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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:12 pm 


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ZellSF wrote:
Input lag would be the big one.


From what I understand the FM has a passthrough mode for the HDMI inputs, so for the situation where you don't need any additional features and your display is compatible, no lag is added. When you need to framerate conversion you can't do that without at least one frame of lag, so it seems the FM's 1 1/2 frames would be pretty good?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:31 pm 



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Would it possible to do 480i to 240p downsample like DDSP on an Extron RXi? Shouldn't that fix most if not all interlacing problems?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:22 pm 


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H6rdc0re wrote:
Would it possible to do 480i to 240p downsample like DDSP on an Extron RXi? Shouldn't that fix most if not all interlacing problems?


Nope. Won't work.

You're assuming all the lines of a theoretical 480 line game's frame buffer are never interpolated and they are mapped directly to alternating sets of fields. In other words, you're assuming the interlaced output is simply a direct representation of "every other line" of clean uninterpolated "pixels" every frame.

That's often not so. Many games employ a flicker filter that "blurs" the image. Because, the raw fields "bleed" into one another, the "double strike" 240p results will appear to flicker. Detail will appear and disappear.

A pair of fields must be identical if you want to "draw" them on the same line.

You can prove this with a Corio2 unit. SNES 240p Test Suite has no flicker filter and Phantasy Zone Collection PS2 lets you turn it off. The Corio2 produces a very nice 240p from 480i in those situations. But, try Phantasy Zone Collection with the filter on or Street Fighter II Turbo on the 3do and you'll get lousy results.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:03 pm 


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Pasky wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
Your standard output will always be 1280x720p in 3x mode. To adjust the aspect ratio of the active image area you can adjust the Line3x mode settings and either set it generic 4:3 or adjust one of the optimized modes (depending on the input resolution of your source). For 256px wide sources (eg SNES) you can choose 3x or 4x, one beinger narrower and the other being wider than 4:3.


So, no.

on the contrary. Wasn't your question if a 960x720p was available in a 1280x720p output signal? Yes, it is. It's the standard settting for using generic 4:3 mode and for a 320px wide output signal you can get the same with the optimized modes.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:59 pm 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
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Fudoh wrote:
To get back to XtraSmiley's problem: I find it weird that a display can't display 768p58 when it has no problems with other vintage systems (also not running at a straight 60Hz) running through the OSSC. If the horizontal timing specs are a problem (like active area vs. backporch), these can be tweaked on the OSSC. Output timings of other 24khz boards (like Model 2/3 should be close enough and these are confirmed working through the OSSC and with most displays).


Thank you Fudoh, I have no idea. ALL my other arcade boards work fine, but this is my first medium resolution PCB I have tried to use.

Can you walk me through what settings I should adjust to try. I'm willing to sit down and go through the menus, but I'm not sure where to start.

Is there a link to the exact settings Model 2/3 use right now? I can start with that!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:43 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
Pasky wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
Your standard output will always be 1280x720p in 3x mode. To adjust the aspect ratio of the active image area you can adjust the Line3x mode settings and either set it generic 4:3 or adjust one of the optimized modes (depending on the input resolution of your source). For 256px wide sources (eg SNES) you can choose 3x or 4x, one beinger narrower and the other being wider than 4:3.


So, no.

on the contrary. Wasn't your question if a 960x720p was available in a 1280x720p output signal? Yes, it is. It's the standard settting for using generic 4:3 mode and for a 320px wide output signal you can get the same with the optimized modes.


When setting 4:3 aspect for 256x240 sources you get something MUCH wider than a 960x720 image in 3x line mode.

Image

So i'm not quite following you. Even the 8:7 aspect ratio is incorrectly sized.

Adjusting the 'Generic 4:3' or 'Optimized for 240p' etc... doesn't seem to do anything other than load some presets in the sampling, ruining the image. I can't find any way to display any source in a 960x720 4:3 image with black bars on the side for a correct 4:3 aspect ratio for any system I've played.

Only solution I've found is to do 2x mode, which stretches the image the size of the full screen and rely on the tv/monitor and set it to 4:3.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:15 pm 


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@Pasky
Quote:
When setting 4:3 aspect for 256x240 sources you get something MUCH wider than a 960x720 image in 3x line mode.

the sample screenshot you posted has been taken in 256x240 optimized mode. With optimized sampling you cannot get a 4:3 ratio. You can merely choose between 3x and 4x on the horizontal. (4x is used in your screenshot). If you don't use the optimized timings, but use the generic 4:3 setting instead, you'll get a 960px active image area instead. Due to the vertical underscan of the most systems (224 lines used instead of 240). The image will still be a little wider than 4:3, but this is as close as you can get without using a secondary scaler with the OSSC.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:24 pm 


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Siap but it looks like China has started knocking this off: https://www.ebay.com/itm/OSSC-Open-Sour ... rk:16:pf:0

I don't get why anyone would buy it given it's not even really cheaper but I wanted to post it as a warning.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:04 pm 



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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Siap but it looks like China has started knocking this off: https://www.ebay.com/itm/OSSC-Open-Sour ... rk:16:pf:0

I don't get why anyone would buy it given it's not even really cheaper but I wanted to post it as a warning.


Honestly, I think it would be worth testing to see how it holds up to the "official" open-source designs that are already available. Though it's easy to say "It's from China so it has to be trash", that's not always the case.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:36 pm 


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What.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:58 pm 


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A batch that fell from the delivery truck ? Blueprints accidentally copied from the factory's database ? China magic ?
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:13 pm 


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144$ on Aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/OSSC-HD ... 33292.html

Obviously the original OSSC is made in china, so apparently the factory just "shared" the blueprints.
Sad case indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:22 pm 



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Well, it is open source. :P


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:22 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
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Exactly, how can it be a knock off? It's not like they are stealing designs from anyone. They're just making it and selling it, same as anyone could do.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:26 pm 


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Manufacturing Contract.
I am sure there was one, but it just slipped under the table and was never seen again.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:35 pm 


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the gerbers are open source ffs, there is no such "stolen blueprint" :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:50 pm 


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You grab one from ebay/aliexpress, turn it on and...it's really a Gonbes ! :D
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:24 pm 


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what's the best place to report bugs in OSSC fw btw?

this thread? VGP? github issue?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:25 pm 


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It might be worse it might not my point was it's cheaper to buy direct anyway if you aren't paying the VAT price.

If a brave soul wants to drop $190 on it to find out I am interested as well. I've bought from China plenty for cost reasons and in general you get what you pay for. Serviceable products that will eventually break from common use. Sometimes you get lucky and catch a gem.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:45 pm 


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I always wondered if a good strategy to have something manufactured would just be to leave all the plans on a poorly secured webserver and wait for the Chinese to clone and sell it :D Have to say those made-by-the-b-shift OSSC's are still quite expensive, not really that tempting. Those enterprising Chinese sellers could make this a whole lot more attractive if they hired a local engineer to add some features!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:55 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
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Until a few days ago, the AliExpress ones were only $129. I guess they raised the price once people noticed them, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:16 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
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I think I'd be pissed at this point, but I dunno anymore. I just know it was a good run while it lasted.

I'll still say Marqs deserves all the credit for this, every single damn bit. I'd say if anything the community needs to get word out to "SUPPORT" the creator at the official site as opposed to supporting anyone who's a Chinese scam artist or anyone (Ebay?) profiting off our group's efforts. People on youtube and RetroRGB need to get the word out.

This whole thing reminds me of the posts where people come up with all these really awesome ideas and builds for arcade cabinets and after awhile I see other people in the US copying them as official products, or you look up Alibaba and there's chinese knockoffs of them all over the place. "0" F's given to anyone who they owe all their profits to. It's such a shame this is the nature of our marketplace, but eventually that's bound to happen on anything.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:01 am 


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headlesshobbs wrote:
I think I'd be pissed at this point, but I dunno anymore. I just know it was a good run while it lasted.

I'll still say Marqs deserves all the credit for this, every single damn bit. I'd say if anything the community needs to get word out to "SUPPORT" the creator at the official site as opposed to supporting anyone who's a Chinese scam artist or anyone (Ebay?) profiting off our group's efforts. People on youtube and RetroRGB need to get the word out.


Dude, what are you talking about, the OSSC is an open source project (it's in the name!) and not something marqs designs for a living. That's like being pissed at the Chinese for making their own Linux distribution. And good on you for still saying "Marqs deserves all the credit for this, every single damn bit", controversial, shocking, but good that somebody has said it. But I guess it's all over now, it was a good run indeed. (WTF...)

I also don't foresee this causing any major issues for VGP. Sure, no EU/US seller will ever be able to compete on price with a Chinese manufacturer and seller, but there are convincing reasons to buy from VGP. You get shipping from the EU (for a few more weeks :D) and don't have customs issues. You get the support of a helpful dude that speaks your language. You get a known level of quality control. You get a 1 year EU warranty and 30 days no-questions-asked return. Especially important with a device like the OSSC that might not work in your setup.


Last edited by ASDR on Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:07 am 



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I just recently bought OSSC and I am now considering suitable monitor for it.
After doing my research, Dell U2417H seems to match my requirements.

Any Dell U2417H users here with OSSC? What is your opinion with this particular monitor?

This sentence previously in other thread got me worried:
Quote:
The Dell displays sound pretty good, but the U2417H suffers from display lag at non-native resolutions.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:27 pm 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
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ASDR wrote:

Dude, what are you talking about, the OSSC is an open source project (it's in the name!) and not something marqs designs for a living. That's like being pissed at the Chinese for making their own Linux distribution. And good on you for still saying "Marqs deserves all the credit for this, every single damn bit", controversial, shocking, but good that somebody has said it. But I guess it's all over now, it was a good run indeed. (WTF...)

I also don't foresee this causing any major issues for VGP. Sure, no EU/US seller will ever be able to compete on price with a Chinese manufacturer and seller, but there are convincing reasons to buy from VGP. You get shipping from the EU (for a few more weeks :D) and don't have customs issues. You get the support of a helpful dude that speaks your language. You get a known level of quality control. You get a 1 year EU warranty and 30 days no-questions-asked return. Especially important with a device like the OSSC that might not work in your setup.


Well that was some of my personal feelings on the matter and I'm glad to actually get that out knowing who did us one of the biggest favors any gamer could ever ask for. I've always known China for stealing and creating bootlegs of licensed and copyrighted materials, so I'm not at all surprised that this has showed up. I know not of what is going on behind the scenes or any under the table dealings, but I pretty much see them as taking away from the community. When I said this was a good run, I meant that there's now going to be a fair number of sales to someone who's only likely to be in it for the quick buck. It may have an impact in some form in the long term and if it could be anything regarding improving the ossc or development on an updated model, it's something I definitely take alert to.

Your analogy on open source and using linux for comparison I can somewhat agree with, but as I said I stand by my personal feelings on this. The OSSC is a project design of and for our community and that's the major difference if there's no support for these projects in our circles. If Marqs is fine with it, well great. But I do see ourselves with a problem that's likely not going to change anytime soon.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:36 pm 



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headlesshobbs wrote:
Well that was some of my personal feelings on the matter and I'm glad to actually get that out knowing who did us one of the biggest favors any gamer could ever ask for. I've always known China for stealing and creating bootlegs of licensed and copyrighted materials, so I'm not at all surprised that this has showed up. I know not of what is going on behind the scenes or any under the table dealings, but I pretty much see them as taking away from the community. When I said this was a good run, I meant that there's now going to be a fair number of sales to someone who's only likely to be in it for the quick buck. It may have an impact in some form in the long term and if it could be anything regarding improving the ossc or development on an updated model, it's something I definitely take alert to.

Your analogy on open source and using linux for comparison I can somewhat agree with, but as I said I stand by my personal feelings on this. The OSSC is a project design of and for our community and that's the major difference if there's no support for these projects in our circles. If Marqs is fine with it, well great. But I do see ourselves with a problem that's likely not going to change anytime soon.


But it's not a bootleg. It's just as "official" as the VGP version. That's how open source works. It is quite literally exactly the same as Linux in that regard. The whole point is to make it easy for anyone to make and update. You can order all the parts yourself if you want to. I suspect the Aliexpress version is only cheaper because they can grab parts more directly from the factory instead of going through a middleman. But given how close the pricing still is, you can see that VGP is probably not making much profit on the OSSC. Honestly the real benefit of ordering from VGP is getting the device in a week or two instead of months later...


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:42 pm 


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thebigcheese wrote:
headlesshobbs wrote:
Well that was some of my personal feelings on the matter and I'm glad to actually get that out knowing who did us one of the biggest favors any gamer could ever ask for. I've always known China for stealing and creating bootlegs of licensed and copyrighted materials, so I'm not at all surprised that this has showed up. I know not of what is going on behind the scenes or any under the table dealings, but I pretty much see them as taking away from the community. When I said this was a good run, I meant that there's now going to be a fair number of sales to someone who's only likely to be in it for the quick buck. It may have an impact in some form in the long term and if it could be anything regarding improving the ossc or development on an updated model, it's something I definitely take alert to.

Your analogy on open source and using linux for comparison I can somewhat agree with, but as I said I stand by my personal feelings on this. The OSSC is a project design of and for our community and that's the major difference if there's no support for these projects in our circles. If Marqs is fine with it, well great. But I do see ourselves with a problem that's likely not going to change anytime soon.


But it's not a bootleg. It's just as "official" as the VGP version. That's how open source works. It is quite literally exactly the same as Linux in that regard. The whole point is to make it easy for anyone to make and update. You can order all the parts yourself if you want to. I suspect the Aliexpress version is only cheaper because they can grab parts more directly from the factory instead of going through a middleman. But given how close the pricing still is, you can see that VGP is probably not making much profit on the OSSC. Honestly the real benefit of ordering from VGP is getting the device in a week or two instead of months later...


Very much agree with this.

This is not comparable to when the GDEMU got knocked off for example.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:55 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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What's surprising is that it took this long for other vendors to offer preassembled OSSC units. Why was it that for a long time VGP was the only one anyway? Hard to make it profitable without a lot of sales?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:44 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 155
maxtherabbit wrote:
what's the best place to report bugs in OSSC fw btw?

this thread? VGP? github issue?


@maxtherabbit - Use the VGP forum for the bugs, both @BuckoA51 and @marqs frequent that forum.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:50 pm 


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Speaking of @BuckoA51 and @marqs ... I would be highly interested in their opinion on the China-OSSC topic.


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