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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:56 pm 



Joined: 27 Apr 2018
Posts: 46
marqs wrote:
Work with the soft-CPU replacement has gone forward and now HW side of it has been integrated to Altera platform. Remaining task is integrating / rewriting HAL/BSP part and then it should be possible to continue adding new features to fw.


I'm now very, VERY hyped. Looking forward to OSSC becoming much more capable! We root for you marqs!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:38 pm 


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Any chance for a dedicated button to switch between various specific input resolutions?

What I would really like is a simple way to toggle between Generic 4:3 > 320x240 > 256x240 > 384x240 > generic 4:3 and so on with just a single button press. That would make it much faster to switch to the proper resolution depending on the game. Great for a system like the Saturn :)

You can kinda do it with the line_x button, but that will have you set up a different input resolution for each output resolution. It’s not very intuitive as it requires you to remember it. And not many tvs support these resolutions anyway.

Also, I don’t believe that a 384x240 preset exists yet. That would be really useful for Capcom fighters on the Saturn, as the 320x240 and 256x240 ones could be used for some of the other resolutions Saturn games run at :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:04 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Konsolkongen wrote:
Any chance for a dedicated button to switch between various specific input resolutions?

What I would really like is a simple way to toggle between Generic 4:3 > 320x240 > 256x240 > 384x240 > generic 4:3 and so on with just a single button press. That would make it much faster to switch to the proper resolution depending on the game. Great for a system like the Saturn :)

You can kinda do it with the line_x button, but that will have you set up a different input resolution for each output resolution. It’s not very intuitive as it requires you to remember it. And not many tvs support these resolutions anyway.

Also, I don’t believe that a 384x240 preset exists yet. That would be really useful for Capcom fighters on the Saturn, as the 320x240 and 256x240 ones could be used for some of the other resolutions Saturn games run at :)

Currently, I think you'd have to configure a profile for each of those optimized modes.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:01 pm 


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No you set 320x240 and 256x240 separately for each profile. But switching between which is used is a bit of a hassle as is :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:55 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 413
I see a lot of firmware requests. Since the OSSC firmware is open-source, do people think offering a "bounty" would be good motivation for people with the ability to make these custom firmwares? There's a few people I know that would absolutely chip in for a CFW with auto-switching, as well as have the HDMI output turn off if no signal is detected. I'd also like to see FBX's profiles integrated as well; Maybe profile "0" is stock and each corresponds to custom timings?

Should we start a different topic for this? Are any firmware developers even interested?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:57 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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retrorgb wrote:
I see a lot of firmware requests. Since the OSSC firmware is open-source, do people think offering a "bounty" would be good motivation for people with the ability to make these custom firmwares? There's a few people I know that would absolutely chip in for a CFW with auto-switching, as well as have the HDMI output turn off if no signal is detected. I'd also like to see FBX's profiles integrated as well; Maybe profile "0" is stock and each corresponds to custom timings?

Should we start a different topic for this? Are any firmware developers even interested?

I'm still hoping for a serial terminal for remote control and automated [re]configuration; it'd be easier and cheaper to work with than blindly configuring an OSSC with a USB IR dongle. Might need a hardware revision, though; I'm not sure it'd be possible to simply solder a handful of wires to the FPGA (or whichever chip).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:02 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 125
retrorgb wrote:
I see a lot of firmware requests. Since the OSSC firmware is open-source, do people think offering a "bounty" would be good motivation for people with the ability to make these custom firmwares? There's a few people I know that would absolutely chip in for a CFW with auto-switching, as well as have the HDMI output turn off if no signal is detected. I'd also like to see FBX's profiles integrated as well; Maybe profile "0" is stock and each corresponds to custom timings?

Should we start a different topic for this? Are any firmware developers even interested?


There have been a number of contributions from external devs. Some are even sitting there waiting until marqs completes the architecture swap that will increase the memory to make these types of changes: https://github.com/marqs85/ossc/pulls


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:05 pm 


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retrorgb wrote:
I see a lot of firmware requests. Since the OSSC firmware is open-source, do people think offering a "bounty" would be good motivation for people with the ability to make these custom firmwares? There's a few people I know that would absolutely chip in for a CFW with auto-switching, as well as have the HDMI output turn off if no signal is detected. I'd also like to see FBX's profiles integrated as well; Maybe profile "0" is stock and each corresponds to custom timings?

Should we start a different topic for this? Are any firmware developers even interested?


I think a bounty system could indeed draw other developers in, though depending on the extent of changes (and the fact that the FPGA is out of space), it should probably wait until the soft CPU replacement is finished.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:11 pm 


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Well, I start with a 400 EUR offer for a replacement firmware that turns the OSSC into a scan converter to turn 480p and possibly 720p into 240p. I don't know if the OSSC has the hardware capacity (to my understanding one line needs to be buffered), but if it does, the offer stands. Certain quality requirements apply though, but I'm open for discussions.

Maybe somebody wants to add this to the wiki ?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:06 pm 


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I would love a dedicated 240p firmware too - although I can't pledge that much so casually.. (buuut I would gladly spend €400 on a new OSSC revision that can both down- and upconvert, with two DVI-I inputs and two outputs.. an anti-aliasing filter would be nice too.. ok maybe I'm daydreaming now :) )

It would also be very cool if a 480i to 240p conversion could be added in too (even if it's some kind of fudge à la Extron interface).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:39 pm 


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Xer Xian wrote:
I would love a dedicated 240p firmware too - although I can't pledge that much so casually.. (buuut I would gladly spend €400 on a new OSSC revision that can both down- and upconvert, with two DVI-I inputs and two outputs.. an anti-aliasing filter would be nice too.. ok maybe I'm daydreaming now :) )

It would also be very cool if a 480i to 240p conversion could be added in too (even if it's some kind of fudge à la Extron interface).


+1 on a digital input, lots of HDMI mods for 480p consoles on the way/here.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:44 am 


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CobraKing wrote:
@marqs

Thanks for the update. Just curious but will those of us with the original OSSC 1.5 be able to use the upcoming firmware with the new memory framework?

I've been away from forums/retro-news for a month or so, almost completely out of the loop, and I missed this thing out entirely. Any place/thread where I can catch up? I've read about new architecture too, in the posts above... Is there a new OSSC hardware revision in the work? :o


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:07 am 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
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Galdelico wrote:
CobraKing wrote:
@marqs

Thanks for the update. Just curious but will those of us with the original OSSC 1.5 be able to use the upcoming firmware with the new memory framework?

I've been away from forums/retro-news for a month or so, almost completely out of the loop, and I missed this thing out entirely. Any place/thread where I can catch up? I've read about new architecture too, in the posts above... Is there a new OSSC hardware revision in the work? :o


No new hardware revision in the works but the current 'soft-cpu' is tapped out in terms of memory so no new features can be added. Marqs is working on replacing it with a more memory efficient one.

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... s2_replace


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:06 am 


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The main thing I'd like to see is the optimal timing for 240p modes range extended. Previously mentioned is a 384x240 preset, but there are even more extreme cases. I've been getting PMs about PSPgo, which is 480x272. I don't believe it is even possible to optimally time that much horizontal resolution in 240p mode optimal timing.

Edit: Never mind about the PSPgo. Apparently it forces 720x480 output with letterboxing, so it doesn't fall under the same category as 240p optimal timing range issues.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:57 pm 


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Don't know if this was ever mentioned, but WHY is adjusting the sampling phase so very finicky? It's like the setting was randomly ignoring the set value every now and then. Taking away the signal (for example by resetting the console) helps getting the "correct" phase back again, but well... what's going on?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:08 pm 


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I know I've said this before. But I would very much like it if the phase option was adjustable for each preset. This way, those of us that have just about every console hooked up at the same time, could use a single profile for multiple consoles. For example SNES at 240p and GameCube at 480i and 480p, without ever having to chance any options once setup :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:34 pm 


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CobraKing wrote:
No new hardware revision in the works but the current 'soft-cpu' is tapped out in terms of memory so no new features can be added. Marqs is working on replacing it with a more memory efficient one.

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... s2_replace

Sounds pretty awesome!
If you don't mind me asking: why did you express concern about the usability of such new FW with the OSSC 1.5? As an 1.4 user myself, is there any technical limitation potentially able to rule us out?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:50 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 739
Galdelico wrote:
CobraKing wrote:
No new hardware revision in the works but the current 'soft-cpu' is tapped out in terms of memory so no new features can be added. Marqs is working on replacing it with a more memory efficient one.

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... s2_replace

Sounds pretty awesome!
If you don't mind me asking: why did you express concern about the usability of such new FW with the OSSC 1.5? As an 1.4 user myself, is there any technical limitation potentially able to rule us out?

My understanding was that the only limitation would be lack of access to the audio features.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:08 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Well, I start with a 400 EUR offer for a replacement firmware that turns the OSSC into a scan converter to turn 480p and possibly 720p into 240p. I don't know if the OSSC has the hardware capacity (to my understanding one line needs to be buffered), but if it does, the offer stands. Certain quality requirements apply though, but I'm open for discussions.
While 480p->240p conversion should be technically possible with OSSC hw, the implementation would be hacky in one way or another. Either a very specific sampling rate would need to be used to enable valid clock ratio for Cyclone IV PLL (direct 262/525 not possible), or output timing would need to alternate between 262/263 lines (without interlace flag) which only CRTs have any chance of supporting.

A more robust implementation would need a programmable clock generator for more flexible output pixel clock generation. I recently got a DE10-Nano development board and there's an add-on card I've made earlier consisting of a new video digitizer chip and a clock generator. The development board should be also compatible with OSSC Wolf cards that becker has made and can house 2 of them, so it looks like an interesting piece of kit that could be used for developing completely new features.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:14 am 


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I got an OSSC for it's Line2X capabilities, however I am not sure if something is wrong with it as when things are set to Passtruh things seem normal, however whenever I change to Line2X no matter which console I am using, everything becomes weird looking?

I took some comparison screenshots on my Wii,

Line2X:

Image

Passtruh:

Image


Line2X:

Image

Passtruh:

Image


Not even mere text seem to be spared:

Line2X:

Image

Passtruh:

Image


Tried The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess on GameCube at 480p using the Official Component Cables, used Line2X with FBX settings

And this is what I got:

Image


Is this normal!?


Last edited by Lawfer on Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:49 am 


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nmalinoski wrote:
My understanding was that the only limitation would be lack of access to the audio features.

Ha, I see. It makes sense, yeah.
It would be a shame, if anything that substantial turns out to be only available for the newest model, but it would be understandable nonetheless. Hopefully the transition will be successful on all OSSC, but in front of truly game-changing improvements, I'd seriously consider upgrading to 1.6.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:28 am 


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Lawfer wrote:
I got an OSSC for it's Line2X capabilities, however I am not sure if something is wrong with it as when things are set to Passtruh things seem normal, however whenever I change to Line2X no matter which console I am using, everything becomes weird looking?

Try enabling "Allow upsample2x".


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:13 am 


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Thomago wrote:
Lawfer wrote:
I got an OSSC for it's Line2X capabilities, however I am not sure if something is wrong with it as when things are set to Passtruh things seem normal, however whenever I change to Line2X no matter which console I am using, everything becomes weird looking?

Try enabling "Allow upsample2x".


No but I mean is it supposed to look like that despite the fact that upsample2x is off?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:28 am 


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Hard to say. The Wii has an abhorrent signal quality, so you could say nothing looks like it's supposed to look. "Allow upsample2x" = Off only yields good results with good signals and matching sampling clocks; if that isn't the case, it yields bad results.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:40 am 


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Thomago wrote:
Hard to say. The Wii has an abhorrent signal quality, so you could say nothing looks like it's supposed to look.


I showed a pic of The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess running on GameCube too, not just Wii.


Thomago wrote:
"Allow upsample2x" = Off only yields good results with good signals and matching sampling clocks; if that isn't the case, it yields bad results.


Okay, so what about PS2 then, Line2X (1440x960 from 480p YpbPr source):

Image

Image


Is it normal that characters facial features are all garbled up unless they are directly facing the screen from really up close?

Example:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:07 pm 


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As I've said, if the sampling clock doesn't match (cause a game doesn't use a horizontal resolution fitting a horizontal sampling rate of 720), you won't get good results if "Allow upsample 2x" isn't enabled. Besides, some games won't look perfect even if the sampling rate matches and the signal quality is perfect due to internal processing (e. g. internal upsampling or filters).
Last but not least: For perfect results, you need the right sampling phase. Enabling "Allow upsample 2x" alleviates the need for that somewhat.


Last edited by Thomago on Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:10 pm 


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Thomago wrote:
As I've said, if the sampling clock doesn't match (cause a game doesn't use a horizontal resolution fitting a horizontal sampling rate of 720), you won't get good results if "Allow upsample 2x" isn't enabled. Besides, some games won't look perfect even if the sampling rate matches and the signal quality is perfect due to internal processing (e. g. internal upsampling or filters).


Well could you tell me what sampling settings I could to get "perfect results"? Neither this:

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... al_timings

Nor this:

http://www.firebrandx.com/osscprofiles.html

Mention settings for alot of 480p sources.


Last edited by Lawfer on Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:11 pm 


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Ah sorry, I meant to say horizontal active pixels.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:12 pm 


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Thomago wrote:
Ah sorry, I meant to say horizontal active pixels.


I see, well my settings actually matched that.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:18 pm 


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Lawfer wrote:
Well could you tell me what sampling settings I could to get "perfect results"?

I can't, as I don't know which resolutions your games run in by heart.
That's why I recommended enabling "Allow upsample2x" - as I've said using that option somewhat alleviates the need to find perfect settings.


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