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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:01 pm 


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Joined: 26 Oct 2012
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Location: Germany
The VX3276-mhd is one of those bezel-less monitors. Looks nifty, but I haven't seen a single one of these without significant backlight bleeding problems.
Afaik, backlight bleeding is introduced by tensions in the panel; gracile, bezel-less designs probably aren't helping in this regard. This is just anecdotal evidence, but of the three VX3211-mhs I had here, not a single one had significant backlight bleeding. As you probably know, the VX3211-mh has chunky bezels and is overall built like a rock. So...!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:06 pm 


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Yes it is entirely possible the new bezel design makes that version more prone to blb.

edit: three ? :o
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:48 pm 


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Yes, three :mrgreen:
See here: https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52158&p=1285517&hilit=Vx3211#p1285517

Ermm... one of the three I still own of course :D


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:17 pm 


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*slaps forehead*
Of course, I had forgotten parts of your monitor quest post. Really reminds how special this monitor is.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:38 am 



Joined: 26 Nov 2018
Posts: 18
Yay, when I came home today I noticed my bleed was not near as bad...it seems to have settled. It's definitely usable.

I am going to add some MINGER music IC bias lights behind it which will help make it pop and remove any small bleed that's left =D yay.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:14 am 


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So, got the overscan thing yet?
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:22 am 



Joined: 26 Nov 2018
Posts: 18
Xyga wrote:
So, got the overscan thing yet?


The whaaat?

I added Bias lighting it completely masks/removes the bleed...looks so good now..just need to decide if I want just warm or cool white or put some RGB back there.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:14 am 


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NewYears1978 wrote:
The whaaat?

*cough*
Xyga wrote:
overscan: use it whenever to zoom the picture like 10%, this hides top and bottom borders where applying (again this option being available anytime for any source is extremely rare on monitors which for the huge majority have this always greyed-out)

Xyga wrote:
Black borders/bars: I think you've missed that this monitor has a rare overscan switch you can use anytime. :wink:

Check the Manual Image Adjust menu. :idea:
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:57 pm 



Joined: 26 Nov 2018
Posts: 18
Xyga wrote:
NewYears1978 wrote:
The whaaat?

*cough*
Xyga wrote:
overscan: use it whenever to zoom the picture like 10%, this hides top and bottom borders where applying (again this option being available anytime for any source is extremely rare on monitors which for the huge majority have this always greyed-out)

Xyga wrote:
Black borders/bars: I think you've missed that this monitor has a rare overscan switch you can use anytime. :wink:

Check the Manual Image Adjust menu. :idea:


I saw it but I didn't understand what it did..so I can use regular 4:3 mode and the use overscan ...hrm....going to test now :)

What settings are you using with the overscan? My current setup was based on FBX videos so was using 4x line mode, 4:3, 256x240 optim.

If I am understanding correctly you use say the same settings but in 4:3 mode, then overscan makes it fit the screen (which of course you still have some weird crap on the screen edge in some games..ie Mario 3 (NES)

Any advise will be helpful, thanks :)

I had grown to ignore the "stretch" when using 4x mode filling to screen (slight horizontal stretch) but it looks much worse on SNES games than NES games). I also am a scanlines guy so I noticed when I mess with overscan and other modes the scanlines often look incorrect sized/spaced.

(The one that appears to look the best to me is 5x mode, 4:3, 256x240 and it has slight bars on the sides)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:15 pm 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 188
I'm wondering if 240p/480i switching can be fixed by having a mode that reads 240p like it's a 480i signal?

I understand this is how tv's work and is why we see them listed as 480i on most lcd's that accept it.

There's also another thought on ossc remembering what the previous signal was so it could automatically switch without delaying itself.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:31 pm 


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It is not that simple unfortunately. There are differences between 480i and 240p that the OSSC cannot change, they are passed onto the TV which is forced to resync.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:51 pm 


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Indeed. The important bit is that the TV is forced to resync; within the OSSC, there is no delay.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:25 pm 


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Hey folks, didn't see it on the monitor/TV compatibility list (though I could be skipping over it somehow), but does anyone have a 'MSI Optix MAG240VC' 1080p144hz monitor? Just ordered one for the new main PC monitor, but have no clue what compatibility will be like. My older ASUS (which will now become the secondary monitor) could take literally anything I sent it, so at least I'll be able to use it for the OSSC if this monitor isn't up to snuff.

Edit: I can confirm that this monitor takes every 240p/480p variant I have the equipment to throw at it. Only gripe is that it wants to change input methods to something with an active signal if there's a drop for more than a second or so, so changing resolutions on a PS2 game, for instance, is a bit of a pain.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:47 am 


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djc5166 wrote:
Been noticing this since .82,

Have my PS1 hooked up SCART RGB, csync mod, 1.6 ossc, line5x, gscartsw, LGB7, most of the time the picture looks fine.

Sometimes however the picture is wobbly (sync related?), hitting the input change on the ossc and coming back fixes it (it remains fixed until power cycling).

It seems to only happen when the input auto detection on the OSSC triggers and goes to the SCART input, but I don't think I've seen it enough times to be sure.


Not sure if it is my setup or something that has changed in .82, I didn't notice it before.


Xyga wrote:
^ I've noticed the same thing with mine but already several firmwares back, it's not a big disturbanc and it's not alway present.
I'm using a DVI OSSC, vanilla scart rgb cable, and full-hd monitor.
No much difference playing with any of the settings afaik.



So its looking like this is only happening when the ossc auto detect is on and detects a signal. With a wobbly picture, if I hit the change input button again, it cycles through and comes back to the scart input and clears up the wobblyness, maybe an issue with the detection?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:38 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 912
djc5166 wrote:
djc5166 wrote:
Been noticing this since .82,

Have my PS1 hooked up SCART RGB, csync mod, 1.6 ossc, line5x, gscartsw, LGB7, most of the time the picture looks fine.

Sometimes however the picture is wobbly (sync related?), hitting the input change on the ossc and coming back fixes it (it remains fixed until power cycling).

It seems to only happen when the input auto detection on the OSSC triggers and goes to the SCART input, but I don't think I've seen it enough times to be sure.


Not sure if it is my setup or something that has changed in .82, I didn't notice it before.


Xyga wrote:
^ I've noticed the same thing with mine but already several firmwares back, it's not a big disturbanc and it's not alway present.
I'm using a DVI OSSC, vanilla scart rgb cable, and full-hd monitor.
No much difference playing with any of the settings afaik.



So its looking like this is only happening when the ossc auto detect is on and detects a signal. With a wobbly picture, if I hit the change input button again, it cycles through and comes back to the scart input and clears up the wobblyness, maybe an issue with the detection?

I think it's possible that this is the pre-existing wobble issue, which is also fixed by changing input and changing back. Although, I don't think this normally happens when you're not using a sync stripper. Your CSync mod taps the CSync output from the video chip, correct?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:15 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
djc5166 wrote:
djc5166 wrote:
Been noticing this since .82,

Have my PS1 hooked up SCART RGB, csync mod, 1.6 ossc, line5x, gscartsw, LGB7, most of the time the picture looks fine.

Sometimes however the picture is wobbly (sync related?), hitting the input change on the ossc and coming back fixes it (it remains fixed until power cycling).

It seems to only happen when the input auto detection on the OSSC triggers and goes to the SCART input, but I don't think I've seen it enough times to be sure.


Not sure if it is my setup or something that has changed in .82, I didn't notice it before.


Xyga wrote:
^ I've noticed the same thing with mine but already several firmwares back, it's not a big disturbanc and it's not alway present.
I'm using a DVI OSSC, vanilla scart rgb cable, and full-hd monitor.
No much difference playing with any of the settings afaik.



So its looking like this is only happening when the ossc auto detect is on and detects a signal. With a wobbly picture, if I hit the change input button again, it cycles through and comes back to the scart input and clears up the wobblyness, maybe an issue with the detection?

I think it's possible that this is the pre-existing wobble issue, which is also fixed by changing input and changing back. Although, I don't think this normally happens when you're not using a sync stripper. Your CSync mod taps the CSync output from the video chip, correct?


Directly from the H7240.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:33 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 188
I need to ask is 240p being pulled off from a 480 line signal?

If so, why can't we apply this on 480i since 240p is a fake resolution anyway? I really do want to take some of my ports and give them proper 5x support.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:38 pm 


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I don’t understand your question, could you elaborate?
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:41 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 188
I've been trying to read up on how 240p is generated as a signal and the idea of it being sent over a 480 line count with only one field active really caught my attention as game consoles are technically sending out 480i. If this is the case as to how the ossc reads it's signal, then many games being scaled and interlaced in their ports can be given the same treatment of 5x and scanlines by doing the same reads with programming to ignore either the even or odd field. This wouldn't work in the same way that extron is trying to convert to 240p, but rather ossc taking 240p lines and using the same process it does for progressive signals from there.

We're already running off of 480 lines anyway, so there should be a way to figure how to work with it.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:46 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 250
Does the OSSC lose sync for a split second when a Genesis/Megadrive switches between 256x240/320x240? It does with the MiSTer so I'm wondering if it does with real hardware too.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:50 pm 


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Yeah seems to.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:53 pm 



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Same on the GBS8200. On a scope you can see how the entire HSync pulse changes width (and gets really large).
It probably affects most analog to digital devices.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:19 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 250
Odd. I would have expected more complaints from people about sync loss then.

rama wrote:
Same on the GBS8200. On a scope you can see how the entire HSync pulse changes width (and gets really large).
It probably affects most analog to digital devices.


Yea looking at timing measurements the Megadrive is doing some very strange things with the HSync pulse in 320 mode.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:01 am 


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paulb_nl wrote:
Does the OSSC lose sync for a split second when a Genesis/Megadrive switches between 256x240/320x240? It does with the MiSTer so I'm wondering if it does with real hardware too.

Yep. Using optimal settings, it can get rather annoying, especially with some Mega CD/SEGA-CD titles, that switch a million times from SEGA logo, to game's intro, to options, to gameplay (Thunderstrike, I'm looking at you). Luckily, it doesn't seem as widespread on the Mega Drive/Genesis: I own only one Mega Drive game that do so consistenly (Splatterhouse Part 3), whereas otherwise it's a pretty defined occurrence (mostly from SEGA logo to actual gameplay). There's a list on FBX site, if you want to take a look.

What really sucks - to me personally - is that I can't fix it by using one generic profile: sure it solves the sync loss, but since the two video modes work on a different H-position, for me - as I like to mask the colored overscan out of the way - that means having to re-center the picture every time there's a resolution change, or dealing with a colored column and a cropped one in either 320 or 256 mode.

I hope an hypothetical OSSC2 will feature some sort of video processing capabilities, because I've recently seen my brother's 50 euros Raspberry Pi in action, and - even though I'm perfectly aware it's a different machine, designed to do different things - it's honestly so much more convenient and life-improving, when it comes to such quirks.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:40 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
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Galdelico wrote:
What really sucks - to me personally - is that I can't fix it by using one generic profile: sure it solves the sync loss,


So you mean you don't have sync loss in generic mode?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:01 am 


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paulb_nl wrote:
So you mean you don't have sync loss in generic mode?

I'll double check and report, but yeah I'd say no, I don't.
One thing I can say is that I'm sure my monitor goes blank for a split second and then shows the AV channel box, when it comes back from a 320/256 resolution swap with optimal timings, whereas this doesn't happen in generic mode. Could it be it still resyncs, but it does it so quickly it doesn't even get noticeable?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:40 pm 


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Quote:
Same on the GBS8200. On a scope you can see how the entire HSync pulse changes width (and gets really large).
It probably affects most analog to digital devices.


yeah Framemeister and DVDOs are also affected.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:42 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
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headlesshobbs wrote:
I've been trying to read up on how 240p is generated as a signal and the idea of it being sent over a 480 line count with only one field active really caught my attention as game consoles are technically sending out 480i. If this is the case as to how the ossc reads it's signal, then many games being scaled and interlaced in their ports can be given the same treatment of 5x and scanlines by doing the same reads with programming to ignore either the even or odd field. This wouldn't work in the same way that extron is trying to convert to 240p, but rather ossc taking 240p lines and using the same process it does for progressive signals from there.

We're already running off of 480 lines anyway, so there should be a way to figure how to work with it.


Technically it is 525 lines, which you will see is what the OSSC reports. They are not technically sending out 480i, they are sending out 240p. There's a good video on the subject of 240p here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwDPx6hP_4Y. There's also some information about the sync aspects here: https://www.hdretrovision.com/blog/2018 ... -the-stage.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:07 am 



Joined: 26 Nov 2018
Posts: 18
I wish someone would create some kind of device that could add overlay bezels when using modes with black bars..lol =D

I don't mind 4x - full screen..but 5x 1920x1080 with some tweaks for pixel perfect...yikes it's stunning. Just have to get used to those stupid black bars (my OCD hates it)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:51 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 188
My alternative to that was TX mode - hdmi with one of the 1200p resolutions. Not using PC labeling pretty much corrected my moir issue and I don't even have overscan.
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