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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:41 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
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Xyga wrote:
Had to boost the monitor's brightness significantly of course, and the contrast a bit too (some colors or gamma adjustments might be necessary depending on the display) but that's not a problem. Funnily the monitor's sharpness control turned into a quick brightness booster when I increase it above the neutral setting, which looks good and is very useful.

Only one thing would make that mode even better; separate strenght setting for the vertical lines (dunno if that's technically possible)


That happened to be one of the best things I liked during my testing when I turn the sharpness up, the details really POP on screen like a crt does. I just think it's a little too sharp for my case and I usually prefer the hybrid option to make up the difference.

I'm not sure if you said there were separate scanline strengths for both horizontal/vertical. Part of the reason why I had an slg on the chain in the first place was to have these controls and imitate various displays from standard crts, to a Trinitron/Wega. Anyway since some games are getting linedoubled from the start, how's 4x (960p) look?

I'm planning to upgrade my firmware once everything is sorted out, but I'll see whether I'm brave enough to try the beta. Probably not (bok bok)

Edit: btw I'm reading about that overlay sampling and I'm not sure if it applies to the same thing MAME does where you draw your own graphic overlay. If it ends up being the case, I'm pretty sure I can dig up some of the stuff I was messing around with a decade ago and see if it can be applied here.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:08 am 


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No they're not separate, if you set horizontal+vertical mode, strenght 50%, that's something like 50%+50% so it looks a bit like a grid.
Hybrid mitigates that but the best would be to make the two strenghts independant to have e.g 50%+25%

Haven't tried with 960p yet, surely later.


edit; no idea for the custom mode yet, if it's indeed like the .png overlays in MAME then it's something I still use and like. in any case whatever it is on the ossc i'm sure we'll like it. ^^
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:14 am 



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Xyga wrote:
No they're not separate, if you set horizontal+vertical mode, strenght 50%, that's something like 50%+50% so it looks a bit like a grid.


Well that blows.

The only other workaround is if your display has a setting that allows h/v sharpness to be configured. Not all tv's have this and I feel sorry for PC only users.



Edit: Here's a repost of an old video where I was altering the line strength. You'll notice quite a bit of difference where they're not at the same level and allowing you to better implement the correct values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dBiBdIQ6_4
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:21 pm 


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Don't get me wrong it looks awesome already. 8)

Anyway marqs will surely tell us more later, also about that custom feature.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:29 pm 



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Yeah I hope so.

Being able to squirrel around with patterns for different rgb monitor effects in mame was great back in the day and I'd love the opportunity to do this again at some point. I really hope some of the functions will take advantage of color tiles because the picture would always end up looking dim on my setup. keke
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:03 pm 



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ldeveraux wrote:
Hmm, powering my OSSC via USB seems to have caused a hum in my speakers. It doesn't matter where I plug the USB, it's pretty annoying. Maybe I'll go back to the standard wall power supply.

My understanding is that most USB power supplies intended for charging devices like phones are quite noisy and unsuitable for AV applications. Let us know if the original PSU fixes the noise issue.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:53 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:13 pm 



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nmalinoski wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Hmm, powering my OSSC via USB seems to have caused a hum in my speakers. It doesn't matter where I plug the USB, it's pretty annoying. Maybe I'll go back to the standard wall power supply.

My understanding is that most USB power supplies intended for charging devices like phones are quite noisy and unsuitable for AV applications. Let us know if the original PSU fixes the noise issue.


I mean, I've been using the OSSC with original power supply for a year now no issues. It's not a matter of fixing it, more that what I tried broke it! I could try a power adapter that removes the data leads from the series and only allows power through. Worth a shot. Or I could just leave it plugged in and not worry about it...


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:22 pm 


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I'm trying to use an OSSC to display JAMMA video. From what I'm reading, I should NOT use the SCART input for this purpose, because JAMMA video is too high voltage for that input. Can I wire JAMMA video directly into the VGA input? Would I need any resistors or adjustment pots in between the JAMMA edge and the VGA connector?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:42 pm 


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StarCreator wrote:
I'm trying to use an OSSC to display JAMMA video. From what I'm reading, I should NOT use the SCART input for this purpose, because JAMMA video is too high voltage for that input. Can I wire JAMMA video directly into the VGA input? Would I need any resistors or adjustment pots in between the JAMMA edge and the VGA connector?


When you get an opportunity, you might be happier if you pick up a supergun to handle that for you. Member RGB's HAS supergun is highly regarded.

(Apologies if you already knew and decided you wanted to handle it yourself.)
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:52 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
When you get an opportunity, you might be happier if you pick up a supergun to handle that for you. Member RGB's HAS supergun is highly regarded.

(Apologies if you already knew and decided you wanted to handle it yourself.)

This is actually inside an HD arcade cabinet that I'm trying to modify to handle older games. I'm only in need of a solution for video, everything else is already wired.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:02 pm 


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StarCreator wrote:
I'm trying to use an OSSC to display JAMMA video. From what I'm reading, I should NOT use the SCART input for this purpose, because JAMMA video is too high voltage for that input. Can I wire JAMMA video directly into the VGA input? Would I need any resistors or adjustment pots in between the JAMMA edge and the VGA connector?

The RGB levels for SCART and VGA are the same. Do not connect JAMMA RGB to the VGA port


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:12 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
The RGB levels for SCART and VGA are the same. Do not connect JAMMA RGB to the VGA port

Thanks. What solution would you suggest? I've seen some online sources say an in-line resistor on sync is enough to attenuate the signal, and others insisting a video buffer is needed to do it properly.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:37 pm 



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maxtherabbit wrote:
StarCreator wrote:
I'm trying to use an OSSC to display JAMMA video. From what I'm reading, I should NOT use the SCART input for this purpose, because JAMMA video is too high voltage for that input. Can I wire JAMMA video directly into the VGA input? Would I need any resistors or adjustment pots in between the JAMMA edge and the VGA connector?

The RGB levels for SCART and VGA are the same. Do not connect JAMMA RGB to the VGA port

Video signals, sure; but isn't sync coming off the JAMMA edge going to be 5Vp-p TTL? Running that into the SCART input would damage the OSSC, whereas AV3 requires 5Vp-p TTL for both composite and separate sync.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 6:41 pm 


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StarCreator wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
The RGB levels for SCART and VGA are the same. Do not connect JAMMA RGB to the VGA port

Thanks. What solution would you suggest? I've seen some online sources say an in-line resistor on sync is enough to attenuate the signal, and others insisting a video buffer is needed to do it properly.

The vga is the preferred JAMMA RGBS connection as it handles sync issues.

And the +5 v line is separate from sync on JAMMA so it can configured either way.

There is no difference between JAMMA rgb and others. For Compatability I would still use a super gun in your cab
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:52 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
StarCreator wrote:
I'm trying to use an OSSC to display JAMMA video. From what I'm reading, I should NOT use the SCART input for this purpose, because JAMMA video is too high voltage for that input. Can I wire JAMMA video directly into the VGA input? Would I need any resistors or adjustment pots in between the JAMMA edge and the VGA connector?

The RGB levels for SCART and VGA are the same. Do not connect JAMMA RGB to the VGA port

Video signals, sure; but isn't sync coming off the JAMMA edge going to be 5Vp-p TTL? Running that into the SCART input would damage the OSSC, whereas AV3 requires 5Vp-p TTL for both composite and separate sync.

I don't know much about JAMMA video, but my understanding was that the RGB lines (forget sync for now) generally either have too much DC offset and/or are too high of an amplitude to be used with SCART or VGA connections.

Not something I've ever messed with since I don't own any arcade PCBs, so I really can't comment further


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:56 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
Video signals, sure; but isn't sync coming off the JAMMA edge going to be 5Vp-p TTL? Running that into the SCART input would damage the OSSC, whereas AV3 requires 5Vp-p TTL for both composite and separate sync.

Hoagtech wrote:
The vga is the preferred JAMMA RGBS connection as it handles sync issues.

And the +5 v line is separate from sync on JAMMA so it can configured either way.

There is no difference between JAMMA rgb and others. For Compatability I would still use a super gun in your cab

OK, so I can run JAMMA RGBS straight into the VGA input of the OSSC then?

The cabinet already has power, audio, and controls hooked up. Adapting all that to use a supergun instead seems like needless complication. I just need to know if the JAMMA RGBS lines can go straight into the OSSC or if they have to be manipulated in some way.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:03 pm 


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OK, so I can run JAMMA RGBS straight into the VGA input of the OSSC then?

you shouldn't. The RGB levels aren't really standarized and can vary quite a bit. What you do is to get a bunch of variable resistors which you solder in the RGB lines. This way you can start at a higher resistance level and then decrease it until you get the proper brightness levels. Just a few $ extra and it's worth it. On the VGA input you don't have to worry about the sync level.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:10 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
you shouldn't. The RGB levels aren't really standarized and can vary quite a bit. What you do is to get a bunch of variable resistors which you solder in the RGB lines. This way you can start at a higher resistance level and then decrease it until you get the proper brightness levels. Just a few $ extra and it's worth it. On the VGA input you don't have to worry about the sync level.

OK, thanks, I was primarly concerned about breaking the OSSC.

I think I'm going to wire the RGB lines through a series of potentiometers rather than have a bunch of resistors on hand that would have to be changed out if one game behaves differently. Thanks for all the help everyone!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 3:47 am 



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Re your comment about pots... That's exactly what Fudoh was saying, VARIABLE resistors. As in trimpots that can be adjusted to various resistance levels. I'd suggest 1K wired as a voltage divider.

A video buffer is needed if you want to do it properly. It places the arcade board under the correct load and ensures correct impedance.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 7:40 am 


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Xyga wrote:
Only one thing would make that mode even better; separate strenght setting for the vertical lines (dunno if that's technically possible)


As for the custom scanlines mode, well I haven't figured how it works yet. :mrgreen:
That's exactly what you can do with the pattern customization. For example, consider running a game in line5x 320x240 optim. mode which maps one source pixel to 5px x 5px output pattern. Under "Custom Sl." menu, you can then set separate scanline overlay strength for sub-lines 1-5 and sub-columns 1-5 (line strength takes precedence for overlapping pixels if set higher than 0%).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 7:46 am 


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marqs wrote:
Xyga wrote:
Only one thing would make that mode even better; separate strenght setting for the vertical lines (dunno if that's technically possible)


As for the custom scanlines mode, well I haven't figured how it works yet. :mrgreen:
That's exactly what you can do with the pattern customization. For example, consider running a game in line5x 320x240 optim. mode which maps one source pixel to 5px x 5px output pattern. Under "Custom Sl." menu, you can then set separate scanline overlay strength for sub-lines 1-5 and sub-columns 1-5 (line strength takes precedence for overlapping pixels if set higher than 0%).

Are there specific requirements for this though? because I did try thinking maybe it would be something like that, but nothing happens when I move the sliders.

edit: give me moment to try again
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:27 am 


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Xyga wrote:
Are there specific requirements for this though? because I did try thinking maybe it would be something like that, but nothing happens when I move the sliders.

"Sl. type" must be set to "Custom" for them to be effective.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:27 am 


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*slaps forehead brutally* indeed I was on the wrong mode, assuming the sliders were for fine-tuning vertical+horizontal mode. :oops:
Didn't even notice there was one more > to 'Custom' :mrgreen:

So yeah this is magnificent, x5 mode is something entirely new, it's like I've just received a new machine.
There's enough granularity with each sub-line setting to make the look change with a single increment, plus hybrid, so a big warning for OCD people; this will be your new drug.

Bet this new feature demands 1:1 compatibility in x5, or at the very least irreproachable scaling.
For lesser modes x3 and x4 it's up to the display's scaling performance and several things I have to explore further now.

In any case this is a game-changer, yesterday just with the basic vertical+horizontal mode I couldn't stop going through many games to witness all the good this does to the graphics, it's really bringing the pixel art back to life.
edit: this is somewhat close to an emu crt shader like 'easy-mode' IMHO.

Golden kudos to you marqs. 8)


EDIT: with x3 the same rules to crt shaders apply; in case of annoying uneven scaling artifacts in the background (usually more apparent on plain colors), then lighter scanlines and mask effect blend better. Or the opposite; very strong ones to make dots look like phosphors (in which case pushing up the display's brightness and contrast a lot will be necessary)
Increasing the display's sharpness setting is good both in x3 and x5. well, at least on my monitor it is.
Oddly I find starting with substraction easier, at least in x3.
This is really great. :D
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 2:37 am 


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Could someone share a test build without audio?

I would rather not make a VM and install an entire build environment for a one time use.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:02 am 


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I haven't bricked mine (dvi ossc) with that build if that's the concern.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:51 am 


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Xyga wrote:
I've tried only the horizontal+vertical scanlines mode so far, with a megadrive, it looks great in x3 and x5 on my monitor.

Indeed, effing great with MVS as well :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:43 am 


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Just popped the PS1 and it's gorgeous in x3. :o
No scaling issues here my monitor handles this factor very well.
In fact this crt effect makes even the 512x240 mode look good with some games.

The vertical+horizontal mode is actually good for setting a quick crt look, like if you're in a hurry or don't want to bother with fine details.
IMHO it's better for a fast access to strong settings, like if you want to make it look like phosphors (in a brutal yet awesome very crt~ish fashion), pick that mode, push the strenght and shoot your display's brightness up significantly (maybe contrast and sharpness too) and you'll have what you want. Add some hybrid and you're done.
NB: no kidding for strong settings, say above 50%, a BRIGHT display is required, some monitors even maxed-out might be a bit too dim for that.

Its equal H and V strenght values won't look the best for all contents though, that's where you use the Custom mode instead, and get exactly what you want. *tears of joy*

Next I will revive my DC and have a look at 960p.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:04 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
so a big warning for OCD people; this will be your new drug.


Aye. XD

Mind sharing a couple of pictures of the new effect? Just out of curiosity, as I'm unable to give the test FW a try at least for a few more days.
Of course no problem, in case you can't.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:28 pm 


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Yeah I'll take a few pics, assuming I manage to get something good out of my damn camera (technically not a bad one but hard to handle/control, drives me mad :x )


EDIT: damn that was a pain, I need a better camera, or to learn photography (or both)
And damn tinypic resizes pictures that big, you have to click then right-click>view image and re-click to see a decent one, still compressed but okay you'll get the idea.

THIS ONLY FROM THE VERTICAL+HORIZONTAL MODE, in x3 @ about 50%~56% strenght with very little hybrid like 12%~18%.
(for taking custom mode shots, especially in x5, i'll need to study my camera a bit and use a better host, but anyone's welcome to try :p)

- nope no 960p shots yet, y'all wait -

quackshot (md)
http://i67.tinypic.com/200757q.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/2ebr820.jpg

thunder force iv (md)
http://i65.tinypic.com/ogyw7b.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/2i591k.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/335h53l.jpg

tales of phantasia (ps1)
http://i66.tinypic.com/zycxv.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/4ta4o5.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/14ad5qp.jpg

tomb raider (ps1)
http://i65.tinypic.com/6qd7i8.jpg

sonic (md)
http://i65.tinypic.com/2yn3qso.jpg
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