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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:21 am 


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I get that same bug occasionally with SMS SD Loaded through Swiss. Forcing video mode is fine, but selecting it with the in game prompt causes that. I think it may be a Swiss issue?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:41 am 


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For me, occasionally, Swiss doesn't load at all (maybe in conjunction with the OSSC displaying 120 Hz, I can't remember) or spits out error messages. Is that a Swiss thing or some sort of SD loader hardware issue?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:07 am 



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Jademalo wrote:
I get that same bug occasionally with SMS SD Loaded through Swiss. Forcing video mode is fine, but selecting it with the in game prompt causes that. I think it may be a Swiss issue?


interesting I will try using swiss next time then. I loaded through gecko the first time (or was it the gamecube backup loader I think) then triggered 480p in-game.

EDIT: I forget swiss cannot run backups, or am I wrong maybe? swiss keeps giving an error with my backup but if I use my real copy it loads on swiss fine.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:57 am 


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Errm, swiss should be able to load backups?

Unless you're on Wii, which needs a custom MIOS. Swiss definitely can load backups on a gamecube though.

Hopefully Extrems will chime in, he'll probably know the answers.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:48 am 



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Saw that the main issue with 480p on ps3 is lag bit I tested 480i aND 480p with dmc and the lag felt the same.


Last edited by MidOrFeed2015 on Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:26 pm 


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Re the other day when I was asking about 1600x1200 monitors - I got one!

Found a Samsung SyncMaster 204B on ebay for £15, figured for that price it was worth a punt. It arrived today, and holy hell does it look amazing.
Really good colour, really crisp pixels, I'm super happy with it.

But holy cow, the latency.
It's half a frame at 60fps.
I was expecting a frame or so, and if not a ton of smearing. Honest to god though, half a frame compared to my BVM at 60hz in a 120fps video. And yes, I rotated the camera when taking the video to confirm it's not just rolling shutter.

I'm insanely happy with it. Looks great, was super cheap, and super responsive.

Only problem is there's a teenie tiny scuff on the panel, and it's occasionally visible during games :(
Anyone got any idea how to get rid of a scuff in a matte panel?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:12 am 


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Ah the 204b! £15 is a bargain.. but first of all 204bs almost universally have bad caps, you may need to get it recapped if it's not been repaired before. If you have problems with it not powering on, that means the caps are going.

The colour uniformity on them is also pretty poor, on both of mine you can really notice the colours changing as you move something from the top to the bottom of the screen.

They also kinda suck in Tate mode...oh and don't use the VGA input.

Still after getting them recapped I've had two on my desk as long as I can remember and they perform well and yes do look really neat in 5x mode with the OSSC.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:21 am 


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Really curious guys: how do scanlines look, in Line5x @ 1600x1200, on such monitors? I expect a similar rendering to 1920x1080 (as in, very sharp and thin), am I right?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:35 am 


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Huh, in the little bit of testing I didn't see too many issues with the colour. It looked great.

It's working absolutely fine, though as far as I'm aware it hasn't been recapped. Might have to look into that, though I'm still devastated about the scuff on the screen :(

I don't plan on using the VGA input lol, don't worry


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:09 am 


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Jademalo wrote:
Might have to look into that, though I'm still devastated about the scuff on the screen :(

No chance it's on a protective film/layer that can be removed and replaced, I guess. :/


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:46 pm 


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Actually the OSSC does have a plastic film on the screen you can peel off.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:09 pm 


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Not talking about the OSSC, talking about a Samsung Syncmasyer 204B I just bought. :(


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:24 pm 


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I think that was a subtle way to bring the thread back on topic :mrgreen:
Actually this last discussion might benefit from being split in a different thread.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:26 pm 


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Just finished watching the My Life in Gaming 4k TV episode, for anyone that hasn't watched it I'd recommend it! The OSSC is discussed in detail. Try runs his OSSC into a Denon receiver, which feeds his LG OLED C7 and capture card. I thought most AVRs messed with the OSSC compatibility? Maybe just the lower end Denon models like mine. I'd be tempted to upgrade if I knew it wouldn't add any lag or other issues.

Another thing discussed was screen burn in on the OLEDs, which I didn't realise was an issue until now. Does anyone here use an OLED B7/C7 etc with the OSSC? Have you experienced any burn in, in particular with the bob-deinterlacing modes that I've seen people discuss on here before as being dangerous on some panels.

Looks like I can snag a 2017 55" B7 for €1,500....seems like a good price considering they were double that last year. Someone told me the newer versions are just redesigned bezels and enclosures, and use the same tech?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:03 pm 


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Depends on the reciever, my VP50Pro is fantastic. Although my TV actually works with every mode, so it's not super neccesary now lol. It's an LG 49UJ701V-ZC


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:11 pm 


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eric90000 wrote:
Looks like I can snag a 2017 55" B7 for €1,500....seems like a good price considering they were double that last year. Someone told me the newer versions are just redesigned bezels and enclosures, and use the same tech?


The letter indicates the bezel/enclosures, the later the letter the fancier design, from B and C to the W "wallpaper" series. There's something like F in the middle there too.

This year's C8 includes a new processor that adds banding reduction like Sony's Super Gradient option or whatever it's called, as well as a new upscaling engine. From early threads I was reading LG also improved panel uniformity and near black performance for presumably all 8-series panels. Peak brightness may have been upped by 100 nits or so too if I'm remembering right.

So it's nothing major for games really. If you are interested and can get a 7 series cheap I don't think there's any reason to go for an 8 for a whole lot more. But LG is at least doing a bit more than just repackaging last year's panels.

I'm personally waiting for HDMI 2.1 features before I consider buying such an expensive display...


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:21 am 



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how does line double on ossc work? is it correct to say that the "internal resolution" becomes 2x native? kind of like how dolphin is able to 2x the native internal resolution in graphics settings?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:31 am 



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MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
how does line double on ossc work? is it correct to say that the "internal resolution" becomes 2x native? kind of like how dolphin is able to 2x the native internal resolution in graphics settings?

It's literal line doubling; it buffers a line and outputs it twice. I'm sure Dolphin renders at a higher resolution and/or scales whole frames, depending on your video settings.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:59 pm 



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eric90000 wrote:
Someone told me the newer versions are just redesigned bezels and enclosures, and use the same tech?

I wouldn't trust any such comments, check reviews from people that have done a technical analysis with expensive expert equipment before buying any TV.

LG has made noticeable improvements to the line every year. One of the big features for the 2018 sets is black frame insertion (BFI), which helps with motion blur. That's not an insignificant feature, especially for games I would think. But don't take my word for it, I haven't checked the reviews myself.

I'm with bobrocks95, I probably won't buy a new TV until it has HDMI 2.1. But then again I don't need a new TV in the near future, so it all depends on your situation.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:32 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
The letter indicates the bezel/enclosures, the later the letter the fancier design, from B and C to the W "wallpaper" series. There's something like F in the middle there too.

This year's C8 includes a new processor that adds banding reduction like Sony's Super Gradient option or whatever it's called, as well as a new upscaling engine. From early threads I was reading LG also improved panel uniformity and near black performance for presumably all 8-series panels. Peak brightness may have been upped by 100 nits or so too if I'm remembering right.

So it's nothing major for games really. If you are interested and can get a 7 series cheap I don't think there's any reason to go for an 8 for a whole lot more. But LG is at least doing a bit more than just repackaging last year's panels.

I'm personally waiting for HDMI 2.1 features before I consider buying such an expensive display...


TestType wrote:
I wouldn't trust any such comments, check reviews from people that have done a technical analysis with expensive expert equipment before buying any TV.

LG has made noticeable improvements to the line every year. One of the big features for the 2018 sets is black frame insertion (BFI), which helps with motion blur. That's not an insignificant feature, especially for games I would think. But don't take my word for it, I haven't checked the reviews myself.

I'm with bobrocks95, I probably won't buy a new TV until it has HDMI 2.1. But then again I don't need a new TV in the near future, so it all depends on your situation.


Thanks for the info guys. I agree, after researching it some more it appears the 8 series are in fact a definite improvement over the 7.

The thing that still scares me about this tech is the permanent screen burn in risk - which I would imagine is even more dangerous for those of us that use the OSSC, as it's predominantly going to display very bright colourful video games with a HUD, health bars, timer etc. Any thoughts on OLED + OSSC and screen burn in?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
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wow. with wavebird on my UHD 4K TV i got 10 milliseconds of lag. thought it would be much much worse but no i am very impressed :D


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:15 am 


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paulb_nl wrote:
marqs wrote:
Could it be that enough light escapes thru the panel when viewed from extreme viewing angles, and covering sides of the sensor blocks this indirect light to the phototransistor?


Well I have put the sensor inside a small led holder and only the top is exposed so there is no light going to the side of the sensor. It would only work properly if I mostly cover up the front too and move it further from the display.

Because you said it might be small light glitches I did some testing and modified the latency tester to only register the light detection after a certain number of equal sensor readings. But even setting the number to 27000 it still triggers the detection on black parts of the display.

It would seem that with this TV the backlight is too strong or something? I even tried setting the backlight to the lowest setting but that did not help.

I did find that if I hold the sensor in the far most corner of the screen it works normally. A few cm away from the corner and it stops working.
Recently I tested a couple LCDs with the sensor hooked to a scope. A few observations:

* 150kohm pull-up may be a bit too strong for SFH300 to be able to drive output to reliable logic low. 220kohm seems like a better choice, 300kohm makes the sensor extremely sensitive
* LED-backlit LCDs using low-frequency PWM for backlight control may provide unreliable results unless PWM duty cycle is set to 100% (backlight/brightness set to max.)
* SFH300 spectral range extends to infrared (you can trigger the sensor e.g. with OSSC remote) - it's unlikely that some panels would spuriously leak infrared to trigger the sensor on top of black area, but the possibility can't be completely ruled out yet

None of the screens tested behaved like the problematic ones I referred to earlier, so it's still a mystery why some can trigger the sensor with fully black output.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:04 pm 


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What's the compatibility like for the 960i (480i x3) mode? I've never seen it mentioned, and for say an OLED I'd rather just let the TV deinterlace than send it a bob deinterlaced signal that will be prone to image retention.

Specifically wondering about LG B7/C8 if anyone knows.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:21 pm 


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I got a C7. Pass through, 2x (bob) and 4x (bob) works fine. Pass through looks the best, but having the TV doing the deinterlacing adds some lag (not sure how much).

Line3x (laced) does not work.

Edit: Not sure if the bob deinterlacing increases the amount of image retention though. That could just be an IPS panel-thing. I almost never play 480i games, and when I do I tend to force them to run at progressive scan if possible.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:09 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
I got a C7. Pass through, 2x (bob) and 4x (bob) works fine. Pass through looks the best, but having the TV doing the deinterlacing adds some lag (not sure how much).

Line3x (laced) does not work.

Edit: Not sure if the bob deinterlacing increases the amount of image retention though. That could just be an IPS panel-thing. I almost never play 480i games, and when I do I tend to force them to run at progressive scan if possible.


Dang, maybe with HDMI 2.1 and VRR they'll become even more tolerant of off-spec signals.

Rtings and MLiG both showed image retention for OLED as well as IPS panels. 960i would be nice for PS2 games, I haven't come across any Gamecube or Wii games that couldn't be forced into 480p in one way or another.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:32 pm 


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Yes image retention is a thing on OLED. But I’m not sure that bob deinterlacing would make this appear faster than passthrough.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:24 pm 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
Dang, maybe with HDMI 2.1 and VRR they'll become even more tolerant of off-spec signals.

HDMI 2.1 and VRR would need to be supported on both ends, right? So we're going to need a new hardware revision of the OSSC to even take advantage of that; I don't believe the HDMI transmitter on the 1.6 OSSC supports anything more than HDMI 1.3 or 1.4.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:41 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
Dang, maybe with HDMI 2.1 and VRR they'll become even more tolerant of off-spec signals.

HDMI 2.1 and VRR would need to be supported on both ends, right? So we're going to need a new hardware revision of the OSSC to even take advantage of that; I don't believe the HDMI transmitter on the 1.6 OSSC supports anything more than HDMI 1.3 or 1.4.


Samsung's new TVs support VRR without HDMI 2.1 transmitters, but they may still have some additional tech built into the HDMI inputs to support it, I don't know. It is indeed probably more complex than just setting a flag to indicate VRR support from the source, but I don't think anyone really knows yet.

But actually I just meant that maybe with new scaling engines in the TVs, they may accept more varied signals and resolutions, like how many more 4K TVs support Line 3x, 4x, 5x than 1080p TVs.

Konsolkongen wrote:
Yes image retention is a thing on OLED. But I’m not sure that bob deinterlacing would make this appear faster than passthrough.


You're right, I missed what you were getting at there. The OSSC's bob deinterlacing produces a flickering effect according to the wiki (I guess because each field that's being linedoubled is offset by a scanline?), so I'd assume that's more likely to cause image retention compared to the TV doing a more proper (but laggier) deinterlacing.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:39 am 


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But on the other hand, the flicker could perhaps help reduce the image retention on an OLED, since the image is less static. Dunno though, it’s weird that this is a thing on IPS panels.

It’s not something I’m going to test on my set, but for what it’s worth a friend and I played through both Decathlete and Winter Heat on the Saturn with bob deinterlacing, and I didn’t notice any particularly bad retention afterwards. We were, of course, super drunk so that wasn’t really a huge concern of mine at the time :D


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:01 pm 



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anyone can recommend a good power supply for Famicom for use in NA?

I am using the SEGA CD power supply (or genesis? I cant remember but I will check).

Using with the OSSC I can see green stuff (artifacts?). it is not too obvious, but still there. I remember seeing this with a weaker power supply and with the Sega PSU now most of its gone. I am looking to remove all of it.

or maybe I did not optimize the ossc for Famicom yet...


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