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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:21 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
Yeah I'll take a few pics, assuming I manage to get something good out of my damn camera (technically not a bad one but hard to handle/control, drives me mad :x )


EDIT: damn that was a pain, I need a better camera, or to learn photography (or both)
And damn tinypic resizes pictures that big, you have to click then right-click>view image and re-click to see a decent one, still compressed but okay you'll get the idea.

THIS ONLY FROM THE VERTICAL+HORIZONTAL MODE, in x3 @ about 50%~56% strenght with very little hybrid like 12%~18%.
(for taking custom mode shots, especially in x5, i'll need to study my camera a bit and use a better host, but anyone's welcome to try :p)

- nope no 960p shots yet, y'all wait -

quackshot (md)
http://i67.tinypic.com/200757q.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/2ebr820.jpg

thunder force iv (md)
http://i65.tinypic.com/ogyw7b.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/2i591k.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/335h53l.jpg

tales of phantasia (ps1)
http://i66.tinypic.com/zycxv.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/4ta4o5.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/14ad5qp.jpg

tomb raider (ps1)
http://i65.tinypic.com/6qd7i8.jpg

sonic (md)
http://i65.tinypic.com/2yn3qso.jpg


Amazing shots, Xyga, thanks for sharing! Looks so much better than the separate SLG+OSSC setup I have. (Please post more!)

Thank you for this, Marqs, what an incredible update.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:00 am 


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Xyga wrote:
Yeah I'll take a few pics, assuming I manage to get something good out of my damn camera (technically not a bad one but hard to handle/control, drives me mad :x )


EDIT: damn that was a pain, I need a better camera, or to learn photography (or both)
And damn tinypic resizes pictures that big, you have to click then right-click>view image and re-click to see a decent one, still compressed but okay you'll get the idea.

THIS ONLY FROM THE VERTICAL+HORIZONTAL MODE, in x3 @ about 50%~56% strenght with very little hybrid like 12%~18%.
(for taking custom mode shots, especially in x5, i'll need to study my camera a bit and use a better host, but anyone's welcome to try :p)

- nope no 960p shots yet, y'all wait -

quackshot (md)
http://i67.tinypic.com/200757q.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/2ebr820.jpg

thunder force iv (md)
http://i65.tinypic.com/ogyw7b.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/2i591k.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/335h53l.jpg

tales of phantasia (ps1)
http://i66.tinypic.com/zycxv.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/4ta4o5.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/14ad5qp.jpg

tomb raider (ps1)
http://i65.tinypic.com/6qd7i8.jpg

sonic (md)
http://i65.tinypic.com/2yn3qso.jpg

good taste in demonstration games


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 8:51 am 


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Xyga wrote:
Yeah I'll take a few pics, assuming I manage to get something good out of my damn camera (technically not a bad one but hard to handle/control, drives me mad :x )


EDIT: damn that was a pain, I need a better camera, or to learn photography (or both)
And damn tinypic resizes pictures that big, you have to click then right-click>view image and re-click to see a decent one, still compressed but okay you'll get the idea.

THIS ONLY FROM THE VERTICAL+HORIZONTAL MODE, in x3 @ about 50%~56% strenght with very little hybrid like 12%~18%.
(for taking custom mode shots, especially in x5, i'll need to study my camera a bit and use a better host, but anyone's welcome to try :p)

Waaaaaaat. :shock:
You weren't joking, this is AMAZING. Wow.

Oh, and thanks for taking the time for those pics!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:57 am 


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Additional Tomb Raider shots, still x3 but in Custom SL mode now.
I've realized the first mistake is to assume you need strong horizontal lines and light vertical ones, then increase hybrid to compensate.
So here I've done the opposite, which same as with crt shaders works well for hiding scaling artifacts (uneven lines thickness)
My monitor's brightness and sharpness maxed out, contrast at 90%.
    multiplication
    sub-line 3: 37%
    sub-column 1: 50%
    hybrid: 0%

There's four of the same scene only because I'm still fighting my camera and couldn't decide.
Sorry, neither accurately reproduces the brightness and colors I'm actually seeing, 4th one is closest in that aspect, and tinypic compression still applies (again: view at maximum size)
http://i66.tinypic.com/152z39y.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/2h52xx5.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/1zdx8v5.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/e5i782.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 12:51 pm 


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I played around with the custom scanlines setting briefly and wow - what a gamechanger. As well as simulating phosphors to some extent, this allows for much more convincing scanlines in general. On 5x for example, you can have a 1px dark line with a lighter line either side. They end up being fairly thick, yet also don't overwhelm the image and even have better looking bloom (used in conjunction with the hybrid setting).

Snapped a couple pics after a few minutes playing around but there are so many possible combinations here it's mindblowing.

(Click to embiggen)
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:41 pm 


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x5 closeup of a simple 1 horz + 1 vert pattern with hybrid.

Image
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:49 pm 


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marqs wrote:
line strength takes precedence for overlapping pixels if set higher than 0%


It would be really nice if this could be flipped on a toggle, not sure how feasible that is though.

Xyga wrote:
x5 closeup of a simple 1 horz + 1 vert pattern with hybrid.

I really like this idea, I was trying something similar but ended up with very thick vertical scanlines, didn't think about splitting each pixel in two like that.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:46 pm 


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Are you actually in x5 mode ? here iam on x5 1080p (generic 4:3 resulting in 1:1 with cut top/bottom since my monitor supports it)


Another shoot, this time 2 horz (sublines 1&5) + 1 vert, with hybrid. Makes things rounder.
It's harder to capture though, can't compress that.

Image
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 4:08 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
(generic 4:3 resulting in 1:1 with cut top/bottom since my monitor supports it)


Ahh I was using optimized timings. Makes sense in generic 4:3 the sample rate is super high so many more vertical lines.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 4:20 pm 


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Yeah I've used generic 4:3 for everything (only tried 512x240 fo PS1 which wasn't bad)
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:52 pm 


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I was just playing around with 5x mode and generic 4:3 too. This is just the standard horizontal + vertical mode. I quite like it:

https://i.imgur.com/uGoc9Im.jpg - Turtles on Mega Drive
https://i.imgur.com/KO4evoA.jpg - X-Men vs Street Fighter on Saturn

It also hides the last bit of jailbars on my Mega Drive 1 almost completely.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 9:37 pm 


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Has anyone got any experience with capturing an Original Xbox in 480i?
Trying to get a good capture, but there seems to be something really weird going on.

I'm trying to get this setup going for a friend who speedruns a game that requires 480i on original Xbox. 480p results in heavy lag so it's not an option.
The intention was to use the OSSC to digitise the 480i signal cleanly with passthrough, then capture it with the Vision E1s. From there, we could apply whatever deinterlacing we wished, since latency was not an issue.

480p - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
480i - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

I've tried tweaking as much as possible. Tried a whole host of manual sample rate settings, output resolutions, tweaked pretty much every setting in the thing.
These were taken with the same setup. Xbox, into OSSC with component cables, into Vision E1S.

The 480p capture is definitely accurate, which is 858/720. Using that for the 480i capture looks awful, but so does absolutely everything else I've tried.
Even using RGB SCART instead of component gives the same results.

Is this an issue with the Xbox? Is the 480i output just absolutely godawful?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:26 pm 


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So naturally the introduction of vertical lines in anything but x5 pixel-perfect mode might have the side-effect of revealing your display's scaling flaws, in the form of ugly wavy patterns.
To minimize that you can play with the vertical and horizontal strenghts and you'll eventually find settings that make those less visible.

Then as I was in x3 trying extreme strenght levels, which works well to hide scaling artifacts but looks very dark and therefore challenges your display, I went to boost the Pre-ADC to compensate...

...and interestingly this setting happens to have a significant influence on the matter.
For instance decreasing Pre-ADC to 6 I've found it easier to eliminate the wavy patterns.
Of course this means darker, but after re-balancing the strenghts and my monitor's settings I could achieve a clean, bright-enough picture (mostly) free of ugly scaling artifacts.

8)

Yeah, there's definitely more to explore, in any case the OSSC is one hell of a machine.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:39 pm 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 225
Try out this setting and see how it turns out.

Sub-Line

1. 100
2. 0
3. 6
4. 0
5. 100

Sub-Column

1. 100
2. 18
3. 0
4. 0
5. 0
6. 0

Hybrid / Subtraction: 0 - 31

Currently my Pre-ADC for the Wii VC is at 9, but the main thing is I got the scanline effect for x5 a little different from what I was expecting and it's pretty interesting compared to what's already posted.


Edit: oh if you want a quick 1up on those BVM owners and feel like pissing Phonedork off :lol: , set lines 1 thru 5 to 100, but keep 3 on 6.

Enjoy the thinnest bacon scanline strips you'll ever see.
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Last edited by headlesshobbs on Tue May 21, 2019 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:54 pm 


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Quote:
I was just playing around with 5x mode and generic 4:3 too. This is just the standard horizontal + vertical mode. I quite like it:

https://i.imgur.com/uGoc9Im.jpg - Turtles on Mega Drive
https://i.imgur.com/KO4evoA.jpg - X-Men vs Street Fighter on Saturn

It also hides the last bit of jailbars on my Mega Drive 1 almost completely.


That looks great :shock:

I'm going to try the new beta f/w tonight, I've got an OLED set up right next to a CRT now, so I can really see how authentic the scanlines look :)
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Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:50 pm 



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Posts: 1233
Can the vertical scanlines be used to hide/mask the horizontal shimmering effect caused by non-square pixels on fixed-pixel displays?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:29 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2017
Posts: 36
So here are a few pics from what I came up (It's hard to stop changing the setting).

OSSC

Image
Full size: https://i.ibb.co/FHrTmrz/20190521-122045.jpg

Image
Full size: https://i.ibb.co/mRgq2ny/20190521-122405.jpg


Image
Full size: https://i.ibb.co/2Kh6JY3/20190521-122930.jpg

This were taken on:

TV: 4k oled tv with 100 light, 100 contrast, 50 brightness and 65 color.
OSSC: 5x, generic, 1920x1200, hybrid scanlines 50%, custom scanlines: line 1 100%, line 5 100%, colum 1 75%.

I'm used to play on a sony trinitron, so I tried to get scanlines similar to that. Here are a couple from my crt.


Sony Trinitron:

Image
Full size: https://i.ibb.co/TWhCRvv/20171211-192826.jpg

Image
Full size: https://i.ibb.co/qjkMFRr/20171111-231955.jpg


Open the full size for a better view (specially on the crt pics).

ps:I'm happy :D


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:53 pm 


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If you're into high res VGA monitors you need to try the new scanlines in 480p X2 mode. Coupled with a TV with a great scaler (LGs C8 is what I'm using) or a secondary scaler like the Extron DSC 301 you get a fantastic image. Try horizontal only or horizontal and vertical. At a distance the effect is quite subtle, just like it is on a real high resolution VGA monitor. Well worth a try if you like those kinds of displays.

Of course with the option to set scanline thickness too, we can now scanline those 240p->480p up-converted Dreamcast titles that benefit from it without needing a fancy VGA box with a scanliner in it, though I noticed this only works in 480p x2 mode, not sure if that's a bug or a hardware limitation.

Image480px2 by videogameperfection, on Flickr

(Click through for a better look)
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Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Last edited by BuckoA51 on Sat May 25, 2019 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:39 pm 


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Lacked time to try 480 yet, this'll be for tomorrow.

Anyway, BuckoA51, your links require login, so... :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:15 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 225
I really love that sonic pic.

It's a far cry from what I've had to deal with on that crummy cga/vga scaler all those years ago.


I found these other two of search which I think are the most similar. It kinda looks closer to those, but I think on the x5 setting it may be possible to do a full replication of them.

http://raster.effect.free.fr/tv/photos_ ... te_008.jpg
http://raster.effect.free.fr/tv/photos_ ... ic_02c.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:24 pm 



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Really excited for the inevitable "Here are the best settings" for the new scanline options. These are looking really authentically CRT, or at least close enough, and I may finally give the scanlines a try once they've been dialed in. Long as I don't have to have different settings for every different source, anyway. I just use the generic 4:3 settings.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:23 pm 


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thebigcheese wrote:
Really excited for the inevitable "Here are the best settings" for the new scanline options.

There won't really be one as it's like crt shaders; not everyone seeks the same thing and this time individual display specs and settings play a big role, so someone telling 'best' will be for his particular taste and setup.
Discovering tips and directions are what's essential (well, of course there will be case where people have the exact same setup...)

For me I've concluded that for the MD @ x3 with Pre-ADC @ 5 I'm almost guaranteed to see an artifacts-free picture that's bright-enough without even maxing-out my monitor's brightness, leaving some latitude for different strenght levels.
Considering I'm doing 720p + my monitor's rare overscan, that's quite incredible.

I have shit I must do yet I'm there playing many old classics with that new feature. Damn. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:13 am 



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Posts: 225
I know we can do aperture grille or solid bvm lines, but I haven't had luck mimicking shadow mask and got some weird bar shape as a result (seriously, it looked like a bar!)

I think there's something a bit odd with 960p modes because any content that is pre-line doubled 240p (something I was using the slg with) looks perfect, but 240p content doesn't exactly come out as evenly for some odd reason. I'd like to see some extra work on allowing the same settings features as you do 1-5, otherwise it's just 2 lines I'm forced to work with. Lucky 480ix2 doesn't look to suffer the same and I have yet to get my PS2 hooked up for some SF:Anniversary for that comparison.

Btw, I guess you dnon't need ADC on 9 if you can keep hybrid on multi. For some odd reason TX HDMI loses out on color detail, but DVI doesn't. I wonder if this is a bug?

Really want to know if there's a way to window frame 960p in 1080p and fool the tv into doing this so it remains scaled accuratly? Can sending out false info on the flag do this?
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:17 am 


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I only realize now but setting a subline to 6% basically nullifies/hides a column where they're crossing.

like if you do

subcolumn 1 : 50%
subline 1: 50%
subline 2: 0%
subline 3: 6%
subline 4: 6%
subline 5: 0%

you get a 'fuzzy line' sort of smoothing without screendoor/grid effect. :D

this is fucking awesome

EDIT: even better IMHO no sublines, only columns:

subcolumn 1: 50% (or stronger)
subcolumn 2: whatever/optional
subline 1: 0%
subline 2: 6%
subline 3: 6%
subline 4: 6%
subline 5: 0% (you can shut that one off too to make it look even thinner/optional)

This is funny because you can use columns to make lines, lines actually made of little dots or bars. 8)
I used to try something similar with .png's in MAME

Somehow the hardest to capture so far, damn camera, but you get the idea/pattern:
Image
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:27 pm 



Joined: 23 May 2019
Posts: 1
Hello everyone. I'm planning to buy a 32" monitor/tv in order to play my old consoles via the ossc. Lag should definitely be at the minimum.

@Xyga: I've seen some earlier posts where you and another person recommended the viewsonic vx3211-mh, the full-hd version. Since i've stumbled upon the 4k version of the same vx3211-mh model type, i wondered, does this have exactly same qualities (compatibility etc..) as the 2k version apart from the max resolution? Do you guys still use/recommend the 2k version or perhaps upgraded to the 4k one or something completely else as a 32" solution?

Hoping not to be rude by just posting my stuff here right away. Greetings, Huber


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:58 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
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remind why the dejitter mod is necessary? seems like if the SNES runs at 60.08hz, it does not lose signal. anything else, it does. but what works for me is to just power on/off until I get 60.08hz and I am able to do enjoy 8+ hour sessions without a black screen.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:03 pm 



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MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
remind why the dejitter mod is necessary? seems like if the SNES runs at 60.08hz, it does not lose signal. anything else, it does. but what works for me is to just power on/off until I get 60.08hz and I am able to do enjoy 8+ hour sessions without a black screen.

From the Questions that do not deserve a thread thread:
nmalinoski wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:
Can I get a quick explanation of the jitter these systems are producing?

Paraphrasing the first post in the NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod thread, the last pre-render scanline (line 14) before the first visible scanline (15) gets cut short every other frame. That leads to inconsistent frame timing, which modern equipment generally does not like (particularly 1080p displays); and it offsets the first visible scanline by 1 pixel every other frame, causing (what I'm interpreting to be) some horizontal jitter/shimmering.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:10 pm 



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nmalinoski wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
remind why the dejitter mod is necessary? seems like if the SNES runs at 60.08hz, it does not lose signal. anything else, it does. but what works for me is to just power on/off until I get 60.08hz and I am able to do enjoy 8+ hour sessions without a black screen.

From the Questions that do not deserve a thread thread:
nmalinoski wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:
Can I get a quick explanation of the jitter these systems are producing?

Paraphrasing the first post in the NES/SNES 240p dejitter mod thread, the last pre-render scanline (line 14) before the first visible scanline (15) gets cut short every other frame. That leads to inconsistent frame timing, which modern equipment generally does not like (particularly 1080p displays); and it offsets the first visible scanline by 1 pixel every other frame, causing (what I'm interpreting to be) some horizontal jitter/shimmering.


idk at 60.08hz it is fine for me, no sync issues and feels very smooth without shortstops. the jitter mod seems to be an unnecessarily autistic solution


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:22 pm 


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Don't do it then?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:25 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
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MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
idk at 60.08hz it is fine for me, no sync issues and feels very smooth without shortstops. the jitter mod seems to be an unnecessarily autistic solution


Well congrats that you're able to get yours to sync with a good probability. For the rest of us, we needed something more reliable. I'm not sure if it was new cables, or upgrading to the 0.82 firmware, or what, but my NES became frustratingly unstable until I recently had it de-jittered.


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