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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:03 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 96
shoot I lost my remote mapping and profiles when I updated :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:56 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 180
...luckily you can re-create them using this handy tool: http://pbnl.byethost7.com/ossc/profiles/?i=1


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:26 pm 


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SavagePencil wrote:
...luckily you can re-create them using this handy tool: http://pbnl.byethost7.com/ossc/profiles/?i=1


Whoa, nice tool. Whoever made it should change some of the advanced timing stuff to input text boxes instead of sliders so you can enter exact values- for most of those people are going to know what they want to enter anyway. Would require some input sanitization and bounds checking but I think it'd be worth the effort.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:43 pm 



Joined: 28 Sep 2017
Posts: 19
Does anyone still do installs of the digital audio board on the 1.5 model? I have one I would like to get it added too.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:20 pm 


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Location: Escondido, CA, USA
I know many of us are active on the VGP forums also, but maybe not all, so hoping someone here has had experience and success optimizing for this particular configuration.

Got and ED64 Plus. Works perfectly on my N64RGB (Tim Worthington board, including deblur) modded N64, and with 320x240 profile optimized for the N64. Didn't have to change anything, going from original carts to the ED64P, not that I expected I would.

I am also playing NES games from the ED64P, but the profile I have optimized for N64 doesn't look great when playing NES games. I also tried setting up a profile per FBX's NES optimization recommendations, and that too did not look great with this configuration (http://www.firebrandx.com/OSSC/OSSC%20- ... Timing.txt). It looks, at a minimum, like the sampling phase needs adjustment, but I can't get it dialed in. I'm using using test suite 240pee-0.08.2 (https://sourceforge.net/projects/testsuite240p/files/NES/) grid pattern, to start.

If it helps, the test suite reports the following:
cycles/line: 113.9
Lines/frame: 262
NMI scanline: 241

It is all NTSC.

Can anyone make recommendations for optimizing for this configuration?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:13 pm 


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Location: Denmark
The new firmware seems to work great, and I think the webtool is a nice way to edit the profiles file.

Now that we have 15 available profiles, it's a bit of a chore having to access 10-14 from the settings menu. Have you considered adding Profile + and - keys so the user could quickly cycle through the named profiles on the display, and press OK to select one. I think that would make a lot of sense, instead of having to remember which profile is stored on which button.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:56 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1256
Konsolkongen wrote:
The new firmware seems to work great, and I think the webtool is a nice way to edit the profiles file.

Now that we have 15 available profiles, it's a bit of a chore having to access 10-14 from the settings menu. Have you considered adding Profile + and - keys so the user could quickly cycle through the named profiles on the display, and press OK to select one. I think that would make a lot of sense, instead of having to remember which profile is stored on which button.

What would be great is if there was some way to automate control of an OSSC, either via USB or network; then it would be feasible to tie profile selection into that web-based CrossPoint input selector--tap PlayStation on your tablet, your CrossPoint changes to the input your PlayStation is on, and your OSSC automatically switches to your PlayStation profile.

Might be better implemented as a mobile app, though; that CrossPoint input selector currently relies on you having a networkable CrossPoint, while an app should be able to connect to multiple networked components, as well as utilize an available IR transmitter.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:17 pm 


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Personally I don't like to use my phone to control anything in my setup. I find it annoying having to unlock it with either fingerprint or password before I can use it. But that's just me.

I just prefer a normal remote.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:46 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1256
Konsolkongen wrote:
Personally I don't like to use my phone to control anything in my setup. I find it annoying having to unlock it with either fingerprint or password before I can use it. But that's just me.

I just prefer a normal remote.

I wasn't thinking about using your phone per se; rather, I was thinking more of a small tablet or a spare phone that you might leave on your coffee table or end table specific for this purpose. You might need a Google or Apple account (depending on platform) to get the app (unless you sideload), but I don't think password/PIN/fingerprint security would be required in this context. One possible, very fancy alternative might something like the Optimus Aux (unfortunately not an actual product), loaded with console icons; just press the one you want.

While I agree with you regarding using your phone, a traditional remote control isn't terribly scalable; it either takes longer to get where you want to go (such as with the proposed sequential profile selection) or requires memorization or a complimentary printed index of inputs, which is even more work.

For me, I'd rather go a step further. I'd like a control device/system that can interface with my switchers and other hardware, detect which device is active, and automatically change input (if I'm using a CrossPoint) and OSSC profile. Hook it up, configure with a web interface, and then all you'd need to do is turn on your console (and maybe your sound system and TV if you don't have HDMI-CEC-compatible equipment).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:26 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 26
With the latest update, the OSSC is seriously near perfect. The extra profiles in particular are a godsend for me—now I can have perfectly tailored color balancing for each and every one of my consoles! Massive thanks to marqs for all the hard work he's donated to the community.

Now the only thing left on my wishlist is line3x support for 640x400. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:08 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 189
I have a question about the line doubler. I setup my Mister which has a scandoubler (I think that's the setting) that drastically changes the look of games as far as smoothing pixels. Is that was Line2x is for the OSSC, or is there a way to mimic that? How do you enable it?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:15 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 71
Any chance that smooth mode from the Retrotink2x can be added for interlaced sources?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:34 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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H6rdc0re wrote:
Any chance that smooth mode from the Retrotink2x can be added for interlaced sources?

I'm sure a smoothing filter could certainly be added; if you specifically want the one from the RT2X, Mike Chi will probably have to donate the algorithm. :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:11 pm 


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ldeveraux wrote:
I have a question about the line doubler. I setup my Mister which has a scandoubler (I think that's the setting) that drastically changes the look of games as far as smoothing pixels. Is that was Line2x is for the OSSC, or is there a way to mimic that? How do you enable it?


What is it you want to achieve, less smoothing or more smoothing?

For the OSSC, smoothing is achieved two ways (and one is not really due to OSSC, but the display). In generic mode, the signal is horizontally oversampled in relation to the original, thus some smoothing occurs. The other way is upscaling by your display. Lower line mode means more upscaling for the display i.e. smoother image (naturally, both horizontally and vertically), higher line mode means sharper image because the display does less (or no) upscaling.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:03 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 502
Can someone explain how to use the internet profile thing? Or point me to somewhere that explains it? How do I load the profiles to the OSSC? Can I export profiles already on my OSSC? I just do not get it at all and the site does not even pretend to explain it...


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:14 pm 


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thebigcheese wrote:
Can someone explain how to use the internet profile thing? Or point me to somewhere that explains it? How do I load the profiles to the OSSC? Can I export profiles already on my OSSC? I just do not get it at all and the site does not even pretend to explain it...


Maybe I should do a youtube video, but in order to load profiles made by that app, you have to flash it to an SD card just like you do with the firmware update files. And no, you can't export profiles from the OSSC, only import, which is done via the flashed SD card.


In other news: I'd like to request another feature in the optimal timing modes of the OSSC: 1024x240. The new 512x240 mode allowed me to do some neat trickery with the Sega 32X by double sampling the horizontal axis versus single vertical. The reason I did this is because the 32X uses the Genesis to display either background or foreground planes, and the two signals cannot be optimally timed together (one plane is always slightly out of phase with the other plane). So by double sampling the horizontal using 512x240 optimal mode, I'm able to dial in one plane, and the other's slight phase shift is less distracting.

Now if we had access to 1024x240 optimal timing for the LineX menus, I would then have 4 sample points on the horizontal per pixel instead of just two. It would make this trick even better looking than it already is now.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:37 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 189
Harrumph wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
I have a question about the line doubler. I setup my Mister which has a scandoubler (I think that's the setting) that drastically changes the look of games as far as smoothing pixels. Is that was Line2x is for the OSSC, or is there a way to mimic that? How do you enable it?


What is it you want to achieve, less smoothing or more smoothing?

For the OSSC, smoothing is achieved two ways (and one is not really due to OSSC, but the display). In generic mode, the signal is horizontally oversampled in relation to the original, thus some smoothing occurs. The other way is upscaling by your display. Lower line mode means more upscaling for the display i.e. smoother image (naturally, both horizontally and vertically), higher line mode means sharper image because the display does less (or no) upscaling.


I'd like more smoothing. As I have it connected currently, all games look like they did years ago. They look brilliant (!) but the same. I'd like to mimic the effect the Mister uses to make it smoother, which I guess is a higher line density? I really don't know, that's why I asked.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:38 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 502
FBX wrote:
thebigcheese wrote:
Can someone explain how to use the internet profile thing? Or point me to somewhere that explains it? How do I load the profiles to the OSSC? Can I export profiles already on my OSSC? I just do not get it at all and the site does not even pretend to explain it...


Maybe I should do a youtube video, but in order to load profiles made by that app, you have to flash it to an SD card just like you do with the firmware update files. And no, you can't export profiles from the OSSC, only import, which is done via the flashed SD card.


Ohhh, I get it now, I think. My confusion stems from trying to have both a firmware update and a profile to import on the card at the same time (since I would need to redo my profiles after updating the firmware anyway). It sounds like I would need to do them separately. On a related note, having to reprogram the OSSC to work with my remote every time the firmware updates is quite tedious and, since I am not using the "official" remote, confusing as I don't remember what buttons I put where. It would be nice if this could be saved separately somehow so that I don't have to redo it when updating. I realize the updates aren't that frequent, so it's a relatively minor inconvenience, but it would still be nice to not have to do it at all.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:41 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 502
ldeveraux wrote:
I'd like more smoothing. As I have it connected currently, all games look like they did years ago. They look brilliant (!) but the same. I'd like to mimic the effect the Mister uses to make it smoother, which I guess is a higher line density? I really don't know, that's why I asked.


It is not a result of the line density. Smoothing is a filter of sorts that can be applied to make things look less pixely. There is a custom firmware for the OSSC that adds some degree of smoothing, but in general the purpose of the OSSC is to present the image exactly as it was (but at higher resolution), so there are not currently any options in the official firmware for such filters. You can read about the custom firmware (and about filters in general) here: https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... s-feature/.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:47 pm 


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I hope that never makes it into the official firmware, if it means it will take up space for something else. It looks horrible :(


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:53 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
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Konsolkongen wrote:
I hope that never makes it into the official firmware, if it means it will take up space for something else. It looks horrible :(


I could possibly see it being useful for N64, maybe even PS1, but I don't think any of them really work in the way I'd want them to work to actually look good. Like Wii U VC runs N64 games at 480p internally, so they end up looking a lot smoother but it's not because of filters. Don't think there's any way to truly replicate that with filters.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:01 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1256
thebigcheese wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:
I hope that never makes it into the official firmware, if it means it will take up space for something else. It looks horrible :(


I could possibly see it being useful for N64, maybe even PS1, but I don't think any of them really work in the way I'd want them to work to actually look good. Like Wii U VC runs N64 games at 480p internally, so they end up looking a lot smoother but it's not because of filters. Don't think there's any way to truly replicate that with filters.

The smoothing would really only work with 3D polygon games, not 2D sprite games. For 2D and pixel art, you really want those sharp edges, but 3D, especially early 3D, can benefit from having those jaggies smoothed out.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:28 pm 


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FBX wrote:
In other news: I'd like to request another feature in the optimal timing modes of the OSSC: 1024x240.
...
Now if we had access to 1024x240 optimal timing for the LineX menus, I would then have 4 sample points on the horizontal per pixel instead of just two. It would make this trick even better looking than it already is now.


Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but it seems to me you can just use generic mode, because the OSSC could not do any pixel repetition in such a mode. Think about it (example for 4x mode): 256x240 opt mode (in ”8:7” mode) pixel repeats 4 times per sample, 512x240 pixel repeats 2 times, thus 1024x240 would pixel repeat once, ie same as input, ie same as generic mode.
Just use a 4x multiple of the optimized sample rate in generic mode, and you’d achieve the same thing. Afaik (and I might be wrong) sample phase does have effect even in generic mode, just that normally it doesnt make much difference, but in this case you would need to adjust it to achieve perfect sampling.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:37 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
thebigcheese wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:
I hope that never makes it into the official firmware, if it means it will take up space for something else. It looks horrible :(


I could possibly see it being useful for N64, maybe even PS1, but I don't think any of them really work in the way I'd want them to work to actually look good. Like Wii U VC runs N64 games at 480p internally, so they end up looking a lot smoother but it's not because of filters. Don't think there's any way to truly replicate that with filters.

The smoothing would really only work with 3D polygon games, not 2D sprite games. For 2D and pixel art, you really want those sharp edges, but 3D, especially early 3D, can benefit from having those jaggies smoothed out.


The only other generally useful reason to have smoothing would be for outputting non-integer-scaled horizontal resolutions, for example to force a 4:3 aspect when the native resolution is not 4:3. Smoothing in the horizontal dimension is all that would be needed, exactly how the Super NT does it.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:31 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
H6rdc0re wrote:
Any chance that smooth mode from the Retrotink2x can be added for interlaced sources?

I'm sure a smoothing filter could certainly be added; if you specifically want the one from the RT2X, Mike Chi will probably have to donate the algorithm. :)

It wouldn't be Mike who would have to donate it, it would be Analog Devices


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:18 am 


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A few steps of simple directional blur is what's needed (at least for progressive sources)
Horizontal-only blur combined with hybrid scanlines: there wouldn't be anything better.
No idea if that's possible on the OSSC, I'm afraid it might require some sort of prescaling or buffering, so...
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:46 pm 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 225
Since we're all about multiples here.

Didn't someone say it was possible to achieve dithering by overlapping images together on the same line? I'm questioning how the ossc would be able to do this without the needed use of memory to make it happen. I understand it was two fields or something, so wouldn't shifting over a x2 multiple image or greater even work?

Also wondering about the way retrotink makes images look smoother. Is it running a similar idea?
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:50 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2017
Posts: 37
Xyga wrote:
A few steps of simple directional blur is what's needed (at least for progressive sources)
Horizontal-only blur combined with hybrid scanlines: there wouldn't be anything better.
No idea if that's possible on the OSSC, I'm afraid it might require some sort of prescaling or buffering, so...


Here are the settings I settled for best scanlines so far on my 4k LG tv (to my eyes at least):

- 5x 1200p, this gives it a bit of vertical blur on a 4k tv.
- For horizontal blur I just use generic mode.
- Scanlines: 93% normal, 31% hybrid and multiplication. I tested different values trying to achieve two things: having dark scanlines but avoiding getting too dark scanlines on bright images at the same time (having just black scanlines with no blur looks like an old emulator, which hurt my eyes after a while).
- Game mode and PC mode (4:4:4) with Color increase from 50 to 70 (in looked too dull on 50 with scanlines).

For the near future I would really like for the OSSC being able to make the 1st and 5th line the scanline. Now the options are the 1st and 2nd or the 4th and 5th. Here is a picture I made (on excel lol) a while back to explain the idea:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:55 pm 


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Quote:
For the near future I would really like for the OSSC being able to make the 1st and 5th line the scanline.

looks terrible for me. I have been battling this kind of scanline rendition on quite a few emus in the past. Why would you prefer that ?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:50 pm 


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@naz; I was thinking more of something like when you use only 'defocus X' from HLSL in MAME (everything else in HLSL settings like mask, bloom etc off), a pipe dream on the OSSC though and afaik.
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