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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:39 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
VGA is better yes, but proper VGA>anything conversion can be a bitch (you need the right transcoder/converter and additional power slot).


Maybe a block of screw terminals (similar to sync strike) but able to facilitate RGBHV L/R or alternatively YPbPr L/R via dip switch to keep everyone happy? I'm just spit-balling here--no idea if that's even possible. Pretty easy to strip which ever cable you need and use the screw terminals. Hell--I've done it.

Super stoked either way. Will likely buy both a digital and analog version--just 'cause.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:12 am 


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HDgaming42 wrote:
marqs wrote:
Wouldn't VGA be a better choice for an analog output?


I think it would. Why compromise quality at this stage of the game? Although VGA input is getting rarer, it is far more likely your TV will mangle a VGA input less than a component one.


I would have thought the opposite was true, as seen with the XRGB3 VGA will usually be forced to 640x480, whereas component can be properly processed as 720x480.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:36 am 


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Maybe stoop question but; won't the DIY scaler be able to scale to and output both 640x480 and 720x480 through 'VGA' if needed ?

Anyway, even if it could the lack of 'VGA' inputs on modern TV's will remain a major annoyance.
Component may be a little behind RGB in terms of colors and clarity, but a little color correction and additional sharpness from the TV's settings and it's pretty close IMHO.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:34 pm 


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Well, even if it could, if you feed 720x480 to a lot of HDTVs through VGA they process it as 640x480 anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:38 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Well, even if it could, if you feed 720x480 to a lot of HDTVs through VGA they process it as 640x480 anyway.

It'd be possible to output 720x480 through VGA, but yeah, that wouldn't be a good idea unless feeding it to a CRT. There's no reliable way to recognize whether an analog 480p signal is 640x480 or 720x480, so a digital display samples it based on defined standards (640x480 for VGA, 720x480 for component/SCART).


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:49 pm 


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Well I meant for 640x480 anyway, as in giving the TV/monitor the signal it expects so it doesn't downscale anything by itself.
What I had in mind was like e.g. DVDO machines that can process the image and output at 480p or VGA by selection without any issues, this way you're never in a situation of sampling/detection error whatever your display.

I'm still feeling component would be good for ease of connectivity/compatibility, plus IIRC Fudoh mentioned simple and cheap component>HDMI A/D converters exist and work very well.
(VS. VGA>anything transcoders and converters that aren't all easy to source or use)
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:27 pm 


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I agree about component for 640x480 being good, particularly in the states - I think that at the moment component connections are still standard on many HDTVs while VGA is more or less totally phased out.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:02 am 



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im in the US
from what ive seen HDMI and Component are on most sets these days
VGA is only on some as its been replaced by HDMI for most monitors
the reason i said component is it shares the same sync rates as HDMI but doesnt have the licensing issues mentioned in an earlier post


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:50 pm 


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I would guess the finished version will need to use DVI + Analogue audio output anyway to get around the HDMI licensing problem. Converting DVI to HDMI costs pennies/cents, unless you need audio through HDMI too then it's a little more expensive.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:53 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
a little more expensive.

Much more, AFAIK about 60€~80€ where I live. Plus those converter+combiner boxes require power.
It's better not to bother and use an external amp or active speakers instead.

This is why I'm more interested in a component version of the DIY scaler; because it will work standalone with my TV.

On a side note I don't remember if pc monitors with both HDMI and audio inputs let you select the audio independently, unlike TV's I mean.
Because if I got the component version and wanted to use it on a pc monitor through a component>hdmi converter, I don't know what would become of the audio then ?
That would be the same problem as with the DVI version on a TV, only with different connectivity.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:36 pm 


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Quote:
Much more, AFAIK about 60€~80€ where I live. Plus those converter+combiner boxes require power.
It's better not to bother and use an external amp or active speakers instead.


Requires power? There's a solution to that you know...

Image

Quote:
On a side note I don't remember if pc monitors with both HDMI and audio inputs let you select the audio independently, unlike TV's I mean.


Some do some don't.

It's much better to start with the highest quality signal (digital) and convert down, than go the other way. Still, if marqs wants to offer an analogue version that's cool, but I think the focus should be on getting the digital one done first rather than arguing about what connectors should be used in an analogue version.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:19 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Requires power? There's a solution to that you know...

It's not a real issue right that wasn't the focus anyway, it's just that it's adding to the bulk, when you got tons of devices already it's just slightly annoying.

BuckoA51 wrote:
It's much better to start with the highest quality signal (digital) and convert down, than go the other way.

I agree with that on a purely technical perspective of course, as I mentioned there's always external amp/speakers for a solution.
The analogue component version (maybe later produced yeah why not who's in a hurry?) still would be nice, very nice for ease of use and the wallet, that's all I'm saying. :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:36 am 



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most PC monitors use a 3.5mm jack for sound anyway and have input selections
a DVI-D to HDMI adapter is a direct passthrough connector so that is cheap, but doesnt include sound
as the scaling would be done digitally it should be possible to have a board that has a footprint for DVI-D and component connectors on it
or even just a pin header that covers both (my preference)
having a DVI to component chip after the scalier

now HDMI only supports a few bit rates, where as DVI supports almost any so it would need to be confined to the HDMI standard formats to allow such an output connector swap


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:09 am 


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Interesting discussion and some good thoughts. I'm somewhat surprised that so many would like to also have analog outputs for digital displays, although I understand the reasons. As thesteve mentioned, a generic pinheader/connector would probably be the best solution, so there could be separate daughterboards for HDMI, DVI, VGA and component transmitter ICs and output connectors.

The first version will still have a single digital output (DVI/HDMI) and possibly no audio to keep things simple and get it out as soon as possible, but eventually that kind of customizable board would be great for everybody.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:13 am 


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I agree. And people, don't forget, excellent HDMI/DVI to VGA and/or component converters are dirt cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:20 am 



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DVI/HDMI should be the same chip and could be integrated into the CPLD (signal interchangable)
then you would just need a DVI to component chip for the anolog outputs


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:27 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
I agree. And people, don't forget, excellent HDMI/DVI to VGA and/or component converters are dirt cheap.

Is the latter required to be active as well ? or do these DVI/HDMI>component cables we find everywhere work fine by themselves ?
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:31 am 


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active. Those cables don't work at all unless used on certain HDMI ports that accept analogue component through adapter cables (as seen on a few projectors).


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:57 am 


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Mmh... so that's again another device to buy (what I'm finding is about 40€) add to the chain and power, hoping it's good quality.

I'm all for the pinheader + dautherboards thing then, with hopefully the daughterboards powered from the mobo of course. ^^
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:49 am 



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i have a VGA to HDMI and HDMI to VGA
the VGA to HDMI requires power, but the HDMI to VGA gets its power from the HDMI plug
both are active transcoders


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:12 pm 


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I hooked up the board to Micomsoft SC-512N1 capture card and they seem to mostly work OK together: 240p<->480i switches do not cause severe blanks/artifacts and the custom 720p modes are accepted. For some reason though, the captured video is always 58FPS, resulting into a few dropped frames etc. but I haven't gone though all the capture options (and there's probably no English manual...). I uploaded a few test clips here.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:29 pm 


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Lovely. These look very nice. Keep up the great work!


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:54 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Lovely. These look very nice. Keep up the great work!


What he said. Really exciting stuff.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:00 pm 


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Looks beautiful :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:18 am 


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I love how there's no flickering in the dark colors in Metal Gear, unlike the Framemeister :) This is looking extremely promising :)


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:43 am 


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marqs wrote:
I hooked up the board to Micomsoft SC-512N1 capture card and they seem to mostly work OK together: For some reason though, the captured video is always 58FPS, resulting into a few dropped frames etc.


Are you using Amarec? If your Windows is set to display numbers like this "123.456,789" the version of Amarec on the English website will mess up the framerate. You could try the current version (top link on this page) or change your number format in the language options of Windows to "123,456.789".

I'm really looking forward to this device. Hopefully it can replace my Framemeister :D


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:55 am 


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blizzz wrote:
marqs wrote:
I hooked up the board to Micomsoft SC-512N1 capture card and they seem to mostly work OK together: For some reason though, the captured video is always 58FPS, resulting into a few dropped frames etc.


Are you using Amarec? If your Windows is set to display numbers like this "123.456,789" the version of Amarec on the English website will mess up the framerate. You could try the current version (top link on this page) or change your number format in the language options of Windows to "123,456.789".

I'm really looking forward to this device. Hopefully it can replace my Framemeister :D

Yes, I'm using Amarec v2.31. I noticed that setting the FPS target manually to 60 (instead of the default 59,94 in the list) also fixed the issue. That's probably related to the number format issue, so I'll try "123,456.789" or the new version. Thanks for the tip!


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:55 am 



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looks great


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:08 am 



Joined: 18 Jul 2014
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i'm so very pleased about that people are still working on these things in these days

thank you very much sir, can't wait to order mine :arrow: :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:06 pm 



Joined: 14 Jul 2015
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Registered just so i could be updated on this. Can't wait!


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