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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:07 pm 


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Quote:
This adapter matches the size, not sure about the "centre positive" part though.

The adapter doesn't change your PSU's output polarity. If your PSU works right now, it will work with this adapter as well.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:09 pm 



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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
This adapter matches the size, not sure about the "centre positive" part though.

The adapter doesn't change your PSU's output polarity. If your PSU works right now, it will work with this adapter as well.


Thanks! :D


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:30 am 



Joined: 02 Sep 2016
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Does anybody know if I can test the OSSC output resolution/refresh rate using a Raspberry Pi before I purchase it?

For example, I'd like to setup my Raspberry Pi to emulate OSSC at Line5x and see if it works before I purchase the OSSC?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:28 am 


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sofakng wrote:
Does anybody know if I can test the OSSC output resolution/refresh rate using a Raspberry Pi before I purchase it?

For example, I'd like to setup my Raspberry Pi to emulate OSSC at Line5x and see if it works before I purchase the OSSC?


it might be a good idea to check the VGP forums to see if your television/monitor model has already been tested. you could probably emulate some systems, I remember doing something similar with my video card before the OSSC was available. although you can't really emulate the peculiar sync jitter of the NES or super NES signal (for some that might be an issue). marqs (designer of the OSSC) is working on a solution to that problem (so it shouldn't be an issue for much longer). I'm not familiar enough with the raspberry pi to give you a definite answer but it's probably feasible with the right settings ( to at least emulate something like a Sega Genesis). although if you want my advice... for the average retro gamer the OSSC is a very useful item to have. for the "advanced" retro gamer it's indispensable (especially when visual fidelity is a top priority). anyway, unless you're married to your display for some reason, given enough time you're bound to find one that works with most modes.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:53 am 



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sofakng wrote:
Does anybody know if I can test the OSSC output resolution/refresh rate using a Raspberry Pi before I purchase it?

For example, I'd like to setup my Raspberry Pi to emulate OSSC at Line5x and see if it works before I purchase the OSSC?


I think you would have to make some custom hdmi_timings in the boot/config.txt to really get it to display at those resolutions. Setting RetroArch (for example) into 5x mode by itself won't give you the same resolution the OSSC is outputting at Line5x (pretty sure the RP3 at that point, with the default HDMI settings, is ALWAYS outputting 1080p no matter what you have the multiplier setup as).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:44 am 


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Super Nintendo 2-chip RGB scart to JP21 (sync on luma) + XRGB-1 + OSSC 1.6 in 480p 2x (960p) mode, Upsample 2x on + the DVDO VP50Pro (with the help of the advanced timing recipe developed by Markus and BuckoA51). I'm hoping to get some more time this week to try the same picture with a few other options, like reverse LPF, up sample off (more Pixley line multiplication) and of course dialing in the phase and clock settings similar to what FBX did in his tutorial. would probably make the image way sharper (not 1-chip sharp, but close enough). overall I think this is actually a pretty nice shot with a "soft look" that some people might really enjoy (looks nice to me anyway). still crisp, but it's not ultra emulator sharp ( but I can probably get pretty close with a little more tweaking)

Super Mario World (Korean version) (captured with avermedia LGX)
Spoiler: show
Image


Last edited by Blair on Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:03 pm 



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^^^
My apologies in advance but that does not look good at all. :(

Just curious but what's your rationale for having so many devices though? (XRGB-1, OSSC & DVDO)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:43 pm 


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^^^
I appreciate the feedback :wink:

So the DVDO is is mostly around in this particular instance for recording purposes, most "game capture" devices can't see off spec signals the OSSC puts out. for instance the LGX I'm using only wants to see 480p,720p,1080p. the DVDO takes the OSSC signal and spits out a more acceptable 1080p. it's a sort of a hobby of mine to mess with these things in general, I had some ideas on OSSC settings for this particular set up (as it's the one I was going to record on that day)

2-chips are softer than 1-chips so if you're used to that razor-sharp look that could be why it looks so odd. (my 2-chip might also need to be re-capped as I've noticed a little bleed around edges) the XRGB-1 was designed for CRT use as it's a fairly old line doubler, so it probably doesn't photograph well at (scaled) high resolutions. but I haven't gone through the litany of options the OSSC provides for sharpening up the signal as this was just a test. (I also should've left up sample 2X off, as that would probably work better for lo-res pixel graphics, but that's what I get for recording before bedtime)

if I wanted, I could just do this

OSSC+SNES-1chip+VP50 line5x no scanlines
Spoiler: show
Image

OSSC+SNES-1chip+VP50 line5x scanlines: 100%
Spoiler: show
Image


bonus shots of the XRGB-1 hooked to a CRT with that same 2-chip super Nintendo. some with scanlines, some without (also some Genesis shots). (https://imgur.com/a/gqgA2)
video of Sega Saturn+XRGB-1+VP50 (recorded by the LGX) I did a while back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsPFUXSvyIE

as you can see, I have (fairly sharp) options. but I'm still trying to figure out the best way to record XRGB-1+OSSC footage. of course there's also the possibility that everything I'm posting looks bad and I can't tell because something is wrong with my eyes... :shock:

side question CobraKing, did you ever end up testing out that VGA DAC+OSSC on your Sony TV?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:33 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
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^^^
The above 2 screenshots are considerably better. Thanks for explaining your test process.

Interesting thing about that VGA DAC was that I was actually able to get Line 3X working on my 2011 Sony TV but right at the center there was a vertical line that would flicker. An extremely unstable Line 5X would also display but I simply could not get the image to stabilize in either modes so I've just given up on it. The TV's 7 years old now and only displays up to 1080p. I'm just putting some cash aside to replace it with a 4K set.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:15 pm 


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I love the new hybrid scanlines, Borti. Beautiful work.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:29 pm 


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CobraKing wrote:
^^^
The above 2 screenshots are considerably better. Thanks for explaining your test process.

Interesting thing about that VGA DAC was that I was actually able to get Line 3X working on my 2011 Sony TV but right at the center there was a vertical line that would flicker. An extremely unstable Line 5X would also display but I simply could not get the image to stabilize in either modes so I've just given up on it. The TV's 7 years old now and only displays up to 1080p. I'm just putting some cash aside to replace it with a 4K set.



that's disappointing to hear, sorry it didn't work out for you. did you have the same problem whether it was powered or nonpowered? I've had pretty good luck with the OSSC and most of my DACs. I've been tempted to upgrade to the 4k TCL sets as other users have reported good results with them and the OSSC and just general gaming and performance positivity overall

BuckoA51 wrote:
My Edge green is doing this now, it's even causing the same issue with an OSSC connected to the same power strip as the DVDO (even when the OSSC isn't routed through the DVDO).

Can anyone point me in the direction of the correct replacement PSU for the Edge Green? Thanks.


I was actually having A similar issue with my Edge Green. I kept getting a white line randomly appearing onscreen and the monitor Kept De-syncing. first I thought there was something gravely wrong with my edge unit but I realized that the problem was being caused by the the OSSC (especially with the high resolution output modes). it would randomly show up after about 30 minutes to an hour of gameplay, then it wouldn't stop. after racking my brain and doing a few tests I found out that turning off all of the HDMI TX compatibility settings off, then setting TX mode to DVI. completely fixed the issue. I'll do some more investigation, but after making this change my DVDO Edge Green + OSSC setup has an humming along happily for over three hours.

so maybe give my settings a try and see if that helps.

some images from that recent experiment, PlayStation 2 component out + OSSC 480i line4x (up sample 2X on) + Edge Green.

Image

Image


Das Muel wrote:
I love the new hybrid scanlines, Borti. Beautiful work.


does hybrid mode also work with the interlaced/alternating scanlines?


Last edited by Blair on Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:41 pm 


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Yep. Working great for me with 480i. I'm just enjoying some Shenmue 2 in beautiful flickervision as we speak (personally I prefer a number of Dreamcast games in 480i as the softness of the flicker filter etc masks the aliasing/lack of mipmapping). Looks great. Very reminiscent of the image I got on my Grundig CRT back in the day.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:57 pm 


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Das Muel wrote:
I love the new hybrid scanlines, Borti. Beautiful work.


Thank you :) I love them, too, and will integrate the method also on my N64A board ^^
Also many thanks to paulb_nl, who has written the initial implementation of the hybrid scanlines. Had some nice and interesting discussions and some great finds with him.

Blair wrote:
does hybrid mode also work with the interlaced/alternating scanlines?

The problem of 'when draw a scanline pixel' has been untouched. What is changed / extended is 'how a scanline pixel is drawn'.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:57 pm 


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Das Muel wrote:
Yep. Working great for me with 480i. I'm just enjoying some Shenmue 2 in beautiful flickervision as we speak (personally I prefer a number of Dreamcast games in 480i as the softness of the flicker filter etc masks the aliasing/lack of mipmapping). Looks great. Very reminiscent of the image I got on my Grundig CRT back in the day.


excellent Das Muel, sounds like a pretty good time :lol: I've been meaning to play around with more Dreamcast titles on the OSSC especially the 480i/240p exclusive ones, but I only currently have a VGA connection for my Dreamcast. I'll need to hunt down or commission a decent scart cable. most of my Dreamcast memories are from my Sony KV27FS-100 CRT with the Dreamcast in composite and then later S-video

borti4938 wrote:
the problem of 'when draw a scanline pixel' has been untouched. What is changed / extended is 'how a scanline pixel is drawn'.


I'm not sure I fully understand what that means, are you saying that the new scanline modes don't work with the alternating scanlines in 2x or 4x modes? or that they do work, but it's just not ideal or fully functioning yet?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:07 pm 


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You got me wrong.
I only changed how a scanline pixel has to look like (how the value is calculated). That's completely independent of when a pixel is a scanline pixel (alternating scanlines, even/odd, horizontal/vertical, etc.). So it works as it was.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:11 pm 


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okay, I think I understand now. either way, thanks for the hard work you've done and I'm definitely looking forward to your upcoming n64 projects.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:24 pm 



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borti4938 wrote:
Next to it paulb_nl introduced a hybrid scheme, where the scanline strength decreases with increasing brightness value.


This sounds awesome! The hybrid scanlines would get rid of one of my biggest complaints - how scanlines make the image WAY too dark (where it simply can't compare to a real CRT - even a CRT with the brightness turned down to be pretty DIM....a nice 4k flatscreen simple can't compete whatsoever with scanlines turned on).

I'm reading about this right now, but to be honest a lot of it is over my head. Would you mind giving us a quick rundown about how it works? Does it only work with the UltraHDMI N64 or Super Nt? No availability for regular systems you plug into the OSSC over RGBS? (that would kinda make it pointless for all us people - I would guess the majority - who run mostly RGBS systems through the OSSC).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:05 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
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Blair wrote:
that's disappointing to hear, sorry it didn't work out for you. did you have the same problem whether it was powered or nonpowered? I've had pretty good luck with the OSSC and most of my DACs. I've been tempted to upgrade to the 4k TCL sets as other users have reported good results with them and the OSSC and just general gaming and performance positivity overall


I tried it with the power adapter (micro USB) and without and got the the same results. Same as you I had some concerns with the power adapter powering up the OSSC LED even with the OSSC off so I didn't want to keep using it with the power adapter. The Line 3X image was really good but that one flickering vertical line was extremely evident.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:56 pm 



Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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Would somebody mind telling me where I can get this version of the firmware that allows for hybrid scanlines please? I've been trying to use this link for the past couple of days but the page is no longer loading:

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=OSSC


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:02 pm 



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i think here: https://github.com/borti4938/ossc/tree/ ... l/fw_build


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:07 pm 



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mdd45 wrote:


Thank you, I should have looked back to the previous page as somebody has asked the same thing. Apologies.

Sorry to ask what is probably a stupid question but which version of the 3 available beta 0.81 firmware's do I download?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:14 pm 


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If you are looking to update using an SD card, get the .bin file and use this tutorial to update.

Very impressed with these scanline features.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:27 pm 



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Thanks Kez :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:29 pm 



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Kez wrote:
If you are looking to update using an SD card, get the .bin file and use this tutorial to update.

Very impressed with these scanline features.


Do the hybrid scanlines work with any system (which normally works on the OSSC)?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:49 pm 


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Gah wanted to wait for the official release but you guys make me drool.

Loading the beta now. :p
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:17 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
Do the hybrid scanlines work with any system (which normally works on the OSSC)?


Yeah I can't see why they wouldn't. I believe they work by adjusting strength/colour of the scanlines based on what is "underneath" said scanlines, so it shouldn't really be affected by which system you put into it.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:27 pm 


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Speaking of scanlines....what's everyones opinion on using scanlines for 3D 240p games e.g. Metal Gear Solid, Croc, Crash Bandicoot etc?

I personally love them for anything 2D and 240p like Genesis, Super Nintendo etc, just not sure what to go with for the likes of PS1, N64 etc.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:57 pm 



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Kez wrote:
Yeah I can't see why they wouldn't. I believe they work by adjusting strength/colour of the scanlines based on what is "underneath" said scanlines, so it shouldn't really be affected by which system you put into it.


Thanks. Couple mentions of people having to get XYZ product/mod before they could try it which confused me! I'll load this up myself when I get a chance. I'm REALLY hoping it brightens up the picture - could really be a game changer from the screenshots I saw.



eric90000 wrote:
Speaking of scanlines....what's everyones opinion on using scanlines for 3D 240p games e.g. Metal Gear Solid, Croc, Crash Bandicoot etc?

I personally love them for anything 2D and 240p like Genesis, Super Nintendo etc, just not sure what to go with for the likes of PS1, N64 etc.


If the real system was played on a CRT I think it's doing the game a misjustice if you don't emulate them with scanlines turned on. Many (not all) game designers took scanlines into account when they were developing the games since they knew they would be played in 240p on CRT TV's, so if the scanlines are missing you're not getting the full effect of the art they designed either. (or I guess being a CRT groupy, I'm all about the scanlines ;)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:01 pm 


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OK tried the hybrid scanlines and yup, it's a clear (!) improvement.
Better than adjusting the full lines intensity or pushing the display's brightness.
It rebalances the picture and kind of adds a hint of roundness to the brighter pixels thanks to the bleeding.

Don't feel the need to use the higher settings though, 37% seems fine in most cases, 50% at most.
The question is: from what base intensity % should I start ? different multiple modes require different settings also as expected.
I've answered that by setting the % which first entirely hides the scanlines (usually quite high 75% to 81% or so), then I adjust the hybridation %.

Now I have to investigate some tiny flickery colors parasites on the scanlines in x5 1080p mode I didn't have before...
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:04 pm 


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eric90000 wrote:
Speaking of scanlines....what's everyones opinion on using scanlines for 3D 240p games e.g. Metal Gear Solid, Croc, Crash Bandicoot etc?

I personally love them for anything 2D and 240p like Genesis, Super Nintendo etc, just not sure what to go with for the likes of PS1, N64 etc.

I think scanlines looki great on those games. They act as a natural anti-aliasing of sort. Just play Medievil with or without scanlines, you'll see a way nicer picture with scanlines on. Same for MGS


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