signal looks alright. The anti-blur patch for 480i output might make a difference as well, don't you think?

What personally bothers me much more about the XBOX's output is the internal background scaling, which never allows you to get perfect horizontal pixel seperation despite setting the sampling rate just right. FBX went into some detail on this one a while back.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:31 pm 


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Jademalo wrote:
Hard disagree there.


An original xbox version 1.3 plugged with the HD Pack, with high-end RCA to BNC component cables that you can see here: https://tmraudio.com/product/tj-217 (the component cables that Microsoft included together with the HD Pack are apparently of low quality.)

That, plugged on a CRT broadcast monitor and output in 480i is certainly not "absolutely goddamn awful", that is an absolute exaggeration, again it is not that far removed from 480i component that you can get from other consoles, certainly nothing out of the ordinary.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:35 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
thank you!

I would go as far as to agree that indeed 480i is certainly no alternative for capture or for any use on a progressive display, but on a 480i-only CRT, the XBOX's output signal looks alright. The anti-blur patch for 480i output might make a difference as well, don't you think?

What personally bothers me much more about the XBOX's output is the internal background scaling, which never allows you to get perfect horizontal pixel seperation despite setting the sampling rate just right. FBX went into some detail on this one a while back.


Np, always good to have proper examples =p
Ooh, what anti-blur patch? I'm not familiar with that.

Yeah, the Xbox really isn't great lol. It does look fine on a CRT, but my current goal is to try and get as good a capture as I possibly can out of 480i. I've got a friend who speedruns a 480i only Xbox game, and capturing it well is a nightmare. We modded it as a test to force 480p output the other day, and the difference is insane. The Xbox's 480p output is, while not perfect due to the weird internal scaling of some elements, at least a fairly clean output.

Interestingly, the custom dashboard that I've been using to test (since it has pure black and pure white) is really convenient, since the UNLEASH text and the big X don't have any of the Xbox's weird scaling going on. The black outline around the boxes is also perfectly crisp. It makes confirming 858 as the correct sample rate and dialing in a good sampling phase surprisingly easy.
You can see though just looking at the text that there's a lot of scaling still going on with some elements.

This image from earlier shows that really clearly - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png



Lawfer wrote:
Jademalo wrote:
Hard disagree there.


An original xbox version 1.3 plugged with the HD Pack, with high-end RCA to BNC component cables that you can see here: https://tmraudio.com/product/tj-217 (the component cables that Microsoft included together with the HD Pack are apparently of low quality.)

That, plugged on a CRT broadcast monitor and output in 480i is certainly not "absolutely goddamn awful", that is an absolute exaggeration, again it is not that far removed from 480i component that you can get from other consoles, certainly nothing out of the ordinary.


Check the images I've just posted in my larger post above to Fudoh. The 480i output is really, really not good, and has a lot of issues other than being interlaced.

I've been able to get extremely good 480i results from consoles like the Gamecube and Wii, and even the interlaced modes of the N64. Generally you can expect a clean output with 480i, the main issue being obviously the interlacing. The base 480i output of the Xbox is not good, and it's nothing to do with the interlacing. Each horizontal scanline itsself is really bad.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:42 pm 


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Jademalo wrote:
Check the images I've just posted in my larger post above to Fudoh. The 480i output is really, really not good, and has a lot of issues other than being interlaced.

I've been able to get extremely good 480i results from consoles like the Gamecube and Wii, and even the interlaced modes of the N64. Generally you can expect a clean output with 480i, the main issue being obviously the interlacing. The base 480i output of the Xbox is not good, and it's nothing to do with the interlacing. Each horizontal scanline itsself is really bad.


On my setup Xbox 480i component is pretty good, better than Wii at least.


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