OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

For future reference - Those cheap HDMI TOSLINK extractor boxes along with the cheap TOSLINK input audio interfaces don't work together. Both myself and FBX have tested and seem to get the same results.

Prevailing theory is that the output from the extractor box is absolutely fine, but has the copy protection bit set. The cheap audio interfaces based on CM6206 properly implement the SCMS copy protection standard, so when you try to capture the audio you just end up with silence.
The VP50Pro SPDIF output also seems to have that bit set if using HDMI audio input or the SPDIF input from the extractor box, but doesn't have it set when using an analogue stereo input.

I've tried 4 different extractor boxes, all are the same. (Different hardware, not just different brands of the same generic chinese thing).
Current idea is to get a cheap ADC stereo to TOSLINK, and hope that works.

FBX also said that his HT Omega Striker was able to capture the TOSLINK signals, so my assumption is that for whatever reason it ignores the copy protection bit.

It's definitely nothing to do with the OSSC's output though, I'm now fairly sure of that.
Seraphic
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Seraphic »

I have my OSSC plugged into a Crystalio II, but is there anything different between firmware v0.79/v0.80 and v0.81 firmware that would conflict with 1080i signal output from a PlayStation 2 over RGBScart? I forget if I was on .79 or .80 when this WAS working, but after I updated to .81 I get an error message from the game. It is longer then this just "D端子 D3" since it is a Japanese game, but I would guess it is basically saying D-Terminal D3 (1080i) required. I can confirm and it will processed past the message to load the game, but something is definitely not working properly as the picture is way off center, blurry and stutters. Before it would just boot into 1080i mode without this message (this game supports 480i/480p/1080i display). Any thoughts?
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Fudoh
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Fudoh »

There's no way a PS2 can tell what's happening on the other side of the cable.

You probably had your PS2 set to component before, but now to RGB. Set it to component, leave the RGB cable in place and just set the OSSC's input to YUV as well.
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marqs
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by marqs »

Unseen wrote:
marqs wrote:The deployment of new soft-CPU has gone forwards a bit, but there's still lots of things to do before it's fully integrated.
Which CPU core are you switching to?
zero-riscy RISC-V core. I've made a Qsys component out of it which helped integrating it into the system. Running code interactively and debugging via JTAG is where I'm currently. I had a choice of using either adv_dbg_if (from Pulpino project as well) thru Altera virtual JTAG or Altera JTAG to Avalon Master Bridge to access bus peripherals, memory and CPU debug interface via shared JTAG connector. I chose the latter as it seemed easier to integrate from hardware perspective but getting SW deployment working through that needs some work.
paulb_nl wrote:I think I have the same issue with my Sony LCD TV. It always triggers the sensor like you described. I can get it to work by almost completely covering up the sensor.
Could it be that enough light escapes thru the panel when viewed from extreme viewing angles, and covering sides of the sensor blocks this indirect light to the phototransistor?
hilaryyy wrote:Wild to see the history of this device here.

It's such a powerful thing and has changed so much for the CPS2 fighting game scenes, and really helped us engage new people and make tons of friendships and competitions happen.

Thank you. <3
That's great to hear :). I take you've noticed the dedicated CPS2 digital AV interface of which hardware is now near-final?
EthicalShooter wrote:Yeah, I explained that. What I was getting at was that internal post-line multiplication scaling would dramatically improve compatibility for like scaling 960p to 1080p (or even 4k). Obviously it'd be optional, but I'm wondering if marqs could implement that with a more powerful FPGA.
The CPS2 project has output line count decouped from input which greatly improves compatibility while still maintaining framelock. That's fairly easy to implement for a single fixed source with a programmable clock generator and some additional line buffers.
Seraphic
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Seraphic »

Fudoh wrote:There's no way a PS2 can tell what's happening on the other side of the cable.

You probably had your PS2 set to component before, but now to RGB. Set it to component, leave the RGB cable in place and just set the OSSC's input to YUV as well.
My PS2 is set for RGB for Video out in the configuration as my system was modded for pure CSYNC (RGBS all the time for every resolution). component, composite and S-video are disabled.
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

Quick question about 240p Line 2x 720x480p output;

How is the sample rate of 858 derived?
Based on some tests I've done, for correct 4:3 aspect display when corrected to 640x480, the sample rate needs to be ~878.

Line 4x 4:3 mode has a correct aspect with no correction when testing the SNES grid, assuming properly corrected horizontal outputs of 293/585/878/1170 depending on the scaling. The samplerate of this mode is 1560, with a 1280x960 output. This obviously scales from 640x480.

This means that for a VGA 640x480 output, it can be assumed that a samplerate of 780 with a 640 active area should give a correct aspect output without correction - and it does. I get a 585x448 grid which is perfect based on the aspect calculation of [(256*(8/7))*2].

However, when using the samplerate of 858 with a 720 active area, when aspect corrected to 640x480 the grid gives me an output of 574x448. This is obviously slightly too narrow.
Considering the 780 samplerate from the other test and knowing it has a correct aspect, we can assume that a sample rate of ~878 would result in the correct aspect when this is corrected to 640x480. After testing this out, this seems to be the case and the grid is properly 585x448 when the sample rate is set to 878.


So back to my original question - why is the default sample rate for 720x480 858?
It doesn't seem to give the mathematically correct aspect when scaled, and isn't consistent with the scaling of the other modes.
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James-F
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by James-F »

It's the standard for 480i/p content which should make the OSSC in 2x compatible with most TVs.
It was not chosen for its aspect ratio, but compatibility.

https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Modeline_Database
Search there for 858.
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

James-F wrote:It's the standard for 480i/p content which should make the OSSC in 2x compatible with most TVs.
It was not chosen for its aspect ratio, but compatibility.

https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Modeline_Database
Search there for 858.
Aaaaah, that makes a lot more sense, thanks!
So my maths and assumptions are correct in terms of correct aspect output then?
MidOrFeed2015
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by MidOrFeed2015 »

nmalinoski wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:Are there prospects for a Line3x for 480p? (1920x1440 I assume?).
480p is 720x480, so 3x would be 2160x1440; and, to my knowledge, the max resolution the OSSC is capable of handling at this point in time is 1920x1200.
Does that mean that OSSC could line triple 480p if it was able to handle a max resolution at or higher than 2160x1440? Maybe when the OSSC 4K edition comes out? :D
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Thomago
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Thomago »

Tried Game Boy Interface's High Fidelity OSSC version yesterday. While picture quality is stellar, there was noticable stutter every now and then.
Is the High Fidelity OSSC version still unable to match the Game Boy Advance's refresh rate?
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

Thomago wrote:Tried Game Boy Interface's High Fidelity OSSC version yesterday. While picture quality is stellar, there was noticable stutter every now and then.
Is the High Fidelity OSSC version still unable to match the Game Boy Advance's refresh rate?
Have you tried FBX's configuration?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUMkIqeg8fI
thebigcheese
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by thebigcheese »

Apologies if this has been asked before, but how does the OSSC work with Dolby Pro Logic audio? GameCube, PS2, original Xbox, and even the N64 support this for surround sound, but I am uncertain how the digitization process would affect the signal. I have the GameCube and N64 hooked up via the SCART connector and the other two via the component connectors, though I can't imagine that making a difference. Would be nice to get surround sound from these consoles where it applies, even if it is early/crappy surround sound, but not really that big of a deal if it doesn't work.
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

Don't trust me 100%, but I believe pro logic is just processing applied to a stereo signal before it's sent via the analogue out. Digitization shouldn't affect it even slightly.
thebigcheese
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by thebigcheese »

Jademalo wrote:Don't trust me 100%, but I believe pro logic is just processing applied to a stereo signal before it's sent via the analogue out. Digitization shouldn't affect it even slightly.
It is, so in theory it should pass through fine. But I'm not sure how it gets interpreted by the OSSC/TV/receiver when all that happens. In my case, it goes from the OSSC to the TV and then through the TV's audio return channel to the receiver. I don't think it worked correctly when I had a Framemeister, so I'm just curious.
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airco
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by airco »

Has anyone had handshake issues using the OSSC? I've gotten issues where video on my monitor would frequently cut in and out after changing line multiplication modes on my PS2 and Saturn after an extended period of play. My current chain is: OSSC 1.5 w/audio > DVI to HDMI cable > Monitor (BenQ RL2460H) > Monitor's HDMI out to cheap HDMI extractor (ViewHD) > Avermedia LGP. I suspect it's the audio extractor since it doesn't seem capable of completing a handshake without something connected to the HDMI out, and I know the LGP doesn't accept OSSC output over 480p to begin with. Should I upgrade one of these, both of these, or could the issue be something else entirely?

EDIT: this took a while to get approved, so I already jumped the gun and bought replacements for the audio breakout (KanexPro) and capture card (Datapath E1S). We'll see how that goes. :V
Last edited by airco on Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
CobraKing
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by CobraKing »

thebigcheese wrote:
Jademalo wrote:Don't trust me 100%, but I believe pro logic is just processing applied to a stereo signal before it's sent via the analogue out. Digitization shouldn't affect it even slightly.
It is, so in theory it should pass through fine. But I'm not sure how it gets interpreted by the OSSC/TV/receiver when all that happens. In my case, it goes from the OSSC to the TV and then through the TV's audio return channel to the receiver. I don't think it worked correctly when I had a Framemeister, so I'm just curious.
I would connect the audio portion of those consoles directly to the receiver. With GameCube I believe it was the stereo RCA plugs, did PS2 & XBox have optical out though?
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Extrems
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Extrems »

Thomago wrote:Tried Game Boy Interface's High Fidelity OSSC version yesterday. While picture quality is stellar, there was noticable stutter every now and then.
Is the High Fidelity OSSC version still unable to match the Game Boy Advance's refresh rate?
HD60 is 60.00 Hz. You're further away than ever before.

You can fix this by using the standard edition.
thebigcheese
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by thebigcheese »

CobraKing wrote:
thebigcheese wrote:
Jademalo wrote:Don't trust me 100%, but I believe pro logic is just processing applied to a stereo signal before it's sent via the analogue out. Digitization shouldn't affect it even slightly.
It is, so in theory it should pass through fine. But I'm not sure how it gets interpreted by the OSSC/TV/receiver when all that happens. In my case, it goes from the OSSC to the TV and then through the TV's audio return channel to the receiver. I don't think it worked correctly when I had a Framemeister, so I'm just curious.
I would connect the audio portion of those consoles directly to the receiver. With GameCube I believe it was the stereo RCA plugs, did PS2 & XBox have optical out though?
They do. That would be the ideal setup, but there's really no good way to make it work. I could, if my TV has an optical in, connect both consoles to an optical switcher that connects to the TV so the TV can run that audio down the audio return channel to the receiver, but that would also require me to change the input settings of the TV whenever I switch from one type of console (ones with optical audio) to others (ones with stereo). Then, for GameCube and N64, I'd have to connect those directly to the receiver (in the case of GameCube, this would require an audio breakout adapter since it connects via SCART right now) and change the input on the receiver whenever I want to use those.

Versus now where I just turn the TV to the input that has the OSSC and don't touch the receiver or any settings or switch any switchers at all. So yes, in some cases it is technically possible to use the direct audio, but it's a huge hassle and not what I would like to do. And all of that is beside the point anyway, since it doesn't answer the question of whether or not it would work.
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bobrocks95
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by bobrocks95 »

I'd love to be wrong about this, but I don't believe Pro Logic or Pro Logic II sends any sort of info flag to the receiver- it will just be detected as normal stereo. On my receiver, I essentially guess if a game has PL support (lots of Gamecube games seem to support it while avoiding Dolby licensing fees) by listening to how well the panning effect sounds.

So in other words, digitizing the signal with the OSSC and using your TV's ARC shouldn't affect anything. Unless I'm wrong and some high-end receivers can detect PL signals (which would be wonderful).
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Thomago
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Thomago »

Extrems wrote:HD60 is 60.00 Hz. You're further away than ever before.

You can fix this by using the standard edition.
I understand. Thank you!
nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

CobraKing wrote:I would connect the audio portion of those consoles directly to the receiver. With GameCube I believe it was the stereo RCA plugs, did PS2 & XBox have optical out though?
The PS2, PS3, first-gen PS4, PS4 Pro, Xbox (needs one of the AV pack breakouts, a special video cable, or one of those neat digital audio shims that are only sold on eBay in Europe that I can't seem to find right now), Xbox 360 (needs audio dongle or component cable), and Xbox One (including S and X) all have TOSLINK audio output, but it's only the PS2 and original Xbox where it's the best-quality output.

And, speaking of the GameCube, this makes me wonder how that surround sound is fed to the Digital AV port, such as when using GCVideo mods or plug'n'play modules. According to gamesx, the digital AV port has lines for digital audio; is that just digital ProLogic-encoded audio, or is it discrete surround, ready for TOSLINK? And if it gets ProLogic-encoded audio, does it make sense to leave it encoded, or would it make sense to have GCVideo decode it into discrete surround? (Or am I misunderstanding ProLogic here?)

And then, speaking of GCVideo, since we now have a relatively-accessible supply of connectors for the digital AV port, it seems like it should be pretty straightforward to produce a TOSLINK module that just pops into the digital AV port and provides TOSLINK (and maybe coax) for those who want digital audio, but don't want to shell out for one of the plug'n'play HDMI modules, for those who want TOSLINK audio instead of HDMI, or for those who have a GCDual board with an intact digital AV port and want TOSLINK audio.
thebigcheese wrote:They do. That would be the ideal setup, but there's really no good way to make it work. I could, if my TV has an optical in, connect both consoles to an optical switcher that connects to the TV so the TV can run that audio down the audio return channel to the receiver, but that would also require me to change the input settings of the TV whenever I switch from one type of console (ones with optical audio) to others (ones with stereo). Then, for GameCube and N64, I'd have to connect those directly to the receiver (in the case of GameCube, this would require an audio breakout adapter since it connects via SCART right now) and change the input on the receiver whenever I want to use those.
Yes, it's a pain. Some of that input switching can be mitigated with HDMI-CEC, assuming your TV and home theater receiver support it (and I would expect them to if they support ARC).

TOSLINK inputs on TVs are already quite rare, and they'll likely be eliminated altogether in the next couple years, which means your best bet is to run the TOSLINK directly into your receiver, especially since the OSSC doesn't accept TOSLINK directly; but there lies another problem: the OSSC always includes audio on the outgoing HDMI signal, even when there's no audio connected or zero volume. If your receiver is like mine, any kind of audio signal on the HDMI, even if silent, means that the receiver won't fall back on digital or analog audio inputs. The workaround is to change TX Mode on the OSSC from HDMI to DVI, which disables the audio bundling and allows the receiver to fall back on optical audio, but it's always a pain to have to recreate that extra profile and switch to it when you want to use a console with optical audio.

I still think it would be so nice if the OSSC was expanded to include and switch digital audio inputs, and then fall back on analog audio when digital audio isn't being used; and perhaps this functionality could be put onto a mod board for older-revision OSSCs, a la the audio mod for 1.5 OSSCs.
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bobrocks95
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by bobrocks95 »

So with Variable Refresh Rate televisions now out, has anyone already discussed what it would require for VRR support on the OSSC?

Given that the Xbox One X received a firmware update supporting VRR, I don't know if it would be as simple as setting a flag in the HDMI infoframe, or if it's related to something that was built into the hardware well in advance given it's got an AMD APU.

I guess someone would have to analyze the HDMI signal from an Xbox One X with VRR set on and off to get an idea of what's going on? I'm sure thinking it's as simple as changing the infoframe is wishful naivety...
nmalinoski wrote:And, speaking of the GameCube, this makes me wonder how that surround sound is fed to the Digital AV port, such as when using GCVideo mods or plug'n'play modules. According to gamesx, the digital AV port has lines for digital audio; is that just digital ProLogic-encoded audio, or is it discrete surround, ready for TOSLINK? And if it gets ProLogic-encoded audio, does it make sense to leave it encoded, or would it make sense to have GCVideo decode it into discrete surround? (Or am I misunderstanding ProLogic here?)
It's Pro Logic matrixed (if the game even supports it) stereo sound; the original Xbox was the first console that had enough power to encode Dolby Digital in real-time, which is a lossy and non-trivial compression algorithm. PS2 supported it for cutscenes only, as again it has processing overhead that deterred real-time use.

It doesn't make sense for GCVideo to decode Pro Logic signals because an AV receiver designed to do just that will outperform it- it's completely unnecessary processing to have GCVideo do it, if even possible from a logistics standpoint (would you recompress it as Dolby Digital, which a receiver will then have to decompress, adding unnecessary lag? Convert the signal into PCM and restrict it to HDMI output only?).

Also as I said earlier, I don't think Pro Logic sends any flags indicating that a stereo signal contains it. You'd have to be able to turn the decoding on and off or you're going to have GCVideo attempting to de-matrix a standard stereo signal into 5 channels, which may sound awful.
Last edited by bobrocks95 on Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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thebigcheese
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by thebigcheese »

bobrocks95 wrote:Also as I said earlier, I don't think Pro Logic sends any flags indicating that a stereo signal contains it. You'd have to be able to turn the decoding on and off or you're going to have GCVideo attempting to de-matrix a standard stereo signal into 5 channels, which may sound awful.
So I think I just need to tell my receiver that it's Dolby Pro Logic II when using those sources and see what happens. If it lets me choose that. Annoying, but maybe less so than the more convoluted routes.
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by bobrocks95 »

thebigcheese wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:Also as I said earlier, I don't think Pro Logic sends any flags indicating that a stereo signal contains it. You'd have to be able to turn the decoding on and off or you're going to have GCVideo attempting to de-matrix a standard stereo signal into 5 channels, which may sound awful.
So I think I just need to tell my receiver that it's Dolby Pro Logic II when using those sources and see what happens. If it lets me choose that. Annoying, but maybe less so than the more convoluted routes.
That's what I have to do with a straight connection to the receiver. I believe for Pro Logic any AV receiver will always just see it as stereo sound. Again, I'd love to be wrong on that though.
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nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

bobrocks95 wrote:So with Variable Refresh Rate televisions now out, has anyone already discussed what it would require for VRR support on the OSSC?
Pardon my ignorance, but what would VRR support on the OSSC accomplish? Will it enhance/enable compatibility with some of the more off-spec sync signals?
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Fudoh
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Fudoh »

The OSSC already outputs a signal that's framelocked to the input. From that point onwards compatibility is up to the display. If the signal was flagged VRR and the display supports it, then compatibility issues with more off-spec signals could be resolved. But to a TV that already supports all your sources through an OSSC, there's no advantage.
CobraKing
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by CobraKing »

thebigcheese wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:Also as I said earlier, I don't think Pro Logic sends any flags indicating that a stereo signal contains it. You'd have to be able to turn the decoding on and off or you're going to have GCVideo attempting to de-matrix a standard stereo signal into 5 channels, which may sound awful.
So I think I just need to tell my receiver that it's Dolby Pro Logic II when using those sources and see what happens. If it lets me choose that. Annoying, but maybe less so than the more convoluted routes.
I think it's what @bobrocks95 said and you have to choose a Dolby Pro Logic II setting or similar. It's been several years for me but I remember having to do that for my GameCube games.
paulb_nl
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by paulb_nl »

marqs wrote:Could it be that enough light escapes thru the panel when viewed from extreme viewing angles, and covering sides of the sensor blocks this indirect light to the phototransistor?
Well I have put the sensor inside a small led holder and only the top is exposed so there is no light going to the side of the sensor. It would only work properly if I mostly cover up the front too and move it further from the display.

Because you said it might be small light glitches I did some testing and modified the latency tester to only register the light detection after a certain number of equal sensor readings. But even setting the number to 27000 it still triggers the detection on black parts of the display.

It would seem that with this TV the backlight is too strong or something? I even tried setting the backlight to the lowest setting but that did not help.

I did find that if I hold the sensor in the far most corner of the screen it works normally. A few cm away from the corner and it stops working.
Thomago wrote:Tried Game Boy Interface's High Fidelity OSSC version yesterday. While picture quality is stellar, there was noticable stutter every now and then.
Is the High Fidelity OSSC version still unable to match the Game Boy Advance's refresh rate?
The current High Fidelity OSSC version outputs 360p. You can set the format to 'custom' for 59.72Hz but then you cannot get 360p. The included XRGB version is set to output 240p59.73Hz with the 'custom-m' format.
MidOrFeed2015
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by MidOrFeed2015 »

So anyone else has tested the high fidelity ossc dol + cli? To me it is not impressive at all. there are blinking pixels on characters that are as clear as day.
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

MidOrFeed2015 wrote:So anyone else has tested the high fidelity ossc dol + cli? To me it is not impressive at all. there are blinking pixels on characters that are as clear as day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUMkIqeg8fI
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