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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:59 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
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orange808 wrote:
I have an fc-4044 somewhere. I'll have to break it out later this week and test it. Never bothered because of bad experiences with other Kramer decoders.

Should be interesting. I have seen a few devices output a drop shadow, but struggle with the line test or have combing artifacts in the scrolling test.

We'll see what happens.


That would be great - thanks. I'll test mine on a bunch of BVM/PVM's when I get it as well.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:32 pm 


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Anyone know if the Kramer FC-4046 is any good?
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:43 pm 


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The 4046 is the one that spawned the whole Kramer FC 240p incompatibility discussion. The old thread is right here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47815&hilit=4046

It's possible that the 4046 isn't compatible due to its digital processing path. Simpler units based based on analogue transcoding circuits might work better. If I remember correctly the 4042 (RGB to component and vice versa) had no problems with 240p, so other units from that range (but with composite and s-video inputs) might work as well.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:58 pm 


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Ah right thanks.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:07 am 


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Kramer stuff can be a little tricky, because they almost always have a few products that are manufacturered by another company and "rebadged" for distribution by Kramer.

I'm not certain the digital processing path fully explains the Kramer situation. For instance, I had an old Kramer VM-19 decoder that did not handle 240p correctly. That is probably the first decoder that Kramer manufactured. I had high hopes for that one.

I have some other Kramer equipment I haven't sold yet, so I'm not going to drag those units through the mud right now.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:58 pm 


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This is probably a dumbass question but I haven't been keeping up. So the 1.6 board outputs audio alongside the video over HDMI without any breakout boards, converter boxes etc?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:01 pm 


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Kyle wrote:
This is probably a dumbass question but I haven't been keeping up. So the 1.6 board outputs audio alongside the video over HDMI without any breakout boards, converter boxes etc?

Yes. See https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... ew-update/


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:03 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
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@BuckoA51 @marqs

In this post on the VGP forums, user James-F inquires whether the MicroSD card could be used as a memory/storage option to enhance/add features for the OSSC. Is this even possible?

https://www.videogameperfection.com/for ... post-19294


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 Post subject: OSSC and DVDO Iscan Mini
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:42 pm 


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So I have a DVDO iscan Mini and I noticed that it absolutely refuses to display anything about 240p X2 mode. Even my DVDO edge can display everything that the OSSC throws at it. Is this a bug in the IScan Mini? Has anyone been able to succesfully display in 4k?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:27 am 


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CobraKing wrote:
In this post on the VGP forums, user James-F inquires whether the MicroSD card could be used as a memory/storage option to enhance/add features for the OSSC. Is this even possible?
As discussed shortly earlier, the ideal solution for getting more memory in use would be locating soft-CPU's code segment into on-board flash which has more than enough space. However, running code from SPI flash (or micro-SD) without caches (not supported by Nios II/e) would drop CPU performance to somewhere between 1/50th and 1/100th of current architecture which offers single-cycle access to memory. While the CPU is only doing control tasks, such big drop would likely lead to sluggish UI and slower mode detection. The solution would be to get rid of Nios II, and replace it with an open-core such as OpenRISC, LM32 or RISC-V. However, it's far from a small task as you'd need to integrate the core to the subsystem, implementing any missing/implementation-specific parts (e.g. JTAG, bootrom&loader, linker scripts) and re-design firmware storage/update procedures. There's a couple projects like Vectorblox ORCA and FuseSoC which could reduce required integration work, though - I should take a closer look when I have more time.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:17 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
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^^^
Thanks Marqs! Was just curious and I appreciate your feedback!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:22 am 


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On the topic of composite and svideo decoders, my FC-4044 is a bad unit.

It does function intermittently and it appears to handle 240p just fine. I can't test this one fully, but it looks like this model works for 240p.

Both the earlier Kramer VM-19 and later Kramer FC-4046 output 240p as 480i. So, this is the only encouraging Kramer decoder I have seen.

I'm going to hunt down a working unit.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:33 am 



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orange808 wrote:
On the topic of composite and svideo decoders, my FC-4044 is a bad unit.


I don't think it's your unit. Just tested mine not even 5 minutes ago - and it's a POS (nmalinoski had issues as well). It does 240p alright, but makes composite and S-Video (tried converting it to both RGBS and YPbPr) look MUCH worse than if you hooked those composite/S-video signals directly up to your CRT. Mine also likes to flash into B&W every 3-10 seconds or so. Tried multiple cables, a TG16 (composite) and SNES (composite and S-video) console. Sending it back to the eBay vendor on Monday.

Let me know if there's any other units we can try and see if they work...


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:21 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Dochartaigh wrote:
I don't think it's your unit. Just tested mine not even 5 minutes ago - and it's a POS (nmalinoski had issues as well). It does 240p alright, but makes composite and S-Video (tried converting it to both RGBS and YPbPr) look MUCH worse than if you hooked those composite/S-video signals directly up to your CRT. Mine also likes to flash into B&W every 3-10 seconds or so. Tried multiple cables, a TG16 (composite) and SNES (composite and S-video) console. Sending it back to the eBay vendor on Monday.

It should be noted that:
  • I am not using my FC-4044 for CRT usage, rather I am using the YPbPr output in conjunction with an OSSC to linedouble S-Video and composite sources for my LCD, but I do not notice a quality dip on my CRT (but I'm no expert)
  • Any visual interference I experienced connecting the FC-4044 directly to my TV is eliminated by my OSSC
  • I do not have any of the reported image stability problems
  • I am overall happy with this decoder


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:53 am 


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Probably a dumb question but if were to try to run RGBs via the RCA inputs where does sync go??


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:36 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Syntax wrote:
Probably a dumb question but if were to try to run RGBs via the RCA inputs where does sync go??

As far as I can tell, AV2 only allows YPbPr and RGsB; there is not toggle to RGBS--you'd need to use either AV1 or AV3. If you really wanted to use RCA, you'd either have to mux sync onto green or wait for an OSSC redesign.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:30 pm 


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Firmware v0.80 is out:

* PCM1862 audio ADC parameters corrected (fixes audio quality issues with certain systems, e.g. some MD units)
* audio gain setting added (pre-ADC, +-12dB range)
* video test pattern updated (32 step grayramp)
* profile link option added (allows binding a profile to each logical input)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:31 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 269
That's super sweet! I'm curious if I'll be able to hear a difference with my MD1. I assume the audio gain will be part of the profile, saves me from adjusting the receiver quite as often. SFC is kinda quiet compared to the rest :/ The gray ramp is also neat, it's probably easier now to tell if the TV is set to limited RGB range. And I get an automatic profile switch for the 'Dreamcast connector' (aka VGA).

Guess Borti's new scaline algorithm wasn't ready to be merged in time for this update? I'm curious if I'll like it better than the usual uniform / all black ones that scalers, emulators etc. usually do.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:09 am 


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No, it's not in yet.
The algorithm went through several improvements along with paulb_nl, who worked on scanline improvements, too. If I don't find any bugs, the pull request will be updated on Monday or Tuesday.
If you want to test it, you can download a test build here: https://github.com/borti4938/ossc/tree/ ... l/fw_build
The 0.81beta has functions of 0.80 included. To anyone who test it: please report any bugs!
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:30 am 


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Do you guys have proper captures of that new implementation please? sorry maybe I've missed some but what I've seen on vgp is small and badly scaled-down so besides the obvious brighness difference I can't tell what's going on...

edit: nvm found. exciting! will wait for the official release though.
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Last edited by Xyga on Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:29 pm 


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borti4938 wrote:
No, it's not in yet.
The algorithm went through several improvements along with paulb_nl, who worked on scanline improvements, too. If I don't find any bugs, the pull request will be updated on Monday or Tuesday.
If you want to test it, you can download a test build here: https://github.com/borti4938/ossc/tree/ ... l/fw_build
The 0.81beta has functions of 0.80 included. To anyone who test it: please report any bugs!



Is this scanline algorithm explain anywhere in more detail havent heard about it until now and super interested in with it is and the results?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:40 pm 


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I've introduced a multiplication of RGB values instead of simple subtraction. As all values are treat by relative to their own brightness instead of subtracting a constant (and saturate at 0) this helps to keep colours in the scanlines.
See this pull request for an example: https://github.com/marqs85/ossc/pull/21

Next to it paulb_nl introduced a hybrid scheme, where the scanline strength decreases with increasing brightness value. This was in the first attempt highly dependent on the scanline-strength itself. We decoupled that effect by some additional math. All discussion incl. some formulas and simulation curves are here: https://www.videogameperfection.com/for ... scanlines/
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:41 pm 


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^all those new scanline effects look very interesting. will they also be applicable to alternating scanlines in interlaced modes (480i, 960i, 1080i, bob 2x, bob 4x) and thin/480p style scanlines in 480p line 2x (960p) mode?


below, some off screen shots from the Wii virtual console running Samurai Showdown 2 (Neo Geo version). OSSC 240p line2x (scanlines 100%) + HD3000 + Samsung LN40 television

scanlines off
Image

scanlines on
Image

Image

Image


Last edited by Blair on Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:42 pm 


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Does anyone actually have the latest firmware yet? Junkerhq's been down for a day now and it's killing me. Or is it somewhere on VideoGamePerfection.com?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:44 pm 



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https://www.niksula.hut.fi/~mhiienka/ossc/fw/

Thankfully hosted somewhere else :D


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:56 pm 


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ASDR wrote:
https://www.niksula.hut.fi/~mhiienka/ossc/fw/

Thankfully hosted somewhere else :D


Ah, that page looks familiar! Thanks!

And nice job on the shots, Blair. Friendly reminder to everyone that the Wii Shop Channel is closing on March 26, so if you want to run games in 240p that you don't yet have the physical game for, or the console, it's your last chance! Personally I'm picking up a whole bunch of Neo Geo games and Dracula X: Rondo of Blood (...for the second time, since I already transferred my Wii VC purchases to Wii U). I hear TurboGrafx-16 games are 480i though so those will have to be on the Wii U.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:39 pm 


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thanks Triple Lei. Yeah there's still lots of neat stuff to grab on the Wii. from what I remember anything that runs in 480i on the VC should also run in 480p when the system is set to progressive (N64 games) to get the best results with OSSC scanlines users probably have to adjust scanline position (top or bottom). at least that's what I had to do when I played Mario 64 or Castlelvania 64 in 480p mode.


below, a few random off screenshots and a capture from the last few days.

original Xbox, component out+ OSSC 480p line2x (up sample 2X on)
Image

Wii (retroarch), CPS-2 rom + OSSC 384×224 line3x (scanlines 100%) + Dell e2311h v2 monitor
Image



PlayStation 2 Scart (YUV mode), Anime DVD + OSSC 480i line4x (alternating scanlines 100%) + Dell e2311h v2 monitor

Image

PlayStation 2 Scart (YUV mode), Anime DVD + OSSC 480i line4x (alternating scanlines 100%) + Dell e2311h v2 monitor
Image


Note: Dell e2311h shots are all using the monitor's VGA input in conjunction with the Rankie HDMI to VGA Adapter/DAC for an OSSC analog output solution.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:54 pm 



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As for as cable management goes, would this adapter cable work with the OSSC along with an approved power supply?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/361212281106


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:28 pm 



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Seraphic wrote:
As for as cable management goes, would this adapter cable work with the OSSC along with an approved power supply?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/361212281106


Can't answer that question, but I like your thinking. I'm having the same problem with cable management on mine. Think I did the same on the audio cable with a 90º to bring it to the back.

The OSSC and FM, no matter how awesome they are, are totally f'd up for their cable management because of bad design in that regard (I know it was probably due to the design of the circuit board and making this compact...but still not good for cable management). Like who thought it would be a good idea to have wires coming out of 1, 2, or THREE sides...especially for a box which needs to be front facing for the IR remote to work (so you can't really hide it away somewhere, especially with the OSSC having no OSD you need to see the screen)...

...you would have thought with how many people take a special interest in hiding all their cabling, repurposing Ikea box furniture and the like into beautiful retro gaming setups we all drool over with like 20 consoles, 2 flatscreens, and a couple CRT's, spotlight/backlit LED lighting and all the cool shit like that...that this would have been thought out a little better because I don't know about you but I always cringe when I see the OSSC or FM with wires sticking out all sides looking like shit and out of place lol.

Anyway, /end rant. Think I probably mentioned this before but I'm likewise always looking for a cable management solution to these but I think it's near impossible (and/or would take a LOT of effort just to hide these boxes and still be able to fully use them).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:05 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 433
Dochartaigh wrote:
Seraphic wrote:
As for as cable management goes, would this adapter cable work with the OSSC along with an approved power supply?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/361212281106


Can't answer that question, but I like your thinking. I'm having the same problem with cable management on mine. Think I did the same on the audio cable with a 90º to bring it to the back.


The OSSC Wiki says the tip must be 2.1 x 5.5mm and centre positive. That adapter cable matches the size, not sure about the "centre positive" part though.

I also just ordered one of these to clean up the HDMI output: https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id= ... 1&format=2


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